Conversation 523-005

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This is my house, President's house.

First of all, this is John O'Neill.

Senator John O'Neill.

Senator O'Neill.

He just goes to the medicine.

Where?

John.

You did?

Yes, sir.

That's where the blood comes from.

He gets very vocal.

He has a standing of which he always, he won't tell you this.

I think it's very interesting, John, Gary, so long as I'm sure you've watched them.

No, I haven't.

I'll come around and tell you again if there's something wrong.

I want to get you to the back.

Would you see if Kissinger was free to come in and listen to a little of this?

It doesn't have to be at all.

I think he'd be tired of it, Mr. Chairman.

I'll listen to it.

There's certain times.

Would you like some coffee, tea, Pepsi, iced tea?

We've got everything except we've got to get any hard drinks for you.

No, but that's other places.

What do you want?

Some iced tea would be all right.

Iced tea.

How would you like it?

Can we make it each other?

Iced tea with a little pineapple.

Sure.

That's wonderful.

I have what you're saying for me on my side.

No, thank you.

You want anything?

No, sir.

I want the iced tea.

Yes, if I... Well, let me say, before you call us, tell me that...

It's refreshing to have some guys that are willing to expand up and speak to others in the head-out, particularly in the light of the fact that you, you know, you meet polls and they say, if you ask the individual, would you like to do a favor and get an All-American dog, you know, by the end of 1971.

I'm surprised it isn't 100% in favor of that.

And if you ask them, who's in favor, if it risks our POWs to be in favor, if it means turning more of the country to the continent, then maybe, you know, you'd be better off for a cancer.

But because of many of the American people, after a long, tortuous time, Dr. Mendez, you know, he's a, he's a great, he's a great.

Historically, we have to remember that our people are patient people.

We know that.

I mean, we are not the great sure and sometimes the great sure are going to go through long, long wars.

They have arguments and debates, but they're sad.

And here, this one, this one, it was in another land where it was a combination of using force to restrain.

America's never done that before.

I mean, if we could finish off that Mr. O'Neill, if we wanted to, we must not do that.

So we've gone along and suffered.

45,000 Americans died.

So all of this adds up to this.

It adds up to the fact that a majority of the American people are sick of the war.

A majority of the American people want to get out as quick as they can.

And many want to get out regardless of the consequences.

So that's the public opinion that you run into.

Also, other attitudes have been created by the media.

Most Americans are the sentiment of certain broader roots, savages,

Second, that many others who have served abroad are dope addicts.

Third, that in any event, the morality is such that Johnson lied, Kennedy before him lied, and I actually listen to him because

uh, that we were lying to the Lord, and now as we're getting out, probably we're lying as we get out.

So, always that you run into.

Yeah, and it's back to the, the factional thing.

Actually, among younger people, particularly in the East, uh, the universe and so forth, is to, to be against the war, sort of.

And also, if you have another factor that is affecting public opinion, that you run into.

And it's this, that, that, uh,

We're going through a national psychosis of some sort.

That people are trying to find many people an excuse for their own sense of frustration or lack of money or anything the rest of it.

I know that.

And what really happens is, like, you always go on before someone.

It's just, if you go on a debate or, for example, a lot of people are like this, if you go on something like a college show that you're going on somewhere, inevitably,

First, the producer was second against you.

Second, you've got the impression that the country's known against you and it must be terribly discouraging and frustrating.

So, why'd you do it?

Well, the answer I had to give you was this.

The answer is that it's not terribly reassuring unless you can take a very long view.

The answer is you're on the right side.

And it's hard to say that to people who say, we believe that we've done the right thing.

We believe that if we get out and accept that matter, that would be disastrous to the economy.

17 million South Vietnamese have hazed into American foreign policy in the Pacific and the world.

And the answer is that the United States record in Vietnam is full of heroism and self-sacrifice and so forth.

And under all these circumstances, it's time for

and that when Americans look bad on this difficult, like, disorder in their history, that they look back with some pride.

So it takes some time.

It takes some time.

And so it takes some luck.

And as long as the Vietnamese have to survive for a while, I can believe that it's happening.

But, you know, I just presented to the Congressional Medal of Honor yesterday to a few people.

Most of you are out there.

They come from middle class working families for the most part.

are going to be great people.

Yes, sir.

And this is the kind of thing that you .

I really feel, I really feel, in other words, that what you're doing, you're going to take great paths.

If you go on some of these TV shows like the .

and you will feel terribly discouraged and the same in a couple of countries and so forth.

But I think you've got to remember that we have to remember that now having served your sin should be enough, that now you have the adverb and to get back and reassure people that those who killed you will come back.

like Kerry and the rest, don't speak for all.

In other words, there are a lot of guys that went out there, and I've been out there a half dozen times myself, and they went out there, they did their job, and they're now ashamed.

As a matter of fact, most of them did a pretty good job, and most of them did a pretty great job, and 45,000 of them did so much that we ought to be making darn sure that we don't let that thing go down, and they didn't.

That's at least what I feel like.

So let's hear, let's hear from the O'Neils.

How do you feel about the thing?

I, uh, one thing that most of the people in our organization, it was most spontaneous to come out and think, well, I just get in, I just get out of these.

Yeah, I know.

You were, did you go to, uh,

Were you in the, did you go to Memphis?

Yes, sir.

I came here in 1967.

That's been three years in the same, not in the same division.

Well, the last year.

I see.

Yes, sir.

Aren't you in New York?

Yes, sir.

And, yes, sir, I got out June 1st.

I was just going to say the thing that most of the people we have in the service, they should be one of the better sides of the problem.

really from all over.

And they don't, they're not, that's the kind of Vietnam they figured.

They would really go and agitate one way or the other.

They just would go to work, you know, go to work.

For one thing, it irritated them tremendously.

And I think they support your policy.

There's no questions there that it creates.

And in fact, that's why we've just been calling for polls every now and then, because if all those people go for it, two or three go on.

But the thing is, really, toward them all to the point of action,

was this testimony, the war crimes testimony up here.

You know, the water soldier deal and then the stuff that was taken in Congress.

It was unsworn testimony trying to portray everybody there as a war criminal.

And that's why they're willing to join the organization over and over.

How do they feel about that?

Very, very bitter.

Very, very bitter about that.

That's right.

Yeah.

I feel that way, man.

You know, really, man.

We've worked so hard.

The Vietnamese have worked so hard.

And we're so close.

And here, at the 11th hour, people are still trying to .

And they're trying to .

You know, right now, just to, and not to hold on to falsehood, but right now we are at the last point, really.

the last pan or seat, the last and best point where there might be negotiation.

Now, probabilities are no.

Possibility may not.

Reason, we're not even going to the reason, is that the, I don't know how many other reasons, but as our other presence goes down,

But the main point is that at this time, when you have two months in which there is some chance, some chance at all to end the war through negotiation, then to have the Congress destroy that chance,

because, and I think you could put it quite bluntly, anyone who votes for a date certain to end war, votes to destroy the negotiating channels.

Now, there would take a couple of years to add to that a second clause, and Ambassador Bruce and the American delegation should be turned forth with the United States.

Because they've got to negotiate about it.

I think, sir, you read all the polls, sir, and you know more about it than I do.

But I think that the people are tired of it more so.

But I think that this is true.

And I'm just from Texas.

I think that the people have a great deal of confidence in you.

And I know, just from what I've seen in Washington and up here,

I wouldn't let them stand up for me.

I think they really do like it.

I just hope they don't get discouraged and all up here.

But this, I just know how they feel.

I just, that's my, you know.

I'm a Democrat.

They should say that.

And I worked against you in 1960.

You know, they, I feel that way.

So do my parents, my family in Boston.

I think he's a, you're from San Jose.

You're from San Jose.

In the last couple weeks, we've seen, you know, we've been up against what you've been up against for a long time.

That's right.

Yep.

How do you do it?

I mean, how do you go day to day?

How do you walk into that, uh, activated, gladiator ring in the press building and having, you know...

Everybody in this country saw the people who were right in the midst of policing these people.

They just saw them.

They were talking to them.

Nobody got a chance.

Every television set in America would come along.

Really, really, really.

I had no shoes blue.

They did that.

What do you, how do you fellows feel about the, that the president must, well, you're, you must, you must be, you needn't be concerned about money.

See, I have to, a fellow who sits in this office,

He has no choice.

But beyond that, if he had a choice, you take the likes of Teddy and Hubert

I went to Vietnam at least six times between 1964 and 1963, between 1963 and 1960.

And I always, my criticisms directed against failing to use our air power more effectively, but I defended what we were doing.

I never criticized what we were doing, and I hope now.

But the point that I make is this, that these falls, of course, not being in the position of responsibility, they, if the whole thing goes down the drain, they can say, well, we didn't do it.

But you see, we can't do that.

I know that Vietnam does not have the right.

That our position in Asia is finished.

Our position in Europe is seriously jeopardized.

Our position in Israel and the Soviet Union is compromised.

What little hope that we're now having toward the Communist Chinese, which must be reciprocal, might be forgotten.

You see, that's what's involved.

People don't understand that the United States, as a great power, cannot fail against a little power like this.

It cannot fail.

It must succeed.

And there's no reason why we shouldn't succeed now, because we're very close.

That's the real idea.

Put your finger on it.

Very close.

Mr. President, this morning, the gentleman

We arrived in San Antonio at 7 o'clock last night.

Turned around and heard that we had gotten on and flew to the L.A.S.T.

conference.

Flew back last night to go to L.A.S.T.

He spoke after Kerry.

Kerry spoke at the chief's conference and was telling us.

He was telling us this morning.

We had a ticket to the L.A.S.T.

No, sir.

It was to tell us what happened in L.A.S.T.

And we picked it up here and go to the L.A.S.T.

What really was heartbreaking was that Kerry spoke and got...

a pause, but not surely enthusiastic.

I'm trying to keep my head up and talk to them, supporting their policies, and the great untoward story in America of people who get up every day and go to work and believe in the state of mind.

And at the end, your ending just, it was just magnificent.

For half of those voters, I voted their shits for a standing election, really.

And that vote, the vote only carried about four, 53 to 49, and they had expected just a runaway vote on this.

70 will have found a resolution that would say, yeah, we're going to do what's possible, yeah.

I think they, they, they, they changed something.

You know what I mean?

I think he's mentioned such a time on earlier or something.

This, the order that we have, but even the order that we have in the first almost had left that view.

I think that's why they...

I'm sure they've done well.

Everybody I know watches ABC News.

It's a lot of fun.

a liberal editorial, a conservative editorial, or selling, and I think any of you could stand up and, if you're reported, just tell the truth.

People will think it's the greatest thing in the world.

I think they really did it today.

People really wanted to hear what you said.

I mean, the mayor loved it.

Yes, sir, I was in the background watching, and I hope you were cheering.

I was like...

But they didn't need much help.

The mayors did a very spontaneous and outstanding ovation.

It was really reassuring.

There were about 200 in the contest.

I think they had about 150, I guess, in addition to just the mayors.

That's very good.

You get that kind of response.

You see the mayors...

have to see everything through the misery of their cities.

And they think, oh, God, we just get the war over.

We got all this money to pick up the ghettos.

Well, of course, they're wrong, because it isn't going to happen.

If we go, they think the United States is just fracking with all these things abroad, and we can do more at home.

If we don't do both, we'll do neither.

Yeah, I believe that it's the truth, sir, especially if you're going to somebody like Harriet that talks geopolitics.

It's supposed to be a better, you know, initiative.

I think it's true, and I always have.

I think that if you go down the drain here, in other words, if you don't give them a chance to defend themselves, as you said, if you run away from that problem, then really what would happen in this country is you'd just run away.

You'd run away from every one of these problems.

You'd run away from the space program.

You'd run away from the problems of the city.

And just exactly what you said is very true.

I agree with you on that.

Yes, sir?

We're afraid to be here.

It has done it.

That's the history of nations.

As we all know, once a nation starts down that terrible path of looking inward, of turning away from greatness and turning away from challenge, then the nation is finished.

It takes years, centuries for them to come back again.

People are not finished, but nations are finished.

The United States doesn't need to be.

That's the whole point of our wealth, our strength, and the rest.

Well, I must say, I think it's been a great service that you've rendered.

I can imagine.

I think you see it very well that you recognize that the television producers, et cetera,

They are not American.

The East is not American.

In fact, no one part of the country is American.

And if you just keep that kind of perspective, the universities are not.

Some are, and some are more representative than others, but I certainly don't think Yale is.

I don't think this one.

My God, it's just practically down the tube, but I'm wondering why it was developed.

This fellow, Caleb Brewster, who's

who is not a very smart man.

Not strong.

Yeah, not strong.

Well, I'm not sure of his brain power either.

We'll take brain power, but he has no back power.

But he doesn't have the need right now at the moment.

for this long struggle.

The need is to have the courage to see it through.

And people come in to me and sometimes say, you know, you just came out of the war and your polls have gone cheerily well.

I think you could be very popular for a while by finishing this war.

Let me tell you an interesting story that I have to explain.

Kessinger was pointing out, and this was after you were born, before you were born, when we were really young, and I remember it so well, he said, I don't understand about your age, but I'll never forget it, in the chamber when we came home from Munich, and I was with Israel there, this was before Talbot, and he said, peace in our time, I was the white man, of course,

At that time, the British public opinion poll showed that Chamberlain had support of 85%.

85% of the British people.

He was the most popular man in Britain.

But in Iraq and in Europe, everybody wanted to avoid war.

That was good.

Within one year, Chamberlain was down to 20% and out of office.

And they called Judge Hoyle.

Therefore, the leader, the elected leader, particularly one of his followers, must never follow the polls.

He must lead them.

I mean, you must sometimes buck against them, you see.

That's what all this is about.

And so I'm not concerned about polls and popularity and so forth.

The main thing is how it all comes out.

This is going to come out.

It's got to come out.

You know, you'll get some of the stock decisions if you make that Cambodian decision.

That was great, sir.

I was there.

Yeah, we had to have done that.

You're right.

It was a very good way.

We didn't have to fancy the next year.

Very good.

Played by the press.

It was a big first part.

Actually, both sides still have terrific clout.

Would you know what the casualties are this week?

25, this week?

19.

What they were a year ago?

115 to 20.

What they were three years ago, at this same time?

250.

How does it happen?

Because both Cambodia and Laos, by going, by cutting in,

to those services of supply reduces the enemy's capability to avoid these attacks.

And also, at the same time, the adversaries on board, the South Vietnamese, are able to do the job.

But even their casualties were lower this year than they were last year.

And so something must be doing right.

I was in Cambodia, sir.

I worked along the border.

You were on the border?

Yes, sir.

And it's...

It was just, I thought it was the greatest thing in the world.

I was on, with Coastal Mission 13, the operation of the day conference.

And it was just, I thought it was the hottest time we've done it.

I wish we could have done it two years earlier.

We could have done it about 67, if we had cracked it.

And also, about 67, I was second guessing about everybody who did it best.

But that's what I was strong here in 1967.

I'm not sure about there.

But right there, that was the time.

Part of the enemies that had their chance, they had been around.

Just stepped in there and knocked them out.

knocked out all those sanctuaries.

And then in the north, instead of pulling around, we got just as much white light.

We made a Cambodian sanctuary decision.

The first one was to go back home and to the parents' feet.

And then they added the .

You can't do more than that because you're going to get a lot of risks.

And I said, forget it.

You're going to get just as much for those two if you do all.

I said, you do all 10.

So we did all 10.

And at that time, we got as much money for that miserable, pitiful bombing we did up there.

Without hitting the things that mattered, they should have hit the area in which they could have done it on high long areas.

And I should have taken out those dives.

to change the war and to cut the dust from us in the past.

But don't play too rough on our prisoners.

Here, I accept you ahead.

Oh, say, sir, for one thing, sir, at the time of Savages,

At the time of Cambodia, there was one thing I couldn't understand, sir.

Like, I knew, we always operate in the area, and we knew Constance was just about ten people that ran around on the table, chatting, digging in.

Well, the one thing I heard on the radio, and they said, Rob, capture Constance.

I couldn't, I know the president's quoted you somehow or something.

But they tried to play it out as if it were a Pentagon or something like that.

Actually, what they were doing, I never used the term.

It was used in a briefing here, some sort of background.

I probably didn't think of the Pentagon.

Why is it ridiculous?

Cosmo is just a bunch of clowns running around saying, oh, it's over.

And therefore, it's a false issue.

It was as it was.

The operation to clean those clowns didn't work.

And it bought us time.

It's a good schedule.

As you know, schedules were half after 10.

What do you know what they were before?

And as I say in Laos, it was a difficult and terrible thing to go through.

Now, look at it.

You know what happens.

The usual crisis.

There was no crisis in the fencing this year.

There was no fencing right after 10.

And there's no fencing now.

And there isn't going to be much this fall.

We hope.

He's our hawker out here.

I don't know how to describe it.

Go ahead, when you're on the campus.

It's very interesting, sir.

The audience might not know that.

They always do.

Oh, this, first of all, this is a representative sample of Vietnam veterans.

One guy is a felon.

This is like $90, basically.

They had an addict.

They had this, probably the most bitter human being that I've ever seen.

I'll tell them I lost two legs there.

Understandably, probably, you know, that somebody had to assemble a hydroxychloroquine course.

Psychiatrists have spent some time analyzing Dr. Shaw and the things that were going on here.

He was formally still the addict.

He was supposed to be the addict until he appeared on that program.

Yeah, I've done that for myself.

Well, I threw him out.

I've done this.

But, uh... Yeah, you were the, uh...

Yes, sir.

I'm carrying a cup.

Oh, no.

He's done chill with me.

Yeah, yeah.

A little bit.

Yes, sir.

Anyway, uh...

We appeared there and, of course, every word he'd say, he'd be, I think it was four tickets of 125 million.

Four!

Four, it was a good number.

Good number.

We always got a third eye for our own shows.

They really sent us.

This was really, this was my eye, you know.

Actually, anyway, they put ten people up in front.

They were all screaming.

I'm saying that the entire show, of course, that never appears in the film.

It didn't.

No sooner than that.

That's out.

They're fucking out the audience.

We're trying to get those people out, but we got people there in front.

We're trying to go over the words of that movie.

But the funniest part of this, I did say at one point, a lot of us cops don't remember we have any points to navigate.

It's taped.

It's the same show.

This one is taped.

It's a lie.

It's my fault.

I don't know.

It's our fault.

But, uh...

And I hear he said, the one thing he did say was, this was cut too.

It was cut to make him unrecognizable.

After I said the United States is a very foreign country, I heard him laugh and scream inside of me.

I said, this must be a New York audience.

And he said, at that point, it was cut.

I said, what do you mean?

He said, well, you know, Mr. Kevin, everybody knows work.

He's been very, he had good news.

That's great.

Give it to them.

And you can do it because you have a pleasant man.

You have two of the guys you've got.

And I think it's a great service to the country.

Tom Henry, do you think the country has any chance to survive?

Well, I think there's a chance, but it's not clear.

I think we're going to have to go there.

He used to quote you on the Navy now.

He used to debate on the Navy.

He used to quote you about the Atlantic a lot.

Almost continuously on the troops in the Air Force.

You know, why we shouldn't, what's wrong with the troops in the Air Force.

You debated the Atlantic like it's crazy.

Yes, sir.

We used to debate that NATO issue.

The same thing that they've been debating on the Air Force.

You're not going to put you on troops in the Air Force.

Don't you have a sense of that history that we're over the hump of the country, though?

I mean, that... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or, or, uh, well... What are you referring to, sir?

Well, in Vietnam, uh, that the country is perhaps in the, in the awakening.

I mean, that's... Do you have any, uh...

I do, sir.

Why do you think so?

Well, before I came to Washington, I spent two months driving around the country.

Did you?

I deliberately... Why do you think so?

Yes, sir.

Just fine, sir.

You're not married?

No, sir.

No, no.

and into schools and into farm towns and, you know, that doesn't try to get across the status quo.

What makes you feel better?

Well, first of all, because the people, as a rule, I'm convinced, are satisfied.

They're satisfied that we're getting out and we're getting out in a way which is not going to embarrass us later on, which is not going to make us regret everything we've done, sacrificed $45,000 for nothing.

And also that people are tired of hearing John Kerry's demonstrations.

And it's just, they're waiting for people like John to get up and say, you know, I'm proud to have been there, regardless of the issues of the war.

You say it just that way, don't you?

That you're proud to have done that?

You know, it's absolutely true.

As a matter of fact, you know, I'm very, I think it was a great...

I'm very proud to have been in Vietnam personally.

The only thing I understand is that people think, well, they won't get a lot of hold of that.

I feel very upset about that, as do most people who are there.

And it's like, it's humoring this organization, like those from Christmas past, at least.

folks that happen to be down here in the 800-900-2.5 million donation.

What we've done is challenged such a poll repeatedly, and that group served more than any other group in this country.

That group was, again, an honest poll.

If you, you know, any sort of like the, you know, that Neal Carey was today, was in his own state of Massachusetts, the election last November.

Judge went two or three years to the P.S.

station in Palisade.

At any rate, that's sort of a total letter.

There's no question at all.

As long as you get the P.S.

letters, including the one made official in our portion, so I'm certain that maybe over two or three, maybe four months, something like that, far more than the population

I guess you've been in Chicago for a long time.

I told you that millions of people have seen it.

The reaction is insane everywhere.

But I can't thank God there's somebody

Speak up.

Speak up for us.

Somebody that looks decent, that's, uh, you know what I mean, who's, uh, who's not ashamed of the country, not running the country, you know what I mean?

Did you find a deeper target?

Well, you don't have to say, uh, run for the country.

I mean, it's the best.

I think that, uh, running for the country, like, absolutely running down is bad.

It's bad.

And I think the middle class Americans are getting sick.

And they're working.

They're getting sick.

And I know that this, my friends, is an upper class.

And I'm an upper middle class.

Yes.

What do you feel about this?

big hassle with the New York Times, and what do you think about, I think you know something about classified actions.

Does that, did that restore your faith in the three first days?

Yes, yes.

People never, I, of course, just, I think it's much more horrible, I'm falling.

Good.

But I don't think he understands what we're talking about.

He doesn't understand.

He thinks, oh, I should know what the facts are.

How do you run this office?

How do you have a conversation with anybody?

and then expect that somebody's going to carry out the files and give it to the newspaper.

He can have no presidential advisers or speaking confidants.

Or honestly, he wouldn't.

He'd be speaking to the record.

Sure.

I've had a record at the moment.

And of course, the other thing is he couldn't conduct any conversations in any foreign governments.

What if the poor ambassador, if he went to the prime minister or president or chancellor, et cetera, was going to talk?

He figures he's going to find it in there.

The problem is if you do find a guy and you prosecute him because he's guilty of treason, there's no question about it, you're going to do the villain again.

You know, here's the big government again, this moral guy who's just now trying to, uh...

The difficulty is here, of course, we have to do it, though, because if we do not prosecute at first, first time, spur on the side for publishing, and second, the individual will carry on this, uh...

Then you see, it's an open invitation for everybody in the administration at the present time to just load their suitcases full of secret documents, take them out, and sell them to newspapers.

That's what they'll do.

Well, anyway, it's good to talk to you.

We'll try to see it through on our side, and we're glad to have a few good people like yourselves helping us on your side.

Just although it gets you down, we want you to guide us.

You ought to remember that these cops like Claude and Kev, they're just tannery to that New York.

Look, there are lots of fine people in New York.

I lived there for a long time.

New York City.

But the city now is finished.

Yes, sir.

It's finished.

Because it's morality that shines there.

And it may come back.

But it's only going to come back if it gets some sort of character back.

So when you see those New York audiences wooing you and so forth, it's a compliment.

Sure.

Yes.

It's hard to say.

I speak before audiences, you know, and they say the same things.

Yes, sir.

I was going to say, sir, I have told you, I always wanted to tell you, sir, and I've gotten all the permission to say that, but I think, sir, one thing, just watching the press conferences, I want to say this, when they ask you these totally super cautious, which they always seem to ask you, two or three or three times, I think you ought to laugh at them.

I think the whole country would light up with you.

You know, John, that's always a temptation.

You know, maybe you're right.

I don't know.

You get them alive.

Make them alive.

Yes, sir.

I feel it, sir.

We appreciate the message.

Oh, thank you.

You're married?

No, sir.

Take it on.

No, sir.

All right.

Here's your complex.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

You have one.

We've got some more.

Thank you, Mr. President.

This is the tire bar.

There's your tire bar.

Thank you very much.

You play golf?

Well, listen, you're on the right side.

That's the only thing I can tell you, okay?

Let me tell you an interesting thing.

I wish I had this.

Wait just a second.

I want to read you something.

So what's this?

I certainly appreciate everything you've done for us, sir.

I don't know.

I just want to say that I don't want to do much.

I'd like to do one more thing.

This German fellow gave me a copy of Schindler's Witness, but he's a bit skeptical.

He was around for some months.

He told me that Garland was going to be a heaven-cold man.

He said they took him aside.

Do you have a copy of Witness in there?

Or do you have a copy of those hearings?

Do you remember that?

Somebody sent me a copy of those hearings.

I'm afraid that we can see some out there, but I don't know.

I don't know.

And I was touching on why it was that they were friends.

He said that his answer, in effect, was that we were close friends, but he represented the enemy of this country.

kind of work for the other choice.

But the key point that he said was that when he left the Communist Party, he left with the conviction that he was leaving to the West Side.

He said he was saddened to see that.

At the present time, the really important thing is not here on the winning side.

You fellows have been out there and you've got to know from seeing the barbarians that we're up against.

You've got to know from knowing the horrors from the North Vietnamese.

You've got to know.

from all of our folks in this country that what we're doing is right.

You've got to know, too, if you look at our critics, the critics of the war, those that want to talk around America now, those that are, in every respect, if I either get out of Vietnam, get out of Europe, get out of the world, et cetera, et cetera, you've got to know that you're on the right side.

And that conviction that you're going to have, no one can be sure you're on the winning side.

You must always play to win.

Absolutely.

Play a lot to win.

Play where the odds are 90 to 1 against you.

Because then you might win.

But on the other hand, the important thing is that too many people in the world today, particularly younger people, have always talked about idealism many times.

It's the fashionable pander to the audience, pander to the crowd, play to them.

It's the thing that's particularly true of the East, here in the Eastern establishment.

The reason that people, frankly, some of these candidates have gone a bit astray, they're not a part of the country.

And the press, too.

The press believes that the winning side is the other side.

I think they're wrong about that.

But let's assume that they're right, you see.

We have got to fight for what we know is the right side.

And that's where you can look down their trucks.

Because you can talk to these oppressed people.

You can see them there.

They're just as well educated as you are.

They know just as much as you do.

And yet, deep down, you see, some of them think, well, that's the way of the future.

This is what's new.

This is the winning side.

And if you talk about right and wrong, that's smear.

Because they don't believe in right.

They don't believe in wrong.

But you fellows just remember it.

Don't worry about whether you're going to win, whether you are on the winning side.

I'm going to win.

But have a conviction that you're on the right side.

And I'll show you if you want to get stuck.

Thank you very much.

Bye.

I don't know who's going to love it.

Well, I just think it was well-machined about us.

You basically think it's Russia?

No, no, no, no.

They're not doing anything.

Well, so let's face it.

They're over here running around talking to these other people.

I expect them to talk to the other side.

But they don't seem to do it to them, likely.

And we want to remember that who the heck, who's standing up for them, who's fighting these folks?

We're trying to do it.

And who would be protecting those of us who've had enough of them?

We're going to have to go to them to sell it out and fix it well.

They were wrong.

The majesty of the men of the past, we hadn't stood up.

You know that.

The whole bunch, for example, must be hungry to wrestle.

We forced those bastards to come around.

The tragedy is that these things are not such a lesson, but it is a reality.

Yeah, that's true.

Well, anyway...

You just remember, remember, aren't they nice looking kids?

They seem to be so terribly hot.

Now that tall kid who's the one who's the one who's the base of carry, did you realize he's 25 years old?

He looks so young, but he's obviously smart, cherished, attractive.

But I also think that the mood in the country is not on, they want to get out of the war.

And that's a misleading question, because if you said you want to get out of the war, it turns out, I don't know whether the communists, I don't know what they would do.

But, above all the basic issues, I don't think they'd like their country torn to pieces all together.

Well, we've got to get to that.