Conversation 496-014

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Why do you have many problems at the present time?

Because they are the greatest.

I told the Ambassador that he was going to be the greatest senator in the world.

And we know what his character is going to be like.

And, unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to tell you about it, but I was going to be able to talk to you about it.

Well, the President is going to answer the question.

We also want you to specifically take the position of your descendant, Jesus Christ.

This is a very secretion of the Holy Spirit.

He was died and blessed now.

He will be coming again in a few days.

There's still some hot stuff for us to do.

Everybody's trying to get us involved.

But, uh, we have, uh, it's my personal decision.

As far as we're concerned, this is a problem in a deep way.

The words are actually impressive.

We're not going to go back.

We just want you to go get a handle on the problem.

That's something.

The only thing you do is this idea of jumping in and trying to judge other people and their internal problems.

It's not right.

It's not correct.

You do it.

He said that all is regarded to be with and relation to the Church, you know, and he felt it was very necessary.

And before it is announced, he replied to Mr. Imran Tiwana.

He said that it should be made quite clear that he looks at a solution, not in the military sense, but only if there can be a critical solution.

That has been his approach in the past, and that will be his approach.

I am not qualified for this position, I am not qualified for this position, and every move which he has made in the last two years follows this direction.

The break came, sir, because at last stages it became quite clear that what was being wanted even before the assembly was convened and met was a question of separation.

and they break from the country.

The very good selection was, I can't say, your own mandate is not for separation.

You have fought the selection with a powerful group of different people, but the mandate is for autonomy, for a larger share, a beautiful partnership, for economic management.

It's certainly not separation.

And he said, I'm a soldier.

I want to give you separation.

If you want salvation, you will find your method.

You will predict that.

But don't expect a soldier to give you the salvation without even going to the Washington Center.

And that is their main thing.

And in the last round they took place on the 24th.

Actually they suggested that there should be confederation.

And the Constitutional Advisor of President's team said that this is the

Confrontation can be between two sovereign countries.

We are working for a federal type of constitution, a very loose one, with a very large range of decentralization in our favor.

But there is an example of rotation.

So when he became convinced that the U-boss is a relation, that is, every effort is paid, and in the meantime there was complete travesty, because, you know, what sense does this give us, you know, plasticity?

and there was a complete collapse of India.

There was an atrocity being committed.

It is a very large state.

There is no option in our country and they are in a very difficult situation.

For the future, he said that my plan is that I want to have more power to be elected as a leader.

He said he doesn't want to have a leader.

The existing elections will be treated as that.

And apart from a dozen people against whom there will be contention that there will be a procession, the rest of the Awabi League can continue to be members of the National Assembly and members of the Pro-Chair Assembly as long as they do not insist on taking their title as Awabi here, or the party as Awabi here,

but they can contribute to the members and form government, either as a separate group or as independents, whatever their positions.

And his idea is to transform power as impossible.

For that purpose, he is pertaining an internal constitution.

And in this internal constitution, he will give maximum power and all the substance of the six points to the elected representatives.

And by doing so, he will establish that the action of the argument will direct against lawlessness and against recession and separation.

Otherwise, his regime has complete sympathy with the legitimate demands of East Pakistan, the peace of the country, and decent conditions.

And that package will also be closed up in six months, but within the context of one month.

And he feels that that would be a very important also

But the among the elected members who were modelled to feel that in fact this is an exactly what he wanted.

And anything beyond that is not our desire.

And we want to work within the context of our country.

They will drag it out.

And the courts are already in front of me.

And the president hopes that he will be able to succeed in getting sufficient number of people to come forward to run this country.

The only thing is that he said that this is subject to great and normal conditions in the sense of law and order in which we call it today.

Now what was normal except an oracle here and there.

And secondly, the revival of the civil administration which had previously ceased to operate to better their morale and have a sound infrastructure, which again is working well now.

Third would be that he said that there is one problem on which he has no control, and that is the activity of Indians on the border, their infiltrators.

And he said that if the U.S. can help us in this, in asking them to restate on this,

facilitated the process of the transfer of power, which he intended to play out.

So I'm feeling that in 1970, the decade is going to be very important, as it may, both in the social field, in the political field, in the economic field.

And it feels that Pakistan wants to play a positive role of stability

with the assistance and support and understanding and training of U.S. and other friends.

And he hopes that you will be there to lead your country in your second term of age, and that you will feel support to your own interest.

You have done so well in that part of the world, probably because the President has given knowledge

He feels that this understanding will be a great positive factor in creating conditions for the stability of patients in the next decade or so in terms of its future and prevent a relapse of movement and experiments towards, I think, social things and particularly the topic.

He's asked me to have a lot of discussions with him during that time and we hope that he'll have the support

We are facing great crises, but we are determined to address them and hope that we have the support and assistance of UTSA and other organizations internationally.

On the financial part, he said that it is free to invest, but more they will need it later.

But the major problem is they consider it

So that this waterways can be built and we can have some sort of coasters and others in that area.

Would you like some tea or coffee?

If you have tea, I'll have tea.

What would you like?

The second is that there is also a lack of persuasive power in such a way that we call it discrimination, not blood.

The ratio between land and population is very, very unfair to Pakistan.

The national constitution is very important.

We all have decided to step up Pakistan's land so that the British are always right.

And that is an American fight.

Yes.

No doubt.

We call it war crimes.

It's supposed to be financed from the government.

Are we doing as much as we can?

I think so.

The program has been going through.

Is that certainly what we need to do?

We can do it.

We are setting it up so that we have, so that people are not starved, even if the presence of food becomes lack of.

Sure.

Purchase of our rights.

Whatever.

You know, some groups said also that there should be an international effort, UN auspices for the foundations.

He said we are working out our requirements.

He said that if the army has been forced to take some stern action, he would like to use the army also for political corporations.

So he would like to use the army for the use of political corporations, he said in the last

Some that walk six miles, they don't have to pay the price and distribution.

But he will prepare to work in a scheme in which the population can be, the plan can be worked out, and in Pakistan, and probably used on the food side, the medicine side, other side.

Not only the rehabilitation of the economy like in Pakistan requires some

At this point, may I say something?

This is where we don't want any kind of voluntary organization, all kinds, just scream along as they did after the last cyclone, and create problems for us, wrong reporting, chaos and things like that.

This is very important, sir.

They say that when it came to killing people and putting down this disorder in Pakistan, how it came about.

So now the goal is to become, as we have done, the Foreign Administration of this government.

But we certainly want to use certain international organizations, some cover, to make it easy for people here to give presentations.

I know this is a big problem.

The Congress is demanding that we should have international organizations help.

But we'll take it.

I see the problem.

But we are very... You say people like to use the...

or whatever type it is.

But we certainly sit down with the human organization to work out any plan.

And we are not very diligent if there is any portion of exposure or activity we can't handle.

Very good.

Because these are the people, sir, one of the few that is not getting wrong politically.

Yes, that's right.

There is just one of them.

Let me ask you to do this.

What people are you seeing here at the government?

What people are you scheduled to see?

Uh, meeting, uh, in the back, back line.

Right.

And the U.S.A. from South Carolina, John Williams.

And, uh, the Secretary of State.

Secretary of State.

Yeah, I don't know.

We'll have to follow up.

We'll have to follow up on all these various matters to see what we can do.

You know, I mean, in terms of, I don't know, I don't think any of us are going to be able to say no.

Because I don't want to.

I mean, all these people who sit in their little editorial offices and write this and that and the other thing about it.

All I know is that we have a government here, basically, that's what is referring to us.

And the president is a good friend of mine.

He is so nice.

Secretary Romney is the same way.

And it is our view to stay out of this.

The civil differences may be there.

And we want to be as much assistance

We can't insist, of course, with what the law allows us to do.

And we do, we do have as the investors, the justices, the critics in the Congress, particularly the Senate, who were raised to look at all of this.

But we will be as hopeful as we can, having in mind the problems.

I think the problem with the bank is there's money.

The bank itself is one thing, but now it's the head of the consortium of other aid donors.

I think what we're actually reporting on is mainly the reluctance in Western Europe.

Other aid donors will not help.

They're reluctant to help with some political process that they can sell to their people.

as being a viable political process leading toward the foreseeable settlement of Pakistan, and thereby creating a framework for economic development reaching out into the future.

I see another word, sir.

What countries are you referring to?

Germany.

Britain first, Germany, Italy, Japan on the other side.

Britain and the United States are really the two major figures in the consortium.

We have a settlement.

and she did some things with her body there.

So, I came to the National School of Science, where I had the opportunity to talk to a teacher who had studied with me for about several months in 1968.

And I said, I'm going to be a member of the National School of Science.

They are going on in the space with the that is considered as suitable and with such modifications.

So, we will be taking up these matters and I think the U.S. will support the right direction.

Because time is also an essence here.

But tell me, what is the alternative?

Let's suppose that, as it were, when everybody has no cash, let's suppose the government fails, falls, and then falls.

What happens?

It's loose in the wings.

Pluto is even worse.

No, I mean... Another election, or chaos, or what?

That's what I mean.

You see, I always try to see these things personally.

People can say, well, we don't like this government because of this or that.

All right, let's accept the proposition, all right?

What's next, do you think?

What is next?

What do you think, Mr. President?

I suppose he would just say, well, do I have to quit?

What if it's going to happen to the country?

His intention was that he would invite the future governments to start it.

What?

Invite the future governments.

No, that's it.

and the Chief Government Marshal of India, it's not the end of the world, but it is.

So that they send it out to India, not in a national fashion, but in a very civil, sovereign way.

Then introduction of the national government.

And then, on the working of this interim constitution, the meeting of the constituent assembly, so that they can

in the 90s, experience had done with the political, judicial, and constitutional process.

Now, if the administration of the states, until they break down the system, the inauguration of the democratic process, the normal thing is that there should be fresh elections.

And the other thing is that the community should

cutting in some form until they are processed and wiped again.

What we have to do is to tell our critics here in the rest of the country, what's going to happen.

The fact is, if your government fails, it continues to fail.

I don't see any difference.

Actually, even if it takes any money,

If the army shifted today, there would be a complete collapse of the civil infestation, of the machinery of war, of economic divide, of deportation.

That would be a complete chaos in national frontiers.

And we would like Pakistan to be an element of stability in that area.

And I think even a weak Pakistan can be an area of volatile and

What happened in West Bengal last five years, with all the Indian ability and the great victory that she has won, she is still unable to control it.

35 million, same kind of people in West Bengal.

But ask every Indian, at least we kept her apart for 23 years.

At least we prevented them becoming communists.

Not on the other side.

But now this and that together, a hundred million of the maddest people on earth in that particular region, I think she should lose all her sleep at that point.

And of course we then, when we are a thousand miles away, thanking our stars that there is a thousand miles between us and the penguins.

Actually the two beings being together,

of relationship is also an element of moderation of all sides.

Otherwise, things can be different and unpleasant and critical.

This is also an element of stability that is moderation.

The exchange gets diluted.

What the minister is saying, sir, is that if Mr. Putto comes to power,

The fact that we have got East Pakistan, 70 million people with these new leaders that are going to be there, as a balance to Mr. Putto, will be of use to West Pakistan.

And the other way too.

Because in the common parliament it will be composed of both sides.

In the national parliament you will have West Pakistan,

47% and 53% will be East Pakistanis.

Now, if there is going to be extremism amongst 53 million East Pakistanis, it is much less than Jeevudha, much less extremism.

It should be less.

I mean, if there is going to be extremism, then Bhutto will be moderating influence on that, because they can't get their own way.

The East Pakistanis are extremists.

Similarly, West Pakistanis, Khutto wants to get too radical and so forward.

The East Pakistanis are 83% and the moderate elements amongst them will be fantastic, somewhat.

The danger then is that if both extremists join together, then of course they'll run away.

They'll say all Pakistan is part of it.

But that's not, that's less likely.

That's what we need.

I have a deep personal interest in your country.

We don't want to make your problems more difficult.

We hope that to the extent we can in our government, we can make them more easy.

Also, I don't know, as I said, I don't know all the intricacies of the various financial operations involved.

The World Bank, by the way, which has been pretty tough because of this, what you say, it's the Europeans that are going to be...

They've had a good bit of the same kind of pressure to be in the real world.

We can get to where we feel strongly about that tonight.

Yes, and that's very important.

Very important.

Yes, to put it out.

Particularly the Germans.

And the British.

I would make the film about him being moved by the Sun.

It's a very realistic film.

The impression that Peter Carter gave me was that they had a meeting of the Indian Marshal in New Zealand.

My first impression was that there was interest to cooperate at the government level, interest to help, but also set a lot of constraints because of the public risk.

And the conclusion was, the consensus was, that it would be helpful to cooperate and give assistance under the umbrella of the bank at the time, rather than by the tree.

We don't know what can happen.

All these countries are cursed now.

There are problems because of their monetary blocking around Europe, but it's all right.

Sir, Alec would be helpful, sir.

I'm talking now to the ambassador.

Yes, yes, I know.

I came here as an ambassador in Europe.

Sir, Alec was a prime minister too at that time.

He would be helpful.

Is Mr. Heath, who is not so...

common conscience, but the allies have got the background, you see.

And I think it will be helpful.

But the most important thing is, unless it is a lead from the U.S., the Soviet Union can help us, but based on the capacity of the U.S., they will not be able to do that.

And when you see Rodgers, he's just been in, has probably been in the central, and actually saw some of the people there.

So we'll probably see him tomorrow.

Ray, raise the same question for me.

We can do that.

All right.

And I understand from my thoughts, before the minister came, my thoughts were that the bank itself would want to do that.

But the U.S.

And if you were out in favor of an attitude, you'd want to go to the other side.

I think so.

I think we did that yesterday.

We should see.

We should see some of the problems here.

We can't promise miracles, but we've got to survive.

We don't want to make any bad happen to our friends.

Well, good to see you again.

Oh, yes.

Good.

These surgeons do amazing things.

Well, we wish you well.

This is the way out here.

Right.

Countries are harder.

Well, thank you.

I'm very happy to see you.

I wish you the very best in your stay.