On September 17, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Alexander P. Butterfield, Oliver F. ("Ollie") Atkins, White House operator, unknown person(s), Robert T. Stafford, and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:08 am to 10:03 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 574-003 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
He's got a special color picture that's going to be printed in the special edition of the first E1D.
Yeah, well, what do they want?
Well, what they want is we have a big podcast about this.
So it would be a standing shot, and I'll see you behind the desk.
All right.
Well, I'm around 4 a.m., so this will be a conversation.
All right.
Talk about a little bit of this, and I'll have four live shots.
All right.
It needs to be serious, don't it?
It's always serious.
The question is, we've seated the new senators now.
They would like you to come and just say congratulations because they've got him.
No, no, no, they know.
He's locked.
Aiken and Mencius got him for breakfast this morning.
But they've told him that it's...
The last one, so I'll keep the eyes up.
And we probably ought to bring him in, too.
Just make it sort of courtesy for him.
You know, it's a Saturday thing.
Yeah, early into the morning here.
Well, if you want to be honest with me, if you can just call and say the correct place, we'll grab that from there.
And if you want to come in, we'll check with him and see what it looks like or something.
They've got it locked in.
He's with us anyway.
He voted for the conference report.
Senator Stapp, the new senator of Vermont, please.
I was thinking that something like that is something that maybe we ought to get across to some of our people.
That's your Miami Herald followership.
I haven't seen that.
That's what I was wanting to say.
I could get that around of you.
You know, our people, of course, as usual around here, we're all stirred up and opposed
even time, and so forth, and screw that, and wham, around a bunch of rhetoric, that speech, that rhetoric is, that rhetoric is generally praised.
Oh, yeah, my God, you know, the Chicago Sun-Times, the Miami Herald, those are not papers, frankly, to us.
Oh, the Sun, that's right, huh?
No, it was just here, and we were not disturbed by it, we were amused by it.
It was a flashback, and what they knew was effective.
And I don't know, maybe they missed it, and I don't want to think there's any question about it.
There's a need at all.
I think it's just because they're going to do that every time.
You watch it.
You watch the jump on the thing yesterday of the U.S. saying that a vote against the draft is going to make America the second best thing.
There's a president raving on again about America's second-rate power and all this sort of stuff.
It just fries him.
Let me get a copy of the... from Connie Stewart's office of the New York Daily News Review of Mrs. Sexton's program.
Monday, thank you.
I want to get in some race car drivers.
You know, I understand what's done here.
I thought, you know, you all told me not to go in Calvary or Dr. Perry.
You know what I thought?
Two of those, one of those, the guy that's a race car driver, and he also told me that...
One of his predecessors, whose name escapes me at the moment, has driven an Indianapolis, you know, in a perimeter and other kind of heat.
And he said, you know, the race car drivers have a very great
a simpatico with Esch and Hansenrest.
They're good men.
They're good Americans.
They're very competitive.
They work in their own cars.
They're good mechanics, et cetera, et cetera.
And he says that he went on and on about how great the drivers were.
It's a good bunch of guys.
It's the kind of guys who goes right.
It is a simpatico with Esch and Esch.
It's the kind of guys that were fighter pilots in the war.
Well, I had a tie with Esch when I got back.
And I just thought, well, my god, let's have our kind of people.
Why the hell do we have these horses asking college professors?
And I don't know.
You have the bowlers in today, and you're having pilot and race car drivers in soon.
I like that.
I was thinking of the bowling thing, which might be better.
We thought about that, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Why not do something a little... You've got the American Legion.
I don't think we've got the time to do it, but we'll make the time.
That's not wrong, yeah.
We've got to do it.
You know, I have a lot of bullet people.
Just take them over and let them see the bullet.
And I'll take my coat off and put on a pair of shoes and roll them up to the photographer's chair.
Now that's, you know, so many bullets, the bullets are out.
Fifty-two.
Is it fifty-two, mate?
Fifty-two.
I know, it's a... No, everybody around here is probably going to be interested in tennis, huh?
It's a nice little sort of commission for the international set.
It's a good buying name, I mean, if you like tennis.
But there's a different kind of assholes who play tennis.
They're not our friends.
It's collegiate.
Maybe Stan Smith is right.
I think the guy out there.
He's not bad.
But he is a wild one.
And we've had some other shit.
You know, our Bill Cramer.
Yeah.
In Los Angeles.
Jack Cramer.
Jack Cramer.
It was because it was a great fall.
And it's a game for men.
For all sections.
That's what it is.
There's some good people in Los Angeles.
And it's all those people that love games.
The difference is that going to the tennis, going to watch tennis matches is very social.
It's like opera.
As contrasted to bowling, it's like a rock concert or a pop.
Boy, it's interesting to say that when they went out to work, the coolest reception they got when they went out to the church, I don't know if you all hear it.
I'm not surprised some bitches go over my castles.
Could I ask you to schedule another day to get weddings?
I mean, we always do these, I spend a lot of time with those little kids when they come there.
The astronauts I met last night, they were quite touched by, the astronauts were very touched by the kids.
All the kids could not get a good night and all that sort of thing after they were, you know,
And the astronauts were just out there totally captivated by the whole thing.
And, you know, Lucy, Steve, she's an enhancement to the Little Express, or maybe Scott, because they were, what do you think of Scott?
Huh?
What do you think of Scott?
He's quite a fellow.
They all are.
But he is quite handsome.
And so forth.
Are you interested in trying to make that?
Yeah, I've got a race car.
I've got him in here.
I don't hear the car.
Swing the car in here on that.
Let me look at it.
You know, they've got all sorts of different cars.
Goddamn, I've never saw a lot of automobiles.
Well, we have the most miserable winter sons of bitches coming in here today at 7 a.m.
I guess we couldn't do it without Boyd.
Oh, look, there's some rocks lying around.
Oh, God.
Yeah, well, that's the every time I got in.
I had nobody there to fight with.
I had Schultz, you know, I had Boots, Stein, Crack.
God, now, Bob, you just don't realize what we miss until you don't have a colony around.
You know, just think if we hadn't got time in, in general, you know, he's in the room there with me.
I can sort of let down a little.
And I remember those guys sitting there and so forth.
He's fine with it.
God damn it.
Our guys don't talk balls.
I have to step in there and crack his, so forth.
If he can come in perfectly, if you can slack off and let him take it for a while, he can let, he builds you up kind of well, which is right at the end, right?
We see that it's still ahead of you, so I have to be quick.
And that leaves me an opportunity to be a little worky, and I'll whack him.
But when you've got just people that talk and vomit on them,
All the time.
And that's all where people who burn any other than do anything else.
They cannot bring themselves.
They're great.
They're absolutely great.
But they're great at it.
And the fact that I see what is going on here.
Can we get it installed?
We've always got to line up both for the writer and for Tom Shepard.
We want both, right?
We want both, right?
Maybe this is the time, I'm sure.
Got it?
Yes, it sure has.
Unfortunately, Michael May's book has been a lot thicker than life, too.
But Kohl's is just smart enough to get out from under, you know, he's a guy who doesn't lose his money.
That's right.
He got that Florida deal.
Sure, he broke a lot of people in the process.
He saw it and he just named it and stayed on with it.
But our magazine is finished.
Some.
That kind of magazine is.
There's no purpose for it.
The news magazines will do all right.
And the special interest in the racing car magazine and the movie star magazine.
No wonder we're bringing the president to me in the hall for his father's, uh, assassination.
God damn it.
And I mean, it's really, girl, I went through it and it was interesting.
Sure enough, they showed all the things, you know, patios.
Well, it's a service magazine.
Hawaii and this and that.
I imagine people read that.
They just talk to us.
It's a service magazine, very well put together with a section on travel, a section on homemaking, and a section on gardening.
And it's indexed well.
You can find, you know, if you're interested in cooking, it has a section.
Hello, Senator.
Well, I didn't want you to be in office too long without my saying congratulations.
We know we all expected you to be here.
Of course, not this way, but you would have made it anyway.
And it's a finding for the Senate, for Vermont, and for the country.
And we're glad you're here.
And I was going to suggest, because I think it might be of interest to the folks there and, of course, the country that
We've got a busy session today, but I thought I'd have my office get in touch with yours.
And if you're convenient, we might arrange you to come down and have a picture taken.
Congratulations.
Would you like to do that?
Good.
We'll have, Bob will have him get ahold of McGregor or one of our people.
McGregor, call and make the arrangements, okay?
They told me they were throwing you right in the middle of a big debate or something.
I don't know.
Are you over there now, or have you been swarming in?
Oh.
Oh, fine.
Where do they give you your office, physically?
Well, they'll have a nice little place to take you.
All the other people are much more optimistic on him than Dole.
Mr. Stan Smith, who won the tennis professional championship in Forest Hills on Monday.
I know Dole has some personality.
He's got the voice of the President Chairman of the Weinstein Group at one point, but also he's got some hooks into him, they think.
And McGregor is much more optimistic than him.
He says on the defense issues, on the key issues, he'll be solidly with us.
He'll take some independent positions, but he won't be like us.
Yeah?
I wondered if you were able to find out about the...
The lab we had about the...
The mouse that we had in phase one.
Did you ever get any reports of... Shelts or...
Oh, yeah.
It was Minister Houk's section got in.
This section got in as a snap fire idea.
That's what I figured.
As a look for a lead.
He suggested it to Schultz, who agreed that it was a good idea.
They put it in the first draft on that basis.
which was sent then immediately to Conley for approval.
There was not a specific input from Conley on that point.
So there, you know, it's a little bit gray, but it was a, sorry.
That's the problem, or the problem that you've,
They will reach Sapphire on 480.
And when they reach 480, if all they talk to maybe has a mistaken impression that I have
and pushing him, and then we'll not get his judgment on it.
For example, this is no great problem, but the way, I had a district civil, at the cost of a big council, I don't know why, but I had a dual separate, but he hadn't met, and decided that's what it was to me, and so what the heck, I was too busy to even check it.
But if I had not known that, what I would have done, the way I would have written it, I would say,
We've had this reach for 90 days.
When this reach is completed, we're going to have a follow-on program.
You see, rather than to say that the monthly and directly sort of a cold-water kind of thing, which is the news story, I agree.
But on the other hand, it's not the way to slip into it the other way.
Now, you've got that problem with Sapphire all the time.
You've got to know it.
He is great on getting the news.
He is very good in terms of the cost of getting the news.
He does not go beyond that.
At least on a day-to-day basis.
On a day-to-day basis.
On a day-to-day basis.
On a day-to-day basis.
On a day-to-day basis.
On a day-to-day basis.
On a day-to-day basis.
On a day-to-day basis.
On a day-to-day basis.
On a day-to-day basis.
On a day-to-day basis.
On a day-to-day basis.
On a day-to-day basis.
On a day-to-day basis.
On a day-to-day basis.
On a day-to-day basis.
On a day-to-day basis.
On a day-to-day basis.
I thought it was something like that.
That's probably what the comic was sort of thinking it came from me.
I think that's probably right.
I mean, he was not all versatile, but I didn't want to see how it was done.
Well, maybe he didn't.
Maybe he didn't.
You know, you could still be getting the pain, but if you'd done it the other way, you could still end the freeze on November 13th.
Yeah, and it would mark everybody.
And if done it in a way that you kept the momentum of the freeze on, it would continue to happen.
You see, that's the whole idea.
It's all psychological.
But you could have waited until October 7th and then said, yeah, in that announcement, the freeze will end on November 13th, and here's what will happen afterwards.
Look, I don't want to say we ever told that name.
I suggest the best line regarding that name is that it's been totally narrated by everybody.
Except for purposes of history.
God, no, low-key way, the Iran, that just made it all over.
or something like that, book reviewers or a couple of columns, just so that it's in print, not that it's on view.
Probably right, yeah.
I actually don't think you want to take, I can just take the thing out of it.
I just think, just build up the circulation quite a short way, and certainly have us, I mean, and Drew has no way, have a line there.
Just, I don't see what he'd do.
It was got in his news story, leaked the thing ahead of time, he got it in his story.
the day before yesterday and yesterday, and they glued all of that stuff and it was what can be summarized in about five items.
Those were all in the first story, and that's the end of it.
There's no controversy on it.
Nobody's arguing with them, and we shouldn't.
They are factually incorrect.
I know.
But I think we just ignore it.
There is no point in setting the record straight.
It doesn't make any difference.
We'll get you the money, though.
Yeah, we got you the money on the last one, right?
Yeah.
And it's a, I think it's a, it's great.
That's gonna, you know, both I and the man still think of Montana may very well not be a bad move at all either.
Just kind of fond of the Jesus.
You're supposed to be the petty politician who kicks everybody in here all of a sudden.
Here's what I had in mind.
I probably needed you, Colson.
You can.
And because of the issues involved, to the extent that it is involved, maybe it's your sitting down and talking about the adults have an all-out assault on the Democrats.
or partisanship that endangers the national interest.
And that's everything from the draft of Vietnam to, you know, pissing on us in the face where they can.
Now, the other thing, there should be partisanship in the way that Price was there.
He used to put Kissinger out, and then, I don't know, maybe Berlin isn't one place to go.
Who the hell can you pull in there?
You also don't have any understanding of Berlin.
and he likes to get more into that sort of thing.
I would keep sapphire in both of these.
This is an area where sapphire is good.
He likes the tap.
And there's where some of his cleverness is.
I don't want him.
I don't want him to sit in a foreign policy.
Okay.
Isn't Buchanan better?
I think the reason I think Buchanan is immobilizing is certainly that's right.
I just don't know.
I'm not comfortable with Sapphire in that kind of a meeting.
I mean, with you, I don't think you should be.
That's what I'm talking about.
No, sir.
I do not want Sapphire in a meeting with me because he'd go out and report it.
I agree.
I agree.
He also read a book, but he's just compulsively unable.
He thinks he's doing the right thing.
He uses it.
Oh, I don't think he read a book.
We had a backfire that may have turned out to be...
Dan Good, interestingly enough, on Sapphire, moved to leave that Mansfield thing, and got caught at it.
One of his sources, he doesn't know which one, he's trying to figure that out, doesn't make a difference, but one of them said Sapphire was planning this on a not-for-attribution basis, told UPI.
UPI's character is a wire story saying that Bill Sapphire, Chief White House speechwriter, is telling people that, and goes through the Mansfield story.
It's worked out beautifully because it's got three times, it's got a wire mileage now because they caught Sapphire in the lead.
And McGregor was, of course, Sapphire called me last night at about midnight with a knife in his stomach ready to draw it across.
He said, you know, should I quit and all this?
I said, hang on.
You got caught.
You were doing a risky thing and it was repulsive.
But...
McGregor, who you would think would be very upset, but Bill was afraid he was going to screw us on the vote today.
McGregor said, hell no, it's going to help us.
Shows those guys that we can fight them.
And he said, the key to that is, it's true.
Now Mansfield's denied it.
He said, I never said that.
And Hawks, who was the guy that told the story, says it's a goddamn lie.
But they've gotten caught in a lie because Mansfield said there never was a meeting of the Senators.
And Hollinson said at the meeting of the Senators, Mansfield didn't say anything about pressure.
He said each man should vote his own conscience.
So they've caught themselves.
They each got caught late last night with an answer, and they didn't check with each other.
So they're caught.
But anyway, it's built into, it's made much more of a thing out of it than it would have before.
And we handled it right, I think.
Because McGregor was asked, or the same White House source, I'm quoting him, but they're saying, a White House source confirmed that Safar had mentioned this story to some people and that it was believed to be true, that he had been told it by a Democratic senator.
And then they're asking what senator, and Safar is taking the biased press attitude, saying he couldn't reveal his story.
But it's interesting, because the Democrats who are saying it's not true know that it is.
So they're in no problem.
And Hollins, who is the guy who leaked it, knows he didn't talk to Sapphire, so he thinks someone else leaked it.
So we've got everything pretty well protected.
The Democrats, by the way, themselves, we're dividing the Democrats, which is exactly what we wanted to do.
Make it L-O-C-K-E. What am I asking?
I'm watching.
This may not be the proper name.
It may be Loeb or something, but he's a doctor, a professor of geology at Houston University.
It's apparently one of the great environmentalists, but totally on the Shepard side.
Totally on the Shepard side.
I want to find him.
I want him put on.
He's never passed any, but I want him brought in and put on.
One of the advisers needs to get some balance in the environment.
Did our domestic counsel ever write the speech for me?
I'm sure there should be a speech.
They, you know, we took Sheppard's and they came back with a blast of Sheppard around that his facts were all wrong.
Sheppard gave that to his people and he was, I gave it to him that day.
He was in the CU, you know.
And he said, I appreciate this because I really pushed my people on the research on this because I don't want to say anything that's wrong because I know I shouldn't say shocking things.
So he said, let me tell you.
So he took it back.
His people wrote a blast at our people
privately, not publicly, saying they were shocked that the government was distorting the statistics this way, that it was misinterpreting, you know, and all this, and then they go back through the thing again.
Now that's back down here with our guys trying to untangle that.
In the meantime, they're supposed to be working on it.
Who are our guys?
I don't know, Whitaker's people.
Well, I ought to bring it to me at this point.
I'll tell you, I don't have confidence in Whitaker on this issue.
Because Bob, he's totally enamored with it, you know, totally enamored.
I got that in mind.
I'm sick of this environment.
I mean, in terms of, I don't mean to hate it, but I'm sick of it in terms of, you know, saving the birds and the mockingbirds and that kind of thing.
Let the humans die instead of the geese or whatever it's called.
I'd like to see, I'd like for you to summarize, Mr. Shepard, the differences between the Shepard and the original, what our people call me, because I am signing papers all the time on the environment based on political analysis.
Now, God damn it, I can't do that.
I've got to be right, you know.
What does it seem like we're signing more papers on the environment?
The current environment doesn't matter, so we get this resolved, isn't it?
This is resolved.
But he got on a lot of rioting.
He used to be rioting.
He spent a scanty time.
I don't worry about what's going on.
It's all the same thing.
I mean, he's not bad as Whittaker, but I just want you to know that I had a few moments.
I can't imagine.
I know that he's... Oh, guess what?
I'm on fire.
You can find out for a cigarette.
When I was talking about the Japanese being the biggest customer, the term, my recollection is that, basically, it's biggest overseas customer, which would leave Canada out.
Actually, Canada probably.
Canada, because one of the transactions we have is bigger than Japan.
We're their biggest customer.
We're Japan's biggest customer, and they are our biggest overseas customer.
You could just give that to Duke.
Again, not to give to the press, you understand?
Yeah.
But to give to the man that asked the question.
It's the biggest overseas customer.
He's probably Canadian.
I think Lucy, if she could get that out of his head.
Yeah, we go around the press a little.
It's a nice little story.
Tell Sanford not to worry.
You understand, even on this other thing, I wouldn't, I don't like the way that operated, but there again, you can't blame him.
He was trying to come up with some hot idea, and our staff should have stepped up to him.
But then again, they, Sanford, you know, ropers are pretty hard.
FP, as well, the president wanted something, see.
Ray's got the five all done, basically done.
He's doing the final polishing.
He doesn't want to have you start on it until he knows he's got enough so that you can keep going.
He thinks it ought to be done as a series.
In effect, yeah.
Or at least after you think it's going to happen as a series.
And he expects to have them done this week.
and things that you ought to start on in the first part of October.
Is it possible in Detroit to plan any questions?
Sure.
I don't know.
I think we can find a way to talk.
For example, because it looked perfectly fit, I think we ought to get one on bus conveyor, since they've had this problem with a pilot.
I want to put a bus in on national television.
Am I fine?
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Another very strong line, which was not mentioned by any of the others, which I'm sure you saw, a variety of detail on this idea of America first, its isolation, and so forth.
Where I said that a weak America would inevitably be isolationist, a strong America is essential to the event if America is to play an international role.
And the strength of America was
Why does somebody already go through a press conference when you haven't mentioned this before?
They've got a few leads to get around to people.
Can somebody do that?
Is that who we've got to do that?
We can.
And he's scouting.
He sees leads.
Well, I mean, quotes.
I'm not speaking that.
What I'm getting around is camera rosters.
should really pick up on things, on the speeches.
Well, that seems true of the congressional speech, too.
That's why I had some stuff up there.
Have you got somebody doing that?
Yeah, the race works when they're doing the material that they do race through.
Right here, guys, when they're doing the material for speakers, that's the basic.
First, we also pull those into Monday.
We run a lot of correctness and quote things in there, which we're getting to pick up on.
Okay.
I'm just saying this.
If I had a little guy who was living in my office in the house this Sunday, here in my office, and he was getting something, so they could read the speech.
down the way that I told you can to give me.
I said, give me another copy.
He said, well, I'll give you a copy.
Well, he sent it to the US, and it was already along the line.
And I read it.
99 out of 100 would never read it.
What you've got to do is to give him about five simple, you know,
I still think that what we ought to do, Mr. Martin, you can have your meeting after Colson and all, and I think you ought to bring him.
I think Dan should be honored for this.
We ought to get him off, but he isn't going to make it.
He's going to party around with the governors.
This is a dead-end street for the portion of the bench, even though he doesn't think so.
You know, revenue-sharing, the governors, you know, they are a total bunch of nuts.
But what he really ought to do is to assault the Democrats with partisanship.
He also should, and he ought to get on to this, he also ought to get into the strong
He should assault them on the defense issue, but defend the president.
You get the point, Bob?
He's the fellow that could get the right wing off of the kid.
I mentioned Buchanan since 1936.
The right wing is talking to the choir, but they could go after me.
They should be talking to the Senate.
And I just don't feel that our people are doing this enough.
I don't know that they understand this problem.
Do they or don't they?
They do, but they can't do anything.
They understand.
They don't make too much knowledge on it.
Okay.
They don't think I'm great enough.
I'm not great enough.
talked about and that's why we're gonna try and look at just some whole different way of going at it.
Today he's been moving on this TV, you know, trying to get some, I guess the TV, he thinks he's got something going on.
He's got a guy that's taking on the project of station owner, because that's the best place to get the real pressure done.
Station owners are organizing, the independent group of station owners are organizing for a whole program of accuracy and television news where they're going to set up on their own initiative, their own monitoring system.
And then they're going to move to the, this guy is a CBS affiliate, so he's going to move to the CBS affiliates meeting, and they think they can do it at the other two networks.
and demand a fair presentation of the news and make the point that they are going to stop carrying the news, the network newscasts, if they will not shift them away from their biased presentation.
They're going to start monitoring to do that.
And they've got it worked out with their lawyers and everything.
They're worried that the networks might kick them out of their affiliation, lose their affiliation, but they've been assured they can do that.
The networks will get antitrust.
proceedings that they did and the other thing is there they uh the networks need the station worse than the station needs the network because they've got to have them order to sell their commercial lines so uh there
They think, I guess I'm going in.
We're going to get the whole data on that Galaxy Book to this group and let them see if they don't want to use that monitoring system.
This may be the way to get her book into an ongoing activity.
The station owners of the country would rise up and say, by God, we demand this commission be set up.
You know, I've had these station owners, how most of them are forests that are gone over here.
And I know it's, they are.
It's like a bird flying, I mean, you put it around so that everybody's forced and then you get screwed.
Basically, I'm that person who's a full of Jews and they're screwing us.
That's all they're screwing.
My God, it's a, I don't know.
I don't know.
There isn't any doubt in this.
We've done it.
She's documented it.
Isn't that great?
Yeah, we can do it.
We can get it going now.
Yeah.
We've got to test ourselves against next year, don't we?
Yep.
Well, that's it.
We can get any kind of, either one or two things.
If we can get someone unbiased, that would be a bunch of numbers.
I hope they are able to.
Of course, thinking that the interesting thing is in the draft, Sparty can say, well, White House pressure, because he's going to vote the other way, and it wasn't.
This hasn't been won, honestly, by the expression.
That's right.
Listen, to where we stand is that
or the man is or hasn't been.
Nobody's talking to him about it.
Except on pro-formal basis.
Here's what I mean.
You get together, let me report it.
You get together that group and then say, I don't care.
I don't want to pick up paper, but we've got to attack the Democrats for obstructionism.
I'd have to say I'm very angry for obstructionism or partisanship in the field of foreign policy with regard to the draft.
The ones that got us in the war trying to sabotage our efforts to get us out, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
We've got to attack the Democrats for partisanship on the domestic front, see?
They don't want to pass any of our programs.
It's a broader thing.
But beyond that, they are not supporting the wage price and so forth and so on.
How long does it take to go to camp?
As you said, it's a long flight.
Forty minutes.
Same as you can't handle.
It's an equilateral triangle from here to Huber to David to here.
Is it a pleasant enough place to go out there for dinner?
Is it too much of a problem for you?
I think it probably is.
They have a big log fire.
Oh, yeah.
It's nice.
It's a big cabin, yeah.
Plus, if people get big gun use and all that, I think it's probably more rustic than that place you were in at the park.
But I have a feeling it's sort of that kind of a thing.
I haven't been to it.
And now is the time to go, but they haven't fixed up.
If you want to go in the early spring, it was a mess then, because they winterized it and closed it up.
But it's set up now.
Yeah, I think.
I just want to go back to what I saw.
I was going to say, I don't know.
I have two chances to see whether the situation is how long after the vaccine is.
and so forth, and whether it would be possible to have somebody go up.
I know we'll be doing that.
I mean, I just keep going up.
If there's something you need to look around a little.
Back to the press conference.
We are now out of the situation where
We have got to use our infected essence more.
Now, I cannot each time rev myself up and try to do a so-called stimulating performance.
But I can go out in the day and have a press conference.
It is totally better.
anybody in this town, you know that.
You know what I mean?
But the only exception is Conner.
He's got the same facility.
But mainly, as I know how to answer questions, how to answer questions, I put a little verb in the goddamn things.
Now, the thing about the press conference is good.
You see, it just commands the goddamn news, you know what I mean?
It blasts everybody else to hell off.
It disciplines our people.
And, uh,
Also, in this sort of imaginary goddamn thing of leadership, there is, believe me, another week, week first around the law, you know.
Remember I told you, I thought maybe we'd have to prepare one every week.
I don't mean we're gonna do it, I mean, I might do it some, maybe two in a week sometime, maybe, maybe, maybe not for three weeks because of big events,
What I'm getting at is we may be too cautious in doing this and too outgoing in farting around with stuff that really doesn't have much to do with leadership.
You know what I mean?
I saw that I've had 33 appearances between this summer, 16 outside of Washington and 15 inside of Washington, and a Republican appearance at Sanford.
Well, what the hell do they mean?
I was amazed at that.
That the old Oilers, of course, and the old folks, the Nashua, the Cow Palace, or the Cow Church, or whatever it was, well, I'd be right, five of those six are those red speeches, six or seven.
You know, the one in Tulsa is a red speech, the one in Iowa is a red speech, the one in Texas is a red speech.
Right?
Yep.
Now, in terms of leadership,
The press thing is infinitely more effective, unless it is a speech like the speeches of Congress or August 13th or something like that, August 15th.
I suppose one of the reasons it's more effective is that it has the advantage that
that my words, whatever they may be, come through in the press conference.
And by the time, in the speech thing, it's like torture to eventually, you know, get a speech where I've got anything in it that has me in it.
See?
Yeah?
In other words, I just wanted to be sure to quit the contact speeches.
Almost quit them.
I really think that, Bob, I don't think they're worth much.
I mean, I guess I'll take the word, but John Luther had a great deal of talks on this.
That's a nice little idea for history in this snack.
But in this not coming period, it's sort of a need.
Scali had brought in the U.P.
and A.P.
guys.
I think we've got you.
I had already finished.
No, no, but this was a good way of ending it anyway.
I thought really what you did yesterday, it was undoubtedly effective in a public relations sense, but it was high policy because it
It ended most of the speculation.
These guys aren't fighting or sneering.
I said, what is the president trying to do?
What's McGovern fighting about?
What is McGovern's argument with the president?
I said to them, does anyone doubt that he's getting out?
So all McGovern is screaming about is his idea that maybe he could get out a few weeks earlier.
He has no information.
Then I...
I'm not going to use him right now.
Let me suggest that I...
I'm going to use him as a credit citizen.
I'll say, now look.
We don't have a client.
Under our plan, I assure the American people that it is one that is decided, and I believe we can accomplish this goal of ending the American war, of ending it in a way that South Vietnam has a chance to defend itself and avoid a communist takeover and to get our business back.
That's what my plan is.
Now, others disagree with this plan.
If they sabotage my plan, then they must take responsibility.
I used the first part of it.
I didn't use the second part.
I didn't use the part that they sabotaged the gun.
But these guys were saying, I analyzed for them the McGovern comment on ceasefire and softening the terms.
But luckily they've now toughened them a little bit again.
Yeah, that's good.
Well, I have this view, Mr. President, now as I am, I still think, we don't have to go into it now, that this game plan I mentioned to you is a good one, because also it gives us a move from which we can accuse people of having sabotaged things while we were negotiating them domestically.
But leaving that aside, if we can keep the thing going through next year, if we go into this low route, by necessity,
They will settle by negotiation before the election, as long as the polls show that you have any chance of winning.
They will not let you get elected and get a free shot at them not having to be re-elected.
If you watch when they have settled, it's been before your inauguration, before your election, those have been the two big breaks.
So we have a pretty good chance of bringing it off before November anyway.
Well, now, one thing I'm going to suggest is this.
I think it's important to give it a shot right now.
I'll tell you why.
You can buy the provocation, any kind of a provocation, just for a little pop.
I see.
Because it isn't enough to be up there and say we're going to support you.
I think just a little pop, I want to stir it up a little bit.
Now, find somebody to say any of it.
I'm in favor.
Well, the best place to do that now is just north of the DMZ.
Now, and then I'll say, they were building up for an attack on our forces as we were withdrawing.
And I'm using the air bar.
I think now is the time to hit them.
Right now.
I mean, this weekend, I understand.
That's what I want.
Right now.
I don't know whether they can do it this weekend, but they can do it during the next week.
I know.
I told you.
Tell them I want them this weekend.
They've got the flags.
Let's take the targets.
I want to see what the weather is and all the rest.
And if there are, I want to go in there and right north of the big DMZ, let them get a hop out.
And then in and out.
And we'll send bludgers as a protective reaction.
Because the protective reaction does better for our forces.
Air buildup.
We'll get it done by the...
I couldn't agree more.
I think that is essential.
If we can do it, particularly
Maybe hit Dong Hoi, where they have all these supplies piled up, on Monday.
Good.
Good.
Well, get it lined, please.
Right.
And then send Haig out right afterwards.
Haig is... Haig is planning to leave Monday night.
Fine.
Well, then, get them hit this weekend.
That's what I say.
Get them centered here Sunday.
That's a good time.
They can hit while Haig is out there.
That doesn't make any difference.
That's right.
Get it done, though.
Oh, we'll get it done within a week.
It takes two days.
Don't postpone it.
No, I won't postpone it, but it takes them two days to get the planes assembled.
It takes them one day.
I want to respect each other.
I want to respect each other.
I want to be handled from a public direction standpoint.
and their violation of the understanding by going across the DMC.
Incidentally, at one point I mentioned to Bob that I thought he ought to.
If you do read his notes, there are a couple of very good lines I recall.
The one line was particularly good.
I thought this word.
I thought about what our economic policy is when somebody said, what about our friends abroad and so forth?
But I said, we must remember that there are those who say that this policy is against us.
On the contrary, it's just the opposite.
That a weak America will end with the isolationist.
Only a strong America...
We'll play a national role.
We'll continue to do this.
We need this long America.
We must strengthen America so that we don't get isolated.
That's what's going on.
That should be poured out very, very strongly.
Very good.
That's a very good point.
And I think we've got to start to stall such old laws.
Now, we've really got to do it.
His people aren't, haven't just yet been able to grab hold of this, but they've got to, and I think we're going to have to use that.
You've got to stall the Democrats on the draft and on, particularly on being on the ground that they are
I couldn't agree more with you.
They're partisan.
They're putting party above country.
Party above country.
Let them squeal at us and party.
The ones that got us into the war are sabotaging our country, I guess.
You know, for example, they aren't.
The press, as you know, they won't play out what I said about them.
Will they?
No.
I don't think they even mentioned it.
They didn't even mention it.
You notice what I said, what I mean is that's what I'm not being unholy, but that was a very important point where I said that the way to get out of it now
I mean, the way you got into Vietnam was through murder in Vietnam.
The way you got out is not by throwing out a cube.
And I think those, hey, can't you get some of our guys to get a hold of some of these things, Bob?
There are some things like that.
Goddamn it, get them off their bus and they can do this.
They've got to fight.
They just can't say, well, the person's off next week.
I'm not going out next week.
I mean, you coming out fighting yesterday, it gives one really a sense of awe about the power of the presidency, because...
It does.
It's got to be followed up.
It's got to be followed up, but I really thought...
I have to be...
I thought that if we got into another one of these retreating actions, where we'd have to explain why this deadline wouldn't work, it'd kill us.
But by what you said, you've gone on the offensive,
I think it's going to save the domestic situation in Saigon, if it can be saved.
And that, in turn, is going to help us.
All the other questions will not be picked up on us.
It gets your little boys to do this, too.
I mean, two-thirds of the countries in the world, did you see that picked up in England?
I didn't.
Uh, yeah.
Two that we put off aid to a country because it doesn't have a leader elected in the next election.
Two that we put off aid, including about, uh, about 30 countries that are animals.
That last point didn't come up well.
The other point I want to make, I want to tell you, I'm not going to state off the hook on those 30.
Here's what I want.
So that they don't give me the other country.
I want a simple election.
I'll let you know.
On the last election, they gave me in the case of each country.
on the last election, the percentage of the vote received by the head of government and the percentage of the vote received by all others who ran.
It was a parliamentary system.
Percentage of vote received by the heads of government's party had the percentage of vote received by the other party.
That's all.
That's a simple budget.
Those Congressmen are never going to be able to buzz out of that.
I'll get that.
All the money that they have misled us.
Oh, I can't name 31 countries, Mr. President.
You just don't like it, do you?
But I was impressed.
This was Stuart Hensley and who's the other guy, Gulick?
Hensley.
Yeah, they were both good.
And these are tough crows.
And I went on the attack.
And they were feeding me questions, really, no cynicism at all.
I said, what is the president trying to do?
He's trying to get the country out with dignity.
Most of his opponents are screaming because they know he's getting out, and they're taking a free ride on it.
Yeah.
I'll see you later.
Drugs.
Drugs.
I've got a lot more to say.
The most typical thing on this planet is a black hole.
Minority of this planet has black holes.
Black, black, black.
This is a black hole.
I don't know what it takes to get in and out on a subject.
The point is that the reason he's being drugged is to fill it up.
and he's supposedly wants to raise a question about racism.
I mean, I want you to know that I am really not, really not an anarchist, as I understood it, but he's, in fact, I mean, he told her in the reference section, but I'm not gonna explain it.
Screw him.
I'm not gonna do it to you anyway.
That's good.
And you?
I'm not gonna tell him that.
He's the one that's gonna set up the next thing if anything comes up on that.
Yeah.
Okay, well you, will you arrange this meeting now?
Yeah.
Yeah, that it is.
The attack is going to be, the assault is going to be made on the other fronts.
What are they doing on the street?
The gold thing there.
How are you?
I'm sorry, how are you?
How are your travels?
Oh, all right.
All right.
So, I understand you saw that video.
Yes, I did.
Yes, I did.
I was just saying that I got on good with the old gentleman by telling him what a beautiful place he had that.
Yes.
I didn't see that.
Well, it is a beautiful place.
And my boy stood me all around and said, I did this, I did that.
He said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said,