Conversation 538-005

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

That's actually the only question.

It raises the point that you might want to talk to Mitchell before you go.

To be sure he knows of your, personally, of your interest in pursuing the criminal prosecution.

John thinks he's a good student.

He's a good student.

Mark told me that.

I think just kind of running out of steam and I'm sure he's got an Uber.

I talked to him this morning and called him and he said he had been fortified over his investigations.

I went direct to Uber and not to the Attorney General and asked him to keep you periodically, keep reporting to you periodically on progress there.

Yeah, I think that in talking with Mitchell, he's starting to get the signal of what the problems are.

I'm not really sure if he just mentioned it coming in the way of the meeting this morning.

He's going over to London.

Yeah, he doesn't leave until it's Friday.

That's why it's not Wednesday night.

The evening is Thursday.

That's, I think, what he thought.

Well, I know before Mitchell leaves that you want to be sure that he doesn't leave any doubt that the Justice Department, that they're going to go ahead.

John, no doubt.

Go ahead.

Is that right?

No.

Doesn't appear to be true.

Yes.

I mean, is it?

Yes.

Presenting us with something for a decision or a motion.

No, his concern was not a question, but simply an implementation, as I understand it.

What I'm getting at is that these media briefings that we have to recognize are really for another purpose, or whatever we want to call it.

It's a longer range purpose.

It has to do with the editors supporting me there.

And my preparation for them has to be along those lines.

And I just don't think that, I just don't think, even though you have the news reporters, of course reporters, they always do.

But it does change the characters that they haven't told by film or anything.

It just changes their mind.

And I also, that too, occurs to me now that I've been on television one hell of a lot in the last three days, you know.

And that we'd be on television then, the arrival or something, I'd be on.

There's a few people I hope out in Kansas City, many now.

If you see some, there'll be a thing.

But I don't have to be on talking.

I just don't feel it particularly.

I think that I mentioned a minute after trying to work last night as to what I ought to cover in this thing.

I decided not to get into the even tangentially into the press thing due to the fact that I think it's best

Can we ignore it until I'm ready to get it straight off, flat off, and say, and not believe any impressions about this or that or the other thing?

I think that's the best way to be honest.

But I think that bothers me.

Yeah.

I understand your point on that.

On the other hand, those sessions are so good, and everybody there, all our people, the other people, there's a chance of getting some of that on TV.

That's true.

That is true.

The thing that bothers me about letting them televise this one is that by implication, it focuses some attention on this as if there's going to be some... That's true, too, and I don't expect to see anything.

As a matter of fact, it's going to be a little more low-key because there's too much, too much, and I just don't want to leave any impressions.

I can't leave any impression on anything, so I'm also regarding negotiations as

And Vietnam, because I don't know, see, I don't want to raise any false hopes.

I don't want a big show.

He's got enough going on that now.

He is now.

I also have to play at very, very low key.

And my God, I must say, when I looked at the stuff that's just prepared, there's not much for me to say out there.

It's the idea.

Well, they live their good, so they ought to be on television.

Well, then sometime I'll do something like that on television, but I'll do it on television.

You know what I mean?

I'll do it with that in mind, so that they'll, so everybody will know I can do the same thing.

All that is, basically, is just getting up and talking to a group of people, hot dogs, in a, in a, in a basically background basis.

I can do that with anybody, sometimes.

I'll do it on television.

And I could give them to a college or I could give them to a, you know, there are all sorts of ways to do that.

I mean, there are all sorts of forums that I could use that instead of making the usual kind of speeches, I'd read one.

I'd just get up and say, I'd like to take you for a trip around the local kids.

That's what all this thing is anyway.

It's just nothing else.

And I just don't feel we should today.

I just don't want to, I tell you, first, we will not say anything about the papers.

and I don't want to indicate that anyone feels nothing.

Second, I'm not concerned about negotiations.

I think there's just too damn much to rise on.

Now, when you get down to it, it's pretty thin, raw.

The rest of it, you know, got whipped up.

And I read that and talked about this stuff.

I sympathize with John, though.

The poor son of a gun has got to work with his goddamn domestic stuff, and it's dull.

It really is.

It isn't all the men that are in it, you know what I mean?

I know that, you know, they get involved in revenue sharing, and they think that's the biggest goddamn thing there is.

And that's followed on the environment, you know, whatever.

He just thinks it's wonderful, you know?

So if we get revenue sharing, it will be a big thing.

Like the post office.

Post office is a great thing.

Revenue sharing would be a great thing just like that.

I have no more effect than that on the part of people in concern.

I mean, so it goes from one pocket to another.

That's all.

That's all there is.

How do you run the gun?

How do you run the machine?

Oh, we have no use in fooling ourselves.

I think on that, but I read your help.

I'm very hopeful to see...

I'm curious if that's what they came up with without your product.

Is that right?

Or did you product themselves?

We've talked about it.

We had a couple sessions of discussion and I asked them to go back and figure out what their own themes were.

And then what I've done there is try to pull out the substance of what they come up with.

And the interesting thing is the degree of unanimity.

The decisive leadership thing as far as the

personal characters is, some put it in different ways, but that's what they come, it's that thing that they come up with.

The issue is it's universally peace economy.

That we would know.

Well, no, we know the first thing.

I'm strongly with the thing that you've made that peace is, we've got to make it a positive issue that it isn't just

to make it out of Vietnam.

It's the world global leadership.

For Sunday, at least the preliminary figure is the same, 1537.

You were right.

It's just kind of interesting.

It's amazing that it just hangs in there.

We'll get it later today.

I think that's pretty legal.

It's going to be a larger figure apparently.

How much is it?

It wouldn't be off much.

Forty-eight.

Forty-nine.

Fifty-one.

It can't be more than one, maybe two points.

Fifty-thirty seconds.

What do they attribute that to?

They say that there's no change.

No, they're making this thing out of it.

They're saying it's the longest period in history that a presidential approval

I think this stayed exactly on the level.

It's good for us.

It's the first time in their bullet that it stayed even that long.

Something like that.

I think it is good for us.

That's, well, considering that under massive assault, that's the point.

Coming back to this, well, I know Ron's thing.

Gee, that was like when I was down there and did that thing and all that.

Gee, this should have been untold.

in this thing in Rochester, in Rockland.

Come on, I said, should it be on television?

Sure.

I do things in the cabinet.

I said, should it be on television?

Now, maybe now, maybe what we've got to do is find a way.

Maybe put the camera, put something in the cabinet where I'm just talking to the people, you know, and give them that kind of record.

Do that on television.

But have the camera where we control the son of a bitch like nobody's business.

You know what I mean?

And do it at least in England.

I don't know whether we can do it with...

I agree, I agree.

But I don't feel right now is the one I want to do on television.

Let's put it that way.

I just don't feel it's the one.

I'd rather wait until we have a something.

Okay.

The slogan thing that's all about on September 2nd, probably the day talking is done instead.

Well, they say they like to do it.

They enjoy it.

Wait for the record to be centered.

That gives us now what we're going to go through trying to get people required to have anything.

I said, no, no due time.

This isn't the way it's going to be.

They're trying to get us to do some more things before, you know, we can hope some more positive progress and some other response.

They're saying, well, they're not going to get it done.

They don't.

They have, of course, the slightest idea.

They think we want to come so much that we'll pay any price.

So, and I told him, no, Bruce, Henry, Henry.

So Henry just sets up the arrangements, and you go.

Kind of like that in English, right?

My traditional.

I don't know anything about Chinese.

Whenever we go to China, it might be convenient with the Soviets, and that's more productive.

I'll go for Brennan if that is.

Never had that on.

I'm curious.

Yeah, we'll get a better reading later today.

His last one was 49, 37.

My record was 49, 38.

One of them was 49.

The others had been in 50.

I'm not sure which one was which.

And the district group was gone for number 148, 37.

I don't think the Supreme Court ruling the paper should be published is going to hurt me.

Do you?

No.

We didn't get the... Huh?

I think there was more...

impacted the papers in the first couple of weeks than it was last week.

Really?

Yeah.

I don't think the courtroom is going to have all that.

I don't know.

He wrote a little bit on you.

I don't see why.

The real question, the real problem, I've got to get Colson going better.

I know he, when I say going better, he's doing everything he can.

Yeah.

This thing, as I told you yesterday, we've got to keep Vietnam as an issue, and we've got to pin the whole Johnson County paper canal on these bastards on every side.

And that's why we've got to get, that's why we've got to start getting out stuff, and it ruins it.

You know what you were talking about?

We've got to be sure to get out the papers, get out the stuff before our second term and so forth.

Don't worry about that.

We're going to get everything out we can now.

In case we... You see why?

The reason, Father, is that they won't disappear forever.

Well, we need it.

We need it thoroughly.

We need it.

It's every picture we can.

What the hell do you think they're doing to us?

I just can't get over the fact...

I can't get over the fact that... And I'm just pissed off that we didn't think of it earlier.

Here I sat for eight years not forgetting any secret stuff at all.

And here we've got Bundy on a secret list, Harriman on a secret list.

Now, that's one thing I've got to have tomorrow.

Now, Hague I know is busy, but tell him I've got to have the list of all Johnson and Kennedy administration people who have queries at the present time.

I have to have that.

Now, that I've got to have, understand?

I don't need to have the chicken parents, you know.

But if Bundy and his staff have it,

At McNamara, I don't know if any McNamara staff may have a say with me.

I could get them, but I'm going to stop them all.

Don't you agree?

I sure do.

Why do we let those sons of bitches have references that we don't?

Will you tell me?

There's no reason.

They have no need to know.

They're not involved in policy.

No.

Okay, we'll go.

That's what we're doing.

This is a good time to do it.

You do it as a, as a perfectly proper, the court's told you that it's your responsibility.

Keep the documents secure, so as part of that, here.

Drastically reducing the spread of clearances.

I agree with that, I don't think.

I don't think they'll speak, I mean, no, no, uh,

It'll be awfully hard for the press or anybody else to raise that one, won't it?

Of course, they said it's our fault that it got out, but why God didn't let it get out again?

We take responsibility.

Even the New York Post and their Sunday editorial late.

But they said, incredible flip.

They turned around and took a backhand swipe at us.

They said the administration should have done a better job of keeping the papers locked up.

They shouldn't have let them get out.

And it was just a copy of what we saw during our administration.

The guy carried him out before he left.

They said, we didn't.

You understand, I'm sure Colson just let him get away with that.

Now, those papers left in 1968.

Son of a bitch carried him out of there.

I don't think we got anybody on Billy next time.

We're honest.

We're visiting him.

Now everybody's, we got 30 people on top of it, nobody on top of it.

It's one of those old times.

You can't find a man yet, can you?

Yeah, we're getting here at this point.

We'll make a decision to get it there in time.

Just one.

It'd be on full time.

I think that my rattling around talking about government sharing and government reorganization are what you have been doing.

Or, you know, not as much as they wanted, you know what I mean?

We really, what we, we have wasted ourselves in two salient messages, haven't we?

We really have.

In terms of picking things that really count, that's the point that we've got to bear in mind.

We have not yet the things that count.

We have become obsessive.

I have allowed, that's why this session in California is so important, I have allowed the domestic staff, who are not politically oriented, but they try to come up with something of what's good for the country, you know,

And by God, they had sold him both times on things that, no wonder they were hard to write speeches.

They put an ending in them, you know.

There was nothing in it that, so we had to put a record around it.

People's had it in their hands, particularly the last one.

So, I began to get down to it and said, you've got to get to these gut issues in terms of

Well,

I'm going to knock that off.

You tell us everything.

I just don't want to cancel that.

I've got to play it too close to the vest.

Both.

On everything, you know what I mean?

This time, I just, I don't want anything to hypo.

This meeting, it's got to be the lowest key that I've done.

Okay.

Let's see what it says here.