Conversation 549-012

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He says try to keep the court case on Ellsberg.

Yeah.

We don't want to rush that, and I wouldn't rush Holsford, getting back to the point that you and I aren't so well aware of, and you keep hammering me along the justice road, that we are, aren't, is basically our publicity right now.

We don't want to go under that again.

Yes, sir.

First, are you on your tax system?

Are we doing everything we can?

The term that came out of my business council four or five months ago, they said we've got to minimize the disincentives in the tax system.

I don't know what the hell we're talking about here, but, of course, you maximize the consenting by, as John Connolly says, by a tremendous way, instead of a depreciation.

And we may need to keep talking about that at a greater time.

I don't know.

All right.

That's an interesting...

I think we have to know what the disincentives are.

Yeah, I don't know what they are.

Let me find out.

I hear this from businessmen, and I don't know, and I just don't know whether you're going to get it out of the Treasury Department.

Let me find out.

I don't have the same confidence in those IRS people that most people do, because they are bureaucrats.

He said I didn't know, so this is his own fault.

Just like my old John Alexander, he said, my God, the main change is a coat.

Yeah, it's a coat.

It's a coat, yeah.

If you would think of that now, also on the tax front, too.

We're leaving as a colony to an extent, but how, where is the ball there?

Is it blending, or tongue, or food?

Well, it's mixed, and I've got to sit down for a certain time.

I think that's as important a city as we'll make from a living standpoint.

I thought, or one of my fellows said to me,

I have one of my thoughts full-time on this so that I'm informed.

Flanagan has the White House staff responsibility as the White House staff lead, and Connolly has the production responsibility.

Now, he's got the staff, he's got the experts, the lawyers, and so on over there.

Those three people are working together as a group on bringing something back to you within a week.

Can I come back to the whole proposition?

Do you or do you not want us to push Flanagan in the same direction?

I do not.

That's my opinion.

I don't think Rogers, no I think Rogers really desperately needs somebody like him and realizes that somebody that frankly is up with the White House but can't be fine, somebody else is willing to do that job.

Oh, I would guess so.

I would think so.

Somebody like, well, I think of two or three others.

I, Peter came in and talked to me about...

Yes, and the thing that occurs to me on this Flanagan thing,

is that Everly has resigned from American Standard and come to us and said he'd like to join the administration.

We've got a foreign economic thing.

Oh, is that so?

I didn't know that.

And that's a real problem.

I told you what Peterson told me about it, and I told you that you and I discussed it before.

That's great.

Well, if somebody liked that, we could get over that mistake.

And, well, that's a look for somebody.

I was going to add Peterson look for somebody.

Great.

Then I decided to just keep my... Another point that somebody raised, because this is going to be one hell of a thing, you know, this business of...

When we start, we over-export rebates and export down to licensed sales, which we probably, we very well may have to go for.

Because the stands went very well, I thought, in this restaurant industry statement or whatever we can get to point out.

This whole balance of trade thing is not something that just happened this year.

It's been coming.

I mean, it got out in the Johnson period about one week ago.

And now it's, you know, it's one of those changes.

Well, he's a first-class pilot.

I see why you're so impressed.

But don't let him be.

He's the kind of guy that I think you ought to handle like you ought to.

Give him a job and let him do it.

Don't let him just be another wheelchair pilot.

He's got to do well.

I've got now to get the agreement of everybody concerned around here, Peterson, Schultz, and Sands particularly, to having this guy take responsibility for this, for the whole thing, in the research, the R&D, technology, foreign and domestic.

There is no need for the agreement.

I ordered it.

Well, you just told me.

That's great.

That's fine.

You put, just send me a piece of paper and I'm going to say, I have designated, and you just send me a piece of paper.

That piece, I don't think you're going to crack around with this anymore.

I just don't like to have these things.

And they come arguing, and they all come at me different ways.

I just decided he's got to be a man.

Because I think he's got to be strong.

I thought he was just an airplane, but he obviously thinks much broader.

He's got contracts, too, all over.

I mean, like, you get black and so on, and like, no freedom.

And he's got a way of getting next to people.

And it's such a big thing.

Oh, one other thing on a bold thing.

Somebody told Billy Graham, he said, he's got, of course, lines that are this and whatever.

He says the lefties are trying desperately to get their next post, trying to get some sort of a name law or something to have to allow students to vote on campus.

That's right.

What is the situation on that?

There's nothing we can do about it.

No, that's up to those tiny generals of every state.

We had to be, well, we got to get...

And there's nothing we can do.

But now, there's an effort to get federal legislation.

And we'll take care of that on the timeline.

There's nothing in right now.

I guess you couldn't do that on the same basis that you did it better in Seoul.

No, I don't think so.

What they're trying to do, the federal legislation that Mondale and Baye and two or three others are talking about is a male issue.

I'm not so sure.

I'm not so...

I don't know either.

When you sit, when you think that the, it isn't going to come soon, but the war on the way with the, with the China man, I mean, that has had, that insult has had a rather, it's,

dramatic effect on young people, not all, but certainly not all.

It changes so much.

Instead of our being frankly supported by the street, as much, as much by the uneducated, grade school education, hard hats, et cetera.

That was something that was actually the Catholic

This is the kind of stuff that, bless me, I wish they were out.

But you go out among the salt-headed liberals who are basically the students.

And it takes loose some preconceptions.

It may move us into this field.

It means that we have a lot of room in the area that the other side figures theirs.

They, and people that we lose, do not go to that format.

They're more likely to go to Wallace, or to stay home, or reluctantly, between the two, between an ultra liberal and somebody that is terminally, they can't go to Teddy Kennedy, or Dusky, or, frankly, Humphrey.

Over me, anybody who's a conservative cannot do that, sir.

So that's the real point.

I think it's a very significant political shift, far more so than anybody.

We've got to see if we can continue to write it that way.

But I think the thing to write on it is the border policy action to them.

I can't, I just can't help but think that that's their vehicle.

I'll tell you the other thing that is going to jar, and I don't know what he decided on this, but the old Agnew thing will send a signal through that element that is profound.

Just profound.

The agne is a big symbol.

You mean that could really affect my support?

Yes, sir.

You think I can trade?

No, but among that element, among the 18 to 24 degrees.

The other point I want you to handle this time, I guess there's nothing for you to do about that.

You might give Billy Graham a call.

There's not a thing we can do on it.

Once somebody suggests to me, Don, that a letter might go from me, as a drug king, to the editors of all papers.

I mean, just a personal letter in regard to the drugs, saying that this is a major problem, that here's what we're doing, or something like that.

Not a whole goddamn, you know, pack of stuff, but a letter that they would re-print.

And it might also go to the television editors of each television station around the country.

Does that make any sense?

We don't use the letter very much.

I know that when we do, I write a letter to an editor to a paper and use it.

Now, the difficulty has to be with that.

Of course, if you write papers, we're competitive in a town, and each of them has a letter to the president or a judge, for whatever reason.

Times in the, take the, you know, the Star and Post, they wrote the same thing.

If you think it's a good idea, let me, you know, I'm just, I don't need to get into it.

All right.

You don't need to come back.

All right.

Another one.

There's a fellow named Harder Jones in California.

Heard of him?

No.

He's very good in this field.

Now, he's one of the coaches in that third chapter.

He's more of a hard-line deal than the rest.

I've heard it from several people.

I tell them, for God's sake, skip Jones to work.

He's more my line-up than I am.

Another thing, I'll be sure to go over it.

Thank you.

I mentioned to Bob one thing that he raised with you.

I want to get rid of the very effective counter-attack on these clouds Tuesday and the next part of time and so forth.

They're trying to do that job on, well, it's basically on me disagreeing with those over there with the status quo.

But we've got such a beautiful case there, you know what I mean?

It's like one of those where we know we're on the wrong way.

And I was just thinking, for example,

It's not a bad story to get out sometime.

I mean, I didn't think it hurt so much.

I mean, I gave up that.

Yeah, Bob and I talked about it at $75,000.

That's a hell of a thing.

That's a lot of money.

The Fisher Island thing.

A lot of money is lost in the meantime.

It's not worth buying them.

I think they want 17 million for the damn island now.

Well, except that right now, on the basis of market value, if we do get hit by Tuesday,

And there's apparently some question as to whether they'll really run it.

But if we do, I think we can come strong and back with some of these things.

I don't like it yet, but I mean, it's so, and also the tactics that they use, you know, air, yeah, and all that sort of thing.

God, it's really shocking.

They must have spent a pot of money on this, too.

I've kept guys down in Florida for weeks and weeks.

They don't do that for their, they don't have a paper that's waste money like that.

There must be some Kennedy stuff in this.

I'm pinning on him.

I'm pinning on his government.

Yes, all the issues.

Moyers, his old alliance, he's out of there now.

But you know, the guy who's written all the letters is somebody named Rosenzweig, or Rosenblatt, who's a managing editor up there.

And it's a, and then also there's all the names of

Oh, is that so?

I didn't know he was in it.

Now that I didn't know.

Yeah, well, his name is in it.

Walden has been down there.

And Doug and both of us are...

It's clean, sir.

Yeah, yeah.

And there's a tremendous amount of use of it.

What the hell did you say about a guy that buys his own property?

I mean, it's a business.

It's a really private market.

Well, so much for that.

Okay, we'll be, we are always in a process on anything.

It won't be with Garvey, the proposal, me, his matters, if they ever get into him.

He is all over the place.

He says he needs to get $1 million last year to pay his loan.

John, you know what a law firm is.

Well, of course, I was in the partnership, but if we made $150,000, $175,000, this is what I'm going to make.

That's what we're going to call it.

These guys in this town, like Clifford and Edward Bennett Williams, they gave him a huge sum.

All right, I'm through with that now, Tom.

Well, I want to ask you about something.

It has to do with Elliot, and it has to do with this whole Chow case.

The, uh...

I feel he was a little embarrassed.

No, it isn't a question, it's just a question of evidence.

Do you ever recall Elliot coming to you, or anybody from State coming to you, to try and get you to reverse bunker stand on Chow?

Okay.

They'd probably better ask him to whether they would have paid him.

That I will.

Nobody ever talked to me or... That's what I was curious about.

Okay.

All right.

If anybody thinks I did, I heard.

No, but that's the one missing link in this whole thing.

Now, Bill Rogers said they never came to him.

Never called me.

And so, okay.

Very good.

I just, I read the magazine, too.

Go ahead.

I'm going to shout, too.

You better ask them.

They think, you see, Don, people could well assume that if they come to him, they're going to come to me.

Okay.

But any of them are needed.

All right.

Granite City National Steel merger.

Signal is in to Mitchell.

He is now in the process of preparing a rationalization for permitting the merger.

And so...

He says that technically the fire may be right, but he understands the overrated considerations.

Yesterday... Did you ever get the number of Jews that were in BLS?

I got their biographies yesterday.

I'm having that analyzed.

Yeah, well, you can tell a lot of...

But by looking at the biographies closely, Todd's going to be able to find out a lot of names.

Yeah, you've got whites made names and things like that in there.

It'll help.

Well, it's just a point, but I have a feeling there could be quite a bit of room.

Well, there's a package of resumes like that that we're going through right now.

The only other thing is that yesterday afternoon, Matt Owings brought in his study on your mall property down here.

and made a presentation which Flanagan and Yarmouth and I sat in on.

I had to duck out to come over to the Magruder meeting.

Flanagan feels that it's very good.

Does he?

Yes.

You sold it?

Well, that's it.

It's cold.

What is it?

What do you want to do?

It's like Tivoli.

It's almost no buildings.

Tivoli?

Yeah.

Almost no buildings at all.

But lots of very mature greenery.

The use of berms and geographic changes in the land.

An underground parking garage under it all.

It'll park nearly 4,000 automobiles.

Excluding automobiles and restaurants.

Restaurants.

Is there restaurants?

Yes.

Little bandshells.

The restaurants, however, must not be run with a gun.

Well, I think any restaurateur would give his I.T.

to the M.I.C.

Well, of course, that's where Tivoli is, you know.

Everyone's run by a private operator.

Oh, yes.

My favorite place in the whole world.

But it is really sort of sound there in the middle of a very large county.

But Tivoli is right where we're going.

Yeah, yeah.

Unbelievable, isn't it?

They see a lot of parallels between this and Tivoli.

You know the very idea came when, I mean, it's the way it came.

I'm interested he came with this because I didn't think they would.

When they came in, when he came in with this, with the one hand, I said, do something like Tivoli.

I said, you know what Tivoli is.

And he sparked up a little bit.

But I just didn't...

He's been back.

He made a trip.

They took a lot of pictures of Tivoli.

Then he went on, and he went to Stockholm.

But there isn't that much room, though, is there, here?

That's the problem.

Tivoli is not very big.

Tivoli is very small.

But it's like Disneyland.

They've used every square inch, and they've backed things up to one another and put them under and over and that kind of thing.

Yeah, he's on that commission, and he thinks we can.

And so...

What we'll do now, I've asked him, this is all on slides in movies, and I asked him to put something down on paper

And I think it'll be of interest to you.

I don't need to see it for proof.

No, we gave him the go-ahead.

We gave him the go-ahead yesterday.

You see, this is something that's exciting.

And frankly, every time I fly over to that place and I call a cop, I see the poor little kids lined up in those horrible, big restaurants.

You know, kids, it's fine, but it's better than an outhouse.

But it isn't right to go to Washington to go on a trailer.

Well, and there'll be this.

Playgrounds for kids that only kids can get into because of the height of the gate.

And when their parents want to go to a museum, they have to pay admission to get into this place as a controller, but not a very big admission.

It'll be police.

The kids can go in there and play.

They'll be under supervision.

Their parents can go to the National Art Gallery.

And then they can come back.

And there's kind of a children's world concept with teeter-totters and swings and all that kind of stuff.

It really is very exciting.

And then, excluding all automobiles from the whole mall area, the Smithsonian's and all the way up to the Capitol, and running a series of little shuttle buses,

in circles, so that you get on one and you go part way through a monument, you get off, then on another one you have to be buses.

Well, they're like this little, have you seen this little tram they have out here?

It's little open cars, like little old street cars, sort of, and hooked together, so that there's a, and then there's a center of Colson, and it travels at five miles an hour,

And the people come, they park their car, and they're done with their car, and they can go around and see the whole thing.

The museums, the institutions, they go to the Capitol, see the monuments, and come back to their car at the end of the day.

It really makes sense.

So that's all I have on my mind today.

Coming back to the things we were talking about.

On the economic side, I am excited.

The best thing to do, you've got to have a group in there where I've got to meet with them to just talk about this subject and think about it.

And that's really a combination of all the speakers.

I'm cracking, and I'm closing the resources that are basically getting a lot of attention.

It's one of those things, you've got to have someone there who will not let you go overboard on getting some friend.

Then, however, on the sales side, I think

I just want you to get it.

The sales side of it, you want the speakers are basically .

All the domestic economy, and not just raising the problems with the same guy down in Atlanta, not never the crack, and of course not Colston.

Colston, frankly, keeps them out for reasons.

Then we add Spence and Hutch to that.

And as long as I can put you up to force him or try to get him to stay still and not repeat, he can do it in a negative way by attacking the media where they're extraditing the economy.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

But then, the other thing was I told him to go through this whole sub-camp.

I had to pick the best speakers in the company the past years to do it.

Now let's get into it.

What I want to do here, John, is a team of the company, a crew of the company, so we're getting on this good mission.

Just like we have a right to share, except maybe even more so.

In other words, let's start going out and freezing and all that sort of thing.

We've got a few of you.

We've got some of you.

We'll have our bad news.

We've got our good news.

But I'm not concerned about the bad news.

The comments are that way.

They go bad.

They're bleeding a number down.

And some are going in other directions.

The other retail sales actually will be good.

Unemployment drops.

Some are probably down.

I don't know.

Did you give that to him?

I gave him the idea, told him to talk to me.

I assume he's going to talk to you.

I'll check others involved.

I'll check them.

What I mean is I want you to know that this is what I think.

If I really want to have them, then maybe we've got to put a gun load guy in charge of that.

Now, generally speaking, we have Colson in charge of that.

But I'm thinking of a more of a kind of a deal.

Yeah, I made a note to see if we can develop something like that.

I've got it.

Morgan himself has to stay on schools right now, and when you talk to Justice, have you got any other nuggets besides the other, you know, are we, are we, how about the, how about the safe and everything we're doing in the middle?

Well, we're, we're going, instead of going after Brookings, we're going to go after Gelt personally.

I see.

And that's under those four places that those

The locksmiths.

That's something I was on again this morning, to get this information.

And we're going to have to put a guy right in that intelligence apparatus over there who will report to me on what is available each day.

So I arranged with the justice guys, that's why we were over there this morning, so that we have our guy who sits right in there and sees the raw data as it comes in every day.

And he'll feed us the stuff that's available.

Now, on the four locksmiths,

They've done interviews of all four.

We know the calls were made to all four.

All four deny ever receiving the calls.

And so something is very, very odd in that whole set of circumstances.

Well, obviously, obviously that somebody is papering this thing over.

We know the calls were made because they were made from a hotel that keeps a record of calls.

That's right.

So I got these boys working on that today.

There's all kinds of fertile stuff here.

You can just imagine a congressional investigation.

You come in and you put that call record into evidence, and then you call this fellow as a witness, his locksmith, and you say, you know, here it is.

He just got all kinds of inferences out of that.

Well, there's a ton of raw data like that over there, just a ton of them.

Now, the other thing, incidentally, that I probably better tell you about, it develops that both McNamara and Clifford still have the 47 Rodney.

And, well, we instructed that they be picked up.

And Laird has countermanded that instruction to his general counsel.

I don't know.

I've got to give him a call and find out.

Just say that Laird's either putting us in the hell of a spot here because we're picking one from all people in the state by airmen.

Right.

And others say, how come we have a double standard on defense?

My God.

Yeah.

That's like a gun at your head.

Well, the idea of making 17 copies of the program and spreading them around.

But anyway, that's one where I have... Do you see any direction?

Are you going to get it back from McNamara?

No.

He might be a different case, actually.

No, he's not a different case at all.

He's going to get it back for the reason that he wants our support on the World Bank thing.

I want you to tell Kissinger to see what he can do.

And he needs to be ordered to get it back.

I just cannot have this.

It'll be a bombshell.

A bombshell here in terms of our getting support.

for a very long time.

You can't tell Rodgers about that.

I'm sorry.

I actually turned it over.

Volunteer, turn over those documents.

All right.

Johnson said that McNamara ran so quietly that only two people in his administration would not turn over their, or did not turn over their private property.

Is that right?

Good idea.

I've often thought in meetings that you have that it wouldn't be a bad idea for you just to say, I would prefer that no one except Paul had made notes in those meetings.

or whatever, you know, just because, or Ray Price, if he happens to be there, whoever your notetaker is, so that there are not two or three versions of a meeting kicking around.

It just seems to be...

Remind me of this whenever it is that time of the week.

All right.

There are some, and they ought to take notes.

Yeah.

Or it doesn't matter one way or the other, but there's some...

I think we've been able to use the chance.

I'll mention this to Bob, and maybe the thing we could do is just pass you a note if we see that this is happening in a meeting, and you could just say, because of the nature of the meeting,

I'm going to follow my usual policy of having just one note taker.

And, uh, play it off that way.

George called me when I was over in Mitchell's office and said that Ziegler was getting a heavy dose of questions about those two leaks.

And, um, oh, the radio and the wires are pulling this morning that Arthur Burns wanted a salary increase.

and that it was reported that the White House was proposing doubling the size of the Board of Governors.

George got a call from our bureau last night, very distressed about this.

He said that he had always let it clean in exemplary light and kept himself free from attack, and he was very concerned and upset about it.

And on and on.

And George, of course, said he didn't know anything about it, which was true.

And Ziegler is denying any knowledge of the proposal to increase the size of the Fed.

And he is saying that there were proposals presented to the president for the increase in the number of salaries in the executive branch, which the president, in view of his policy toward the economy government, declined to approve.

One of those was a proposal which would have provided for an increase in the channel of the Fed next year from now.

But he's not aware of any request on the part of the chairman for an increase, but it was one of the number of increases that the president declined to grant.

Very old one.

So that's kind of the proper posture to argue for all those reasons.

But it's just as well that...

Oh, sure, it's had its effect.

What do you think of the treatment?

I think it's, I don't know, well, I think it's obviously affected because it got a loose hole in the column.

Connelly?

Well, it's a, it, Connelly said, I just read about the fact that you haven't got a loose hole in the column.

Well, that's late, you guys haven't seen the game.

Well, it hit home.

The UPI called Archer last night, you see, for a response.

And, uh,

So it's getting a little quiet.

The salary increase is the most potent one.

Yeah.

That's getting everybody to understand.

It was on my radio this morning.

I'll never forget it.

Art was sitting there telling us, you know, we should leave the salary increase.

Yep.

Give it back.

Yep.

Remember?

Yep.

Didn't he say that?

Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Well, those two stories were on the radio that I was shaving this morning.

It's a pretty good way to get caught up on the gossip of the day.

Washington Post radio station carries all that stuff.

Yeah, all the gossip.

Let me show you one other thing.

This is one we probably ought to get into a computer suit.

This is true.

Pablo Gaston.

This requires a response, but he points out that our total new requests for foreign aid assistance are actually, instead of aid, related to $13 billion.

And it does sort of shake you to realize how we have procurated in this field.

We always think of foreign aid as around $3 to $4 billion.

But you see, what you do not have here, for example, you've got the International Security Assistance.

Okay, that's the military side.

You've got bilateral assistance.

That brings you up to your $2.9, about $3 million.

But then you've got the President's Foreign Assistance Continuity, $100,000.

Then you've got your development bank, $500,000.

Inter-American Development Bank, supplemental, $486,000.

You know, there it is.

International Bank for Reconstruction and Development, somehow 246. International Development Association, 320.

Asian Development, 100 million.

Expanded Modo Laterals.

Receives and recovers from previous credits, probably this book here.

Military Assistance, which is under Defense Budget, of course, 22.

Then you go on to go down to MAGS and Missions.

Military, Exporting Port, MAGS, got that in at two and a half million.

with about 4 billion, 3 billion in it.

Then just Turkey and its Peace Corps, but PLO is a billion and three contributions to international organizations, I have six for education, one for other students, et cetera, et cetera.

Well, what I have at hand is, first, we've gone over to Oregon, moving toward the multilateral,

Right.

We naturally are stuck with all of them now.

But we get them all out of purpose, John.

We lose control.

Oh, it's development banks and funds and all that stuff?

Yes.

I'm talking about you and Peterson.

Okay.

You can whack around with all this stuff.

Okay.

But it's still that way.

All right.

Second.

And I believe, as a comment of myself, that we get more stroke by having these things on a bilateral basis.

And this is the kind of world we live in at the present time.

We're getting screwed around the world.

And now we better reverse our deal and start getting back to the bilateral deal.

I mean, right.

Well, you know, I'm sitting here listening to McGregor talk about these airplane deals.

The way you make those deals is entirely bilateral, and with the government coming in and saying, well, we can loosen up some 3% money to make this deal go.

Would you be sure that Connolly gets the Reuters brief on that point?

Sure, sure.

And Peterson, I talked to Peterson, and Connolly just said they got it.

You and I used to kind of like sit together and have an answer.

Sure.

I feel that that's what really triggered me.

I feel that we have got to start playing a harder game.

We don't give anybody anything, and that's what we're going to do for us.

I went over from that meeting, I went over to Carmel Club, where they had Tom Evans and the National Committee.

I don't know if Bank was trying to raise some money.

Yeah.

And they called on me, and I said, I've just come from a meeting where the president had a report on this subject, and I gave him a little of the feel of it.

And I said, you know, there's 10 years of dust on this.

The government has just lost the ball completely.

And I know you all are interested in this, as do businessmen in your industries and so on.

I had about eight guys come up to me afterwards.

and say, God, it's so wonderful to hear that the President's concerned about this.

We feel like we're fighting this battle.

About the need for partnership of government and business and international trade is what I finally came down to.

And they said, I think that the President's really thinking about this problem.

Well, of course he is.

I haven't gotten through his grant.

Yeah.

He did it today.

I'm having lunch with him in a few minutes.

He did it today.

Now, I think the, I think we're going to get a, we've just got to shake up, we've got to shake State right to its foundations, not to have these little games, but we're, they're acting as if, it's really, Don Kendall summarized it pretty well, said a few months ago when he was in New Hampshire, he said, in the 60s, in the 50s, the late 40s, the 50s,

We used trade for the purpose of serving our foreign policy.

Now we have to use trade for the purpose of serving our domestic policy.

Now it's just as cold as that.

And our foreign policy has got to come and get a second priority.

And we've just got to start dealing with this stuff.

We're getting screwed all over the world.

Well, we've had it so fast for so many years.

We've been able to just go out in the jungle and hit the persians.

Can you imagine that?

That French put together an industrial consortium.

Now that's amazing, in a way.

I think that they make it to that point.

But I would like a recruiter, I mean, I'd like when you talk to the county and the regulators, set yourself a P-10 in the next few days.

I'd like for them, let's get more specific in this field, I'd like for them to come up with what men

As I said, I asked him, what kind of deals are we doing?

We said to the Japanese, well, no, we're not going to buy this unless you do this or that.

See my point?

Now, one place I don't want this race is with George Holstein.

And for obvious reasons, he doesn't believe, you know what I mean?

I mean, George lives in this field.

I think I'm afraid it lives too much in the net of the land it used to be, but it is no more.

It probably was, but it certainly isn't anymore as far as we're concerned.

That is, well, the market will adjust to all these things.

We do not live in a world in which the market works anymore.

We live in a world in which not only the communist economies are in control, and there, of course, we wouldn't do anything without getting the quid pro quo, but the free world economies are in control.

That's the point.

The Japanese

the French, the British, none of them do a damn thing like the British and that Rolls-Royce thing.

In fact, now they get the Rolls-Royce contract because they won't buy your airplane unless you buy our engine.

Now what in the name of God are we doing?

That's the whole point.

What kind of trading are we doing like that?

We discourage our guys from doing that.

Our antitrust laws are all against it, for one thing.

There are no tax incentives.

That's the kind of speech I mean to make.

You just can't say, let's be a gang to treat her.

I like that.

It's a nice phrase.

Sapphire to treat her.

We've got to do what we really got to do.

But Peterson has to come down and do it with everyone.

They've got to come down with something here.

It's all tied into the tax thing.

where we specifically say that around the world we're going to start to look to our interests.

That's the speech I want prepared.

I want it prepared in that way so that American business, American labor will say, thank God, see, thank God, we're finally looking to our interests.

They want to hear each other.

They really want to hear it.

And the state will just have to go hang.

The other countries have to go hang.

You've got to look for it around the world.

Yeah, and if you can say that this is going to become an instrument of domestic policy, that's a real loud signal.

That's a loud signal.

Okay, I'm going to throw a little of that in the mic.

Yeah, I'm glad to hear you're going.

It's great.

Let me encourage you on one thing.

You know, at your suggestion, I stopped in at Caveman last year.

I think it would be awfully good from several standpoints if you could get to Caveman while you're there.

Well, I didn't plan to.

No, I know that.

It's really almost a disaster to try and build any place there because there's so many camps along the road and all that stuff.

Well, I think it can be worked out smoothly so it doesn't disrupt the encampment as soon as you can get there.

The identity.

of you going to your camp will mean as much as you're coming there at all.

Yeah.

Sure.

Go in.

Sign the thing and have a drink.

See Lowell Thomas and all that.

And then be on your way.

But I think the fact that you went to your camp would, you know, really be an ingredient to the thing.

You may be right about that.

I had thought that I would just do it, but I don't think I'll say anything about it.

I think I'll just, right after the talk, what I might do is just take off the road and go up the road to Caveman and drop in and see if I was all right at the start.

so that the boys in the lab don't have to talk all over the place.

That's it.

You see, it'll just go out.

I think it's, the growth may help work out for me.

Oh, no question.

But I think it's a good idea.

I think it's good for California, for one thing.

I think it's, I mean, if that's California, you know, I think it's good nationally for another reason.

Not just being able to be lousy.

It could be.

But basically it is, there's a hell of a lot of movements and changes there.

And you can get a little feeling of leadership and support at this particular point.

Well, and they feel very proprietary about it.

And you compliment that sense of proprietorship in each of them.

True, but there's something special about that, I think.

At least in their minds.

It is, but that's true of almost any mind.

It's true of the legion of Vietnam.

I've turned out so goddamn many times.

People say, all my old organizations.

But this, what I really did is that I'd like to try to do a little something in regard to getting this more upbeat.

attitude about the problems in the country and so forth.

You might see if you could have Peterson prepared after that.

He'd say, here's what we need to talk about.

Peterson, or even from Root or something about

how the other, how other, how it's fine that the United States looked to, if you're listening, I'm talking about, looked to our interests.

There was a time when we could use our policy to serve our foreign policy.

Now, we, of course, will continue to look to our foreign policy, but we, I discovered, we've got to use our trade policy to serve our domestic policy.

And that's a, that'll give a hell of a smackery to those people.

Don't you think?

Yes.

Yeah, it's a real piece of the setup.

I'll leave that tomorrow on the screen.

All right.

What do you receive?

Yeah, I've seen them in the net.

Just a little while.

It'd be quite a debate if they were in our shop to receive it.

They've been really good setups.

They've also been on our devices.

And, of course, George.

And that's one of the reasons that I like them.

They do not buy this kind of stuff, do they?

That's right.

Well, you know what?

I've got to sell George.

I've got to rework him over because he's got to be winning signs.

You know what happened at Peterson's Camp David sessions?

He pulled in all of the sort of the undersecretary's group of his council for two days.

And he had a cleavage right smack down the middle.

State and the Council of Economic Advisers and the guy from NSC who was there said, there's no problem.

What's all the shouting about?

In fact, you know, we've seen this trend before and so on and it's just your charts are misleading and you can always rate statistics and so on and, you know, and commerce and labor

And Peterson's group and Treasury all said, there's a hell of a problem.

We're going down the tube here.

And there was a two-day ballot.

I thought Rogers said the same thing.

He had agreed.

He listened to Peterson and cared for him.

And also he hasn't heard of business people and he doesn't see, well, this balance of trade thing is going to shake them a little.

I don't like the way that, I think Stan's handled it well, but I don't like for our senators and congressmen, ours, to say it's frightening or anything.

It's not anything to be frightened by.

It's just something to do something.

You know what I mean?

Correct.

I think we, in all these fields, we have to act.

But I don't feel like Schultz ever heard that there is something to be damned concerned about.

Don't you agree?

No question.

Of course, I think probably that the Schultz answer is, well, the American market's big enough anyway.

Why do they know that we care about the world?

But look what he said about Boeing.

Boeing has checked out of the American market.

They've gone off and made their deal with it.

They have their brands abroad.

Sure.

And the other thing is, too, sure, well, that may be the American market that was all involved

Then, but what now?

Forty-five percent of the cars sold in California were European men.

I think he's high on that.

I'm not sure.

One month.

I know that.

Oh, is that?

I don't know.

That is a great number.

No.

Twenty-five percent, I think, is a more reliable average.

But I think what they had one month, because of a lot of wooden cars sold, they had a hell of a high name.

Yeah.

See, the sports cars are great names in California.

Yeah.

I've got a license.

Oh, yeah.

Spice.

Porsche and all that stuff.

Oh, gosh.

It's the fancy thing.

Yeah.

But, uh, it'll change.

People will be dead, and we'll walk on to the others.

Or they don't change.

Maybe everybody's gonna go back to those again.

Mm-hmm.

So if you're, uh, got things their own way right now, they don't need bigger cars, and now they got more jobs.

We're going to have a rundown for you tomorrow on this technology and research development.

Frankly, my objective in having this meeting is to display for everybody the disarray of the federal government in this field.

Ed Davis is going to be there, and a lot of people.

David wrote me a memo and said he thought everything was fine, and that everything was fine on R&D, and that it's all under control, and so on and so forth.

And this will be some education for you, but it will also be an education, I think, for the various players in this thing.

And then is the time to move with Ruder into the picture as your appointee to pull this all together.

Good.

Yes, it's on your schedule.

Now, I don't know whether that's the best use of your time or not.

I kind of think it is.

Well, the problem I have is that I've got these three appearances I have to make this weekend, you know, on Friday, Friday, Saturday.

Whether I ought to, I'd like to do this, but I can't really.

Or why don't we do this?

Why don't I have a dry run of this thing?

But I'd like to hear it say, next Thursday.

First of all, you tell him the President is hurting him.

He has not closed his mind, but he feels extremely strongly about this.

And then next Thursday, we're going to have a presentation, and you lay it out next Thursday.

I'm going to do next Wednesday, I'm going to do an office press conference to get that thing allowed.

That's all we want to have at this point in time.

Okay.

We will keep him posted with George if Schultz needs to see him, he can come in, you know.

Whenever he's got a problem.

But he's just called to come over.

He's like, if Peterson doesn't, you do it, and Schultz doesn't.

But I don't want to just make it up.

If they can handle it, handle it.

But if he wants to come in and talk about it sometime, he can come in.

He's so, of course, it's interesting with the whole economic thing.

You've got to admire George.

I don't think it's a foreign thing.

This is something different on the domestic side.

He's got a lot of guts, hasn't he?

He's got his CEOs.

Well, he thinks we're right.

Yeah, he thinks we're right.

And we could be.

We could be.

I'm not sure.

Well, I...

I'll put it this way.

I'm sure as hell not sure of the other side of the trail.

That's what you agreed to.

That's right.

I mean, I get part of the burden.

I just, I just didn't think that it was true about ours.

It's just horrible stuff.

They've got that income policy.

But what the hell is it?

I noticed that the cracking's got a thing in the post this morning.

Cracking of John Kenneth Gilbert.

I haven't had a chance to read it, so I don't know if it's any good.

But it's got a prominent position anyway.

Good afternoon.