Conversation 517-012

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He said a very interesting thing.

He said, you know, I've been dealing with Mr. Martin.

He said he's a mind of a man.

But he's an old man.

He's not old in years, but old in spirit.

That is the, that's the death of the lamb, and one of the accountants of the Bible, by the library.

The situation in the state, they started writing to me when Peterson went through the sales tax, the income tax, and the Lord was in touch with me and saying, you've got to come back.

Yeah, unfortunately.

Now, it looked like Wesley definitely would run for

He may have aspirations, but he's true.

He's been in the party of the governor twice.

His problem is the number one fight with Loeb over the state's sales tax.

Then he broke a pledge.

He made a pledge to the people of New Hampshire.

No sales tax, no income tax.

And two weeks after he was re-elected governor with a minority vote, he came out for a sales tax.

So we'll try to impeach him.

So now you can find it.

So how do you handle it?

Well, I'll hold the game.

First of all, I would say this.

Politically, actually, you have my best wishes for whatever you want to undertake.

Second, just as a friend, I want to be sure you run at the right time.

Third, I realize you can't wait too long.

You can't wait forever.

You've been in the wings a long time.

And for it, if you do run, you've got to recognize the fact that you might not make it.

If you don't, that doesn't bother me a damn bit.

In hell, you at least have had your crack.

But I'd like to have it.

I think you ought to try to do it in a way that you can get an airplane.

What's your judgment, Harry?

Do you analyze the state at all?

Well, I'll listen to the messages now, Mr. President.

And that is he's going to check it out.

And if it doesn't work out, you check it before.

Let me say it.

You check it.

Now, Bob, if you go, you don't really go.

You've got to go with the guts.

You've got to go.

That's maybe one where they like a guy that will step up there.

And that's why they have their primary.

They want you to get in there and fight like hell.

Who?

You think you'd have a primary with a damn house?

I don't want you to do that.

Don't do that.

You have people who treat you so bad.

Oh, terrible.

I would make the promise, provided he's quiet.

If I made a deal with Wesley Powell, the state would run me over the border to Canada.

I've talked to Louie Winery, and you know Louie is a loyal friend of yours.

What's he want?

Louie wants to be in the United States Senate, but he knows he can't challenge Weston Pollard.

And he knows he can't.

He won't never.

They're all afraid of Pollard.

Pollard will get 20,000 votes.

Well, you remember you used to say that, but do you think he still has?

He couldn't deliver Rockingham County to Mel Thompson in the last governor's race in 1970, which shows he's had a falling off.

But what he will do, if I run for governor and I don't make a deal with him, he will run two or three other candidates and siphon off the votes.

And I come from the northern part of the state that doesn't have a large population.

I've got to carry Manchester or I'm dead.

And that's Democrat.

And that's also Bill Lowe.

And Bill Lowe, if Bill is for you, as he's Bill Lowe, wrote me a letter and said, I'll support you at the United States Senate if you'll come.

that he's going to support Powell for the United States Senate.

I went to see Bill and said, what about the letter?

He said, well, Powell's here.

He's on the scene.

He's got guts.

He's a fighter.

And he said he'll take McIntyre to Clemens.

I said, all right, Bill.

What do you got in mind?

He said, I'll support you for governor.

But what I don't want to do is make any deal with Loeb, because Loeb is too flexible with the truth.

And also, he's better with you than also that could drag you down, too.

If he's for you, you're dead.

If he's against you, you've got problems.

But I'm trying to sort it out, sir, and what I'll do is this, is keep Harry informed of what I find when I see Thompson and King given 1,800 votes being governor, who made the damn fool mistake of running on the Liberty ticket against Peterson after he lost in the Republican primary.

He lost 1,800 in the overall election, so he pulled quite a substantial vote.

Oh, in the finals, he may have lost.

Yes, sir, he did lose.

He's a Southern Democrat who came to New Hampshire, founded a publishing business.

He's got a terrific following.

He's the right of our mutual friend Barry Goldwater.

But he's got about a 30,000 backlog of votes.

I would think he'd be a...

He's more important than Powell.

He's more important than Powell in this agreement.

I'm seeing him Monday.

I'm seeing Norris after lunch today.

I've seen Louie.

We will sort it out, but the most important thing, we've all agreed, nothing will be done of responsible people like Louis Norris, Mel Thompson, myself, to your embarrassment in New Hampshire.

Now, New Hampshire, sir, this time coming up, it cannot be taken for granted because Albert Lowenstein and the Common Cause people are working that day from the Canadian border to Massachusetts.

And Lowenstein told me in Madrid not long ago, he said, we're going to get the President of the United States in New Hampshire this time.

Now, what they're doing is fooling around with the ballots in New Hampshire.

I won't bore you with the details, but Harry's got the dough on the bullets and the independents being able to vote and so on and so forth.

There are lots of new moves that need very careful analysis.

The only two politicians that can be trusted in New Hampshire are Louis Wyman and Horace Cotton as we move in this time.

Stu Lavery, as I pointed out, has lost his touch because he joined Peterson in the tax fight, and it's the kiss of death if he has anything to do with the campaign.

I hate to say that because he's an old friend.

But I would have someone in New Hampshire that is completely knowledgeable

very soon to take a reading as to what's going on.

McCloskey's in there causing trouble, Yorty's in there, the mayor of Los Angeles on the sponsorship of Lowe, Birch Bayh, Hughes, et cetera, and so forth.

And once again, this is a new profession, a new occupation.

And it's just like West Virginia.

The one that sees them last is the one that's going to get the support and the money.

situation at all oh i'm not worried about it this you're you're running it doesn't embarrass me at all so don't get this let's understand that you've got to make it you've got a plan in your own life you've got to make your own run if you decide to run hell you go throw your next man you're going to get off the boats and that's right so don't you know sir you're running doesn't embarrass me at all the only thing that i think i'm just trying to turn around

This is the tragedy.

You really ought to be in action to run for the Senate.

Why don't you run for the Senate?

You know that I went back there at Stiles' request to go run for the Senate.

The ball bounced the wrong way, and I've been on the sidelines for 10 years.

I served in the state legislature once.

It was a great experience.

I wanted to explore the governorship first, and then if Wesley comes across...

There is no one, repeat, no one, except Jimmy Cleveland, Louie Laman, and myself, who could possibly challenge McIntyre.

Now McIntyre isn't terribly bright, but that's one of the things that gets him votes in New Hampshire.

He's got lots of company.

Louie is the best candidate for the Senate as of the moment.

But he's going to run.

He's afraid of all.

The only way you can get Louie to do it is the right person to talk with him and say, Louie, this is what you've got to do.

Louie carried Max's team.

He needs to agree.

Does Louie think that Powell would run against him in a three-quarter race?

He can beat him in the primary.

Louie thinks he can beat Powell, but I'll tell you, I know Louie well enough to know that he hasn't got the gut for it.

He hates that terrific harassment that his family takes for two or three months, and he hasn't got a stomach for it.

You can beat Powell.

I can beat Powell.

I can beat Powell in the primary, but the danger of Powell, then he goes to the other side, 20,000 votes and you're gone.

So we've got some real sorting to do.

Now, the one thing that Mr. Nutter's sicker, we think he's sick in the head.

He hasn't been for years.

He is a strange fellow.

But he is a very smart cookie.

Oh, yes.

Oh, we know that.

And he's smart.

And when people are devoted to Paul, they're with him.

And they're with him for life.

The people are just...

The greatest asset he's got is his wife.

He's a lovely girl.

Just a shame that the guy got a screw loose or he didn't.

He's very high.

He would have been another Wayne Moss in the Senate, but he'd have been a folly to hear from.

When are you going to start going up at all?

I'm going up tomorrow night, sir, and I'm going to be there until next Thursday.

Now, my thought is this.

I can't do much in New Hampshire except let the boys that are working with me

projecting myself forward.

If I do anything, if I ask to come back home from Spain tomorrow, I'd be making a mistake.

I'd owe myself.

I'll come back here in September and go to the fairs, the country fairs, sir, in two weeks.

If it's a girl with you, sir, I would like to come home the latter part of November.

Then I would devote December, January, February, and March through the primary, quietly, going from town to town through the state.

Because the whole tension is going to be on the presidential primary.

And I can do the homework during that tough period of time.

Then after the presidential primary is over, you go full speed ahead towards the September primary and take your chances.

You're your primary, Mr. President.

That's right, sir.

Oh, good.

That would be fine.

So, but during that period of time, December and January, if you don't have that much work, it's fine.

We'll work our way around however you want.

But in the meantime, don't be a big concern.

As an ambassador, you've got every right to go out and play as politically as you want right now.

You know that.

Now, on your state championships, sir, around medley in your affairs, this has to be canceled.

as I mentioned, Stuart's problem.

Now, last year, there's an Italian boy there that may be better than even Louie, where Louie is an incumbent congressman.

His name is Palazzi.

John Louie.

Oh, I've heard of him.

He's a fine boy.

I know him.

He's a great friend of Governor Volcker.

And he wants to run for governor, but he's afraid he doesn't handle the English language well enough because a poor little Italian boy, who's now a very wealthy and successful Italian boy,

But I believe he's less controversial than anyone I know in the state.

And if you're looking for someone who will follow orders and not try to take over, and it's essential to have Stardust.

Stardust has a nice deal to it, and the other part of the country are putting an Italian in there.

They like him.

I mean, he can move around.

He's a bonafide Italian.

He's got the name Palazzi.

He's got a big construction company that's successful.

He's a former state general.

And he would be so honored if he was asked.

And I would have some talks with him.

Now, on Stuart, I'd make sure that we try to take care of Stuart because he was a fine fellow.

Now, the other thing is this.

I'm sure that it's about when you see John Mitchell on the scene.

I haven't planned to, but I will if I want to.

You arrange that.

You and Bob go over and have a talk with Mitchell, John Mitchell, because all of the politics I keep it over there, and tell him, just give him the same guidance you've given me.

Will you do that?

Yes, sir.

Do that.

Now, as I say, you...

Don't take the risk.

I mean, don't take the risk if you're just going to get chopped up.

But on the other hand, if you're ready to go, I've got the working clothes on the bomb.

Just go in there and knock the hell out of them.

On the question, sir, of the timing, would that be a dribble if it's November as far as they're coming back?

You name it.

It'd be November any time you want.

Thank you, sir.

Without the evidence, we've left it, I think, completely open.

In fact, I thought it was sometime at the end of the year.

They said November is fine.

As far as the situation in Spain is concerned, as I wrote in my letter, the old gentleman, when they have a war, so I'm on Monday,

of this week.

He had one of the worst days, his head.

As I've been in Spain, he looked like death warmed up.

He wasn't willing to get sun.

The day before, he was great.

He goes up and down.

What does he have?

He's got Parkinson's disease.

And also, he's recently starting to have attacks where he eats and that his digestive process doesn't work and he's not throwing up.

And the thing is here,

But nevertheless, he could go on for a long period of time.

The one thing on that Spanish situation, when you choose whoever goes over there, if it's a left-winger, it'll just kill us.

A left-winger?

Yeah, in Spain?

I mean, if you've got a... Hell no!

They play with the left, it's a kiss of death.

Hell no!

Never.

The other thing is that what we want you to leave, you must leave a good, honest staff there.

Yes, sir.

I feel free with staff.

I will.

Whoever we send, we will.

That's the thing.

I'd like for Bob to have a talk with Kissinger in this respect.

I want you to analyze your staff.

We don't want to do this to your state.

Whatever you want, we will impose your staff.

Yes, sir.

Yes, do you think they're good?

Yes, sir.

We've got a fine fellow with menace, but he's not strong enough to be chargeated there.

He'll have to go when I go.

You'd better bring the fellow in then.

that understands how the system works in Spain, that is loyal to you.

Well, and I'll make some recommendations.

We'll put it to good use.

I have an idea, Ambassador.

You, uh... Well, we really need... We haven't got a guy in the Frankie that can do it.

Ambassador John can do it.

But if you've got a stronger staff, this guy will do just what we say.

That's what I have in mind.

And he will be in our right of way.

As I said, by right-winger, I mean, he's a bit of a left-winger.

He's a moderate.

He's a moderate influence in Spain.

It's not that he's that moderate either.

No, but I mean, if the New York Times is after us, you know, morning and then night, they try to cause trouble over Admiral Morris coming for the victory parade, but they get scared off.

What they're trying to do, you see, the Russians, we know, are making a major push to try to get into Spain.

And the leftists are making a major push to try to affect the transition government if anything happens to General Franco.

And Paul Juan Carlos is just sitting there without a portfolio, a nice boy that he is, not knowing what he's fish about.

And if Franco doesn't put him on the throne, in my opinion, before Franco passes on the scene, he has major problems.

And the key to Spain's future is who's going to be the prime minister.

And at the present time, the vice president of the country, Cyril Blanco, and he's a tough, two-fisted, devoted friend of Franco's and can be depended on as a friend of the United States.

He's more than Lopez Bravo.

Lopez Bravo is the future of Spain if he would get off the kick of looking in the mirror too much.

Because he's so bright.

He's terribly bright.

Of course, Franco's a hell of an impressive fellow.

Very.

I like him.

But he took the sword.

And again, he's all right, but the unfortunate thing about Pereira Blanco, he doesn't have a spot in the high office.

He said, I'm here as long as Franco wants me to be.

And it's hard to believe it doesn't happen to the assistant.

I had identified for him the other night, and he says, you know, I can't wait until the general picks the prime minister so I can get back with my grandchildren.

Oh, gosh.

Thank you very much.

Nothing but good reports on everything you've done, Bob.

Thank you.

Nothing but good reports.

You have our support, sir.

You do.

You know that, don't you?

You know, always, always.

That's okay.

We'll see you tomorrow.