Conversation 578-008

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How are you?

Good to see you.

I think we would like to get a press picture, it seems to me.

I think that would be nice.

With a good backdrop.

So we'll all start to get here.

How do you want to set it up?

Like this, and then we'll divide it up and see.

That's right.

Thank you.

All right.

Oh, come on over and sit down here.

The Navy has talked about going back and having a one-star rank to President because they want to promote a woman to Commodore.

I told the Navy that I thought it would be a mistake to have a different rank for women.

And...

But the Army and the Air Force all have their women generals, but the Navy is taking it seriously and promoting it.

How did they consider you in the Navy?

Well, it's really...

It's probably a traumatic moment.

Oh, yeah.

And I wouldn't ask you about the way you are doing it.

Oh, yes, of course.

That's right.

I was thinking, though, in the Navy, you always think of, I mean, everybody has to be able to

I want all of you to know that the Secretary is a great advocate of this kind of policy which is represented here today.

He has it for two reasons.

One, because I think it's vitally important to get the best man for the job, and when you're trying to find the best man, you've got to look through your whole list of people, and nobody can be ruled out on that.

I think back, for example, I always think back, and it's hard to realize that this has happened in the area of sports.

And I came from Southern California.

And I remember seeing Jackie Robinson play against Oregon, and Tom Stigum, and Ted Washington, who was a stroke past his time, what a brilliant player he was.

And then later on, of course, as you know, he went to Montreal, and was brought up in the Dodgers.

I just figured, Jackie Robinson, he was the first.

You know, the first black player to be a major league ball player.

Now, you go out to the ball games today, and you wonder, you wonder when you, when you see fellows that are quite blue and those folks that shit, how did they do this?

Did they do it before?

How did they handle the players?

You look at football.

You see it there in the field of sports and other areas.

For years, George Preston Marshall, you know, would have been an all-white team in this town.

Marshall's a southerner.

West Virginia, I should say, but I know he's just .

George, I said, I remember particularly one year, I saw Jimmy Brown just carrying a Washington line piece.

I said, man, what are you doing?

He said, you're just, you're not competing, right?

You've got to get something.

All you've got, you've got a current thing.

And so he got it.

As far as sports is concerned, in every area of life, we have got to have our best people.

We don't rule out any people.

As a matter of fact, we know that talent can exist throughout the Iron Churches, and I must say that Kamau, the Secretary, has just been very insistent on this in the course of the two years.

The other point I want to make is this.

As we move now into the period of our peacetime forces, there are going to be, as you all know, a perhaps larger proportion of black in the ranks than there may be in the white area.

It's extremely important that that follower goes in and predicts on a volunteer basis that he knows, as he looks out the line, that he's got to go to the top.

If he doesn't think he's got to go to the top, he's not going to come in.

Also, if you're going to have a large proportion of enlisted men, that's the term we use in the Navy, of course, if you have a large proportion of enlisted men,

who are, say, have to be of one race or so.

They look up the line and they see what's happened to the officer corps.

It just won't wash. And so it seems to me that what we would have in fact done would just come a long way.

We didn't, when Al asked me to set this up, I just told him, I said, look, we're not doing this just for symbolism.

uh and we're not we're not going for tokens but we're doing it because with the interests of the service required we get the best demand we have everybody and the interests of the service in terms of our future needs require that we make this move it's that is that your state the case and i wish that if you post when you go out because you'll be asked to make speeches thank you

And I want you, to the extent you desire, whenever it's appropriate, you go out and just vote.

And I said, that's just exactly the way I feel about it.

We're proud to have you in this rank.

You're there because

Because you have.

Not just because you happen to be in a minority group.

And this proves that there's opportunity in the service.

Opportunity to go to the top.

And we're going to recognize that opportunity.

We're going to encourage it.

We're going to be looking for good folks, good people, who got the base.

And they got it.

They're going to go up.

Well, there's much that can be done in the service.

All the services that you're doing at your job,

We can still do a better job in these areas.

We were talking a little earlier about the D.C. National Guard.

Their officer corps is up to about 30% black, but we still can improve on that.

Well, in D.C. they should.

Yes, that's correct.

They're all within the population in D.C. and you should have to.

No, it's not.

You can't have, but they're up to 30%.

They're going to have to go home.

They'll come.

And the other thing, too, is to be sure as you move them up.

Of course, a few fellows will all know.

Be sure as you move them up.

And the fellow is the best qualified guy that you can.

I had, for example, one of my military agents, Colonel Coffey, who is a, he's a colonel, he's a lieutenant colonel, he was out with us, and so forth.

He's a remarkable, remarkable fellow, remarkable fellow, and he's in that rank, there's no question, he's over there, because he's just the best man in the job.

That's the way we like to feel about this.

We want all of you to feel that that's the sense of, get that spirit down.

It's a little hard, because you know, there's always this constant tendency to make it appear, well, this is a racist country, this is a racist service, and you can't get a chance, but, and you've got to be discriminated against, and so forth.

And on the other side, let's face it, there is a prejudice in this country.

There is, there is.

We have to recognize there always will be.

We've just got to calm this pressure.

But on the other side, you'll have some who are, who will say, oh, just because it all happened should be, no, he gets a better break, and I have another break, and so forth.

So you've got to do that.

But you as the leaders in certain of your areas, I mean, we may do as much as anything else just to knock down the myths, just to tell the truth.

and present the case as it is, because if that's done, it helps a lot in our program.

I think it's important, you know, Mr. President, that at least my experience has been, and I don't know about the others of you now, but where I met with Bruce, I actually thought it was a high-tech game going on, going on.

Yeah.

You have another person that's been selected as a figurehead.

I think that the realization is that the opportunity is there, and this is respected and wanted.

You never get beyond the final classification and you're dead.

You have to say, the young kids are dead.

That's what we love you there.

But what I mean by we don't think

I think that's the point.

I want you to emphasize.

I think my experience has been about the same as his, and I've made several talks with him.

For example, I go up to the recruiters every once in a while and say, you know, that's my grandchild.

Yeah, I think my experience has been about the same.

There is opportunity at the top, and I think that gets charged.

Right.

And I think that's the way the kids that I've talked to...

The one thing I want to say, too, is that I do not go along with this concern.

I mean, we all know that the volunteer forces are quite a way along.

I mean, this being among ourselves before, but now in our practical, nothing else is quite a way along.

When they talk about this concern about, well, they're teaching many Blacks, and he says that if the opportunity is there, and if it's a good occupation for all to be in, fine.

I think it's great.

It's very interesting to know that when you see what has happened to minority groups throughout our history, they have generally moved into areas where others were not.

Take, for example, let's take the city of New York.

Now, there are, of course, a great number of Jewish people in New York, as you know.

But as far as teaching is concerned, it's practically a Jewish profession.

Why?

Because there they found an opportunity and they moved in where the Catholics and the Gentiles, basically, and the Protestants and so forth were not going in and so they got in and they got in and got in.

So is it in so many other areas.

Take, well, the Irish are an excellent example.

Why is it that the Irish have become

and have been so effective and so dominant in city politics.

It isn't because there's so many of them in New York and Chicago and other places.

We're in Philadelphia, Missouri.

But the reason is that it's an area awesome.

The reason is that it was an area where, based on opportunity, where

where the Protestant elite and so forth in those places were not, were not, you know, competing effectively, so they moved in and they made it their domain.

And then, of course, having come to that point and got all the recognition politically,

then they move on into business in all other areas.

So here's an opportunity to serve some kids.

Here's the way to go.

Well, thank you very much.

I want to give each of you some presidential compliments to take away.

Yes, sir.

There you are.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you for having me.

Well, take one.

Thank you.

Don't take up the damn game.

I don't play.

He's pretty bad.

How are you now?

Oh, no, I'm not dead.

I was out there.

I was gone again, and I only have a stroke or two now.

Oh, really?

I want you to know that this is the follow-up to this question.

It's a marvelous job.

You know, we, the Secretaries of Defense, always catch a lot of hell for things that appear in the room, and he has really worked in this field.

With this, we have a strong cooperation with the Chiefs, I must say.

Oh, the Chiefs have been fine.

Right.

Yes, they certainly have.

Well, thank you very much, Scott.

Thank you very much.

Well, we'll also take a copy of the picture.

Are you sure?

Yes, sir.