Conversation 521-008

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Well, over the work, I, uh, I, uh,

I would love to see Frank Shakespeare.

He thinks he's got someone, Frank Stanton.

He's a good producer.

Frank Shakespeare comes from CBS.

He should know how to get at it.

Just keep the heat on him.

You keep the heat on him.

Watch the other ones.

If you watch the movies, tell somebody.

He said I'd have him there within 48 hours.

I'm going back tonight because I have a thing happening tomorrow.

One thing, Mr. President, I think that's something that made a big mistake.

Uh, send a message?

Uh, yeah.

That's it.

And I believe it.

Yes, sir, it did.

Both of them almost went back and back.

You know, that's all I know.

Why do you think that you, as an ambassador, can't send a message?

I sent a secret notice to the President of the United States and the Secretary of State.

And now I'm in the Senate to change it.

What do you think?

Again, I'm not... You know, this is my...

This is my...

It's the most reckless, irresponsible thing 100% of newspapers do.

Now you can't say, well, it's a news story.

Now listen here, printing top secret information.

I don't care how they feel about the war, whether they're for it or against it, Susan Cannon should not do it.

It's an attack on the integrity of government.

And by God, I'm going to fight that son of a bitch in favor.

Come hell or high water, I have already.

I have all my capacity.

They don't know what's going to hit them now, though.

We're going to fight them down the wire.

Mr. President, I have no vendetta for anybody.

I'm only working for you, sir, and I'm going to do the best I can.

But I want to just make one point on this oil situation.

The Algerian oil thing, you know, it's the only thing that's going to make it.

It's the only thing that's going to make it.

And what we're doing, if we get down there as a nation, this will be the first time in our history, as far as I can tell, that we have ever agreed to buy petroleum raw material from a source that has been expropriated and for which proper compensation hasn't been paid to the former owners.

Wait a minute.

Who's doing this?

We are.

We have written, the State Department has written a letter blessing the loan which held Hudson...

put in for use on the East Coast.

The Ex-Im Bank has gotten a letter from the State Department.

There's no international relations repercussions.

It's OK.

The French did not object.

This was the original margin of that case.

And in the course, very cordial, in the course of the conversation, I said, Mr. President Pompidou, he said, now, he said, we can't put pressure on you because what you do in Algeria is all right.

But we backed you in the OPC, the Gulf State negotiation, and stuck with you when we could have given the order to the Algerians and bought it back.

But I changed my mind.

I defeated them.

I didn't refuse them.

Now, he said, if, without my putting pressure on it, if you could delay this until we get our consent, it will be very helpful to us in our negotiations.

And this was the message I sent back.

Then this thing came out in the press, and the first thing he said, how could you betray my conscience?

That's the first question.

The second thing, and that's the end of it.

I think it's the case that I got it.

I think it's a question, in my judgment, where the African desk was so anxious to get a relationship material.

It has not gone through yet.

What is it?

The letter has gone to the Ex-Im Bank.

And, uh...

I didn't see such a letter.

We didn't approve of your decision.

This was the State Department's letter that went... You know what I mean?

I sent a letter to the Department.

Let me say this.

You say, was this expropriated?

And compensation was not provided?

One-eighth of what they, they gave one-eighth of what they asserted.

A hundred million, about seventy-eight hundred.

And they did.

And the French did it.

And the French don't like it.

No, and yet they don't want to put pressure on us.

But my point is, my point is, they didn't expropriate it, did not compensate it.

If I were any clearer about that, is that absolutely clear?

This is a goddamn, I told that, I told that in that matter, I guess, and a Latin American that said it.

That's the one thing.

I mean, if they expropriate and pay, that, I suppose, is right.

I don't agree with that.

But nevertheless... You can't fight that one.

That's what I mean.

I don't agree with it, but I mean, I could go along.

But if they expropriate and don't pay, we are not going to give a copper to those bastards.

Well, I'm glad... Now, we've got to... Would you...

I don't mean... Henry may be fighting some game here.

No, I talked to Henry, Mr. President, and he's completely in agreement with that.

He's all out this deal?

Uh-uh.

What I mean is that... What I mean is, did Henry know?

No, no, no, sir.

Because I talked to him this morning about it, and that's the only reason I wanted to ask about it.

Not because I have an undenial, but...

I understand.

You stay out of it.

I just want to know what the facts are.

God damn it, they should have not done it.

Why would they leave this?

Who in the hell would leave it?

That's the reason.

You said it was leaked.

Well, it came out in the Maund paper.

from your office?

Not possible, because only I know.

I need to, I really got to know about this.

I want to know, I want to know who the hell it went to.

I believe that my employees, I am not going to approve any loan to any company.

I know El Paso Gas is a good company.

God damn it, I may let them make their profit somewhere else.

And, of course, as you know better than I, Mr. President... You know what?

If they do go over there, they'll expropriate them.

Well, that's number one.

And number two was to prevent the Saudi Arabs from expropriating Iran.

And they'll pay them one-eighth of what it's worth and then say, well, you did it now.

Gee, here's what I came to do.

You see, this is a violation of something I've laid down earlier on this expropriation.

I know how the State Department feels.

The State Department doesn't give a damn about expropriation.

They're all like goddamn socialists in that African desk.

But I'm not.

And I've got as long as I'm here, we're not going to have this sort of thing.

That's all there is to it, Mr. President.

That's the story.

The poor man on this side, Jim Higgins, D-A-K-K-I-N-S, who's their speciality in oil, and this is the part where he fought a losing fight, and he feels the way I do.

We fight over the African density.

The African desk, and I don't know who else.

Unbelievable.

Well, the one implying point is we cannot look as though we are knuckling under French pressure.

No, that's why your letter had to be in confidence.

I know that.

And that is what I was asking.

No, I'm not making this decision.

I would not make this decision on the basis of what Papa Lucero did to say.

That's it.

But the reason that I would make this decision is because I do not, I am not willing to approve anything which encourages

expropriation without their compensation.

Now that's it.

No action this government will encourage appropriating without active compensation.

And that's got to go all the way up to the line.

And so I want to be sure that if you would, would you also make a few follow-ups on this?

I want to be sure that he can break the terms of my line.

Thank you very much.

How's it going otherwise?

Well, we'll be in by year end.

I got a new man.

Yes, sir.

We're scraping the barrel.

I got Bill Burden over there.

Bill Burden?

Nancy's taking him through it.

I think she's taking him through it today, hopefully.

We need some money.

Okay, sir.

And I can't go out and ask for it directly, but... Well, he's a good citizen.

Yes, we have him for dinner.

I must say the other thing, just in the past,

Don't be too worried that occasionally the French seem a little more independent, because the Russians are coming to town in October, and the tide's going out, and once they leave, they'll come back into the crowd.

I don't, uh, I don't expect you to play the role.

Well, get Bill, uh, when you get older, if he leaves, he's getting out of private.

Yes, sir.

I mean, he's having it back in the embassy.

I don't think he's doing it well.

He's certainly not.

I mean, he doesn't have to do this kind of stuff, so you do.

I'll get him.

Listen, you're terrific, and I agree.

I didn't relate to the French, and I spent time with those people.

And I was just sick and tired of them saying, I just want to say, you know, I'm not as skeptical as I can be.

And I came back absolutely convinced that you're doing the only sensible possible wise thing there is to do when you're completely in your corner.

I would urge some of the other fellows...

Or is it not?

They've already had him burned.

I think some of the other key ambassadors would do well to just kill him like that.

I went to Lundham and I went to Galleon.

Right.

You have to be up to a long, long, long path.

So now, when something comes up, I say you're wrong.

I see.

Stay with us.

All right.

OK.

Thanks a lot.

We'll see.