Conversation 523-004

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But I think we got ourselves four months, which is what we need.

This is actually less than our embassy recommended.

They wanted 70.

After July 1st and 25 now.

around the 70s, 70s, but I just think it's as well-loved French and the Germans, and I think she, geez, in the name of God.

Yeah, but here is that bleeding heart, friend.

You were absolutely right.

He had been here, whining around and lecturing us about Vietnam and lecturing us about Pakistan, you know.

In effect, lecturing us.

And what the hell are they doing?

They're richer than we can be.

They could have their dollars stronger.

They have all this money.

They've got a class down there.

What in the hell are they doing?

And the goddamn Indians, what are the Russians doing this time?

How much?

Compared to us, that's my point.

He should do it according to his GNP.

No, I think the Russians are putting in commensurate to ours in terms of GNP.

They've put in quite a bit.

Because the Russians...

He threw that up to us.

They've made statements.

How much are they putting in?

I think that was what was beautiful, because if you put up the money, they get the statement, but they'd rather have statements.

I mean, he didn't say it that way, but that was it.

Here they are, the French adjournment of the statement.

He said Willie Brown has made a good statement and so forth, which I think really exposed it, because it unmatched it.

Because in effect, they said, what do you want?

You want it to be independent?

No, that's up to them to decide.

But what he really wanted is to have Willie Brown make a statement condemning the Indian-Pakistan conflict.

Absolutely.

What they're doing now is there is a conspiracy of the left around the world.

If it's Greece or Pakistan, if it's what they consider a right-wing military dictatorship, the Russians can go into Czechoslovakia and two years later, there's the biggest detente you've ever seen.

No one says, how can you make a deal with such tyrants?

I think Mr. President you are emerging, you are now the

the strongest leader and... You know, getting back to Trump, he was really a terrible boy, probably.

Firstly, with that, he was, he's doing something that he ought to be doing.

And if a gentleman's got some underpinning problems, he ought to stay the hell out of India and Pakistan.

He ought to stay the hell out of other things.

Or say it in Pond.

Why the hell, for all he knows, Mr. President, you have your own problems in India and Pakistan, as indeed you do.

It's totally inappropriate if you started holding his feet

On a whole range of foreign policy issues in Bonn, everyone would say how inappropriate that is.

I suppose I could go over there and start talking about our problems in Mexico and Nicaragua.

Well, these still would be your problems, but supposing you talked about Poland and Czechoslovakia, who are countries closer to them with whom they have relationships.

It was totally inappropriate.

No, he wasn't that bad, really, except that he just seemed to be dumb and presumptuous.

Well, he wrote it for his own people.

Well, I gave far hell.

I said quite frankly, a number of people, I've asked people, and their reaction was, I can't touch it.

But a number of people said they thought it was not appropriate in the presence of the Democratic Senate majority leader and a lot of others to be so relatively cool about the president not to say any graceful things and to say things which unintentionally give the impression that you were slapping at the Vietnam policy.

And as far as India and Pakistan is concerned,

that it's just a very delicate matter which we should each do separately.

Well, he said he was shocked.

He was amazed that anyone could interpret this, and he said that every other public statement now is going to be carefully scrutinized with that in mind.

And they need us badly enough.

Well, run the trouble.

He is right in that if he dies, or when he dies, or if the Social Democratic Party would split up, from that point of view, he's right.

He's the only one that they can all agree on.

As between him and the Christian Democrats, unfortunately, if we get him the Berlin Agreement, his chances rise.

That is the one price.

But then let's see what the Russians are coming up with if they kick us in the teeth on the summit.

our incentives go down again.

Although it is a pretty, the reason we're actually helping him is because it's a pretty good agreement we're getting.

And for us to turn it down, if it were a lousy agreement, we could turn it down on substance.

You know what's an interesting thing?

That was such an obvious question for me to ask.

You know, it occurred to me, you know, I had the Indian men know it.

I said, how much did the Germans give you?

Yeah.

How much did the French give you?

Enough that no one had asked you.

No, no, no.

Nobody knew.

I mean, Cisco said, well, not enough.

Well, what the hell?

You should know exactly what they're giving you.

And this business of the United States around the world where everything happens and we all are caught up and the rest of them don't.

The hell with them.

I mean, show the French concern about India and Pakistan.

That's cheating.

The French are taking a free ride on every embarrassment in the world.

Huh?

The French are taking a free ride on every embarrassment.

That's where they're playing it.

The Mideast is there.

And the Germans, Jesus, they should say the hell out of you.

Well, the worst tragedy is that election in 69 was a disaster because the three Democrats, if this national party, that extreme right-wing party, had got three-tenths of one percent more, the Christian Democrats would not be in office because their votes were, if they were just below five percent, which meant their votes were lost.

and were distributed to the other parties.

I think that it's a mistake to let any people come in here and just moan over it.

It's good for people to fall asleep.

Oh, Mr. President, it was a great opportunity.

Oh, no, no.

I mean, what was so effective on this was that it was a strong combination of things that are really the same.

Thank you.

I didn't think that I would get here to thank you for the fact that I'm in the apartment.

Because the fact of the matter is that I told John... Oh, I guess we all missed.

Well, Ben, no, no, no, Ben Regan.

Ben Regan talked to you, and you...

And Bill is, Bill, you and Els McLaughlin are the ones that sponsored me.

And Bill Els was inside down at the time.

I never got to thank you personally, but I'd never be there.

I think you've got a beautiful home here.

I can't duplicate that it's made possible for me to be on the floor wall.

And it's kind of, and it was very funny because one time I came up in the elevator and that Irish elevator man is still talking about you, you know, the one from Ireland.

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

And I saw your daughter coming down, and I don't know if David was there, but, you know, I used to go to school with John.

And I'll never forget the fact that when I was at that time, my wife used to go up to West Point because he had a little place right outside the gate.

And Bob would go shopping one day at Piazza.

And John was left with little David crawling under the table.

And I remember that like yesterday.

Sure.

And all of a sudden, he had to run.

And John didn't know what to do about it.

He didn't know how to change his life or how to...

Mr. President, I know you're very busy.

I'm pleased that you could see me.

I received a letter that was delivered to me from President Malachi and the Dominican Republic.

I realize that this is not unusual.

I know that these things usually go through diplomatic channels, and I think there are sometimes situations where the straight way and the right way under certain circumstances can be helpful.

I would like, and I appreciate that this letter is a letter that you wrote to me in Spanish, but there's an English translation with it.

And if you could look at it for a minute, Mr. President, I would appreciate it very much, because I think it will give you some gist of what this is all about.

The other one is the original, and that's the copy.

The original in Spanish.

Well, this is not the house where we are.

The reason that I asked you to see me is because, obviously, for this personality, it has a name.

and to one of my top people, if it would be possible for me to convey that letter to you in an informal manner.

I would like to make some comments about this and explain why a letter like this should come this way.

We became interested in that situation in 1966 when we acquired South Wailika Sugar Company, which had large sugar holdings and land holdings in Florida and was the largest American company in the Caribbean.

I believe it is the largest company in the Western Hemisphere today, employing 20,000 people in it.

Mr. President, let me tell you one thing, if I may.

In 1966, 67, when we got into that picture, the Dominican Republic in that area, the whole Dominican Republic, was in such a state of turmoil.

Castro had sent his agents over there.

Even after the act, after the revolution and all the disorders that they had, President Johnson sent in the Greens at that time.

The country did not settle down.

Our sugar plantations there, and our chemical plants, were in complete disarray.

The company was not only losing money, but effectively we employed 600 policemen that on our purvey role, they were completely leftist dominated, all the way.

We could not get any water, Mr. President.

People were being shot.

People were being killed.

No sugar was being cut.

Nothing was being ground up.

The country was in a chaotic state of dilemma.

People said, well, you know, Charlie, you're facing, there's no chance with this type of a situation.

That company's going the way of awnings companies.

At that time, we brought in a young team,

of men who were mostly of Latin American origin, some American citizens, but some of Cuban extraction, particularly one young man who had been a bitter enemy of Castro, had fled Cuba as a young fellow, a brilliant young man, a dedicated fellow, a hardworking man,

who was not afraid, not a bit afraid, because I must tell you, Mr. President, to take that job at that time meant the distinct possibility of being shot in the back anymore.

That's the type of a situation it was.

I remember going down there.

It looked like a place of siege.

The man who ran our operation, Mr. President, it looked like he was a governor of a place because he had, like the White House, got boxes with people right out there.

I can tell you that...

I've made many mistakes in building my company.

I've done some good things, but there isn't a single thing that I'm more proud of than what we have done in that place because I'm not afraid to have anybody

and everybody come down there today and see that this is almost a model of good enterprise, very shape and form.

One of the first things I did was I went down to the Dominican Republic and I went to see President Valleguer and I had an interpreter with me and he started to translate.

And I said, Mr. President, I'd rather not translate, I'd rather talk to you.

And I began to talk to him in a combination of French, Spanish, Portuguese that I picked up and I started to tell him, look,

We're not the ugly Americans.

We didn't come here to take everything away from you.

We want to try to build up this country to help you.

to build back the sugar operation, to build up your chemicals, to try to diversify, to put in a zone to manufacture other things.

That is the free enterprise system which I believe in as an American and which I think works not better, but is not comparable to what is going on next door in Cuba under Mr. Castro's beautiful rule.

And he said to me, Mr. Bluton, we've got confidence in you.

I like your spirit.

We're going to work with you.

I brought in this young Cuban at that time who has since worked very closely with President Balaguer and got his complete confidence.

Mr. President, I can tell you this.

This is not a question of just waving the flag.

I had John Young Yelly, who is the chairman of the board of the Fiat Company over there, and he went down there because he was living.

He said, John, I'd like to see you go down to the Dominican.

I said, all right.

And he came back and he said, my goodness.

He said, this is incredible.

This is fantastic.

And really, it is something that you've got to see how the place has been transformed.

Mr. President, last year, that place...

was the highest producing sugar population in the world.

In a year when capsule could not meet his quarters even remotely as far as the Soviet Union was concerned, that particular place there not only produced more than had ever been produced in the history of the country, but in the history of any operation of this type.

But we did more than that.

In arrangement with the Dominican government, we went forward.

We put in a plan to manufacture cigars because we have the largest cigar operation in the world.

So here we went and I said, let's divert some of our operations.

This is a friendly company.

So we built a plant there.

We are putting in a plant for automotive plants that we're doing together with General Motors and with Ford.

We talked to Henry Ford about it.

We're tangibly trying to do things.

And it is really a showcase.

We are now putting in a hotel with a golf course.

We even took one of the old railroads because we have 300 miles of railroad going around those 300,000 acres.

We have a private jet airport there with customs and everything.

It's like a country by itself almost, but it's not run like an American compound, you see.

It's run by them.

And yet, let me tell you something.

I talked to Jim Walsh and Helen Waters and I talked to Henry Ford about maybe putting in an assembly plant there.

Because I feel we have to do some of these things.

Well, it's not a big enough thing for them.

I then said to Johnny, I'm yelling, Johnny, listen, you've got to do me a favor and you've got to put in a beer assembly plant.

He said, please, Charlie, don't bother me with these things.

I don't want to put in beer plants anymore.

I've got enough troubles in Tulane, I've got nothing but strife.

I said, look John, don't argue with me, you've got to do it for me.

So I called the President of Pearson and he decided to do it.

He made up a big plan to send people around to work it all out.

Mr. President, we sent in the plan, which was a plan where we would invest all the money in the plant and do all of these things ourselves.

We were not taking the money out of the Dominican.

And President Balaguer turned it down.

He said, I can't do this.

How can I permit the Italians to come in here and assemble any cars?

This is completely out of question because

My friends, and I say this on my children's head, my friends and I, I'm not going to antagonize in any shape, form, or manner, even with immobility, our relationship with our commercial affairs with the United States, because we deal with them, we don't want to give preferences in any way to the economists.

The reason I tell you that little story is because I thought in that particular way I was helping him.

But this man is fresh.

I have seen things happen to you, seen more things than me happen in your lifetime.

But up to this point, and I'm here to tell you this, that man...

has been for the United States and for President Richard Nixon what Fidel Castro is for President in Moscow.

That I can tell you.

And I felt so strongly about it when I received this letter.

I know how busy you gentlemen are.

I was reluctant to call John, but I had to call him because I had to convey the letter personally and to say to you.

That Latin America is in a tremendous turmoil.

I know you were always interested, Mr. President.

We've got a situation with Chile.

We've got a situation with Peru.

We've got situations with Bolivia.

Now...

The question of the sugar situation, which concerns President Valerie, I can understand very clearly.

Let us be clear that we have a great sugar interest, and our 100,000 shareholders would certainly be greatly affected to what happens to the Dominican Republic.

But Mr. President, Peru, which has expropriated our properties, which has expropriated our properties, properties of American citizens and American companies,

They have been rewarded in this act by a very small deduction.

Bolivia, under this act, agreed with the past and are being increased.

Now I ask you,

We, speaking, and I've discussed this with John a number of times, I believe that American industry today has the most serious problem to compete with the Japanese and the Germans.

The Japanese working together in cartels, cooperating with their government, and I know, John knows this is my favorite line, but it's true, have beaten us many times out of our particular...

method of being able to compete with them.

I have said in a slightly joking way that I wish the President of the United States would lease Mr. McLaren to the Japanese to become Minister of Justice for one or two years because why can't they have him too for a change?

Now, I want to say this, because, and I say this with all respect and only with humor, because I'm not interested in acquisitions today.

What I am concerned about is this.

We're competing with the Germans, we're competing with the Japanese.

Now, if in countries where American firms are to invest, where there's a vested interest for our nation to have plans like the Dominican Republic,

We are involved in situations where we cannot get the vaccine from our government.

Here's what can happen, and it's very simple.

The nationalists and the leftists, and they disappear under the gun, as you know, but they don't disappear completely.

They're there.

They will go and they say to the president, we're here.

These are your great friends in Washington.

And of course, the first objective is naturally a company like ours.

This is the American company.

It has forgotten how we have worked closely and worked closely together with them.

A great conversation is let's nationalize it.

It's the rule.

It's going to be in the position that they will not lose ours.

When they take away American property, then why can't we win the Dominican Republic to the same, maybe in three years, when the Sugar Act comes up?

We'll be compensated for this.

Now, Mr. President, let me say this to you.

The Deputy Assistant Secretary of State

Mr. Katz, told the House Committee that we cannot retaliate against people who mislead Americans because the experience of the past has been that when we retaliate against them, then they only escalate against us.

Well, Mr. President, I think that your views on these things are fairly well known.

And I can only say with all humility that perhaps one of the companies we should also start in the Dominican Republic is a company making umbrellas.

Because perhaps we can supply some of the umbrellas that Mr. Chamberlain used in export, and I say humbly, to certain people who feel the United States flag

which must have meaning abroad, that must be treated in a pussy-footing manner.

Now, I'm sorry to speak so candidly.

Who is the follow-up?

Well, this is Deputy Assistant Secretary Julius Katz.

Now, the reason I say that, Mr. President, is that I clearly...

Please, as an American citizen, that I think that I've traveled widely, and I know how widely you've traveled around the world yourself, that I think that the most important single thing for the United States, being born in Europe myself, is the respect for the Americans and for the American flag.

And I don't believe...

That this type of an attitude does anything, sir, except to encourage these people to go forward and forward and to continue a trend which, in my opinion, will destroy whatever is left of the Mahalo doctrine because we've had these subversive elements.

Moving in.

The Chilean foreign minister has been in Moscow.

You've been to Russia.

I've been to Russia.

I know for a fact, sir, that there's great pride, great pride in Russia, that they think they're infiltrating the Western Hemisphere.

Now, I can only say this.

I know how Ballot Care has spoken about you, because this is a fact.

This is not somebody telling you.

Now,

I don't believe that we can desert our best friends in this type of manner.

Now, why does he write a letter like this?

It's most unusual for a president.

Sure, it's not a big republic, but he does it because to him, sugar is the most all-important situation.

In Brazil, where they cut some borders with peace, in Mexico they cut some borders, but to a much lesser extent.

Mr. President, 75% to 85% of their sugar is locally consumed, so it's not the most important thing.

And for Brazil, the important crop is sugar.

It's the crop, not sugar.

But for the Dominican Republic today, 75% of their winning force is based on sugar.

75%.

Now, when a situation like this materializes, it has two aspects.

The president of the Dominican Republic feels I'm the closest ally, and I sit between Puerto Rico and Florida.

They're cutting me 25%.

At the same time, countries like Peru, Bolivia, and Ecuador either get more or they get a very small reduction.

Another thing happened, Mr. President, that I do not understand.

Someone, out of the goodness of their heart, suddenly started to assign, away from the Western Hemisphere, traditional quarters to Africa, dividing them among little countries so much so, Mr. President, that if you were still in private business, you would go crazy because Uganda is getting a quarter where they are netting quarter sugar.

So they're getting a quarter.

Now, these things in themselves are very small, and they take up presidential time, but these are the things that you read about 18 months later when there's a coup d'etat in a place like Santo Domingo, and a new military government moves in, and you read it, and all of a sudden you read that they've nationalized the industry, and I'm coming down, and I'm coming down, and I say, gentlemen, we put so much in, because that's not the point.

I am proud to be an American.

I spoke at Harvard University when Pete Williams said to me, you're going to talk about America?

They're going to pull you down.

And I said, let them pull me down.

Everything I got, I got in this country.

And I say that I don't believe

I don't believe in the theory that we have got to sit back and let people hit us and reply by saying, well, we will be this moderate about it.

It's, Mr. President, you've got 1,000 acres of land, and somebody comes and takes 900 acres away from you, you respond by saying to them, I'm going to support you for governor next year because one of your aides says you don't want to lose your last 100 acres to me.

That doesn't have any logic or any sense at all.

Because there's more involved.

We have tried to show in our little way, in the Caribbean, a showcase of what America can be about.

Mr. Castro is a joke.

I traveled in the Ukraine, and you know that area in Russia, and the property there was the second largest concentration camp in the world.

When were you there?

I was planning on going there two years ago, because we did the eviction, which is still bad.

Well, you know, I wasn't, I haven't been to the Ukraine.

Well, I went there because we had 18,000 troops, Russian troops,

that were performing.

We did a picture for Bordeaux.

You saw that?

It was done in Russia.

It was done on the Czech, Hungarian border.

And when I spoke to the Russian generals, and they told me about the cost of their picture, this was during President Johnson's time, I said to them, I said, it shouldn't cost you too much because we can shoot the picture on park.

You've got all your tools in Cherys Bavaria.

And the minister got absolutely white and black.

And he looked at me and he said, you know, Mr. Putin, you're very funny.

I said, no, we're not funny at all.

Mr. Kosygin is the one who said that there's no proof that you're ever going into Cherys Bavaria.

So don't complain about the cost of your pictures.

But that was really Ukraine.

And the poverty and the misery in the Ukraine.

It was unbelievable.

Naturally, the Army, marvelous.

The scientists, marvelous.

The man who directed the pictures, Sergei Bandichuk, who was a member of the Politburo and the whole organization, he, you know, he treated those people there, he was treated like a king.

And he, that's right, he even pushed the channels around.

But I don't believe what I've seen with all the space efforts and the with the fact they have to travel to the Ukraine.

The system doesn't work in Cuba any more than in Russia, Mr. President.

It can't work.

But when you compare two places 90 miles apart,

I have to tell you that if you see the American flag waving around that place, it's not a bunch of fellas from up north trying to take the money away from those people there.

We have created jobs.

We have created industry.

We have created a show place.

that is an example for what can be done by a rapid initiative.

And we're willing to show it.

And anybody from Washington who comes down and says, well, this fellow Pluton came in and told the president a nice story, I'll tell you, I won't come in here and apologize.

I'll lay everything down on the line.

Well, your point is that House Bill kicks our friends and punishes our people when they're expropriating.

It's my piece of voice that helps the expropriate.

I believe that if anybody, frankly, John, I have to say...

If anybody is to be punished, in my opinion, it should be countries like Peru.

And I personally must admit to you that I felt very strongly that Peru should have received a tremendous cut, which should only be restored by presidential order when they start to have a certain degree of respect.

Because, as a businessman, I would like to know from you, sir, how you feel in the 70s, even aggressive companies like ours are going to compete.

When?

We have to face these facts.

Now, it's true the Japanese have now opened up a little bit for automobile industries to come in and have done this and that, but it's not an equal battle, Mr. President.

It really is not an equal battle.

And if we're going to invest, take it from the point of view, Mr. President, that American private industry

is to invest.

All right, how are we going to invest?

We can compete.

I think in our lifetime, I don't know what's going to happen to our labor rates here.

That's an entirely different problem.

But I do know this.

We have brought a lot of dollars back from foreign investments over the years.

General Motors has done it.

We've done it.

Others have done it.

But if it's going to become, Mr. Peterson, free hunting session,

where everybody can feel that they can take anything American away, that we're really in government.

And I must tell you, John, let's get something straight.

I'm not worried about President Ballaguer.

I'm not worried about President.

President Ballaguer will be very bitter.

There's no question about it, because I don't think it's normal, as I know their mentality, for a president to go out and lash out his platform this way.

You know, he has his ambassadors.

But he did tell the head of our operation, he said, now, I never have asked Mr. Pluton for anything.

I've never asked anything, but this is a moment of truth.

And that's why I called you, and I would do it again any day of the week, because I felt I had an obligation to respond to this situation.

Now, what I'm saying, in essence, is this, that it's not Ballard here that I'm scared of.

I'm concerned about the leftists and the military who would seize on this as an excuse.

We have today the largest remaining American property in the Western Hemisphere.

Not only do we employ 20,000 people there, but we're still building, we're still reinvesting, and you couldn't duplicate our investment there for $150 million.

The point here is that, of course, this is a congressional action.

As of right now.

John, there's no question, and please believe me, I didn't come in to lobby.

I came to the letter of a president of the government, which he made it very clear to leave the Spanish that he wrote originally was stronger than that because it said, please tell me practically.

But I must say this to you, John.

It's not just a question of that.

You and all these congressional committees, I mean, you gentlemen are better, especially as president.

They are guided to some degree of what the State Department tells them.

And when Mr. Katz, who I'm not attacking, but when he comes in and makes a statement, you think that the House is reflecting that at the State Department?

Well, sir, I was a 50,000 cut man, you know.

Yes, but you proposed, you proposed to grow

some growth for foreigners.

And the attitude was such that that was voted down, as you know.

And the 300,000 tons was taken out.

And that was just tremendous domestic lobbying pressure.

The second thing that happened, Mr. President, is that in addition to that, certain foreign lobbyists from overseas got involved in this picture.

And all of a sudden, it's blue-dark and dry.

The ground earth is in Africa.

Well, let me ask you this about that.

Why did they not call, why did they not $50,000?

Well, sir, excuse me, I don't want to interrupt you, but I said $50,000.

Sir, that's not the figure.

The average amount of sugar shipped by the Dominican Republic, including extra boys, granted by the President of the United States,

of 700,000 tons, which has been reduced to 520,000 tons, so that the reduction is fantastic.

I mean, there is not 50,000, Mr. President, it's a 172,000 ton reduction, and to give you a little bit more of an impact, the total reduction of the total farm sugar, as Mr. Peterson will confirm, is about 200,000, 215,000 tons, or 4% of the total, so that from the Dominican Republic, they've practically taken a whole reduction

I tell you something, sir, and that's one of the things... Why are you hanging out?

How did that come about?

No, you know, we don't...

The Philippines got the biggest swine of all.

Sir, excuse me, Mr. Peterson, again, theoretically they did, but practically they didn't.

You know why?

Because they never could deliver all the sugar quarter that was given to them, and now, as a matter of fact, I can tell you, Mr. Peterson, that's the way it shows on paper, but in actual practice, I can tell you that the Philippines are going to get an increase.

Well, apart from that, I can explain to you.

Okay.

Well, they cut a whole group of countries, actually.

Mexico, the Dominican Republic, Brazil, and Peru, because the total, you remember, was cut back to take care of the domestic gas.

The thing here that's totally unexplainable, I mean, in any sense at all, is all these other countries have got increases from all over the world, Africa and places like that.

Now, we've gone back and testified.

to leave the quotas on the 65 basis, which we think would be a great improvement over what they've done here, then you've got some presidential authority, you know, to allocate some where there's Jews, then you can take care of some of these special friends of yours.

But there won't be very much left of Mr. Peterson.

I don't know what figures they've given you, but I must tell you, sir,

that Peru has been reduced, actually, if you take the average of what was allocated by the United States between 68 and 70 over those three years, they received 416,000 tons, which is now 414,000 tons, a reduction of 2,000 tons.

So Peru has not received any reduction, not a fraction of 416,000 tons.

Well, this is an introduction to Brazil, and Mexico was a great deal less.

John, I must tell you something.

There's always two sides to this story.

I can assure you there's no other side to this story because nobody has been able to tell us why that is.

Let me say this.

I will have this thing examined.

First of all, let me figure out actually my position.

I have no patience for those that are against the amendment or calling it.

That is the attitude of the State Department.

It's not mine.

They're against it because they consider it a dictatorship.

I don't give a damn what it is.

I'm for it.

Is that clear?

Second, I have no patience for the attitude that says we're going to, that in any way, that with regard to Peru, Bolivia, or Chile,

gives them treatment that is the same as the Dominican Republic.

Or for that matter, Mexico.

Mexico should be treated fairly.

Dominican Republic should be treated fairly.

They're both friends of the United States.

Brazil should be treated fairly for other reasons.

It's too important to us.

Now these little African countries, it's silly.

It's silly.

Those countries should not be encouraged in this business because then they'll be in this market and they'll be coming in for more and more and more and they're gonna be lobbying.

Now, what we can get through to Congress, I do not know, but that's my attitude.

I want any countries added, none, if we can possibly get the Senate to be smart enough to do it.

No country should be added.

We don't want any new people in the sugar business.

And we've got to play our friends and punish our enemies to the extent that we can.

Now, having said all this, this is a part of it.

This at least overrides the State Department.

They've got to do what I say.

But the other thing, having said all this, we are up against a very serious problem in the country.

The sugar lobbies, that's the, as you know, it's the most effective, the best paid in the world.

And they are murderous.

They're working on all these people, right and left.

But those are my views.

But most of all, the thing that I want clearly understood, and I know the state does not approve of this,

States against Brazil and against Brazil and the Dominican Republic for the wrong reasons.

They're against it because they think they're both dictatorships.

I like them because they are.

Because, not because they're dictatorships, but because they're friends of the United States.

And that has got to be made clear to these people.

Friends of the United States will be rewarded and friends of the United States will be punished.

And that includes Peru to the extent we can.

It includes Bolivia to the extent we can.

And it includes, by all means, Chile to the extent we can.

That's where the game has to be played.

As far as the African countries concerned, they don't have it.

I don't want any African countries added.

They're not our problem.

They're the problem with Europe, not the problem with the United States.

That African desk, Newsom doesn't know anything.

He's never done anything.

He's got to say, for example, that thing they've got to embarrass with the French, that Algerian thing, that is not true.

Never.

Where there is ever expropriation without any compensation, the United States does never guarantee a loan of any kind on an extant bank loan with Algeria.

Can't be done.

And that's the way it has to be done.

Now, they argue with you here in the state on this, it's going to be very different.

I think because they have their efficient running, but we've got to do it.

We've got to play a very strong run here.

Now, what will come out of this, I can't say.

You'll get some more, because the Senate will be more responsible than the House.

And Cooley is gone now.

And he, of course, ran before.

But if you get some more, that's a great improvement.

But our attitude, you see, we can only do so much with the Congress.

Each congressman, each senator, has got some loggies that he's pending for.

And that's a real problem.

And so those votes are all counted up in whatever we do.

And you can't veto the bill, because the bill comes in and you send it right back.

The interests are so horrible here.

But we will try to carry out these things as best we can.

But our influence with this kind of Congress is somewhat limited because of the enormous potency of the lobbyists.

But we'll handle the State Department.

Don't worry about that.

I can only say that

There's nothing I can say because I'm deeply appreciative.

You said it all in a few words.

I really and truly believe that this is like a little thing in a 10% teapot, a 10% teapot that they grow.

And what you said, I'm really deeply appreciative and grateful for because

I don't, I completely understand the situation in Congress, sir.

But I do believe that the State Department has a very powerful and tangible influence because a number of senators do not understand what has happened at all.

We cannot encourage, we cannot encourage this virus.

of expropriation, and it's getting to be, he's not a better man in education, he knows it, John Connolly knows it, in fact, two of them are in the State Department, but you see, the moment, and there are, of course, times when we've got to play games for other reasons, but the moment that a country

is encouraged in expropriation.

Now, the argument is that if they expropriate, if they have adequate compensation, fair compensation, that's their right over international law.

That's the understanding.

Sir, I'll tell you, this type of... Long 20 years, long terms.

Hey, a living thing.

A living thing.

The President of the White House is willing to look at it from his point of view.

We've got a very good team here.

Mr. Peterson, of course, is an entirely new man in this office.

He's business oriented.

He understands these things.

He's a fair man.

But he realizes that you cannot continue to have American business expected to go abroad.

and invest if they're going to be expropriated.

That's the other thing.

It's the estimates that we talked about the other day, and they raised the point that we can't be hard on countries that expropriate because after all it's legal.

That's my question too.

But how can we expect American business to go ahead?

You know, John Cullen pointed out the other day that he pointed out that under this ODAG that the United States was going to have a liability of up to a billion dollars because of that corporation.

I don't know about this, but the thing I was going to say, too, is that

If you could, uh, call us up and get us a job.

Let me tell you, it's a pretty good offer.

But may I, may I ask you a question?

Yes, sir.

What do you mean?

I know that there's an allegation about the literacy.

Can you tell us?

You tell us.

that we have service regarding our problems, but that we, I express sympathy for their situation, and that we are going to work on the problems.

Can I tell him that he is the same sort of man that you, that's right, all that, that we all, because I think that we've come too far, that you know that we do talk, that you talk as far as I can see, as concerned, he has a friend in this office,

that, to the extent that we can help, will depend upon our extent to deal with the Congress and the LA's plot, but that I have instructed my assistants to do everything they can at the Congress to attempt to rectify it.

Don't expect everything.

They must not expect everything, but they can expect some remedial action, I think.

Fair enough.

Well, and if that's good enough, I'd ask for more.

And, Lillian, do you have anything to say?

Thank you very much.

It was magnificent.

And I think the weather was with you.

Yeah, I think it was.

You had good luck.

Good luck.