Conversation 497-008

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I have it.

And here's the car.

Since you obviously enjoy good scenarios, I thought you might like to try some.

There you go.

Three minutes.

You hit the, uh, that's fine.

person who is a guest there today, each member who is a guest, and the profession.

And of course, to the Senate and Congressmen who are guest officers in this way.

But not standing in front of the Senate and Congress,

Uh-huh.

Is there any way you could set that off and set it off in a way that would separate sheet of paper so that they could print or something like that?

Is there any way you could do that?

Thank you.

Congressman Blank.

Now, we might be able to do that, if I got that before I was done.

Not too fancy, not too big, but it's a poison missile.

And, uh, not bad.

I just thought it was such a nice quote.

Why don't they like being caught?

You know, they like to stop.

If you stop, they'll stop saying that.

Uh, Paul Pepper, in motion, mentioned to me about the single tarot.

The Archbishop Tarot.

He said it's a great thing.

It's a great thing.

I suppose he called you.

I don't know.

That's probably the same one.

This is very odd.

There's a bishop, a Methodist bishop, Walter Ringer, who gave this speech.

His sermon is done.

Yeah, we've got some of this Episcopal bishop or something.

Well, that's why I was wanting to check Claude Petters out, because he's such a terrible guy.

He's terrible.

I mean, terrible if he arrives.

He could be, but I think we better check with somebody else.

I heard they have a new son.

or else in a paper song, that he was, that he's a young kid who can really talk, too.

Yes, that's how I know him.

I don't know him at all, but he apparently gets across to the youth and other people and himself well, and he gets you.

I don't know who he is either, and I think he can, you know, I mean, tell us something he can also sing, you know, so we can find out who he is, because...

Alan, who is Groch?

Do you know who he is?

Groch, B-R-O-C-H. How do you spell it?

Groch, yeah.

Well, it's not the Congress today, so I'm not going to say anything.

It's just a presentation.

What's his background?

I won't say anything else.

Right.

Yeah.

Well, if it's his fault, I'll turn him inside out.

Yeah, Robo's been injured or something.

I didn't call with the same name.

But he's not the guy.

Good.

Well, that's what he wants.

He needs it.

No, we're here for you.

We've got something to do.

We'll get you on the line.

Yeah.

With regard to our conversation with Sexty, I think you'd better do some re-assessment of this volunteer or anything.

Because maybe these are the damn things that are going to float.

Maybe Sexty is right.

Maybe we've got to do the direct extension.

I just don't know, I don't want to, I don't want to do it myself.

Maybe if I had known horses too great, it wouldn't have meant that much to me.

I don't, I don't know.

I don't know if I'm going to be able to pass others, because they're on the ground.

But would you tell me, I just want to know.

Maybe I just think that it would be better for the NSC to take an understanding of this volunteer argument.

I'm just, I'm not sure where,

I mean, I'm not sure it'll flow.

Yeah, even with the war over, I'm not sure that anything will flow.

I mean, despite what the Gates Committee said about the rest, I know it's late, and I'm excited that we're going to come down to it.

I just think that we could, of course, maybe we're going to find a few other things that might be able to go in.

It's already hard to get people to go into service.

Although, there are a lot of months in my good life that we still have

Correct.

Yeah.

Okay.

What about another thing?

What about Murphy?

Is he back yet?

Has he reported to us or what?

Correct.

All right.

We're going to roll for that.

We're going to fight for that.

Let's roll.

Great.

That's a beautiful last night out there.

Oh, it's your dog.

It was a success.

Yes, it went on forever, and most people left, and I didn't.

Ellington was back playing in Vietnam.

I just felt like, you know, somebody had to sit there.

Yeah.

Well, they all stopped to program a program.

I think they were supposed to go on, I don't know if she had to go on, but that's funny, for a champagne buffet.

But Leo was, it was Brenda and I and Walter in the end.

Oh, all right.

And James Clark, but, and I gave more in, I don't know, too long, but...

Martin Martin started the standard with about 20 of them and the New York Symphony was excellent.

Well, they started 20 of 9 and then they didn't finish until about 10 of 10.

Then they had an innovation and it took them quite a while to set up the different types of bands.

You know, the only thing you can do, and one thing I will, of course, when I arrive, I know that those people are not going to go anywhere unless you run it.

Because if you don't run it, we did very well not to run anything.

Everybody runs it.

I mean, those press people, they did not run anything.

They had a master's ceremony.

That person was at least three-quarters of an hour too long to begin with.

Because I was an hour and a half too long.

It's all right.

It was kind of...

That makes it worse.

We'd like to have the automation.

I hope you can, but of course you will.

Have it set up so that it isn't small.

I'm going to try to see if they can't do that fairly rapidly.

Bring it up.

Put it on a line of sheet of paper so we can put a small wall.

They'll all put it up.

I think we may have small parts of it there, which would be very good.

Same size of a picture.

That's what I thought as well.

I'm not really aware of the way it's going to be done.

The water from the flood in Hanover is a beautiful point.

Is she dating with this guy?

Yes, but the guy doesn't know.

He's gone.

He went to the South.

He's wearing a lot of hair, I don't know.

My best luncheon she did with these congressmen was the best dinner I've ever made in my life.

She ran through the initiative one moment, two minutes later, and I ran through the advice that she'd made in 29 years and had never sat down with a dinner before at any meal in the White House.

Oh, really?

Didn't any of those people have that in them?

Never.

The congressman's wife, she had never said no.

Even made a congressman for 29 years.

One yesterday said, I've been a congressman's wife for 22 years.

I had never said no.

So why didn't somebody tell that story then?

I don't know.

Tell it.

Oh, no.

I'm not.

Yeah.

They killed him.

Right.

That's Ryan Dunn.

See, the women are so jealous that we had to end up right with these men over on that side.

We'll make it.

I'll tell you what, Helen Thomas was right, for example, or Francis Wilkins.

Yeah.

And that ain't looking for anything.

Right.

That's why I think that's a good talk.

A good talk.

You know what's good.

These lunches or something...

I was one of the friends.

I found a lot of the congressmen sitting there.

They sat down for a meal.

And I knew that they had been to receptions.

So I sat right there, and the congressman's wife, and her senator's wife, who had been to a meal.

Why else?

Because you repeat over and over again and talk to people.

The committee chairman, the president, they come to their title.

And the people down the line, the gloves, they say, I was at lunch, boy, I was not there yet.

Every congressman's wife and every congressman had an opportunity to meet him at the White House.

The congressman had breakfast, the others had lunch, and the distance was one, six, eight, don't say eight, eight times.

I've been a congressman for 29 years.

Another 22 years.

It was the first time in 22 years I had ever sat down for a meeting at the White House.

I'll find out if they put it out.

I'll see if anything, if they've given any background on that.

Well, I think they may have.

Maybe they don't understand that this is the important story.

This is the important story.

Things are going to be fun, fun, fun.

And let's see, she looked absolutely beautiful last night.

And when she came in, she got a standing ovation.

Correct.

There's only one, only one embassy.

I know there's one embassy.

Not in any of those places.

I'm checking to see if there's one.

I'll talk to, um, Hill about my art stuff.

Tom.

Well?

Uh, we don't have a consulate there.

Unless they put something up recently.

So I'll find them.

Yeah, I see your point.

And you know, if the two of them move around like this, I still will talk to Pat about maybe going over at one point and then going into Germany.

Go ahead.

Where was he?

Uh, let's see.

Oh, sure though, sure though.

You remember, he had been in that same old crowd every time.

And, uh, and, uh, he, uh, ran.

Mrs. Johnson did.

She worked there a day or two.

You know, he invited them.

The maid didn't try to press an answer, did she?

No.

The maid didn't.

She would not go to them, did she?

No.

She never went out to the airport to meet anybody when he used the glass.

We never miss.

Why?

Well, you meet him here, which is much nicer.

Thank God.

We, our crowds would be so miserable.

That's all we could do to end it.

I climbed through the Washington, well, river through that through the Washington Strait, through the Kansas State.

I'm horribly embarrassed by it.

I'll do it again.

And you would have had to do it, too.

I sure would.

You grow the churches in the crowd, don't you?

Yeah, in the crowd.

And that's it.

You know, it's a dumb question.

I don't know if it's worse now than it was then.

Oh, now, yes.

Now, you know, it's a black city.

I'm sorry.

James Anderson came out and said anything.

Did she?

She said that's right and she keeps telling people and she wants you to keep repeating that reason that she spoke again and I forgot where she told me that but I don't know.

Well, that's a quote for a common one.

Well, she did say, or she talked about when you were saying your name.

Well, you said the quote.

Oh, sure.

It's not 100% personal information.

She said that she tells them all that if John had had the vision that you had to have handled the riots when they were burning and so forth, and just moved in and just taken everybody, you know, just not let them do anything, the country would not be in the bad shape that it is today.

Some of the people around here, I must say, they learned a lot.

Some weren't worried when they did want to do it.

Well, I'm not going to tell the chief to go in there and bust those people and run away from him.

I'm here to lie.

I stood up for her for her to even know what the public reaction was, and I was right.

I thought if the chief of police was ordered to go in and bust somebody, the president would cut him back.

The very beginning.

And not waiting to see whether the chief comes out or not.

Too many people in government are that way.

That's right.

They'd rather not do anything, because they might be, they might be, once a lot of people leave, they will not be alive.

There's some good articles about, too, about the, the news summary text and the business, and that Handel, Clint Handel, Handel, he wrote a book.

Nick Timish has written some really terrific articles.

I don't know if you've seen any of his interviews, but he's written quite a few extremely good articles as far as you're concerned and you're a fan.

And on those kids, he really, he spelled it out what they were like.

Stop it.

I hope he can't.

If I can tell those little things that, uh, Harlan said, that's going to be...

They didn't really talk to these guys.

They were so touched by them that he couldn't... Harlan, those guys, he can't get out.

He's a really good director.

I think he should memorize Harlan.

I'll do a lot of things you don't like to say.

All right.

Rose, that meeting with Albert's secretary seems to be very important to us.

She's probably down in Seattle.

She said, she really doesn't know what the problem is.

She said, you know, some person comes in from out of town, and they invite me, and I just think, I've got to go.

I go, and he said, I can't.

I have a couple of drinks, and they really hit me, and I'm so tired.

I said, you've got to quit.

I said, just don't go.

I said, I won't.

You leave this office, you go home, and I assume it's for somebody above you.

You don't have to go to anything below you.

Speakers should not go to something for every jackass that comes in.

I said, they're gonna, they're gonna, they've done enough.

Paul Carnegie spoke up even better and said, yes, if you do that, go to the reception.

Get your picture taken and get the hell out of there.

That's right.

That's what you have to do.

Which is what we do.

Oh, it doesn't matter.

In fact, I don't know.

I didn't know what you mean by that.

Go to the reception.

Shake your hands.

How do you do?

Glad to be here.

Leave.

But you know what?

And I said to her, I said, well, I said, Harrison, my experience in many ways is that I didn't.

I said, Harrison, my experience, we went through it all.

For the first four years, I almost killed myself.

The next four years, we stopped and it didn't make a goddamn difference.

Nobody messaged me.

The idea that there are certain things you could do, one a year, just goes a little high.

The girl just got to, just regret it when he, you know, already came in.

That's what people expect.

That's good to know.

Because he's probably his own worst enemy.

A lot of guys on the floor, they say, Joe, you're coming to the reception tonight.

He goes back to his office, he's laying on the floor.

So, as I think he was, he was one of the loudest talkers.

That's the way I have to respond.

Well, I thought you were one of the best liars I knew.

I had a lot of friends with the Black Men for the second year.

We lied to some of our best friends.

Best friends?

Thank God.

But most of them that we lied to, we don't have.

So it didn't turn out right.

They didn't lie to us.

They didn't.

They know that the poor man is killing himself.

They're all killing themselves.

The best thing that's happened to me is that we have, for the last three weeks, have not had too many heavy evenings.

Seven o'clock comes around here and I don't want to work anymore.

Do I please?

Just so you don't go to anything.

I got quite a lot of responses.

I'll tell you.

Apart from my loss, I don't know.

Yeah, it was a mess.

Let me ask you this.

I.K.

Roosevelt was planning on trying to work, because one of these congressmen told me, his wife, the old business, my wife, she said, for 22 years I've been here, it's the first time she ever said I'm not going into the White House.

Another congressman said, for 29 years, he said I'm not going into the White House.

He doesn't understand that kind of publicity.

That's the most important kind, see what I mean?

So I told Rose to find out, I heard Eric got out, and that's...

I don't know how else you can tell her, but does Connie realize that that's what's really, it's an action center, it's just like, you have a ricochet all over the place.

Do you have anybody over in that office who understands that?

Does she see that, or does she see her job more just as a, rather than a step up, straight up?

That's the kind of thing, Connie, that's the kind of point she's talking about.

She usually does, she usually got these two points.

These are Democrats and Republicans.

First of all, you're doing a nice thing, but then no one else has done it.

That's the trick.

When we're there, those bastards will not write it.

On the other hand, somebody like Harold Collins or Louisville will write it, but they ain't got nothing else to write about.

Well, have they got any new ideas yet?

The programs are just maybe it's a trade.

We put sapphire and boron and scallion in a bag, sure, and see what they come up with.

You know what I mean?

The sapphire and boron and scallion.

They're not going to stand by and talk, but they're good at that.

So I think, well, I hear research people like, say, let's name some of the younger guys.

I guess, yeah, like Andrews and Koch.

Andrews, Koch, and Krutikian, some of those guys that have, right, are less inhibited, maybe.

That's what I was thinking in terms of...

Well, those...

In a way, that's true.

In another way, those are all things that only a second of people are interested in.

Sure.

So you can play...

One deal for that type, another deal for that.

It's just, they don't, they don't tie together.

You know what I'm saying, sir?

No.

They've got to fight for health, for kids, for health, for education, for work, for peace.

All the peace that we're certified for that.

There's got to be a...

Maybe an outsider right now.

But we used to go through this kind of gathering.

It was terrible.

I think I'll hold on that ship from Ohio.

That's what you want to do?

Yes, sir.

I don't have any ship from Ohio.

Then I'll find out what the name of that airline is.

And I just want to have a copy.

What does this mean?

John Mitchell.

John Coffey.

Coffey, Mitchell, Cox, and Fleming.

Must be on the same person.

Well, I don't know why they're doing it.

That's the point.

I'd like to know who the hell is moving stuff.

I don't know why, but for what reason?

I hope he is.

I hope he's an ass.

If it could well not be, though, if it could well not be, it could well be political stuff.

I don't know what it is.

won't judge it over.

Let's find out.

I'm going to tell them they can't do it.

And I'm going to tell them why they have to.

I think we're sure we've got problems in Florida.

Why create problems in Ohio to cure girls?

Let's take the not bad things out of Massachusetts.

Take something out of Massachusetts.

Can we do that?

We're in Massachusetts.

We're in Minnesota.

That's a good idea.

That makes a lot of difference, doesn't it?

And maybe there was a hell of a good reason to make it look that way.

And it was going to come down.

And if we could really push that, we could traumatize them, we could get them all over the river.

And the name I was pushing for was New Water, the new water program.

I saw somebody left on my desk, a little fellow left with a water drop that says New Water.

I don't know whether they'd already got a new water program.

Was that what they were calling it in there?

A new water program.

That's what it is, in a way.

Not the fresh water, the clean water.

It's not the fresh water.

That's the point.

It's new water.

You're making, in effect, you're making more water.

Just call it a new water program, which is different than fresh water.

Fresh water is sometimes another environmental program.

A new water program.

That's right.

I know the problems.

She's crushed and competes too much with other programs they've got.

That's the problem with our whole reorganization thing.

We're going right against our own time.

We're doing exactly what Johnson and everybody else.

Johnson's like this.

He's sending separate programs outside of the

It's exactly what he was doing, because it's the way you get something happening, you get some credit for it.

Goddamn right.

But do more of them.

That's why you set up 400 of them like that.

You can't get a counterculture for two goddamn dollars.

You can't get credit for very many, but you can sure take the half of those that are your babies, your pet projects that you ride dirt on, that you're always running around and like them.

Park business is one misaffected insurer.

But I don't want you to deal with that.

The administration gives you every damn little park there is.

The parks are a pride of mine.

And we've done something.

If we want the water, we might get a break.

And we've done something.

a good handle because they're both the right thing to do.

They both have to be done.

You've got to bust through both of those problems.

You put the initiative in and one of them pops up on your ear and you just get it.

That's what you're basically talking about.

I don't know why he did that.

It's a total reaction to the Bay of Pigs.

Yeah.

The Bay of Pigs can happen to people's minds.

You got the back of his hand.

And he thought it true.

But that he threw out on one that there's no chance, was no chance of a payoff unless you get a man on the moon by 1970.

He knew it wouldn't be done while he was there.

These things could be done while you're here.

It's not likely.

In either case, but it is impossible.

What?

Yeah, that's for sure.

And cancer helps.

Sometimes, you know, it just may make a break.

Sometimes somebody's going to get up in the morning and have discovered the thing.

Real?

Yeah.

The diversity of things like that.

I mean, a lot of people don't give a thing about medicine.

A lot of people don't care about water.

But it definitely appeals to the way we do.

It has to appeal to California, Texas, and the whole lot of people who aren't worried about their lives.

Yes.

I just think that we're doing a lot of good things, although we know the company should have a lot of Congress and what's the matter.

We may be running the show better.

I think we are.

But you don't know what I'm saying.

That's the big problem.

I don't think people really know, even if they appreciate the fact that things are going well.

I just wonder.

Yeah, but I think it's something they kind of figure that's expected from us.

Expecting our corrects to achieve, we're honest.

That's right.

Efficiency?

Well, we're not.

Relatively, we are, but on an absolute scale, we're not, because the government just did.

And we never will be.

There's no way that we're going to run into police proficiency.

I was wondering how you'd be able to get that cancer then to arrive.

I think so.

Yes, Richardson did a pretty good job, and

I said a little bit about the desalination thing today.

The clean water thing.

One of the previous discussions was the greater reactor and so forth, indicating that all of this was part of what you had under discussion and study here.

Yeah, we're going to have something on that, too.

Well, I've left it.

Yeah, I know.

We will have something.

I don't know when, but we do.

We may just wrap it up in one thing.

It's a package.

I've got to have a program.

Richardson does very well.

Decolonization is an enormous thing.

They should.

Put each other on the hill.

No, I don't even agree with that.

Unless we decide to hit this Manseal thing.

What's that?

On the European troops.

The European?

The troops.

Manseal is submitting a resolution today on the reduction of U.S. forces in Europe by history.

All right.

This is not a good position.

No, that's right.

He was out there withdrawing two divisions last year of troops, so that's half.

Well, this is a resolution he intends to, I think, put...

I don't think so.

Save money.

Save money, I guess, in fueling that... His line is that if we have 50% that's making troops, we will be 50% more effective.

We've got too many people, we've got too many generals sitting around off-street clubs.

He's pretty sure about that.

He's sure he is.

That's right.

He's talking about actual threats.

And if you're worried about that, his argument is that people should use some cold, tight troops in there, about half as many as you've got, and shape them up.

They're going to tell the Europeans they've got to put some defense in for themselves.

It's always real that way at this moment with the Europeans.

He's not on the bed, look it.

People would prefer to get the hell out of here, period.

They don't want anyone over there.

He's not in the bedroom at all.

Okay, I won't say a thing.

I don't get into it at all, I understand.

I guess that's not a comment.

You don't have to.

No, our position has been stated.

Okay.