Nixon, Colson & Haldeman on Pentagon Papers and National Security

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I did the log.

I wrote the three networks.

The president sent a copy of his wedding card, which I thought that would be a nice thing to do.

Very good idea.

I sent a copy of the blind college to you.

Good.

The college was taking a night to work on this gas mine.

You see, that's...

Over here, Olson.

Yes, sir.

It's been worked on here.

Over here.

This way, this way.

I just noticed it a couple days ago.

A couple days ago?

Yeah.

I just noticed it.

You know, this has been just worked over the night.

That's not a good thing.

Olson, is there one there?

Yeah, with silver leaves.

That's a yacht.

Somebody has just come in here and just...

I think somebody here will be watching security a little.

Somebody's been here with a knife with that damn gas.

Here, over here, you see, I first looked, I said, my God, I must have done it with my shoes.

You shouldn't have done that.

Well, I don't look like this.

They are there.

These are leather.

They have no cuts.

Unless you had a nail sticking out.

I never had.

But it's cut over here.

Also, I don't look like this.

Look at it here, though.

You wouldn't get a cut.

Got shit here.

Yeah, well, these are cunts, too.

See, this gas is totally finished.

I've never noticed these cunts before.

These are cunts.

They don't move like that.

This is some of this stuff.

Well, anyway, what else is going on?

Well, we're working, Mr. President, on getting the, uh, what do you call it?

Oh, yeah, let's see.

Let me ask, uh, I think we ought to do it as a matter of fact, for their own sake, a long story here.

I think it's a hell of a good show.

I, I talked to Gulf, who sponsored the NBC, uh, which I could talk to securely because their, their man here is totally loyal to us.

He thought it was a great idea to put it, try to put it together.

So much to say that the hell of a lot of people are interested.

Is that what you told them?

Yes, sir.

And they were very pleased.

He said that they're helping to advise the man from the parents.

It's perfectly, uh, justifiable.

Yeah.

The rerun, the summer's, you can credit that thing, you know.

The summer month's coming.

It'll be a great summer rerun.

We've urged that they push it to next week while it's still going to be done.

And I owe you back, I hope, before the end of the day.

Good.

Push to get it out.

I noticed your suggestion about your young man.

Why don't you just bring him in?

All right.

I wonder if you shouldn't have him in.

Thank you.

He would, he'd love it.

That'd be better than a phone call.

I think so, I think so.

Just bring him in, I'll spend ten minutes with him.

He went back to San Antonio yesterday, and...

You're discouraged.

Well, he's just a very idealistic kid.

Well, the Cabot show, he should know it was a hell of a plus for him, going on.

But the audience believed in that sort of stuff.

Well, the audience cheered the other veterans who were around him, who were Cabot.

Cabot interrupted them consistently, and every time he tried to make a point, Cabot would stop him.

He's a... What the hell is Cabot?

Oh, Christ, he's... God, he's...

He's terrible?

He's...

It's impossible.

He loads every program automatically.

Nothing you can do about it on this, sir.

We've complained bitterly about the cabinship.

I noticed.

I would have known, I guess, about the maturity and the wealth of the cabins.

Nothing you can do.

He would not disclose who was going to be on it.

It was originally to be a Kerry-O'Neill debate.

And that was where he put up their song.

Well, sir, anyway, we could screw it.

That's what I mean.

There must be ways.

We've been trying to.

ABC takes...

He's in a peculiar position in the news department.

He doesn't consider it a news show.

It's an entertainment show.

No, it's an ABC show.

ABC.

Captain's ABC, is there?

No, we've got to get it.

And they... Well, we'll let it go.

What else is... What about your...

I, uh...

Uh...

I think you ought to figure out what the line is.

We're going to play a very hard line on the New York Times.

This is a practice thing about national security.

Of course, it's the old business about, suppose it had been World War II, and suppose it had been hell in Korea.

But Jesus Christ, I mean, you don't, this is a reckless breach of security.

You can't allow it.

That's all there is to it.

We're going to fight it even though it escalates the problem.

We're going to escalate the coverage.

So, all right, the main thing is that you've got to, they've got to emphasize to our people that this is a family quarrel of the previous administration.

Right.

And nothing to do with us.

Well, if nothing happens in 1968, then we're not going to get in.

We're not going to comment.

On the other hand, the principle of disclosure of classified information is not a matter of quorum.

That involves nations.

We've got to fight right against them.

And I'm going to have to face the goddamn times.

Well, I mean, you couldn't hit him hard enough as far as I'm concerned.

I think it happened.

I think that escalating it is not too bad in the sense that it's going to be a story of a reign.

in another sense, that it makes, it permits you to accentuate the point that it is a federal quarrel.

It had nothing to do with us.

We're not involved, provided we got it across as a matter of national security.

Well, Bob was saying, you know, that McCloskey and these other people are all saying, well, this is what this administration is doing.

Well, let's put it another way, Bob.

Why don't we just say Johnson lied us into war and Nixon's lying us out?

No, really.

Put it right out.

No, I think you've got to be careful not to take Johnson off.

But basically, I feel for him.

I swear I didn't go out and tell the press.

Here in the White House, about time he faced the White House press corps.

You see, Go Water is a beautiful position.

It shows that he was a big hero.

Johnson, by God, was live.

He's already been on television.

I know, but he didn't go on again.

And he could say, I'm shocked at this, and I appear to say that I do not, I take no comfort in having, as the line should be used, in having my, the security of my country so in peril by this reckless disclosure of classified information.

And also, it's only part of it, and of you, of a few left-wing bastards

I'll tell you one thing.

Nothing's ever going to be disclosed throughout here anymore.

Nothing's ever going to go to the State Department or the Defense Department on this office.

Never.

I don't trust them.

Hell, if they let files out like that, or if they actually went to work and put those files together, I know it would be possible that the content files would be taken out if they gave you a bunch of assignments.

I don't believe that the

I don't believe there's anything to lose in fighting the New York Times.

The constituency of the New York Times is never going to be with us.

You know, their constituency is not also the one the press relates to.

Nevertheless, we're going to fight it right down to the core.

Yeah, but you're not fighting them now on the question of freedom of the press.

You're fighting them on the question of violating the Constitution.

It's not a secret, but it's got to be done.

I don't know what's going to be done, but I think that I'd like to see some Congress call for an investigation.

That's the place to do it.

Get it on there in Congress.

Get them under oath.

There are three factors that could have done it.

It's yell, yell, warn, or help.

Call them all in.

Put them under oath.

Make the sons of patients say, did we or didn't you do it?

Newsweek magazine, Washington had it till the scouting this morning.

that they are 80% certain they know who leaked the documents and how.

And that if they can establish one more appointment, they will print it next week if they can.

They'd like to do it in the times.

See, they're all competitive, Bob.

Well, there it is.

Is there any other dirty names you're up to that I should know about?

I don't want to play you names.

We've been doing quite a bit in the mailing front, too.

The president is a

Kept by the guys, I think.

Because you, Scott, told me that he'd taken on Teddy again.

Yes, he did.

Come on, think about it.

Teddy would have taken on my...

I thought the fact that I was hiding behind my religion or something.

Quit your... You've got to remind me.

The way Teddy has used that capital business, Jesus Christ.

What the hell is he up to?

Why is he set up as a... Building his credibility as a presidential candidate.

Huh?

field his credibility as a presidential candidate by tracking you on the sheriff's police.

Rumstead is ignoring all of his Democratic contenders and pulling himself out of the field by taking on Nixon.

Rumstead may have a chance to take him on today.

Kennedy is speaking at the J.C.'s annual convention in Oregon.

Rumstead follows him.

And we've mailed out Kennedy's statement and Humphrey's answer to all the

daily all across the country about Bill and Senator this weekend.

I think it will encourage some editorials, because if you read the actual colloquy on the floor, it's just...

I've heard about the J.C.s, though, but I'll have to... Oh, well, Rumsfeld won't take them on.

He doesn't understand the war issue.

We'll take them on in the statement of prolonging the war deliberately for political gain.

I don't know what will happen to the J.C.s, but they have a little

protest of sorts organized when Kennedy speaks because of this statement.

Which hopefully will enable us to escalate things a bit.

I think he's going to regret that statement.

I think that's a political excess that can bounce back.

I haven't seen the editorial sheet.

No.

But they'll come.

They'll come.

There hasn't been time for the editorials, really.

Yeah.

Because the ones that you'll get will be from the small, you know, from around the country.

You won't get an editorial.

He is certainly banging around.

Technical Kennedy style.

He's locked up the Massachusetts building.

Yeah, I understood that.

It's a very clever move.

What's Muskie doing?

Losing his staff.

I mean, broke.

Nothing new on that.

What about Hubert?

Hubert's talking tough, too, isn't he?

He really was tough on Sunday.

He hit you very hard and backed away from his criticism.

He tried to back away from his criticism of Kennedy.

They didn't let him.

Oh, is that right?

Well, he's still quite smart.

He's sort of sticking to you on foreign policy a little bit.

A little.

And talking the bejesus out of you on the economy.

Sure.

And it's a good line.

Whatever boom that Humphrey had going is probably shot out of the saddle by the New York Times.

Oh, my God, he's up on the hill today saying that he didn't know anything about it, had never seen the documents, knew nothing about it.

He's always been saying that.

Oh, I know.

But he's vice president.

He can't do something.

Huh?

He can't.

He can't shake that off.

You don't think so?

I mean, he can cry.

He can say it.

I don't give him credit.

He can shake it off.

The problem he gets is in the process of doing it, he totally alienates the Johnson.

What there is is a Johnson wing of the party.

Johnson, which is a part of his strength in the party.

The guy I'm becoming increasingly worried about is Scoot Jackson.

He is.

I don't know whether you saw that Evans and Novak piece yesterday, but it was right on, except that they left out the biggest power block he's got, which was organized lately.

If you add that to what they, I don't know if you should get it, but all they did, they were saying he could easily pick up border states like Tennessee, and I agree, and Florida, and primaries, build some momentum and get some national recognition, and go into the convention with a solid block of

He has this problem.

Jackson invites what Kennedy would not.

There has to be a vote in favor of Jackson.

There would not be necessarily Kennedy.

See Kennedy, that's where Kennedy would be dangerous.

Kennedy would preempt the left and the center.

You see, how the hell are they going to get to the left of Kennedy?

See, that's what Kennedy's doing, blocking out the third party.

I'm going to block this nut, but he could probably stop it.

But Jackson will break a whole party on a rail, because Jackson, like anything on many Soviet relations, is going to be in a harder line of position than I am.

That's what I think.

I agree that he's more credible as a candidate.

I think the rest was he made a better president.

So that's where his strength is.

You know, he drained off some of our national strength.

Well, that's not it.

That's right.

On the other hand, he had to lose his own base.

He's not the Democrat.

No, I wouldn't think so.

I'd let it go.

It's just, like you said, the more the merrier.

I think the best thing is to have him on the fight.

Chris, I'm pulling like hell for Teddy Kennedy.

I just think Chappaquiddick is insurmountable.

You do?

I had it rerun, Mr. President, on television yesterday, the statement he made after the...

Remember when he came on and spoke to the mayor about it?

And he used a line in there, which I'd forgotten about, but a political friend of mine reminded me of, that in my anguish and in the crisis, many emotions...

I was overcome by emotions.

Grief, doubt,

They use the word panic, which is politically devastating.

If that tape were rerun in any context in a political campaign, it would just be murder.

Well, it will have a hell of an effect.

There's no question about it.

But it would be quite a battle.

It's quite obvious this fellow is a desperate guy who lied to do anything.

But you'd have to play it.

It would be the most vicious campaign in history.

It would be a very tough campaign.

You'd have to play it very tough against him.

Just, I say the opposite any chance I get, but I'm convinced that Jeff would put it with Peter.

Well, everybody should worry about all of them.

Yeah.

Buchanan had, must be nominated in January, and now who's the nomination?

The candidate.

The candidate, because he doesn't think he's the candidate now.

That's what I think.

I, however, think that Hubert is the one that they come around to.

Except Hubert has a problem.

My God, he looks so bad.

Hubert is, you know, there's something that happens as we can't bring him across.

But what do you think?

He just looks, looks about and, you know, he sounds dead.

But I know he looks better.

He's got a hair and all.

Well, I'll tell you what, that's what I meant.

The physical appearance.

There's a certain virus in this.

You don't have to be handsome.

He already had some in the campaign.

But now the hair is dyed.

His face is sallow.

His weight problem, he's apparently going up and down.

Therefore, he hangs more than he used to.

And I think he just has a hell of a time.

He just looks like a goddamn freak.

You know?

What do you think?

Well, he's got the

propensity for overplaying everything.

He overdone it.

He's great at exaggerating.

God, he's incredible.

He, uh, at the gridiron club, I'll never forget, he remained standing after all the applause stopped and kept on waiting.

Just a pitiful sight.

The guy, Ritter, the gridiron club, when he got there, he stood up and when the applause had died down and stopped, he was still standing there waiting.

The lights went off and he was still waiting.

I mean, that's just it.

Well, I just play all games now, and, uh,

I think we're doing, we're on the right track, don't you think?

Yes, sir.

I do.

A few little political things that we'll be doing.

Oh, yes.

But I think the summer is a damn good time to just, we'll have to move along in a cool manner.

I think after this, sir, people will get terribly tired of it.

The other side had started much too early for their own sake.

Thank you, Mike.

First of all, it looks like they were running sometimes over.

These are cuts.

These in here are just straight cuts.

You can feel it.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you, sir.

Nixon, Colson & Haldeman on Pentagon Papers and National Security

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on June 15, 1971

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