Nixon, Rhyne & Haig on Foreign policy and People's Republic of China

1:13:20on the data that we have.
1:13:21Do we agree to a date?
1:13:22If we disagree, we'll have to vote.
1:13:24Don't worry about it.
1:13:26We'll have to vote.
1:13:32We'd like to see.
1:13:33Well, the office may say thanks, sir.
1:13:36a lot of you and we really spoke about the five things.
1:13:44One was China, Russia, his visit here, this conference we were having, and his constitutional changes in Yugoslavia.
1:13:56on China, and right at the very outset, he wanted to know what I had said to the Chinese ambassador, what he had said to me, evidently, they were televising this reception given to the prime minister, and when he came through, the Chinese ambassador, prime minister, this was in the government house, he gave a reception for 2,500, 4,000 people there.
1:14:23And so I said to him, you'll give him these, I'll be Mr. Nixon, Mr. P. King, etc.
1:14:31I laughed.
1:14:31And then he said, well, that's something he could work on, but it was something I could do for him immediately, which was to let his people come to this conference without inscribing their names.
1:14:42I said, well, what's wrong with inscribing their name?
1:14:45He said, we don't want to be responsible for what you do.
1:14:51And I said, OK, well, come on.
1:14:52But Tito almost immediately came to how pleased he was, but how surprised.
1:14:57He mentioned surprise maybe half a dozen times in connection with your opening up a channel.
1:15:05And he said he had been working on this for years.
1:15:09and that he had kind of stood between China and Russia and sometimes felt squashed like a Spanish.
1:15:17But that he thought that your initiative and that you, above all, were the one person in the world who could do something of this kind.
1:15:26And he was very pleased with it.
1:15:28He thought that was a tremendous thing.
1:15:32And we spoke of
1:15:34your world comprehension.
1:15:38And then I said a few words of complimentary about you, and he didn't say whether he agreed or disagreed on that.
1:15:46I told him that you were, of course, the most knowledgeable, present, and able, and all that kind of thing.
1:15:53But he then said, once you were reached in Russia, tell him about it.
1:15:58And so I told Mike to go on to invite me to this conference.
1:16:01And he said, well, where are you?
1:16:04And I said, well, I don't know.
1:16:05The ambassador and some of the people came.
1:16:07He said, well, some of them are probably lawyers.
1:16:10He said that he had thought about all that Gorkin and Spernoff, Gorkin being the chief justice, and Spernoff would come.
1:16:17Well, when I was in Russia, they did come out to meet me at the airport.
1:16:20He was pretty well briefed on this, and this was quite unusual for them, you know.
1:16:24Oh, and they handled it at the very highest levels.
1:16:29And when I was talking to Mr. Gorkin, he said he referred to meeting you in Tunisia.
1:16:34And when I had seen him before in 1937, well, I had seen him in 58.
1:16:52And again, and other, I made three plans on that.
1:16:56And when I first, I had Steve, and these had been replaced.
1:17:01But he is obviously still one of the top people in,
1:17:08And they really wanted to come.
1:17:10I told them about our discussions, and I said that one thing happened was we had a dinner where all the top legal lights, Gorkin, Smirnoff, were there.
1:17:19So they wanted to know how many Americans were coming to Belgrade.
1:17:22And I said, well, maybe 100 or so.
1:17:23Well, you know, with all those 20,000 going into London, obviously there were going to be more than that.
1:17:27They said, well, I don't know what they heard.
1:17:29They heard about five.
1:17:30And they wanted an equal number.
1:17:31I said, well, you can't have it.
1:17:35Oh my gosh, he got very indignant.
1:17:37I said, now look, we've met you a number of times, and you've always talked about equality.
1:17:42Why can't you have five hundred people?
1:17:44And so they got very indignant.
1:17:46I said, well, don't you want to know the reason?
1:17:49And they said, yes.
1:17:49Finally, they weren't much interested.
1:17:50I said, look, with five hundred Russians landing on that airport in Belgrade, he's going to think he's being invaded, and all hell's going to break loose.
1:17:56He always thought he'd really enjoy that.
1:17:58He said, that's pretty good.
1:18:00But he said, no, I understand.
1:18:01He said, here I am.
1:18:03Did you, I know you're meeting with a prophet.
1:18:05He said, could I understand?
1:18:07He thinks that he should have a lot of credit for what happened really on the China thing.
1:18:12And he thinks that the Russians have personally insulted him.
1:18:16He said, here I am, arranged the greatest world law meeting in all of history.
1:18:21And do they come?
1:18:21He said, no.
1:18:22And for no reason.
1:18:23No reason.
1:18:24And he is personally insulted.
1:18:29Then we moved from that to his discussion of jury next.
1:18:42And I said, well, I don't know when they're coming or anything.
1:18:45I hope it didn't have rain.
1:18:46And he said, well, he probably would come in October or sometime in the fall.
1:18:50And I said, fall was a good time in Washington.
1:18:53And then we moved then to the conference itself.
1:18:57He was very interested in this demonstration trial, which had been a lot of publicity.
1:19:02We were going to have a space just falling on the bullshit theater, you know.
1:19:06We had six lawyers from all around the world, various damage and other claims, with a court of seven to demonstrate the handling of international claims with Warren Burger, who's acting on this.
1:19:18And Warren did a good job with that.
1:19:20He said that he moves very well around the people.
1:19:23And he was ill, so he couldn't go down to see Mr. Tito, but he did a good job in meeting people for the first time.
1:19:32And I think this is a good, wonderful representative of our country.
1:19:36Well, Tito was very interested in this because we had changed the locale of the accident to the Parliament Building in Yugoslavia.
1:19:43And so what we'll face is the request of the foreign minister, Yugoslavia, since she said the Russians were not coming in, in strength, and so forth.
1:19:54Uh, we discussed that, and then he went to constitutional change in his own country.
1:19:58He said he understood I was a constitutional lawyer, so I don't know that.
1:20:02Anyway, uh, then he spoke of his returning government to the localities, and so forth.
1:20:07He said he understood that you were interested in that subject, and I said yes.
1:20:12It's hard to tell that they've had a few different, uh, problems in connection with it.
1:20:19Uh, Mr. President, that is about it.
1:20:21He was very
1:20:23vigorous for a 79- or 80-year-old man.
1:20:27And when he finished, he seemed like he wanted to talk forever.
1:20:33But see, we had about 80 people who had gone down there with me.
1:20:37And they were waiting about three miles away.
1:20:41And so he said, you go on down.
1:20:43And he would come.
1:20:44Well, he did come driving himself an open convertible.
1:20:48I think it was a Lincoln Continental.
1:20:51And you heard him a long way before he got there because he was really driving fast.
1:20:54And he come up and he slammed on his brakes.
1:20:58And then he spent upward of two hours, almost three hours.
1:21:02He had each person come and sit by and have their photograph made.
1:21:06And he spoke to them about their country.
1:21:10And well, like the guy in the representative, he spoke, gave a message to the Pope.
1:21:16And most of these people were the chief justice and some of the ministers of justice of their country.
1:21:21And each one of them, he spoke of his knowledge of their country, which was very, very good.
1:21:26It's very interesting.
1:21:27It's very interesting to send this picture of Charlie and me meeting to the Yugoslavia office press people.
1:21:40They probably liked it.
1:21:54and when I gave him your letter, he read it and put it in his pocket and they took it out and read it again and then gave it to his second parent and told her to go lock it up.
1:22:12Well, a detective did think that it needed to be locked up.
1:22:21Yes, he did.
1:22:22Was it Hart?
1:22:24Not particularly so, but...
1:22:27Yes.
1:22:27Well, that's Jovanovic.
1:22:29Jovanovic is the Chief Justice of the Constitutional Court, and I'd say he's probably the number three man there, but obviously they're very...
1:22:42He had very close friends.
1:22:44I mean, just you can tell.
1:22:47He would run over here and tell me about this little garden and such.
1:22:55This great tribe and all the different bricks of his place there.
1:23:03And I think it's obvious to see the thing that I said that pleased him most was what a beautiful place.
1:23:10All right.
1:23:11Well, he's proud.
1:23:11It really is.
1:23:13Well, there you are.
1:23:14Yes.
1:23:14Oh, yes, we had local chief justices, and that presented a few problems, as you can well imagine.
1:23:19Who is the president?
1:23:20The conference itself was very interesting as a president.
1:23:30We had people...
1:23:34And of course, there's no question, just before this, the China thing happened, and you were a constant subject of discussion.
1:23:43I think at least among the lawyers of the world, really, they represent the thinking of the people.
1:23:50You're the number one leader of the world.
1:23:53And if there's any one thing I would recommend to you, it is that when you make a speech to the United Nations, you make it first.
1:24:01really move in the history of this country, which could be called a selfish move, you know, to protect us.
1:24:08in this economic picture.
1:24:11And I think that our country has always been out there helping other people.
1:24:17And I don't really think that this should be construed, but it is so being construed.
1:24:23I would really urge you to talk about a new, do this rule of law thing I've urged on you before.
1:24:29Talk about a new security system for the world.
1:24:31Build on your negotiation.
1:24:33disarm them, and so forth.
1:24:35Not giving up, but aren't using them as a screen behind which you build.
1:24:41But you need to kind of recapture the moral leadership of the world, because if there's any one thing you are, you're number one in the world.
1:24:48And you ought to really do something to, I think your comments on the
1:24:53recapping some of the basic things in America that go on very, very well as I travel around the country.
1:24:57And you had to do the same thing.
1:24:58Well, we had to do that.
1:25:00It's harder to be able to play a world role.
1:25:02Oh, yes.
1:25:02All America.
1:25:02Play a world role.
1:25:03And we in America will never be able to do that.
1:25:06So that's the problem.
1:25:07Well, actually, there are people who are turning in for a very long time and say, look, let's work on the ghetto.
1:25:13Forget all these poor guys on the ghetto.
1:25:14Do you mean?
1:25:15I believe.
1:25:20Yes, you can.
1:25:22They must do that.
1:25:23Well, I just think you've gotten such a wonderful reaction.
1:25:28And of course, the great thing that you have, as I get it from the people abroad, is you have their respect and you have their admiration.
1:25:37And so you have something to build really big on in the, you know, from a flag to fly, a great moral leadership.
1:25:50And I think that this in-the-rule rule of law idea, not work or not work, but it's working together because the one thing about it is all the nations in the world can work on that.
1:26:00You hear this emphasized so often among the lawyers, a little fellow from Nepal gets up and says, I come from a little country, but I didn't feel the law as much as anything else.
1:26:10Things like that.
1:26:10The little countries really feel that this is something they can do.
1:26:12Well, aren't we working on this now?
1:26:14Thank you.
1:26:17Yes, sir.
1:26:17Weeks of ex-arms are studied to be completed in about a month, sir.
1:26:21Because basically, it's something that I didn't make, and frankly, this doesn't come sentient.
1:26:27No, no.
1:26:28And it's a very good shot that I could make across the bow.
1:26:32Everything is a new practice that we're all also working on.
1:26:37Get one of, uh, get, get, for example, uh,
1:26:40You may have made a speech out there.
1:26:42Well, so did you when you arrested him.
1:26:44No, no, no, no, no, but I, you know, I just fall here when they hit him.
1:26:49But I meant, you didn't cover more of the intricacies of the fence.
1:26:52See, what we have to do in order to get into this, Charlie, I'll have to say something quite substantive.
1:26:58to do with that, or just take time for a lot of stuff.
1:27:01And you've got to be careful in there.
1:27:03Something grabs you.
1:27:04You've got to turn knowledge enough to get you to the World Government to appreciate it.
1:27:09You've got to get the World Government to appreciate it, to also have the problems of a lawful city, a 200-mile limit.
1:27:16and all that sort of thing.
1:27:18But at least it's settling things under the rule of law, you see.
1:27:20Yeah.
1:27:21What's that?
1:27:22At least it's settling things under the rule of law.
1:27:24Sure.
1:27:25Sure, I'm for that.
1:27:27And I think it's a flag that you can fly.
1:27:29Remember Henry Luce used to say, well,
1:27:31some leader, some nation, someday is going to be the law man of the world.
1:27:36With your background, he had a phrase, some leader will nail it to his masquette, and this will be the great thing because this is what the people of the world want.
1:27:47I don't think I'll do it with him.
1:27:57But aren't you re-strengthening it by your channel?
1:27:59Some say, no, no, no, no, no, but it's caught with too many problems.
1:28:02You know, the Israelis in the air, there's no aggression, everybody's fighting, and it's awful hard to do it.
1:28:11But I think what matters is that there's no better report than the White House.
1:28:16You know, that's a little bit of stuff there.
1:28:19But I'd like to see something on this.
1:28:20I would say it's, I think the White House is going to come up with something.
1:28:26to have a very good talk tonight to make on it.
1:28:33We might, it is the kind of thing that maybe ought to be told us.
1:28:38It might be, because it's more thoughtful than that, it maybe ought to be, it might be an occasion for, it has to be something we want to get broadly distributed in text.
1:28:48We might want to do something like one of those Sunday radio events that I do, which is anyone can carry on.
1:28:55I don't know that you, I think you don't really need it, but there is such a job.
1:29:05I've heard that a legal bar is as good, Charlie, as an international bar.
1:29:19You know what I mean?
1:29:20So they're lawyers.
1:29:24Everybody wants an exact against the star.
1:29:27You get to run the lawyers.
1:29:39It was such a wonderful time.
1:29:41I get the point, I get the point.
1:29:43But I think we ought to do it.
1:29:44I wanted to have something here.
1:29:46We just haven't developed anything yet.
1:29:49Tell you what, put our guy, our young federal leader,
1:29:57to work with and talk to you, Charlie, or they talk to you now or so about the whole thing and things, what do you think ought to be in these?
1:30:05You know it's a spongy area.
1:30:07Spongy because everybody talks, everybody thinks different things in part for what you think we ought to say.
1:30:13See my point?
1:30:14And under the circumstances and the language is more important than anything else.
1:30:20The commitment is more important.
1:30:22This is the thing.
1:30:24Now what you have to guard against is the feeling upon the part of the United States that they do not want to put the interests of the United States as vital interests under some international core body.
1:30:35That is what we're talking about.
1:30:36What we're really talking about is that where we have the
1:30:41all sorts of conflicts that don't involve violators.
1:30:44Nobody would suggest that no rule of law people would say that we're going to let a world court decide whether we build an ABM or something like that.
1:30:52That's what we're talking about.
1:30:54That's right.
1:30:54That's right.
1:30:55That's what we're talking about.
1:30:56The Minnesota spaceship happens to come down here.
1:31:00Now what the hell is going to happen?
1:31:02Are we going to go to war?
1:31:03Are we going to have a war?
1:31:04That's a very good example.
1:31:06We had 3,000 people watching the Trump.
1:31:08They televised it and really tripped.
1:31:12And six lawyers from Japan, Italy, from the United States, and Yugoslavia.
1:31:18It was terrific.
1:31:21And, of course, the audience was delighted.
1:31:27They got a big kick out of it.
1:31:30And the court started asking these foreign lawyers questions, like they did to you at the Supreme Court.
1:31:35But they're not used to being questioned.
1:31:42Oh, I didn't realize that.
1:31:45Well, yes, and this was the big, really, event of the whole thing.
1:31:59It's kind of been a real, here we go, oh, it wasn't.
1:32:03But another thing is, how does Berger think of this idea, in my opinion, such a talk?
1:32:08I would discuss it with him, discuss it with him.
1:32:10But I would think he'd be for it, very much in favor of it, because I think he would see, I went down to Williamsburg, and I was with Tom, Clark, and Berger, and put myself behind my whole, you know, reform, justice, and all that sort of thing, which they greatly appreciated.
1:32:26You've got a prison report on there, but there's no law thing, Charlie.
1:32:32There isn't any reason at all why we can't do it, Alan.
1:32:35I mean, it's something that none of this doesn't cost us a cent.
1:32:40It just puts the direction out there.
1:32:43I'll tell you a poem that wrote a lot about it.
1:32:46Pat and Dulles, both of them.
1:32:49Go back and get what they both said.
1:32:51I'm not saying you do it, but let's have some good research done.
1:32:54And I'm thinking of something about 2004.
1:32:57Dulles' last speech to New York Bar was on this.
1:33:04The next time I see you guys,

Nixon, Rhyne & Haig on Foreign policy and People's Republic of China

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