Nixon, Mitchell & Haldeman on Supreme Court nominations

8:33All right, what's up, brother?
8:36The dates are not pretty nice, are they?
8:38It's gorgeous.
8:40Hell of a lot better than last night.
8:42Wasn't it awful?
8:43It was on and on and on.
8:45It was a waste of time.
8:51But I had to do it.
8:52We had to do it.
8:53She said a nice person.
8:54Worked her butt off.
8:54I don't know where they came that goddamn thing and made it up.
8:58She said it was the one that was fucking it.
8:59Yeah.
9:07She's still in there fighting and she needs some help.
9:10She talks to me about it all the time.
9:20That's correct.
9:20We were talking to him about it last night a little bit.
9:24Well, I think he has some ideas about how he can get at it.
9:29Now, that's all there is to it.
9:31He's a terrible manager, and just loses it all trying to build up the Kennedys, and they're hiring Kennedy people at every turn, and that's just goddamn wrong.
9:39Well, I'm not going to support him anymore.
9:43I'm not going to look down on him anymore.
9:44This Blair is apparently bringing in somebody at $60,000 a year to do his work.
9:47I think they can put the kibosh up mad and maybe get Blair out of there.
9:54But I think Bob Palomar is the key to it, because he's been closer to it.
9:59Well, I've got a couple of more ideas.
10:06I have talked to Luke Powell this morning, early this morning.
10:10He will do anything you ask him to.
10:13He does character, but he's got a problem, which he's checking out, eyesight.
10:19And it's an unusual disease that has a slow process of deterioration.
10:28It doesn't bother him now.
10:31He is checking with his doctor and will get back to me as soon as he can today.
10:43He's had this ever since he was in the Air Force Reserve, so it's a very slow process.
10:49Something that floats in the eyes that impairs his...
10:54continued reading he said that he now of course works with the books and the briefs and everything else just a question of whether or not the doctor's judgment will be if he steps that up and accentuates the reading process as to whether it's going to impair his ability to perform he is the high type individual you know that would take these things into consideration no they wouldn't that uh
11:22Just go for the honor and let the chip fall every night.
11:28But he put it on the basis that anything that you would ask him to do, he would do.
11:32Did you have to talk to him about it?
11:34No, because we want to know what the... Is Paul up there with that meeting?
11:37No, he was up there with some clients.
11:39The election operation?
11:41He said he'd be back to me as soon as he could today.
11:44Then you'll call...
11:46Then I will get in touch with Walsh and tell Walsh to provide the scenario.
11:51Which would follow that.
11:53He will emphasize again that now we're going to go over how we want to approve tomorrow.
11:59Well, and we also want that woman of course to put all that together, but I think it might be better to say that the danger would be very bad.
12:05Let me say that I can see what the enemy might have said, and I saw them.
12:10In any event, they don't approve alone.
12:12I just say this, sir.
12:14I can keep it with me.
12:15It's the stature and the rhythm of the journey.
12:22I have to believe that that is the only thing that's surfaced in the press.
12:42Here again, they'll seize on the fact that it's an intermediate court, that their opinions are not distinguished, and, you know, put the usual crap that you'd make a case out of.
12:54Now, if they don't go, then there'll be a little more thinking.
13:00It seems to me, Jonathan,
13:05Not that Smith went by, but I would have come back then.
13:10If we go to Powell, then I think we could go for what we want on the other button, you know what I mean?
13:16And God damn it, they're going to say he's distinguished, aren't they, or are they not?
13:19Powell, they've got to.
13:22I mean, everybody in the country, of course, has been put before Blue Powell as the southern nominee.
13:30Well, that's good.
13:33And it seems to me that we gain this way quite coldly, unless we get the woman.
13:40While we gain Smith and that good member of the court, we basically are putting two court lawyers on.
13:51I think we ought to go back to your, if you think you should get by the bar, apparently got by for a certain career, you ought to go by our floor.
14:01Now, here's the argument for it.
14:05First, we will have made some effort to come.
14:08It doesn't have to be here in any way as far as the state's concerned.
14:15But we might as well take a cap, which would be good and nice.
14:20the followers of the right age, right?
14:21Yes, sir, that's right.
14:24And was, did he get, did he get, kind of go back to this, when he was put up for the circuit court, what did he get, kind of a rating in the bar?
14:33Just qualified.
14:34Just qualified.
14:35Not qualified.
14:36Not well qualified.
14:39I was about to say, I think that we'll run into the problems there that we have with some of the rest of them.
14:45He's not nationally known as one of the great jurors.
14:50All right.
14:51On the other hand, I think we could, I think if we put two that are just qualified, that's one problem.
14:56But if we put one, Powell, and then let him take him around for three, four days.
15:01I'm just thinking that if, then I think we can take the one, and I think we can take the other, but I don't think we have to take Powell.
15:08And then just go to somebody else who's known this politically.
15:11You see my point?
15:19I would, I would, no, I don't believe they will do that.
15:23I think that they will probably come out with this not opposed category.
15:30How long does he need them for?
15:3312, 14 years.
15:34How about one year?
15:40About a year.
15:43Sure, of course.
15:44the Second Court of Appeals.
15:54Jesus Christ, I put them on too long.
15:55You see what I'm getting at?
15:57I don't see that Smith would get us anything in terms of politics.
16:03I think Mulligan would, very frankly.
16:06Only one that'll get you anything.
16:09large chunk of politics versus the woman.
16:12I agree.
16:13I understand all that I'm talking about is only if they don't take the woman.
16:18We ought to be ready with our second kicker.
16:22And I didn't want you to limit it to Smith.
16:24That's my point.
16:26Matter of fact, do it.
16:29Well, you can think about that.
16:30What is it?
16:31How does it feel to you now?
16:33Would you not agree, or do you agree, that we could go to Baltimore, that you took, after all these replacements in New York?
16:42We took, uh... How?
16:45Well, I still think you'll get some flack from it on the lack of distinction business, and
16:52uh the fact of the matter which i think we've recognized all along you're going to get some flack on the lack of distinction no matter who you put up there unless it's one of of the obvious you're probably not going to get any but you're going to get uh or one of these old distinguished nationally known people they're the only ones that fit in the category i think we must recognize that now you could uh
17:22You'd probably get it if it were, go back to Charlie Breitel, a Jew from New York who's had a great record on the Court of Appeals.
17:30I heard so far you'd get away with that.
17:33It's a great distinction because he's Jewish, even though he's a conservative.
17:44Oh, he's 62.
17:45I don't think he's legal.
17:46I don't think he's legal.
17:51His record on the court doesn't show that.
17:54His record has been anything but.
18:14It's where they're
18:17Maneuvering the newspapers and the liberal senators is kind of maneuvering you out of your choice of appointments.
18:24It gets really down to that factor.
18:25Yeah.
18:26What are your reactions to what we ought to do about it?
18:29Well, first, don't you feel that we're right in doing the Powell thing?
18:33Yes.
18:33I just have a good feeling about Powell some way.
18:37I think he's so... You tell him, God damn it, for these blinds to stay on there.
18:40You know, that's all I'm thinking.
18:43Stay on there, Corey.
18:46He's got to take a job of them.
18:48There isn't just any fooling around.
18:51Well, he holds a deep feeling about his ability to perform.
18:57And I put it on the basis of, for Christ's sakes, if you can read now, that's the most important thing.
19:04Because of the circumstance that the president's going through with this court.
19:10Does he realize the circumstances?
19:11Oh, yes.
19:12That's the only reason he'd take it.
19:14He doesn't.
19:15He doesn't.
19:17Yes.
19:18And sure, he's gone through this with the discussions with me and with other people, of course.
19:24Berger.
19:25Well, John, have you got anybody else besides a bright telephone?
19:28What about that judge?
19:32Toro?
19:32Oh, Christ.
19:33Is that it?
19:35Damn, no, I'm not going to do that.
19:37Genoux?
19:38Genoux is not, in my opinion, Mr. President, reflective of your philosophy.
19:42Forget it.
19:45Well, there...
19:52Here again, you have the age bracket.
19:56There's Tyler in Mansfield in New York.
19:59There's a judge on the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts, a broker, but hell, he's only been on the bench up there a year.
20:10Harvard Law professor, everybody's ranting and raving about he's probably conservative in the criminal law, but what did he do in the other field?
20:19You just can't tell.
20:24B-R-A-U-C-H-E-R broker, I think they call it.
20:30Well, you can't tell unless they've had this traditional history.
20:46When you come down to it, what we're willing to take, I understand, because we don't get the... What we're willing to take, really, why not?
20:54All of it.
20:55All of it.
20:58All of it?
20:59That's it.
21:00Let me just give you the synopsis.
21:03Here's Burke, who knows all these people, works with them and so forth.
21:08This is his pitch that he made leading out the southern end of it.
21:13In the Northeast, you will recall, I rate the Second Circuit potentials including Harold Tyler, who is a district judge and a Democrat.
21:21Walter Mansfield, who we just appointed to the circuit court there.
21:26Mansfield, I think, is a weak character.
21:28He's 60 years old.
21:29Tyler's in his middle 50s.
21:31And probably Judge Mulligan and Judge Breitel.
21:35Judges like Lombard and Friendly are 68 years old or older.
21:41Now, this is the sort of thing.
21:43And then there's Judge Paul Reardon, who was in the Supreme Court in Massachusetts, who's 65 or 66, and Judge Deneau, which is the one for me.
21:52Any of these would strengthen the court.
21:53Now, here's...
21:54He got Mulligan on the list.
21:56He got Mulligan on the list because he thinks Mulligan is a bright, common, able fellow.
22:05But whether we can get the bar to agree with him on the ratings is a problem.
22:11The question is whether you just want to take somebody, although he has been a dean, has still been on the bench a year or less, and elevate him to the highest court.
22:22They will, of course.
22:23For Christ's sake, something.
22:25Elevate the deans to the highest court.
22:27Yes, sir.
22:27As a matter of fact, Parliament was on that circuit court for a very limited period of time.
22:35But I'm trying to add the paucity of people that are available for the appointment of this court that will receive a claim.
22:43Look, I'm not concerned about a claim.
22:50Let me put it this way, I would have to sell over half, half a load of a claim.
22:58God damn it, we don't have to appoint everyone.
23:03Did I point out they didn't say burgers?
23:05You didn't distinguish some of them, did they?
23:06No.
23:06We looked at the editorial.
23:07Yes.
23:08Black men seem distinguished.
23:09Quite the contrary.
23:11They weren't distinguished at all.
23:14But you could justify them on the basis of their sitting on the circuit court for the period of years.
23:20That's right.
23:22So, basically, we're just not going to get clean people, John.
23:28Not on the left.
23:29On the left or the older ones.
23:34That's actually the subject matter.
23:36Now, they talk about people like Wright, for Christ's sakes, he's really a little blood winger, he's on his third marriage, and just all mixed up.
23:44You wouldn't know what happened to this guy.
23:46He could be another Douglas before you turn around.
23:51Yeah, I see.
23:52I didn't know that back then.
23:54And as far as you're talking about Lee from Chicago or Kirkland from the law school in Chicago, those people, I just
24:02They're not going to follow your philosophy.
24:04They just wouldn't do it.
24:15Is there any harm done to Willie?
24:16I'm just thinking, you've got to move fast.
24:19If they whack Willie down, I want to put the names up right away.
24:22Would you think maybe you could put Willie down, Francho or Smitho at the same time?
24:26He should come up with it.
24:30Well, yes, well, the one question I want to ask you is, well, to answer your question, possibly we might because it's been so recently that they've lifted Mulligan's background, etc.
24:51I'm inclined to think that the bar is just going to come through a not opposed business and you will have to take the charges of mediocrity.
25:03So you intend to go with Smith?
25:08If we don't...
25:09If we don't get rid of him, I'm sorry.
25:13That's over.
25:13That's the issue.
25:14Well, I think, Mr. President, it depends entirely where you want to come out.
25:19If you want to come out without a controversy and with acceptance of your appointments, I think that you would accomplish that with a bright teller of Mansfield.
25:35not lower than that in the hierarchy of their selections.
25:41In other words, the question is how much acclaim do you want over these appointments, or how much flack do you want to take in getting who you want?
25:54Well, we were cutting down on flack right away at this point, almost.
26:05He's the blocker.
26:08Yeah, but we've got him on the front end.
26:10He's accepted and goes through, and then we've got the same fight all over again.
26:15Second.
26:18If Luke Powell's doctor tells him that he can't serve on that court, do you want me to pursue the Baker thing?
26:23Yeah.
26:23Let's go on.
26:24Luke Powell will do it if he possibly can.
26:32If he'll do it, he gets it.
26:45The people like Berger and the rest of them, they're still talking about judges the age of Burton, for instance.
26:53You know, they just look in the court as accommodating their current situation.
26:58They don't look down the road to the future and, you know, it's up there someplace like that.
27:03Incredible situation.
27:05Why couldn't we take the moment of need?
27:10It's an honest man's need.
27:14He didn't get a lawsuit.
27:17I'm certain that... You don't have the heart of law then, to the extent you have the other years ago that you did law, was there?
27:35Yes, and yes, his law practice was, while he was dean, was rather spotty, needless to say, and tended more in the public field, doing
27:46the Constitutional Convention for Rockefeller and some of the judicial special committees created by the legislature and so forth.
27:58If you go to Smith, and as I would say that, he might come up with a call.
28:05You never know.
28:07You don't know if he's going to come up as well as some of the others, but, oh, I think he would.
28:11You know, that's a bunch of damn snobs at the NBA probably saying he's going to come up.
28:15From a metropolitan area like Los Angeles.
28:18The problem I see with him is that then I can see that they're developing probably just to find a couple of corporate lawyers.
28:25You see, they're getting that power loose.
28:27They're just too kind, aren't they?
28:30I don't know if they could make that stick.
28:35The city the size of Richmond, they get into a wider range of things, being the leading law firm there.
29:02And I have to tell you that his firm also has approved municipal bonds.
29:07Oh, shit.
29:07Bastards.
29:13I still think more than... Well, they uncertainly decided I haven't got any other... any other candidates.
29:30Foundations gravitate around the same people.
29:34They come from different sources that they saw as the deans of the law schools, the elderly, members of the bar, and all the rest of it.
29:53I couldn't be sure about CAP.
29:56I wouldn't have a plan as either.
29:57CAP's are very able.
29:59brilliant individual.
30:01Of course, he's half-Jewish, or at least his name is Jewish.
30:07He has been in public life, which they seem to hang some criteria on.
30:11He's from California.
30:12We're not going to take him as Jewish.
30:16Let me say, is there a way that we can get Smith willing to date her?
30:23I mean, I wouldn't mind
30:33I really don't know.
30:36I think that they're getting themselves so screwed up and fouled up in these areas that I don't think they know what they're doing.
30:53And they're having a harder, just about as hard time as we are.
30:58Because as we look around, they realize that
31:02Their same recommendations are not really viable with the age and the location.
31:12We aren't going to go through this again.
31:15I don't care.
31:17It won't be able to provide a person.
31:21I just think the best thing is to take our rats and they go testify.
31:23But we know that we can almost predict what they will do.
31:28So why put ourselves at the mercy of the damn thing in advance and make them have them get out all the names on the side of the country before we get out the positive side?
31:37Well, this is coming from the press.
31:40I know that they're digging it out.
31:43The moment you start checking them through there, it gets out, John.
31:46We can't go to the APA and start checking them.
31:50And we both murdered him pretty well.
31:51And that was a well-kept secret.
31:55And that was a damn good way to handle it, wasn't it?
31:59It certainly turned out that way.
32:00It's fine.
32:01It's more like that.
32:05Hope you've got some judges coming up.
32:09There are.
32:10We've appointed some good ones along the way.
32:13And we've got the right age groups.
32:15We've tried to keep them as low as
32:18Possible in the ancient Bible.
32:24Think of Powell and Baker.
32:27Fine.
32:30If we dump the woman.
32:33Yeah.
32:34I'd like to put Baker in that.
32:34Sure, I have a choice in Baker.
32:36I'd put Baker and Mulligan in the other group and see what they come up with.
32:40I mean, would that be useful enough?
32:44Or he just might grieve.
32:46I just think of the time limit here, too, that these backers are going to need to take.
32:52Well, they have a time problem because they don't know Howard Baker's legal background and so forth.
33:02And what I'm getting is, I think at the time, let's suppose that they come up with Baker and say, no, I'm following him.
33:07We've got to go back to him on another one.
33:09You know what I mean?
33:10We'll be screwing around here at the end of the year.
33:11I was thinking that...
33:16Well, in a case of Merrick Becker, you might say the hell with him and go ahead and send his name up.
33:22Assuming he's had a reasonable law practice.
33:26Why don't you check that out for me?
33:28See what kind of law practice he had, how reasonable it was, what he means to my soul.
33:36In other words, go with Becker like you do on, like we did on...
33:46And they let the bar do what they did, do their dandies.
33:51Baker got confirmed just like that.
33:53You know, that is one I'm sure of.
33:54Because, first of all, Scott would work his ass off for him.
34:01Get him the hell out of the Senate.
34:02So would Griffin.
34:04Griffin would work his tail off to get him out.
34:06And in other words, Baker has good credentials with those folks, you know.
34:08I mean, even though he's sort of running against Scott.
34:11And he'd get all the senators.
34:13Sort of a gutsy young man.
34:16I see you've got a boy through three republicans.
34:18He's kind of got a name.
34:20Alan Neufeldt, how hard is that?
34:21I think he may have done it, Judge.
34:23You think he's that conservative?
34:25Oh, Christ.
34:25Yes.
34:26Yeah, I think he is.
34:27I think he would go with a very different thing like this.
34:33I mean, he's, he isn't, isn't my, he's the greatest stand-up guy, but I think he's young.
34:45coming from that off and so forth.
34:46He's not going to be like a Douglas or a Black.
34:49I don't believe so.
34:50Howard is basically a Dierkson type of officer.
34:54He'd come out of his office more often than Potter Stewart.
34:58Oh, I'm sure of that.
34:59More often than Potter Stewart.
35:01Unless he gets some foible in some of these areas, which some of them do.
35:06You know, Dan Weller, you know,
35:09No, I think Baker would be good.
35:11I'll tell you, that might be a thought.
35:13If they turn the woman down, then we just throw up our hands and send Baker.
35:22Check his law back.
35:23Baker and Powell.
35:25They'd have a hell of a job complaining about either one of them.
35:29They'd never complain about Powell.
35:31You mean the Senate?
35:33Mr. President, I think Phil Mulligan would be a great judge on that court.
35:40I think that you will be accused of another mediocrity because the guy hasn't got a track record.
36:03other than dean of the law school.
36:04You don't consider the Baker of the Union Senator to be a mediocrity?
36:07I don't think they'll accuse a sitting senator of the United States as a mediocrity if Howard has some law practice.
36:14Bird?
36:14He did.
36:15Well, he didn't have any law practice.
36:17Right.
36:18Well, he wasn't even admitted to the bar.
36:19I don't know.
36:26Well, I don't know.
36:27Clark Kuykendall can make the run then.
36:29Yeah.
36:30Don't be worried about the Senate seat.
36:31This is more important.
36:32Let's just be categorical about that.
36:34And also, we've got to think more about winning the Senate seat ourselves.
36:38Pointing to Baker and then courting her is one damn bit...
36:42I mean, it might be that the court may owe us more than having to run the tickets to Senator and have to fight the bus mission.
36:50That's true.
36:50And I also, and I probably have a Baker against Brock down there with the maneuvering for... Jealousy.
36:56...postures in the political organization operation.
37:02The Powell-Baker thing might, uh... Two Southerners.
37:11That's good.
37:11If they're looked upon as Southerners.
37:13They're not.
37:14They're both Tennessee border states, what the hell.
37:19Would you say it might watch your service age?
37:23It might have a bigger political impact than any other combination that you could put together.
37:28Because of what?
37:30Because of the Senate and Baker.
37:32because of Lou Powell, outstanding president of the ABA, et cetera, and take care of the South and the border.
37:38There's another thing that appeals to me about it.
37:39I have started to play these people like when I'm ready to raise a bird, and they ask, well, what the hell is there we're blocking back out from?
37:55And, you know, we play, we do play that in here, and I tell them, look, I really, I really raised a poor old man.
38:01God damn, he's a good man.
38:03All of them?
38:04All of them.
38:05The finest people I've ever met.
38:05The strongest man who got the staff on board.
38:07Anyway, they're not, they're not the other people.
38:09But all of them, I said, God damn it, I want you to get that staff man and read them out.
38:14I said, if I ever hear them see any more comments from the press, the White House staff, or White House press people, and this or that, I said, God damn it, I don't care who these judges are.
38:23I said, they don't know who I have in mind.
38:28So...
38:29and pissed me off for it.
38:31Just wrong.
38:31We have enough trouble to press out any one of our jackasses in here.
38:35There's been an awful lot of gains played with this thing out of this White House, because my heart people have been running them down, and I tell you, they're all of them alive.
38:42Top of the White House.
38:43Yeah.
38:46And why they all have this used sighting complex, I don't know, but they just, they're scared the hell out of him, and they're always using him to program everything through his timeline.
38:55Yeah.
38:57Well, that's...
38:58I'm afraid that Paul, they know, is going to be a claim.
39:01It's got to be a claim.
39:03I would believe that.
39:07And the paper, they might.
39:08Can we find out right now what the practice was?
39:13Well, it's a type of practice and so forth that's pretty hard to get out of a Martindale puddle or something like that.
39:19I was thinking of getting them down, sitting down with them, and go over it when I get back.
39:25All right, do that.
39:26Why don't you do it right away?
39:27Say Howard, and I'll let you up here.
39:30Cold turkey.
39:30Please.
39:31A million minutes.
39:32Another million minutes.
39:35Oh, so old.
39:36I think it's very young.
39:38I don't think he's...
39:53I'm sorry.
39:53I'm sorry.
40:01Can you, within a minute, the Howard Baker stage?
40:06Don't tell anybody you've been there.
40:08And then just check the, check his, you've got one of those congressional records, recluses, and so forth.
40:15I'll be back as well.
40:17I'll see you right away.
40:28I don't think we should submit down to the bar.
40:31Or would you?
40:32I don't like to clear the mercy of the goddamn bar again.
40:42And that'll lead out.
40:47Or would you?
40:48I don't know.
40:49It depends on how we want to program our turndowns.
40:56How hard do you want to figure it out?
40:58Then I believe we ought to just send Baker out.
41:02Just say, well, we did our best.
41:05And maybe the thing to do is to send Baker and Powell up.
41:09That's what I mean.
41:11But without waiting for a bar clearance.
41:14Yeah.
41:15Excuse me, were you just calling me?
41:20No.
41:20But as I say, it's how you want to play the... Oh, he's not about Powell or Eager.
41:26That's right.
41:27We don't have to.
41:30This is not.
41:30Now you're talking.
41:31Now you're talking.
41:32See, this is not really a clearance process.
41:34This is an advisory operation.
41:35Why not send them up?
41:37Now, we know that Paul will be cleared to the bar, and we'll send Baker and Paul up and send them up.
41:44It literally gets turned down.
41:45This is the point.
41:46We need to move immediately.
41:48Rather than you're having to go around in the lab and set a mark with all those types and that.
41:52You know, you know who the hell's a PhD.
41:55It's a bunch of, I mean, there's certainly some Jews.
41:59And also, there are some Jews, but also, you know what they are.
42:03Were you acting in the ADA?
42:06I was, I was in a silence.
42:07I couldn't go to the goddamn ADA.
42:09They couldn't get me.
42:11I never, I addressed them, but never.
42:13The ADA is like all professional organizations.
42:16It's an incestuous group.
42:17Now, let's take good old Charlie Brown.
42:19Charlie's a sweet guy.
42:20He's a nice guy.
42:21Are you talking to me, sir?
42:23But Charlie is not an awful right at all.
42:25But he's a joiner.
42:27He's a joiner.
42:28And he's a big man in the ADA.
42:30So he's an expert petitioner.
42:32I can tell you that I know in the firm we were in, John, I think 50 lawyers are smarter than Charlie Brown.
42:40That's true.
42:41No, I used the ADA.
42:41There was a section in it on local government law, and I used it for all the lawyers around us.
42:46It's 45.
42:47It'll be 46 in November.
42:48Or in November, 25.
42:52And uh, he, excuse me, I forgot what you were calling your old man's phone, just went off.
42:57No, I got it at his home.
43:01Got his, uh, where did he go to law school?
43:04University of Tennessee Law College.
43:05Yeah.
43:06He went to Tulane, he had the University of the South, and then to University of Tennessee Law College.
43:15That would be 1949.
43:17Come in, come in.
43:20He was in the Navy 43 to 46, discharged in 46, and doesn't say when he practiced.
43:23He was lucky to have sent him in 66, so it was 20 years from the time he got out of the Navy to the time.
43:29When did he get out of law school?
43:30He got out at night.
43:32Right.
43:3349.
43:3349.
43:34That's not bad.
43:35There's a lot that's going to happen in the Navy.
43:4017 years of practice.
43:41What did he do in the Marines and what's it indicate he's done?
43:43If he got anything else, he doesn't say.
43:45He doesn't.
43:48Would that be what you're checking on?
43:51Howard was in a firm in Knoxville, I know, because we used to work with him.
43:5549 to 66 would be 17 years of practice.
43:57It's not bad, except for some old hard things.
44:05Getting back to the scenario, it really depends on how hard you want to play the turndowns.
44:12If we've got turndowns, we could say to hell with them.
44:16They wouldn't approve this woman.
44:18because you'd use it for both purposes.
44:20In other words, get off the hook with the woman.
44:25And also the reason why you're not submitting the names to them again, because you just don't believe in their judgment.
44:33I'm not going to have a record of putting them out of the way.
44:36They'll turn her down, too.
44:39But they're not considered crime.
44:41I'm just not going to have somebody for it.
44:44That's really what I'm getting down to.
44:46by having them submitted and exposed and beaten around the press, God damn it, I'm gonna get it first.
44:52Then they can go color in.
44:55No, I think we, I think we're putting too much at the mercy of the American bar.
44:58I really believe that.
44:59Well, we're putting it at the mercy of the press, if you point out.
45:03But you see, by doing it to the bar, then it goes to the press, and then the press has to sort of hedge on it.
45:08We can't do that on this next one.
45:11On the factual, technical basis, this is truly an advisory opinion, which nobody's supposed to know anything about, and it isn't formal.
45:20So what we want to bear in mind is how we want to get off the gambit of the bar and put the responsibility for turning down a woman on them.
45:30And in view of that, why then, maybe we just say, well, the hell with the bar if they can't approve these people of this character.
45:38Let's send their hands up to the Senate and let them go ahead and testify before the Senate.
45:44Yeah.
45:45You see, the Baker thing would be looked upon, the Baker-Powell thing would be looked upon, the Southern strategy of the vengeance.
45:51Correct.
45:51Is that a problem?
45:57I just think that that would have to be looked upon.
46:00On the other hand, Baker would be highly regarded as a, I mean, he is to the press relations.
46:04I mean, he's regarded as a very intelligent, he is.
46:08Very able fellow.
46:09He's an able fellow.
46:10He said immediately, the son of a gun is gone.
46:13He's gone with the tapes.
46:18Which will they look at Baker and Powell as the same as some of the people from the Deep South that we know about?
46:31No, it doesn't.
46:35Not much of a Southern strategy.
46:36It isn't mine, frankly.
46:37Let's face it.
46:41Haynesburg was a strong third.
46:44That was Southern strategy.
46:46It was a strong third, as we know.
46:49But that's what they were able to hang around.
46:54But this is quite different, I think.
46:58Basically, we're going to the center of the country, to good people, the best qualified people, and the woman's been turned down.
47:06Well, the options are... And bankers are curious about that court.
47:10I would believe so.
47:12As I told you, he's a very persuasive man.
47:15And Howard's a good lawyer.
47:17I've discussed a lot of these constitutional problems with him.
47:20Is he a good lawyer?
47:21Yes, I believe he's a fine lawyer.
47:25He's got a good mind.
47:27Oh, Chris went through the Voting Rights Act together, and we've gone through revenue sharing long before it became an administration policy.
47:37You know, he was out in front on it.
47:41Okay, John.
47:43I think you've got a better strategy.
47:45Let's see what they do with the woman.
47:47If they take the woman, if they give her...
47:51Well, if I get an okay from Lou Powell, or if I can talk him into it, we'll work the scenario that we talked about yesterday.
47:58I will talk to Walsh about the combination and put it pretty strong to him on the basis that if they turn her down, it's going to be their responsibility and your options to deal with the bar.
48:11I got it this way, but now that it's all detailed, actually it's going to become known.
48:17My options have become limited.
48:19Did I say that?
48:20I said it, Jack.
48:23Yes, sir.
48:25Stir up the bar.
48:29Well, thank you, sir.
48:30Well, I'll make coffee and some milk here at the bakery.
48:32I wasn't getting down right, but I'll get a mess visit, ma'am.
48:38Don't know that any more organic plays.
48:40I want a few, though.

Nixon, Mitchell & Haldeman on Supreme Court nominations

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Also recorded on October 19, 1971

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