On April 20, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Clifford M. Hardin, Gen. George A. Lincoln, Peter M. Flanigan, White House photographer, White House operator, John B. Connally, James D. ("Don") Hughes, George H. Mahon, and Clark MacGregor met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:35 pm to 4:10 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 483-017 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Is that where it's supposed to be?
Yes.
Is that where it is?
Yes.
And we've got the power to support the pipes, the wiring, and we've got the power to control the hall, and we've got the belt, the strut, all those things.
Hey, where's Sarah in the closet?
Did you get her in?
She's not here this afternoon, sir.
You tell her that I asked where she was, okay?
Because it might happen to be right down my throat if you don't tell her.
Bill her in.
Bill her in.
The, uh, main thing I wanted there, particularly out this side, is...
But the most important thing we have to do is not to do a good job.
We've got to seem like we're doing a good job.
as legal as you can.
That's my feeling about it.
Having said that, I don't know what you all have said, whether people really are showing this.
It's really the concern they need.
They're all out there bitching and raising hell because they aren't getting enough rain and so forth.
But the most important thing to remember, it's not economic.
And they know they're going to have to sell a few cows off and they're going to be unhappy.
But let's not have an issue where they say, well, we didn't get them a hay or something.
Or that we didn't care.
It's a political issue, I can assure you.
Not an economic issue.
Fortunately, we've got a new farm.
Yeah, but when does that come in?
This year, about that.
No, but it's all right.
At least it's hopeful.
For the next time around.
But you are buying hay now around the country.
You're bringing it in.
It's okay.
It's only token hay.
It's going to be token because there isn't any hay in the country.
Why in the hell isn't there hay in the country?
I don't understand.
We have authority to make great and best of all of these counties regarding this.
I guess there are a couple of some.
Let me move to the seat once for a while.
I'll look out.
Well, I think it's as available as you can, as generous as you can.
And if you're down there, you can say how the president indicated to do everything the law allows and everything we possibly can.
And we just happen to be in danger here.
This is our enemy.
We don't have any hay and so forth.
Well, let me point you to another report I'll give you.
Because the law does technically allow it.
Now, under the Farm Act, we have set aside, required the set aside of 20% of their crop acres this year.
Sign up has already been taken place.
We have authority, if we need more set aside, to go up to 50% of their crop acres.
We can pay money for that, that's so much per acre.
a fairly stiff rate.
They would like, the people of Oklahoma are asking, that this land is already bare and is not going to grow a crop, that we declare that we need a national set-aside and qualify it.
I thought it was a very dangerous precedent.
Yeah, they tried to do that.
I think we heard it down last year in South Dakota, and I think it was out.
Because, and, uh, I don't think we would dare do it without specific action of the Congress, is my judgment.
Legally, I cannot say that.
But, uh, I think I just have to make a firm position.
That, uh, we could not do this without the air slash.
The province president is telling the agriculture department to buy crops that don't exist and aren't going to exist.
Uh, now, what's the cost?
Uh, what's the cost of that?
You can always take your incidents one shot until you get one damp on the president.
We want to understand, Cliff, this is a very important political alliance.
It is ricocheting all over Texas.
I can't give it away.
Figure out that in mind, you should buy a $30 acre.
I think that's it.
Couldn't you buy it, Cliff?
They can't all be just bare.
I mean, you don't have to go from 20 to 50.
You could go from 20 to 30 and find some land where it's looking a little sick.
Very sick.
It would still be, I think, unethical.
But we probably could get a resolution out of Congress, if you want.
But, uh, would you like to have a figure on how much it would cost?
I have a computer.
But, uh, it would be impossible money.
How many millions?
Now, the one thing that's quite awesome to do, attorney, while we're involved in this, is we have emergency credit.
And this has been declared.
Some of this has been done already.
Oh, yes.
The SDAE.
Let me just finish, David.
I'm mad at you, but we've got a problem.
We're out of money in departmental administration at the worst part of the season for operating loans.
We're at receiving, I've asked about $10 million that they can't release legally.
Beyond that, we have to have congressional action.
We're up to our authority.
Goddamn, get it.
And, uh... Let's get it.
No, I don't have any.
I owe you a bill that'll give me an answer back on the 10 million.
I need that before I go tomorrow, really.
Yes, sir.
You've got... You've got a million.
I've got the 10 million dollars right now.
Is that all they've got?
Is there anything else that you can get?
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
No, President, he felt that he would not just say no, but he felt we could go as far as we legally and properly can, and I described the actions being taken by Secretary Hardin and General Lincoln, and he's satisfied.
At the moment, he says if it gets worse, we've got to do more.
You talked to Tower more recently than I did, General.
He's going with them tomorrow, and he apparently seems to think this is... Smith?
Smith?
Now, we're giving them everything they need to get under a disaster declaration, except two things.
On the point of compensation, we would be unable to distinguish between the people who are really unemployed because of the droughts and just plain unemployed, and we would be buying all these migrant workers in South Texas
estimated cost, estimated cost 65 million to start with.
We would also be buying forgiveness on the front end of loans, $2,500.
And say our assessment on that is 75 million for openers.
And it really,
It's not, doesn't substantively assault the problem of these ranchers and farmers.
What are you gonna do then when you're there?
Just, just smile at them.
I'll find a way to use these programs and go out and dig a little in the fields and try to get a little wise.
Oh, God.
Consultant, the farmer has to raise it for us.
We're getting a committee of farmers in each spot.
I told them that I wanted to talk to farmers, not just...
They've got a little rain in their house, and they're very high.
Our position has to be really to keep on watching that if the rains come, the problem is not going to disappear completely, but it's going to be helped.
If the rains don't come, it's going to be an increasingly difficult situation, and maybe it will be a disaster by fall.
But anything we do, we're stuck with for the next three or four months.
And I think we're going to pace ourselves a little bit here and not do it all at once.
Now, I would think it would be, even if we're going to declare a disaster, I think we ought to see the area before we did.
But we'll see the problem.
I think you ought to talk to him.
Oh, you're here.
Yes.
Let me suggest this.
It's like a comic place.
It's good that you will have gone a little bit slower, because he's down there, he's dead down there, and I believe an additional problem is that this is a heavy rain in the center of Texas.
But you see, it plays out for Oklahoma, and mostly in South Texas.
I'm sitting here talking with Cliff Hartley and Dave Lincoln about the Texas trip.
They're going to leave tomorrow.
Pete Bunning is with them.
I think it would be a good thing if they just did a great job and they finished it in three minutes.
And they'll check in with you and show you, you know, they've got the maps and the places they're going to go and the things they're going to do and so forth.
And I just told them, we just released 10 minutes of the budget from somewhere under OMB.
Would you do that?
Because Cliff said he talked to you last week, but I don't know if he talked to you.
He said he had to talk to you.
I think it's good you're not going.
I think for you to get a look otherwise, you know what I mean?
Yeah, that's right.
And so if you, could you see them when they come over to your shop?
Well, they'll talk us through it.
you can tell them that uh you can tell them uh
Congress to act on that, whatever it is that you want me to act on.
Now, I'll mention Mr. Connolly, too, because he's got to think about it.
All right.
How is this?
This is a piece I had put together.
They told you're not a package for you on a number of farm items to use in the next week or ten days.
Oh, yeah.
Which I think will accomplish a great deal for our country.
Here we go.
I'm sure the problem is taking it outside of the budget.
Well, this protocol, no.
This reduces the budget requirements because it reduces outlets.
We're no longer appropriating money now.
Well, there's guaranteed money.
Guaranteed money.
And we go on in our pocket and discount the paper.
And so it no longer is appropriated money.
Yes.
Five, do it.
Not the only way we can do something in Texas.
Let me suggest that you go over there.
Could you haul?
maybe even greater with you, so that he, when you go to see Conner, so that he could, so, I tell you what's good, when you're down there, you and they, so that you can talk to the authority, you can say, no, I was in talking.
The main thing is, let them feel that we're acting.
We care, right?
And you say, by golly, we're right on top of this thing.
I told the farm editor out here in Texas, and I said, look, I'm watching this myself.
I'm meeting with the secretary this afternoon.
I don't know anything about it, except that I do know that those people, I know farmers, they're always bitching.
But boy, when the weather's bad, they bitch worse.
Right?
I was one of them.
I was one of them.
is necessary to get the governor's list and your list together.
Now there's Oklahoma Gregory.
Oklahoma and the governor of Oklahoma will probably be at the air base.
Well, he's a very nice fellow.
He's a good man.
He beat our guy.
He's a great guy.
He's a very nice fellow.
Give him my best, particularly.
I remember he wrote a nice letter after the governor's thing.
Tell him we're concerned.
I've got to come down there for some dedication to some Arkansas river project.
That's in Oklahoma.
Oh, wait a minute.
That's Oklahoma.
No, I'm going to Oklahoma.
The governor of Oklahoma, he's talking about now.
He's a big, sort of raw bone farmer type.
But you're going to Tulsa, they've got to keep that water right, aren't you?
Yeah.
So he can tell the governor that we're interested in Oklahoma, too, but they're never going to remain interested in Texas.
Do a little bit of Oklahoma, if you have to, but Texas is our main concern.
Now, other than Spock over there, we may run into that wildlife attendant governor of Texas instead of Smith.
Oh, yeah, we are.
Well, you've got to have a tower with him.
Yes.
Good.
Always keep him next to you.
Keep Barnes and make Paul what you started hunting with.
He's not so wild.
He's just smart.
But so is Tar.
Tar is a smart fellow.
What about Price?
Are you going to take one of our planes?
Yes, sir.
And bear with me if you want.
Let me ask this, uh, uh, you know, why don't you take Price?
Price is a Republican.
I know where he is going.
May I know him?
No, he, uh, he couldn't go.
We asked the House of C. We asked Maynard.
We asked Polk.
Did you invite him at all?
Yeah.
Good.
Well, if you need more, we have a budget.
That's probably, uh, not a rule then, is it?
What is it?
It goes eight.
Well, there are eight.
I'm taking two of my men.
And one of them's out here.
It doesn't look as good when it lands on the airfield as they want to take a picture.
Yeah, uh, Hughes?
General Hughes?
I want you to go over with the secretary to, uh, if you can, for a moment, to the big picture.
That's his name.
I want you to see him.
I want you to see him.
You don't think, you don't think they ought to go with it?
I have to talk to this guy.
Are you talking to him?
Could you let him on a paper plane for this trip to Texas?
I can't have to ask three people to it.
Have you got one available?
He is the talking cat star in my office, but not me.
Yeah.
All right.
Are you going to take 970?
My point is that they will go to 970, huh?
Oh, my.
But that 970, which will look like Air Force One, right?
All right, take him to 970, and then I'll tell the Secretary of Defense what he wants.
Second, I would take with you, of course, your price.
Try to get the price.
Try to get Mayhawk.
You can get George.
Mayhawk.
George Mayhawk.
Mayhawk.
Get ahold of Ziegler and maybe, see who are, and you know who they are.
There was a guy from Texas, an agriculture press there.
Picked up three or four press men, just take them along.
All right, make it free.
Don't even, I mean, I'm not gonna take charge, but this is, you just invite them as your guest.
They're playing seat 60, and you've got, you know, a lot of Bernie Branders, too.
But take Sarah McLennan down with you.
I think you can work it out.
It's just a secret.
You've got to worry about the money.
Yes, sir.
Just say that you've got the money.
You happen to have the extra things.
And I think it's so complicated.
You've got to be able to get a hold of Sarah McLennan.
She always asks about that shirt, probably.
She always asks about Texas.
Oh, God, is she from Texas?
Yes.
And Clark, if you can think of Tom Steeke, you ought to go over there and call his office, all his Air Force bases.
Who else is, well, I'll tell you, if you get Steeke to call, I was in the Congress with him, and saw that the President has ordered his own plane, and those are down there, and that this is available, and that you might want to go over there, since he's very interested in this thing.
Steeke, who's the, who are the Senators you want to call?
There you go.
Bellman.
Bellman.
Harris is in Moscow.
Harris is in Moscow.
Can Bellman go?
Yes, Bellman can go.
Yes, Bellman can go.
It's true, he's not quite mentioned.
Right.
Well, uh... You know what?
John Tower is dead, and I don't have him.
Benson is an issue to state concern, bitterly critical of your alleged failure to properly act.
Benson is a taxi boy who claimed to attack John Tower.
Oh, on this thing?
On this thing.
It was in the Texas paper Sunday, and also Saturday, preliminary story Saturday, and the big story on Sunday.
I have the text of the... That's what I told you to make on her.
What about Angela?
Some politics.
John's, John's camera got a little lead on the fact that you were going to send a secretary to John O'Connor.
Oh.
Captain Arlene and he, uh, eventually didn't like that.
And that's the point.
He said, Captain Arlene, I don't think we've done.
At least.
Who?
Tower.
Tower.
But I, I, he started, I followed John.
I accused him of being so much cooler than Shamrock.
He told me the news right after that.
Who?
News who?
I accused John of it.
I couldn't reach him for about two hours, so I wanted to give him a little more.
Well, that's, well, that's, I'll show you the politics.
Be sure you play it right down the line.
Mr. President, we had only two, the last two stops in San Antonio and the other stop in Texas, some Amarillo, some very, you know, the last two stops, Amarillo was ahead of that, two very liberal Democrats in Congress.
We had to scratch house because the plane
Jeff Stark couldn't go in.
He couldn't?
Yes, he couldn't go in.
And the only other place was Hainesville, and I didn't think that we wanted to land on the King Ranch.
Hell no.
Well, the point is, you've got to make a plan.
There's Gonzales.
There's Gonzales.
There is now.
We fly down to the left southern area.
That's Kiki De La Garza's area.
You gave De La Garza a lot of publicity.
I'll let her go.
I've asked for a deal with Dr. Thomas Kelly.
Kiki's a pretty good cooperator.
Thank you.
Do we have a... Do we have a Mexican-American?
Do we have a Mexican-American?
He said that you should have acted immediately to declare the disaster area a disaster area.
This is just half part of the measures.
That will be possible for us to get tomorrow.
Yes.
So I'll be in.
Yes, it doesn't qualify at the present time.
We're giving all the assistance and the law soon.
Soon we'll come and maybe just ask for your declaration.
pop up the effort being made as a country for hay, and where there isn't hay, where they can bring, and talk about bringing it all the way from Montana.
I would think that you could make that quite a story.
What can you do with the disaster?
The disaster is the underlying thing, basically.
The two things, the disaster declaration of triggers that you are not doing,
or unemployment compensation at SBA groups and, you know, the SBA, you know, any economic injury loans on the basis of our covering of the agricultural declaration.
Forgiveness of the loan, $2,500 per loan, Mr. President, is the other thing.
All farm loans, operating loans, $2,500 forgiveness.
And even the housing loans, too.
I guess the third thing would be some food stamps.
Yes.
It triggers boot stamps.
It triggers boot stamps.
It has the effect to take over the parking lot in Texas.
I don't know if you would or not, if you could prove that he tried to get boot stamps to the ghettos once you get down there to Texas.
The complaints except for farms and ranches and it's kept beaten and the fact that they don't have their crops so they need money and the law will do them.
Do you have any indication on the plunder for hunger, I think?
The Department of Agriculture checked it out and said that there was a case on it.
There could be a case to be made on it.
Yeah, could make a case, I see.
But they said that we'd declare it.
We'd pick up the standard on it.
Well, I guess that's the way to do it.
You base right up to it and say, we are doing everything that a disaster declaration will allow.
We are not, if it reaches a proportion on the other parts of the other areas, we'll take another look, period.
That's what you have to say.
If anything goes on and on, you might have a disaster area.
Great.
Yes, we have to cut the money.
Of course, we do this.
We set the precedent for using the disaster program in case you have a dust bowl in hand.
And I don't know whether it was intended for that or not.
You're looking at $150 million in things.
New Mexico and Arizona are looking at this.
And there's an area in Southern California that thinks they're in the droughts.
Oh, I know.
And there's an area in Florida that thinks that's right.
It's just by a telephone arrangement with that Florida governor that, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
Hello, I'm George, how are you?
Hi, I don't know why I'm sitting here talking to Cliff Harden and Dave Layton.
They're going down tomorrow to your country, and they've got all the authority.
They're going to hold out with Dr. John Connery, you see, what person he has to report.
They told me they'd advise you you couldn't go.
I want you to know they're going to look at the thing.
There's anything that any of the law allows them to do,
You know, we could throw low again.
Yeah.
Yeah, we could throw low again.
Well, what we're not doing here, we cannot declare a disaster area.
Well, what will happen then, we'll have to declare Southern California.
to Arizona, and you see, and then you're triggering, of course, on insurance and a lot of other things that are very, very serious.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
Right.
Right.
But everybody remember, everything's part of a major disaster.
In other words, loans and grain and all that sort of thing, pay to the extent we can find it, or if you tell me in the country, though, I understand.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
All right.
They say, at the deli, they could stock block if you wanted to, but...
All right.
Well, anyway, I just want to know what you're thinking about doing.
All right.
Thank you.
Bye.
That's one of the few responsible guys.
He says don't fire at us out there.
and they have some more, and he goes on.
And it's not ready yet, he says, and they make it some more.
And he says, it's not that bad yet.
That's his trick.
He said, don't let my Texas friends stand beach.
And this is Bob Price's trick, you know.
Emeril has drives, and they'll always drive.
Take a long press, man.
Take a long message.
That's another nice thing to do.
I don't think my, let's take them off some of your, the Department of Agriculture people that you deserve a nice ride.
This is the time.
No, don't get it.
I mean, they need something to feed you.
So, do you think anybody around you can put on that big old bike and get the fancy food and all that for a certain charity's money?
I don't like that.
The food, the food.
... ... ... ... ...
Okay.
Fine.
We'll go on over.
We need to walk over, you know, right over the building.
I'll take you to the garden.
Go right to the garden and go on over.
All right.