Conversation 501-004

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What a lovely day.

I'd like to, I've got an article coming in from last week's news week that I'm going to read.

It's a script by a professor from Columbia.

And, uh, I don't know if you can get the answer to that.

You're part of the Flakers, right?

You're part of the college.

Oh, I think it's important for you to get a feeling of what the last night was like.

But, uh,

What we have done up to this point is to pursue a policy of trying to get the Arabs to have some trust in us.

They finally did.

They finally accepted the initiative.

The only way that could ever be settled was to have the United States play a part.

Everything else was hopeless.

The United Nations had no chance.

Now, we had no reason to suspect that it would work out as well as it had today, although this is what we were trying to do.

Now, Saddam is a very forceful man.

He is a lot of strength.

He is nationalistic as a devil.

He probably is untrustworthy, so I don't want you to think that I'm trusting him, but he has decided to, I'm convinced, to change his position.

He has determined to become closer to the West for economic and political reasons.

He's got a hell of a situation there.

spending his money on his arms.

He knows his people can't operate them, can't fly the damn airplanes.

He's smarter than the Russians.

He doesn't like that very much.

Now, what I wanted to say to you, and he told me this in private, and then he told Joe the same thing, and he didn't say it unequivocally.

He said it was categorically as you possibly can.

And I haven't briefed, I haven't told anybody at the State Department or anywhere else because it would be a disaster if we did.

He said, I have to have, as Eric agreed, it's important for me to have these agreements.

You're the only one who could help us get the United States.

I don't like the presence of the Russians.

I am a nationalist, but I had no way of defending our country.

We had no way of defending our country except to get Russian help.

You wouldn't give it to us.

Nobody else would.

It's costing me a lot of money.

I'm paying the salaries of the Russians.

I'm paying cash for the equipment I get.

And he said, I want to give you this promise that if we can work out an interim settlement and it'll take me six months to open the canal, I promise you, I give you my personal assurance that all the Russian ground crews will be out of my country at the end of six months.

I will keep

Russian pilots to train my pilots because that's the only way my pilots can learn to fly.

But insofar as the bulk of the Russians are concerned, the 10,000 or 12,000, they will all be out of Egypt in six months if we can make a deal.

The final peace agreement is all the way to the universe without a suicide.

And I said, well, Mr. President, you know, based on that, you may be able to work it out.

I said, the complicating factor is the Russian presence of the Russian troops.

If you can assure us that they'll be out in six months, that makes our problem a lot easier.

I said, you tell us that we shouldn't be so pro-Israeli.

We have to be supportive of Israel's position because you've got the Russians here in large numbers.

I said, for as much as we would like to be

friendly as hell with you.

We can't, as long as you have this number of Russians here, you might as well realize it.

I said, we have to supply Israel with arms, as long as you've got a large number of Russian troops in your country.

On the other hand, once that is not the case, once they've left, or most of them have left, it's a difficult game.

Now, in going back, he told me again, he said, I told the Secretary of State, I'll tell you, I give you my assurance, we'll work it out.

Now, if that should be done, then we have to take it obviously with a grain of salt.

But if he stays in power, and he could do that, he could deliver, it would be the greatest thing for you, Mr. President, and the administration as possible.

I mean, to get the Russians out of it is an important thing.

But what it would do, if you could do it, if you could get the ceasefire beyond election, if you could get

The Russians are pulling out of it.

You can show that.

They're pulling out of it.

Now, as a result of this trip, you see Basil has changed his mind.

He's coming here now.

No, no, he's on schedule.

Yeah, well, he didn't.

When we went there, he wasn't sure.

He said, I think it's risky for me to do it.

It's an M.A.

I'm going to ask you about that, because I'm not going to take the vote.

It's an M.A.

Yeah.

And to get a copy of the M.A.

vote...

uh, Leonard, uh, in which he, uh, uh, he has one, quite one, one page, column, one page on Israel.

It's basically, it's a summary of what his analysis of Israel is.

Mr. President, I, I would appreciate it if you could just take the two minutes, you know, three minutes, but this is a very good item.

Mr. President, you called, uh, called me a man.

I never, I,

This is a very perceptive one.

It's just this week.

It was a pain in the neck.

Well, I just want to finish this up.

I want to finish this up by saying you haven't put that entity thing that stood out to you.

Because that sort of thing was Rachel.

Oh, yeah.

The thing that I told the leader yesterday.

I'm going to hear you on that one.

Well, let me tell you, I had a very good personal relationship with him, and it worked out beautifully.

First place, I had a feeling that Ago, who was close to him, so I asked him to see him personally in the hotel.

He came out for 45 minutes right away.

And then I spent some time with him at Burgess' house, and the next day I went through the newspaper and saw the whole plan.

Now, Hickel is his other right hand.

He's got the army on one hand, and the press on the other.

And Hickel is the closest advisor in my own way, outside of Fozzie.

Yeah, that shit was a freak.

I just want to finish this in a quick picture.

So he said, and then as we were leaving, I talked to him.

He said, can we communicate with him?

Don't do it through channel.

Get in touch with Hayco, he said, on any personal thing.

He said he is relying considerably upon Hayco's judgment of Hayco's ability to move to the West.

I have an English wife who's quite attractive.

Obviously, Sadat at one point said to me, he hit me over the side, he talked just the two of us for quite a while.

He said, when this is over with, I'm going to make you pay for a lot of this.

I said, what are you talking about?

This has been done to some of my towns.

He said, they were done along the Suez, done by your planes.

And he said, you're going to have to help me rebuild those.

That was very significant that

He's thinking down the road.

In other words, he wants economic assistance.

And that's, of course, our big stroke.

We were trying to get an appeal for, you know, what we could do for that damn country.

He told me, like I said, we could just use the rest of the Arab country.

There are 150 million of the Jews.

For Christ's sake, take people over.

Who are the Jews?

A billion here, no success like that.

But I think the thing I want to emphasize is that I think that it's possible if he stays in power, that we can make a breakthrough here, that we'll have tremendous support.

I mean, Vietnam is, I think it's a, it was a masterful, if you look it up, it's a masterful, and we've done it extremely well, but it still was making the best of a bad deal.

Whereas this, if we could pull it off, it will be,

of a step toward peace that no one thought was possible.

Vietnam is something where we rescued a bad situation.

It had to be done.

There was no choice.

Here, we are making yardage in a situation that we didn't have to.

Yeah, you should, Mr. President, you should see how the European street is now.

It's entirely different.

My God.

Even in, I'll say, even in France, Schuman was so pleased he's been telling people, you know, I mean,

I don't want to take an invite, I'm just saying the attitude is quite different for us.

And I think that the thing that I want to close with on this note is that we are going to have to squeeze.

Sadat said, he's pretty clever, he said, I want you to know that I don't expect you to do too much all of a sudden.

He said, I know you can't kill, you can't make him do things.

As I read this, you know, it must be quite a guy.

So, now, tell me, before you leave that, did you start to talk to her?

Was it a pretty cheese musical?

Now, the other, that Diane is fine.

If he was fine with this, too, we could make a deal quickly.

How about, uh, I don't know how long, I'm kind of full.

He's great.

He's not as good as Diane.

What about the foreign minister?

He has no influence.

He didn't say who.

It's obviously the fight between Diane and probably Sapir, who's on our side.

Yeah.

And Diane is pretty good.

He was quite embarrassed about the first night.

She doesn't have any

I said to her, I said to her at the end of the meeting, the second day, uh, Mrs. Bannon, Prime Minister, in view of this discussion, which has been very constructive, uh, I'd like to send Mrs. Sisco back to Egypt.

Uh, but I wanted to get, I'm thinking of it, but I want to get your views on it.

Do you think that would be helpful to our common cause?

We're in this all together.

And she said, you know, she said, hey, she's wondering if you would listen.

So I said, well, that wasn't my question, Madam Prime Minister.

I want you to ask it.

I want to ask you, do you think it would be helpful if I found cause?

It isn't a question of your exercising a sheet coat.

And she said, but I've already said that.

Well, I said, you didn't.

So that wasn't what she said at all.

I said, you sounded as if you were reluctant, but I said, what is your view on it?

And this has got to be good.

I can look in everybody's, the whole cabinet and say it.

Well, I think it would be a pretty good idea.

And I said, fine, and I'll do it.

I'm glad you didn't say that.

But it's that attitude.

God damn it, she actually did.

We're doing her a big, big favor, you see.

Now, the rest of them know.

They know that she's wrong on this.

I said, well, all you do is criticize everything that we do.

You criticize the United States.

You criticize the United Nations.

You take issue with the Pope.

I said, you don't have any friends left.

What do you think we should do?

Is your only suggestion to stay where we are?

Well, anyway, we've got the press, and I think Rubin agrees with us.

I think Cheyenne agrees with us.

But we've got to be tough.

Now, I know that the European community, they consider the whole problem, and they go vote on it.

And they prepared a paper, which they haven't made public yet, in which they have gone farther than we have.

They say Israel should give back more than we say they should give back.

So Israel doesn't have any support.

Just a little support.

We can't maintain this position.

United States interests are too important throughout the world, not only in this part of the world, but throughout the world for us to maintain support for you when you can't get any other nation in the world to support you.

Nobody is on your side.

We can't continue to do that.

The point I'm making is we've got to squeeze them publicly.

We've got tremendous support now in this country.

We've got the media with us.

We've got everybody in the United Nations with us.

We've got Utah and PR thinking we're doing fine.

We've got all the Jewish papers supporting us.

And she's complaining.

She just wanted to say, if I'm running a campaign against me, she told us to be running a campaign against me.

God damn it.

You can't send your people over trying to cultivate our public opinion without our reacting the other way.

So I think we can, first place,

There was no hostility at all in Israel to me.

On the contrary.

First, like, even I got street crowds and go places and...

It's interesting, you know, it's... Well, they were silly.

It's like...

They took me into that memorial, which is, you know, a very moving place.

It's tempting to look at all the pictures and, you know,

and I'll see the dead bodies and, you know, and they grow and they have microphones under your face all the time.

What do you think of this one, this devil, and he's spoken to all the police.

I mean, I had it on my hand and then they were really just saying one thing and then they'd get me.

Just as he said, I have to bust up here.

He was with another guy, someone I don't know, who was stealing from the prison.

He said, I've never taken shit, but just take it just like shit.

It's awful.

I don't know what I hear.

Apart from that, that's just...

They're going to be a hell of a time, you know, in getting any immigrants.

As a matter of fact, their problem is immigration.

Keeping the population up for their reasons.

Provide their economic benefits.

We've got to do anything.

We're going to work on anything.

Of course we are.

The only part of that that's interesting to me is the parts, the real parts, where the last half is underlined.

I'll show you the attitude of the man who's read it.

No, no, no, no, no.

On that page, you know, the first page.

The thing I'm showing you there, the real attitude is, this is going to be dragged out for 1972 on the election campaign.

That's what it is.

Now, the whole point of this, they're...

and foreign policy to be made by the American Jewish minority.

They're not going to allow it to be done.

And under the circumstances, the thing to do that we're going to squeeze, we're going to squeeze now, the difficulty is you're going to have three Democratic candidates.

Hillary is already, of course, aligned with the polls.

Both sides to an extent, but more or less.

And Jackson is... Well, is that just a change?

A change, yes.

Humphrey, of course, has always been one of theirs, and they know him, and Teddy's one of theirs.

I have the only one good business for them.

No, when I say not for them, we've done a hell of a lot for them.

But very, very practically, I just said, we can't, we're not going to give you the damn arms unless we, we're not going to give them anything more at all.

I don't want any more arms anymore.

He cannot be assistant to anything else unless we get something out of him.

I guarantee you that they'll start a war.

Bullshit.

They're not going to start war because they can't start one unless we provide the imprelevance to the Russians.

We are not going to provide imprelevance to our war.

At this time, they aren't going to get away with provoking them like they did the other time.

Oh, there was maybe the other time there was one on both sides.

Let's forget them.

Provoke the other.

I think Nasser had a lot to do with that, too.

The Israelis did their part.

They at least took a tremendous strike.

But I think what we've got there, the Israelis have got to realize is that maybe they cannot get this

run for the Congress and get us for another half a billion dollars and more airplanes and the rest of it.

And that is our stroke.

The question is, what do we next have on the deal with all that?

Well, coming up at the end of June, right at the time, right at the time she was most bitchy, she gets up here and makes a plea for more money.

So I just sat there like this, and she said, any questions?

I said, no, thanks.

And...

So they don't know what the hell, I didn't say anything.

They can't, you know, on one hand they tell us to get out, I'm gonna save us, I'm gonna be safe to live.

If, you know, I mean, the only thing we have to be worried about, as my presentation mentions here, is to take some move that appears to strengthen the Russian position vis-a-vis Tsukasa there.

I just think the Quakers should be pro-Jewish.

And they do work on all sorts of terrible things.

But I think he got a thoughtful feedback.

This is, this is the way he said it.

You know, I flew down to Galva Aqua.

See, that was a good stroke.

We got that 707.

We were flying airplane.

And we were flying about quite territory.

But we flew over to Galva Aqua in that plane.

And General Violet was reading this whole thing with us.

Out in the cockpit with a co-pilot seat.

He stood behind me, showed me everything.

But on the way down to Galva Aqua, it was beautiful.

Beautiful.

I remember the Lawrence Parade.

It's one of the nicest buddies of all you can mention.

The tribal church, of course, is right at the end of the split of land.

What they've done in addition to the security considerations, they can make you see it in one of Miami Beach's other buildings, the 332.

This is, uh, that just, uh, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just,

Bastards don't have their taxes up, you know.

Now, here they say American promises will always be broken, but they are important because we can always catch them in their arms.

And they think they've got us.

They haven't got us.

I have concluded that on this issue, this issue, if we do nothing else while we're here, we've got to face these people down.

And it may be that they're taking what you say about Saddam, hey.

Yeah, yeah.

But what happened is, I'm seeing things in a broader sense.

And he was that regional, rural Arab community.

Basically, I mean, sure, the Egyptians were poor, but they were killing better people.

They were better people.

And the same is true of old Faisal.

You've got to like him.

You know, the other thing is, now that I don't think I have a true character, though I have Rumi, there's only John, but I must say,

And I said, you know, here's our position.

We've heard all the arguments.

We're in this boat together.

It's a tough one because nobody's for us.

We work for each other and we're supporting you.

And I'm here to talk about the present and the future.

And I'm very anxious to get your views.

What do you think we should do now?

That's what you think.

This is the first meeting.

This is the whole cabinet.

And what does she do?

She makes a speech about 9 or 10 minutes, and all the other statements, what she said in 1947, all the polling.

The other thing I want to say before I forget this, Sadat said, Sadat said, after we went back, after Joe went back, I feel like in my discussions with Israel, he said, this is very reasonable, this is the first time that I've ever heard,

Physician from Israel, I'm glad that you were able to get it for me.

I'd love you to think about it.

And what I would like to do in a few weeks is send Dr. Fauci to the United States.

Now, if he comes, and I won't mention this to anyone, but if he comes, that'll be a major event.

He's a prime minister of Egypt.

He's a former former.

Yeah, well, he's a nice fellow.

He'd make a great guy after this, sir.

Wouldn't it be good if I'm upgraded?

Because I understand you're people all over the place.

Well, you're people, but at least in Germany.

My small dad, when he's here in Japan, of course, he's a badger.

Why don't I get Faisal when he comes?

He's been putting up his shoes.

What in the hell is going on?

You see, I'm just a little bit...

I'm getting caught, but my money has to through.

I didn't get you right.

What I meant is, what we'll do is, the way I was, I'd like to do those things.

I'd like to have them as small as we've done before, but at the same time, at 40 feet, we're on a square table.

They're going to be nice and not just bad.

But I think it'll also be a great sort of feeling, you know, that we're paying attention to that.

What's that?

Well, you know, could you talk about such, I know it's pretty mature, could you talk about recognition rather than the matter of recognition?

They say it can't be done through mechanism.

Well, he said as soon as the interim settlement is worked out, no matter, and I said, well, why don't we take some steps down?

So we did.

We're going to send another man to Cairo.

He's going to send another man here to increase the intersection.

But he said that's the short thing.

He said he can get some other countries involved.

Uh, possibly Sudan, maybe Algeria.

I don't know anything else to do with it.

I don't know what's going on.

That's right.

Just Algeria.

Which ones we wrote?

Sudan, Algeria.

Well, of course, I didn't live in Algeria.

I was thinking of Syria.

Syria.

Oh, no.

Well, we wouldn't be able to.

We wouldn't want to.

No, no, no.

Sudan, though, because it's a big city.

I've been there.

It's great.

Great country.

Uh, all right.

Well, there aren't any churches except they're black.

Well, as a matter of fact, some of this research needs to be done.

Think about that whole part of the world right now.

It's so much more interesting than most other parts of the world.

Yeah.

Look, I've got a little bit to talk about.

Do you want to talk about that?

Yeah.

Well, what I have to talk about is...

It's, uh...

Very.

When I was in San Juan, I know you've heard of this too, so you're going to have to listen to it.

Exactly.

On the gospel, YouTube calls you may, at that time, send a message to them.

In other words, they say, it's a message YouTube has delivered to the other.

Why?

Well, let me explain that to you.

Stay in the position that, first of all, you're not going to get it.

First of all, we're not going to get a comprehensive survey out on the wall.

We are only going to be out around this place.

I think that's the third paragraph.

It would be accurate to dismiss now that this would be no reaction for some time.

I'm curious to see what happens next.

uh, Moscow.

You never find this thing.

And, uh, we agree on that.

But as far as offensive things, after the, uh, then we'll talk about offensive things.

So, uh, the, uh, after the Parliament Congress, or Congress, or as when, uh, when we, uh,

He came back and said, that's what it was.

He said they wanted to discuss it with the fellows and also indicated that they would not do it because my reaction to that was that, well, he wants something.

Where do I impression him?

Who is the new boy in town?

Then he changed the letters that they agreed to and stayed with them.

Yeah.

Hell, when Faisal comes, I prefer to do that as a... Hell, I prefer to do that as a dinner.

You know what I mean?

Faisal, rather than seeing him at 11 o'clock, remember we had a problem on Friday and so forth.

Why don't you offer him, if you could, a dinner on the restaurant that's Friday night?

Was that the problem?

See if it can work out on the dinner side.

Huh?

What is more important, actually, is the summary of the man's public statement, which goes further than the letter.

It's theirs.

This is what they...

In fact, yes.

As the letter will show, and they don't want to use the word freeze publicly.

Verification, nothing else.

That is the operating paragraph.

You read this paragraph, Bill, it says, after concluding the agreement, limiting ABM systems, active negotiations aimed at an agreement, contradictory to the next paragraph.

But we are separating the problem of an agreement, limiting all access to weapons, and avoiding the law, the details, the no-i-fi-fi, and freeze to facilitate the agreement on the nation of the U.S.

is is

you see, now it is understood that the would not include possible modification or replacement.

The problem of the later problems of numbers on the business, this is for us and also for us.

or it means that we finally get some for APM.

Otherwise, we'd be giving it up.

And I think that three in-assault negotiations, which I think is not acceptable, we will limit APMs, and then after that, we will discuss the other, in other words, non-simultaneously.

What would you consider that?

We couldn't do that because technically we were going to read the letters like we, they wanted the letters, and discuss what we wanted the letters.

Now, uh, the, uh, it goes pretty far from the public statement.

The letter is not as precise as it was thought to be.

I understand that, uh, as you read the two together, at the time of reading the details of this understanding, the conclusion of the letter.

Just looking at the trail now.

When I got there, that was Monday night, or Friday, I think.

I got there in the morning.

They wouldn't see me.

Yeah, May 12th, Friday.

Ambassador Green was told.

We wanted a sentence making clear that the agreement with ADMs and the understanding to freeze offensive weapons would be concluded simultaneously, and that he had been instructed by his government to state that this was not necessary because it was fully covered by the present tax code.

And the letter, the one that we read, is not that clear and confirmed by the public release.

So they consider the public release of the letter as confirmed.

It isn't as good as we want it, but it is as good as we need it.

The proposal, I think, is through a hangout.

The proposal is through a hangout.

We should, because of the fact that this comes in infidelity, that's the reason that I have to have a mind about this.

I think not.

The way it's working, it must be, but it can't be.

Tomorrow, we can't.

I don't want to think that they are particularly...

A parable you see about them.

They say there can be no belief before us.

It says we've got the initiative to be theirs as well as ours.

And I can understand that.

They don't want them to appear to believe that we made an offering and they accept it.

So they just want the deal.

And nothing can be done today.

Nobody can be told today.

I have a vision to tell Johnson.

Due to the fact that Johnson won't have to do the lead-on to the leaders, my thought is to bring him just a big board.

Luckily, this is for reasons that go far beyond salt and paint.

You can only get a version and then the other.

And actually, now that they've been made, you might also end up getting three.

Or, I'm sorry, you might end up getting three.

We can't really hope for an overall return.

and how we continue to safeguard them.

What we need to do, in terms of does, is to focus on the offense, in the general.

Personally, I respond to what ABM has to offer.

It's the right thing on the presentation, because, frequently, ABM is something that would have to be supplemented with something new.

And, regardless of what you're reading, it's not an offensive weapon.

This is the head of the issue.

It's truly, you know, moving others with something, getting something, and stopping it.

They are moving forward.

We are not all at all.

Anyway, it's interpreted, it's going to be interpreted as being a, what it means, the shoulders, like, Chinese.

I don't know.

But what I would like to do would be to get the leaders in and say 10, 30.

Yeah, okay.

30 now.

But I've been asking him not to interfere with our situation.

Straight here.

The announcement that we've all known is that we ought to end the wheel.

I'd like to do it.

If you would, if you could, if you could talk to us this morning about it.

We can only hurry if it gets out.

We'll not do anything about it.

It's all, you know, freshness of statement.

The way it's going to happen with the Russians is for us to be indicated and not by a sanatorial action.

And we say it now, we're going to say it, and Spartanize will figure it out, being in full pregnancy.

Instead, here, after all that torture we've gone through, we had to fight to get Amy out in the first place.

We had to fight last year to keep her from getting killed.

We have very little time.

I haven't seen it.

That's not their problem.

But they want to make an agreement.

If it's up here in, say, June or July of next year, that would give us a double kickoff.

Besides, I don't see any reason to have one either.

They're going to hang on to it at least, that's for sure.

I think it's a rush to whip them off.

That's more than it would be with a theater company.

Yeah.

We may have to capture the thing.

If I can capture the security console, they don't have to.

We don't, they don't want to tell anymore in advance.

Any other, we've got to tell them that one at 2 o'clock.

No, that's it.

Because there's no need for it.

You know, I think it's pretty obvious.

It's pretty obvious.

He's, uh, he's, uh, he survived.

That's the one thing I didn't want to say.

Uh, and...

But I think the main thing is, the main thing is the Israeli must be told in June.