On June 30, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, White House operator, and Charles B. Rangel met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:18 am to 10:30 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 532-011 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
I just followed the same line you did with the affair.
I said if it's between the Mansfield Amendment and no draft, we'll just take no draft and use it.
I said in the Congress we'll then just have to decide whether it will want the responsibility of taking us out of the war just when things may be breaking.
And I said anyone who sticks with us now won't look bad.
That's what the President said.
I just said, I can't guarantee it.
I always say, but I think you're going to look all right.
And you know, that scares the Russians.
Well, you know, we're doing well on Berlin.
I've got rash position to not to conclude it before the 20th of July.
Let me tell you a couple things that I had in mind.
If there's anything on the China thing, if you could give me any preliminary paper or something, whatever you are, that I can say about it after the NSC meeting, then I can study it tonight so that when we meet tomorrow, I'll have some ideas.
Excellent.
So that I just want to get it fresh and I may get some...
Just to give you a paper, don't make it fancy.
Just sort of your thoughts.
How far you're thinking has gone to this point.
I have statements for every position.
You've got to keep some leeway too.
But I told Bob this morning, this is too important for me to fly.
And it's too important for you.
Yeah.
You have to know exactly what I plan to do.
It may be, for example, it may be that we would have to, you see, there's one thing, sir, putting the thing off to labor, among many others.
Other coalitions go over there and take the cream off.
The other thing, even though we may not, the other thing will be more severe.
The situation will be more severe.
Yeah.
I wanted to know, because I tried to call you right after I made it up, but we've got some good news for you.
You remember you mentioned the problem of stopping the foreign, using foreign policy to stop the poppy growing and so forth.
We just, we just made the, you may not, but I guess we just made the announcement.
The Turkish ambassador came over and it was announced at 6 o'clock and after a time, much that's honored,
But the Turkish government has now agreed, they made the announcement in Turkey today, that all poppy growing, that's all poppy growing, will cease in June, 7200, in one year.
And this year, it will cease, except in four provinces, and then by June of next year, totally all cultivation of the opium poppy will stop.
So we got at this one at least.
And I told, I think you,
because there are a lot of critical questions on it.
We've been negotiating, but we know it's nice to get everything done.
Now then, the other side of this, of course, is that I am very skeptical of some people that maximum, 60 to 80% of presently all heroin that comes to the United States has its derivative, derivation in opium properties grown in Turkey.
Now that we stop in Turkey, of course, if the demand
beds are growing someplace else you know what i mean luckily one place so that is why we're also working in the southeast east department because there are parks on there that can grow but i can assure you that as far as the state department is concerned i have told them when i had the native ambassadors that on a no-nonsense basis that in our relations with foreign countries we considered the drug traffic our public economy number one and that we had to do everything we could to negotiate with foreign governments
to as in this case to stop the source of supply uh with the french where they manufactured of course we've got to do what we can there too but the attorney's thing is really the biggest break i think we've had in this and perhaps the last 10 years that's my question but uh well well yeah
The other thing, too, that I think is very important to note is, you know, we might have chatted, you know,
Jeffy works at the other end of the funnel.
In other words, the rehabilitation, the treatment, and all that.
You can't do this, as you know, simply by stopping.
It's our supply.
You've got to stop the demand.
So I hope that sometime you and some of your fellows that are interested in this thing, when he gets here, call him now or come down and see him.
Yeah?
Oh, you know him.
Oh, good.
Good.
Good.
Good.
I told him about our conversation when I appointed him.
I said, right, you've got to hold Congressman Rankin on top of the tent.
He clearly worked on this thing.
Good.
Oh, right.
sure you know they've grown this stuff not for the purpose of opium before but you know it's a crop they they get apparently some kind of uh
you know, that they use, you know, they use it for, just like you use olive oil, I mean, so that's our, so the farmers have grown it for centuries.
They got it, but the church don't use it themselves.
They are very, very small consumers, virtually dying of heroin.
And so when they got it, they stepped in and really got them.
And, of course, we helped.
We paid them something.
But it's worth it.
Right.
Well.
We appreciate your help, and whenever you want to, as I said, in the general field, give Kroger help.
He's a very great, strong young man.
And on the other field, where Jackie's concerned, he'll come down.
He's a real, as you know, articulate fellow.
Okay.
And would you pass this on, too, to the other members of the caucus, so that, because, you know, we can't, as you notice, in our response, we don't do all the things you want, but I just want you to know that we listen.
and we have help where we can.
Well, what does it matter?
Sorry, my grandfather isn't alive, but he would think I'd be present.
He'd never bring me.
but it just means
It dishonors some of that.
You see, the thing is, as you well are aware, not many are aware, but you are aware, I'm probably the toughest guy that's been in this office since, probably since Theodore Roosevelt.
No question.
No.
I mean, in terms of just, just straight, I don't know.
Alice Longworth was there last night, and she said that, too.
Did she?
Yes.
Oh, that's very serious.
How'd that happen?
Come on, Peter.
Discuss.
Oh, she can hear me.
You can hear me.
Well, that's the thing.
She's a great answer to your question.
Well, no, she said two things.
And, you know, I had a few outside brothers there.
Sure.
And she was going around saying that no one ever understands what a gentle person you really are.
Gentle.
Gentle person.
And...
how tough you can be.
And... You see, the point is that here, in that meeting, the thing we have to bear in mind is that sometimes people get the impression from the press, the press plays it.
The press is really mystified.
They don't know what...
They have to create the impression of me as a tough investigator, a hater, a mean, vicious son of a bitch.
And so consequently, that's why this winning thing...
enormous impact because it shows something else.
On the other hand, in meetings when people sit in with me, because my style is basically not great in random people and all that sort of thing, people get really impressed when I'm somewhat soft sometimes.
Now, that's just as well, I don't think that, but the point is that the fellow like Randall, he'll sit you first, maybe we can, we can, we're on time.
You see what I mean?
I think there's a need for rest.
Mr. President, you have helped your cause with a tenacity and a real strength.
Johnson was raging, but he was really not strong.
You're just the opposite.
You're very calm and quiet.
Yeah, we're very calm and quiet.
One of the things we've done that's been good in here is to lace into that idea that happened at St. Lester yesterday.
Nice.
but if we just got there we're going to get discipline it's really getting yeah oh christ every time you pick up the paper something's happening as you know
Except in the economic policy, you've got to have some consistency.
Well, everyone that I talk to, I don't know anything about economics, tells me that that's the area where we are most vulnerable.
They don't know anything about it.
It'll come out, I can assure you.
It is coming out.
It's just plain how much.
And that's the trick.
They don't want to breathe.
The thing about a free economy, it's always a big deal.
A regular one will help you grow up.
What do you think?
If you can have a psychological announcement, psychological feedback, it'll have, the market will go up a hundred times within a month.
If you get one, a very rich one.
And no question, I don't know.
See, it's psychology.
People want to just feel better.
The trouble is, you can't do that forever.
in the Eastern schools, and others have beaten the kids down, right?
So they're in, when I talk to the, I talk to the, they talk a little bit, you know, about the work of the five arts, and the five makers, and the hand, you know, and so forth, and the production, and they got George Manning, and Woodcock, and Abel, and the steel workers, or these others, you know, I talk about them a lot, and it's, they were, it's, they're getting about eight times.
They sit there just held up by,
Because I came on the mountaintop and I say, in effect, as we reduce the danger of war between the superpowers, the dangers and the opportunities of peaceful competition and economic fear become enormous and greater.
Uh, just think what a hundred million Chinese can do.
I mean, even under that system.
Think what the Russians can do.
Even under that system.
Think what Western Europe is trying to do.
What the British can do.
Think what the Japanese are already doing to us.
So this means that the Americans have to go.
Then I find out that the real problem here is the spirit of the monarchical people.
Of defeatism.
Of negativism.
Uh, I mean, they have to think also of fear.
They fear to build the SSP.
They fear to build...
because of cancer.
They fear to build a nuclear reactor, which we need for a new source of power, for fear that the planet might blow up.
They fear to go ahead.
They fear to go ahead in anything.
But they want to break our spirit.
The opponents.
I think they do.
America was great when it was trusting.
All right.
Well, I was getting those, hey, what's your, what is your, oh, I'm sorry, I'm just curious.
I'm curious.
No.
I'm sorry to tell you that.
But then last night, he said, you know, he's many to me.
Well, I don't know what he means.
Well, he says, I've been out.
He says, don't talk about the war.
Despite all the papers, they're only talking, they're only talking about the economy.
What I mean is that it may be that the left-wing bastards may have overplayed their hands here.
I think, Mr. President, that the war is not being as it is in this country because the casualties are down.
They've made another run at us.
They have these papers out.
That's an old story.
Who the hell who shot John?
Henry Patton said to me yesterday that he didn't think about this in the Senate.
The feeling of great division is about the masculine resolution.
What he said, they're looking for exit.
And I have the sense that when Abril Harriman comes in here to wail about what can he do to help.
Yeah, what can he do so we can work together.
Well, I don't want to, you know, we don't want to.
But it shows that when they think they've got you on the run, they're merciless.
And I think it's turning.
They know that when Le Duc Tro showed up in Paris, they can twist it and turn it.
Something must be going on.
Because I think we have almost 50-50 chance to break that one this summer.
By the end of July, we'll know.
There can only be two more rounds before we knock it.
I'll get those papers done for you, Mr. Grant.
I'll give you the copies, Mr. President, of the statements that I'm planning to make.
And that will give you a feel of the things that we have to do to watch.