Nixon, Haldeman & Bandaranaike on Supreme Court appointments

49:50I'm sure it has.
49:52I'm sure, yeah.
50:16Trust their views.
50:17You told them, no, there's going to be no more discussion about what happened.
50:22Yep.
50:23And I'll get it, you know, whenever we get one.
50:25That one today, we ought to be able to find somehow.
50:30If you saw it, yeah.
50:32And that's, you know, some of them, there ought to be.
50:36Or just send somebody to the press office.
50:39Send a White House spokesman.
50:42I think that was the word.
50:45I'm sure it's not worth the least.
51:13But I had a recommendation.
51:14Now I had a call for him.
51:17It's a call.
51:17I wanted to express the disappointment of many Californians that Theodorus Lilley was, he called it Theodorus Lilley, must be even considered for the Supreme Court.
51:28He was on the other side of the park where he was born.
51:31He used very strong language to denounce Judge Lilley and her husband.
51:34So we've got Ace Call opposed to Mr. Lilley.
51:44Call us B-1-A.
51:45Yeah, I was in the A-6 pre-episodes again.
51:55Look, if the American fire crews are doing quite what we're doing right now, apparently Walter Johnson, well, you don't know.
52:10Well, it might help.
52:12They ought to be really taking responsibility for it.
52:16You see the point?
52:18Sure.
52:18Right over there?
52:18Sure.
52:19Well, I've got to work on it.
52:20Don't tell anybody.
52:20That's... God damn it.
52:22Don't worry about it.
52:23That's yesterday.
52:24I had a... We had a point.
52:25I hate to do it, but I don't mind talking to John about the Hoover thing.
52:28I have.
52:31But we just must...
52:32It's best that nobody's staff knows a thing about this.
52:35Sure.
52:36Of course, they're interested.
52:37They're afraid I'll make a mistake.
52:38You know, they look back at how you were in the car.
52:42Well, they don't trust Mitchell.
52:43Don't worry.
52:44We are looking down every avenue this time.
52:46Mitchell knows.
52:46He's going to get bit twice.
52:49Not on this one.
52:55What are you stressing?
52:56I have no opportunity to stress this.
52:58You know, his concerns and his recommendations and his propositions.
53:01He's got his names in it.
53:03Charles has got his.
53:04He's got his.
53:04I think I like what everybody wants.
53:07Some don't want to look at what some do.
53:12I mean, some just want to look at them.
53:18It's a funny thing, he got a very mixed thing up with the Orioles.
53:21I don't know what called the answer.
53:30He had a husband, too, who said he made up something.
53:36Well, that's what I've been told.
53:39I don't know that he is.
53:40Personally, I'm not sure.
53:51It really just depends on whether they do a reasonably good job.
54:01It's very distressed.
54:06That's it.
54:19The plaque they've been trying to present to you for two years, you've turned them off three times.
54:30Now it's not going to work.
54:33I saw this one, I'm just not going to go just by name.
54:40You don't get 15 of all of them.
54:49All of these should be done by Pat, and I, and try to build them up.
54:55I don't think there's anything for us.
55:04It's a Paul Revere tradition.
55:05It's a Paul Revere quote on it.
55:08Expressing your support as volunteers.
55:10That's appreciated to your support as volunteers.
55:18We do need, they're really pumping on the people thing on here, on your boards still.
55:28They're set now on the pay board, they're set with this Judge Bolger from Tacoma as the chairman.
55:36And they have now the problem of one remaining public member and everybody on here approved this as defined.
55:45They feel that this is a spot that should be, if possible, filled with an identifiable Democrat.
55:50All right.
55:52The present members are Weber, Jacoby, and Capels, plus Mr.
55:56Folk.
55:56All right.
55:59They have come up with the strong recommendation for active alien reasons, including Kermit Gordon, on it, who's President Brookings' candidate.
56:13and the idea being that it traps them.
56:18Their second choice would be Robert Solow, Professor of Economics at MIT, who is head of Kennedy's CDA staff.
56:29Their third and our second is Robert Turner, who is Professor of Economics in Indiana, who is a member of the CDA of the University of Michigan.
56:41I would take the county's fat man if he would do too much after Saturday night.
56:45The floor to Sarah Loveson, professor of economics at Michigan University.
56:52For the two remaining business members, they're all right.
56:56Mike Bennett is accepted at McCollum.
57:00They think he'll serve the people of Patagonia.
57:04Now the price commission, Jackson Grayson of SNU has agreed to serve as chairman.
57:11Alan Spivey has declined.
57:14And they're now going to either Fred Weston or Robert Manzali.
57:16I don't know if they're going to have Scranton.
57:21They have Scranton.
57:25Scranton is accepted.
57:26Scranton, Queen and Coleman.
57:29Serena Whitman, the woman.
57:31Wilson Newman.
57:33We're now in fairly good shape on the regional.
57:37spread all the way down to the Midwest, South, Southwest.
57:39One man who could be the rightful intelligent man to have the time, and I don't think it serves his interests, as I mentioned, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don't think it serves his interests, I don
58:07I don't think sometimes it's hard to run through things.
58:24The possibilities of the first thing, where it goes, follow them in, right?
58:32If you want to try as much.
58:36Paul Powell, for the moment.
58:43We'll ask him for a reason.
58:49We'll hold him today on campus.
58:50On NATO, did you get into that?
58:51That was looked at on people.
58:55Because our list now is text on number one, if you want to try.
59:03And Henry Dillman, number two.
59:07I am planning to be a more sophisticated person.
59:15That's right.
59:20Rather than a more of a business side.
59:31Yeah.
59:36Okay.
59:39I think we'll do something.
59:44Maybe we have to leave it now for the moment.
59:49I just didn't know whether it was possible, but he ought to go.
59:53He ought to go.
59:54This is a good time to have him go.
59:58He's got a candidate.
59:58Well, the possibility of Rudy Peterson.
1:00:00I don't think we're going to get him.
1:00:05Yeah, but he could be.
1:00:06He could be shifted.
1:00:10That is important.
1:00:13That's where we're going to get going, I think.
1:00:23I think we're kidding ourselves and trying to get into government because there's money problems.
1:00:32But he'd be ambassador to Japan.
1:00:35He'd be ambassador to Japan.
1:00:38It is their understanding, it's CAP, I checked with CAP again, to be sure, it's their understanding, but your, your Google on CAP's mental, you said I agree with CAP.
1:01:02The interpretation of that, where he, because he said announcement now, canceling Apollo 16 and 17 would have a very bad effect.
1:01:10I agree.
1:01:10I agree.
1:01:11They said that you were approving Apollo 16 and 17.
1:01:14I want to cancel now.
1:01:15Okay.
1:01:16You do want to cancel 16 and 17.
1:01:17Yes.
1:01:17I do want to cancel that.
1:01:20And then do other phases.
1:01:21Did you want to follow his point of coupling the announcement with the thing we're going to fund space shuttles and air builders and traffic like that?
1:01:29Sure.
1:01:30But the other two, though, the other two jobs, you see, Bob, your analysis there is so correct.
1:01:36I just don't think we should take the risk of a possible goof-off in that thing.
1:01:41Well, and especially, you've got one scheduled for right when you're going to be bouncing around the world.
1:01:46And to be out in China and have a space problem would be a real disaster.
1:01:51The other thing is just postpone.
1:01:55And that's it.
1:01:59and then cancel the bargain.
1:02:04Well, see if we're willing to do that.
1:02:06Postpone and then cancel.
1:02:07If you can get away with it.
1:02:08But it may be that it involves too much of a money problem.
1:02:13And if not, we'll just let you get yourself shooting before the election.
1:02:16That's right.
1:02:18No shots in 72.
1:02:18Correct.
1:02:20Thank you.
1:02:29You had shot a little while back on Italians, and we've got some more pretty good things.
1:02:38Well, we've got several.
1:02:39We have to put a Democrat on the NICC, and we'll use an Italian there.
1:02:45We can put one on the Service Academy Board of Visitors, which is a good one.
1:02:48Would you please call on me about turning off the M1?
1:02:50Oh, yeah.
1:02:51Remember, that's what the purpose is.
1:02:54And the head sounds a bit like it.
1:02:57So, yeah.
1:02:58All right.
1:02:59All right.
1:03:00Covered all that.
1:03:02Public broadcasting, they have not been just sitting...
1:03:05It's getting worse.
1:03:07It is getting worse.
1:03:09And they're making a monumental effort to try and figure out a way to get legislation to change it, which is the only way they can change it.
1:03:20They feel that they can't do it.
1:03:23And what they've come up with now is to, well, we can't.
1:03:27We can squeeze it.
1:03:27It's just what we're going to do.
1:03:29Plus squeezing Macy, who runs it, the head of the staff man,
1:03:36Plus, mobilizing the only two guys with any steam on the board that we have are Jack Rather and Tom Moore, the DC campaign.
1:03:46He talked to Rather last night.
1:03:48He was at the David thing.
1:03:51And Rather agreed to go to work.
1:03:54What we're going to do is try to create a scandal
1:03:59in public broadcasting on the basis of their subsidizing of these, uh, leveling commentators and the, the, you know, to make some horror stories out of some of the things they're doing and say that this is inappropriate use of public funds and, you know, make a stir it up in the, within the board.
1:04:14Then, we knew there was a charge to this.
1:04:18Flanagan, Maynard, and Colston.
1:04:20Flanagan and Colston are working as a team on it.
1:04:22So much they have to do to get somebody to give it to that sort of, uh,
1:04:29I don't know, man, it's...
1:04:42It's entirely going to get old.
1:04:44I don't know if the streets are going to re-create anymore.
1:04:47That's what they're going to do is an idle environment is going to cut them down.
1:04:50Try and pull them out of the network business too so that all our money is here to our relief from this very central thing that they think makes the midway line.
1:04:59Good.
1:05:00Good.
1:05:00That's good.
1:05:00On California unemployment, you can't ask me anymore.
1:05:03Well, we can.
1:05:04It's a matter of just keeping pressure out of my head.
1:05:08I know that's hard.
1:05:10The California jobs program is, we've got an interim report here, and they now project 74,000 direct jobs in California by fall of 72.
1:05:25And with the conservative multiplier, this is 111,000 jobs, which is 11,000 more than our goal was 100,000.
1:05:30And we've got to break down this into DOD and other funds and water resource.
1:05:40John Rose has been monitoring it and says that he, that's his official report to you through Planet Ben Weinberg and he's sent a sub-rosary to the audience and he says that it's a question
1:06:01that this has accomplished a fair amount, but he says that spending is going to reduce the $2 billion that's lost by reduced DOD contract awards.
1:06:13And therefore, as a political matter, he says he thinks we ought to spend more money.
1:06:17Any additional spending will run into resistance from OMB.
1:06:19The question is whether you want to screw up, you know, go ahead and do it.
1:06:24That was a kind of thing.
1:06:26And, uh...
1:06:28What he's suggesting, he says, you have two options.
1:06:31You can take this memo and write, well done, and send it back.
1:06:33They're waiting for your reaction.
1:06:38I can send a memo to Schultz or Weinberger for both saying that you're pleased with the results to date, that you think they're insufficient to accomplish the objective you want.
1:06:45A supplemental or something like that.
1:06:49They won't do it.
1:06:51They won't do a supplemental and you don't want one.
1:06:54But it'll stir them up to do other things and find alternatives to get more stuff in as Rose is starting to...
1:07:19The Robert Allen interview, the one that you have on Thursday afternoon, is the guy that is doing the article on Nixon's military career for Reader's Digest.
1:07:32He's the one that's been working with the SCAF people.
1:07:35He was the Marine Captain with SCAF.
1:07:40And he has a lot of reminiscence tapes from Chick Dyer and Flux.
1:07:45Some of the others.
1:07:47Why don't we still have to do it without you?
1:07:52Do you spree guys in prison?
1:08:05Yeah.
1:08:06Spree them?
1:08:06Yeah.
1:08:11I have Dan too.
1:08:15But I need to talk to Rose, or somebody around here who knows what the hell I was in the service of.
1:08:22I just can't do it anymore.
1:08:24I'm not gonna do it anymore.
1:08:30And that other guy I remember is in the service, on self-serving and so forth.
1:08:37It's not that, it's not him.
1:08:40That other one, Ruth Boss, is a...
1:08:44It's not an interview, it's a quick in and out.
1:08:46She is the editor of a tabloid on promoting voluntary action by you.
1:08:51And Frank Dale, it's the biggest teenage publication for under time.
1:08:59And it's a supplement, a syndicated supplement out of Cincinnati Inquiry.
1:09:05And it was a matter of just letting her come in to meet you, really.
1:09:10Tell her she's doing a great job, and that this was
1:09:15Not for the... What you're gonna do on that damn scat thing is to tell everybody, uh, who the hell do we have around here that could do this?
1:09:29We got anybody to do this?
1:09:31Well, you know, we... Alex pulled together all that stuff on, uh, to have those people and all with the thought that you might have to know if you were actually gonna have that in sometime.
1:09:39And they knew if you had this guy then, just, just cover it up, soak it all up that night.
1:09:48There's obviously no ruts on this article.
1:09:50It's not something that... Just as I can't get into this article this morning.
1:09:56We've got so many people who want to do articles with this man the other day, and they've got to go without my distribution.
1:10:06Okay?
1:10:12On that kind of one, I don't think it does.
1:10:14Well, sure.
1:10:15It's better for other people to say to each other, say, I don't remember this at all.
1:10:18And then you do some research, you've got some stuff already known.
1:10:21I think so.
1:10:22Do you have to see her that you know?
1:10:24Oh, hell no.
1:10:29I don't really think so.
1:10:35What they're suggesting is an option if you don't see her.
1:10:41She's here to try to assess the extent of U.S. government support for her and her husband's fight against communism in the Philippines, is the way she puts it.
1:10:56He intends to retain control until communism is defeated, either by extending his term of office or having her reposted as president.
1:11:05Yes, sir.
1:11:05I think I should stay out of it.
1:11:07I'd have to revise the Constitution to do that.
1:11:10What do they suggest?
1:11:11They say that we should treat her with reserve, but at the same time, we don't want to give her costs that would be a rebuttal.
1:11:17And I think it's got to be seen in some way, but I can't get her here.
1:11:21What they suggest is that either you have her into the office,
1:11:25for, you know, a brief visit, and then let her go and have tea with Mrs. Vinson, or that you have Mrs. Vinson invite her to tea, and then you drop in on the tea for a few minutes, and then leave for work, because we're having a talk forever.
1:11:37I think it's, uh, the final thing is just to have her see Mrs. Vinson.
1:11:47Craig came around last time.
1:11:50Uh...
1:11:55You don't have to see her every time.
1:12:00Well, she'll be here, uh, maybe at the end of the week.
1:12:04I think it's extremely brave of her to be in the office.
1:12:08Yep.
1:12:08And get her the hell out of here.
1:12:12Whatever, I have to give her this next time afterwards.
1:12:22She's here, though.
1:12:26She's been in Iran with that celebration.
1:12:27She's going to see her son, and then she's coming out to stay with the boards in Detroit for a while, and then go back to the Philippines.
1:12:32And once you're here and see her, you're going to see her.
1:12:48You're going to see her, isn't it?
1:12:54It's raised hell, you know.
1:12:57But many just say that I'm Senator Chan.
1:12:58And that it's, you know, just a great call, courtesy call, you know.
1:13:05You're a courtesy call, not a conversation.
1:13:06You know what I mean?
1:13:09I'll just sit down with you for 10 or 15 minutes.
1:13:11I don't know where I'm flying in the middle of that.
1:13:17And that's that.
1:13:18Fair enough.
1:13:19I guess the tea thing, no.
1:13:20I'm not going to go over there.
1:13:20I know I'll get suckered there.
1:13:26I ain't be willing to do that.
1:13:27She will be willing to do it, so... We're gonna get a job this morning, for me.
1:13:33Good.
1:13:33Very, very close.
1:13:34If I lose her, then it's good.
1:13:36You know, I'm trying to give her an edge before I apologize.
1:13:46Good idea.
1:13:46Also, will it go up?
1:13:48Sure.
1:13:48I just called in right off the bat and said, you should be here by the end of the day.
1:13:53You should be pretty sure of that.
1:13:57He's fine.
1:13:58He's lobbying me and Ari on his trip to Moscow and to Manchuria.
1:14:03Listen, I'm just out of the question.
1:14:04Just listen and watch.
1:14:05He said, let me tell you what I think.
1:14:07I said it in notes, but really, I know you can't hide it.
1:14:09He said, well, first of all, I don't want anything to take place until after we run the China trip.
1:14:15Before we go to Moscow, we've got to hold on to that.
1:14:17That's number one.
1:14:19The second part is that...
1:14:23It is not needed.
1:14:25I mean, we have diplomatic relations with the Russians.
1:14:29It is not the same thing at all.
1:14:31And for us to just send a mechanical advance.
1:14:34That's exactly right.
1:14:36And we can go over all things.
1:14:40And for us to send a party over there in advance.
1:14:43You see, I didn't want to talk right now, but that would set up a bad thing, because then in Egypt you'd have to send a high-level party.
1:14:52Well, it wouldn't matter to do that, except that he says he's done the same to the Chinese, and the answer is it's the same situation.
1:15:02We've got to keep Henry's issues when he gets back.
1:15:05Henry will want to go older.
1:15:07And he's not going to come.
1:15:09I mean, I've already said he's not going to come to Vietnam Day.
1:15:12But you see Bob for him, he'll go over there and talk to the branch and go see him and all the rest.
1:15:16That would be the last straws for those.
1:15:18And it's wrong.
1:15:19Absolutely wrong.
1:15:21He says, well, I've got to work everything out to be sure that we're talking about it.
1:15:26It's different.
1:15:26It is not.
1:15:27I've got to work it out.
1:15:31Is he racist, Henry, with the fact that he just wants to go to Moscow?
1:15:35No.
1:15:36Henry is not racist with me at all.
1:15:39Tell him how this is.
1:15:39I will tell him.
1:15:40I want you to tell him.
1:15:42I don't...
1:15:45For Christ's sakes, have Al wire Henry and tell him to do it.
1:15:48That is the problem.
1:15:49You need to tell Al to get sent.
1:15:51But don't tell him about Bill.
1:15:52No.
1:15:52I want you to tell Al that Henry's, that if the subject ever comes up, that I am absolutely opposed to his going to Moscow to defend Moscow.
1:15:58The other side of that crime is, in Moscow, we're going to play our game on the public relations side.
1:16:05And Henry will get a disaster.
1:16:08I mean, yeah.
1:16:14So I think to do that, just sort of set that up.
1:16:17But on Bill's point, it doesn't make any sense.
1:16:19He's, I know what he's doing.
1:16:20He wants to reveal that he's the same.
1:16:23And put the same argument in something.
1:16:26But there is nothing.
1:16:28We said, I always say, Bill doesn't know how much we've got going on with the Russians.
1:16:32Yeah.
1:16:32And he would, frankly, might say the wrong thing.
1:16:39Yeah.
1:16:39Bill may be able to take some other view in some way.
1:16:43Well, he's really good at curing.
1:16:45He's definitely out to do it when you do that.
1:16:51There's no other way to change.
1:17:04Does Marriott really get Bill Minder off the Kennedy Center?
1:17:07No, Chris.
1:17:09John, I think she's right.
1:17:10Oh, I think she's right.
1:17:11I mean, my point is, you know, my point is, you are doing everything you can to get Bill the hell out of there, isn't it?
1:17:20He's got to go.
1:17:21The son of a bitch is going to get the staff.
1:17:23There's no question.
1:17:24See the way he operates.
1:17:26No question, I mean, so, John.
1:17:27Is this correct?
1:17:28Yes.
1:17:29Well, have you got the votes or what is it?
1:17:30No, we don't have the votes.
1:17:31I'm not going to use it on votes.
1:17:33I'm going to just do it on pure, cool-blooded pressure.
1:17:38How can you pressure him?
1:17:40They've got us a capitalist government.
1:17:42And that woman, what's her name?
1:17:43Nancy Hansen.
1:17:44Yeah, or I think it's more this way.
1:17:45No, sir.
1:17:46Good.
1:17:46Let's get him out of there.
1:17:47Alice Marion doesn't like government, so she's going to see it.
1:17:50But he's not.
1:17:52He's the one that told me, give me the whole case again.
1:17:54Yeah.
1:17:56Now the way we've got to get him out is I'm going to have to sit down with Roger Stevens and just smile and say, if you want your million and a half in operating funds, you're going to have to get a new operator.
1:18:08All right.
1:18:08Otherwise, Congress won't vote for it.
1:18:11Congress won't vote for it if we don't prove it.
1:18:16And that's been made clear now.
1:18:17And Roger Stevens knows that.
1:18:18He has made the point to me of the fact that if you think we can block you, we'll never ask you to partake.
1:18:25If they find out I did this, they will, but I don't think Stevens will play that.
1:18:31And if they do, then they do.
1:18:32We'll still, we won't put it in the, it has to go in as a supplemental.
1:18:36They're afraid to go in for legislation on it.
1:18:38We just won't put it in.
1:18:40Well, it's not a big deal, but she's right.
1:18:50No, it's terrible.
1:18:51So it's something we've got to try to get the idea together.
1:18:59He is.
1:18:59He is.
1:18:59He's a distraught to begin with.
1:19:04He does that.
1:19:05We have one good man there in the artistic side of this, Julius Riddell, who's the music director of it.
1:19:13And he's in point Roger Stevens.
1:19:15He's got a clip.
1:19:17He has a car clip.
1:19:18So I should be back to him.
1:19:22He's asking for the Senator to go.
1:19:25But I guess he's the only guy about when he grows up.
1:19:30So, we've got him on our side now, but he's trying to get somebody in.
1:19:38Doesn't make any worse, you know.
1:19:39Who is it?
1:19:40The player?
1:19:40No, Roudel.
1:19:41Oh, this is not weird.
1:19:44We won't get good.
1:19:44You've got the man.
1:19:45You've got the prime minister here, Mr. Preston.
1:19:47Investors without his pay.
1:19:48He has to come in here and meet some of these investors here.
1:19:55You know, he recommends that he sit in here with Mr. Preston.
1:20:00If you're ready for it.
1:20:02They must stay after us.
1:20:03They both get out.
1:20:04What is it, 30 minutes?
1:20:07It's a 30 minute meeting, Mr. President.
1:20:09You'll leave 12 o'clock away from me.
1:20:11Well, it's 005.
1:20:13005, what is it?
1:20:14I won't find out.
1:20:16Okay, well, just be sure that it's moved, Mr. President.
1:20:27Well, Mrs. Marcus would handle it.
1:20:36On top of that, Mary is surprising.
1:20:39She's a stronger woman than I realize she is.
1:20:42She has winter.
1:20:44She's bitter and tough.
1:20:47I love it.
1:20:48You know, they pull all this stuff, but they do.
1:20:52They were trying to stop it.
1:20:56We had asked for a bus, and it was a bus.
1:20:59And it was hard.
1:21:00It was hard.
1:21:01It was hard.
1:21:02It was hard.
1:21:05It was hard.
1:21:06It was hard.
1:21:07It was hard.
1:21:08It was hard.
1:21:08It was hard.
1:21:09It was hard.
1:21:10It was hard.
1:21:11It was hard.
1:21:12It was hard.
1:21:17She said, oh, right.
1:21:17Well, we will sit over here.
1:21:19Our custom here is to sit here because they've got pictures.
1:21:23And you'll get back in there.
1:21:25That's what we call the front end.
1:21:27And let's see.
1:21:28You know that?
1:21:29You sit there because that's what we're trying to do.
1:21:33That's what we're trying to do here.
1:21:35And this is a bunch of times.
1:21:37Stay with us.
1:21:40It's nice to hang there with us.
1:21:42I think that's a good idea.
1:21:46Now we have a pouch for the head.
1:21:49Okay.
1:23:36Thank you very much.
1:24:02that there are all problems in your country, like all the countries that you've been in, over a period of two or three years ago.
1:24:11Yes, yes.
1:24:13Thanks, Mr. Chancellor.
1:24:13I'm so glad you're here.
1:24:16Does it help?
1:24:16We try to, but we think, you know, sometimes we don't know whether it helps or hurts.
1:24:19Well, there were times, and I think that the other minister was very responsible about getting the data out of the country.
1:24:27And it was very unprepared to face the situation.
1:24:30Yeah.
1:24:30Yeah.
1:24:32You were so sadly in the hospital that you died.
1:24:39And, uh, took us all by surprise.
1:24:43And the first week later, we were all dead, sir.
1:24:45Yeah.
1:24:46But you were in a very difficult situation, right?
1:24:48But you moved.
1:24:48You moved very fast.
1:24:49It was very good.
1:24:50There's no way to handle these things.
1:24:53And, uh, I didn't receive any help, indeed.
1:24:56Many, many who received love received assistance.
1:25:01It's a real question.
1:25:02You can't stop the usage.
1:25:05We have two helicopters.
1:25:08Only two helicopters are in service at one time.
1:25:10And 72 police stations were attacked in one night.
1:25:1372 police stations were attacked.
1:25:17And the roads were blocked.
1:25:18You couldn't get in there.
1:25:20It was an invisible police station.
1:25:21It was defended.
1:25:23Because they were going on for three days.
1:25:27Helicopters are very useful.
1:25:34Yes.
1:25:34So you move right in and then off to places where the operations occur?
1:25:49Yeah, pretty much.
1:25:55How do you evaluate the situation?
1:26:21Salvation at the present time.
1:26:25And we are right there in the eye of the hurricane, which is terrible.
1:26:34The worst thing that could happen to either is to fight.
1:26:39The worst thing, I mean, to either, I mean, even the Indians, of course, they have far more weapons
1:26:53Nobody's in such a war.
1:26:56There's so much to be done in other areas, and all of the lead would be a terrible legacy, and refugees, and killings, and so forth and so on.
1:27:07So our position is one of, which is I even attend to yours, but we're going all out to help refugees, all out.
1:27:16We are trying to rebuild the field on both sides, and I look here, and I look at these people
1:27:22Anybody who promotes it in a very bad position, our Congress will just throw up its hands.
1:27:31And that's what the war occurred there in terms of our aid programs.
1:27:43Or would you prefer tea?
1:27:45Coffee's pretty good here.
1:27:49Do you take tea?
1:27:52Oh, of course.
1:28:00Of course, it's the most famous.
1:28:05But of course, there's some on the trademark, too.
1:28:13That is true.
1:28:15In other words, why don't they take your, why don't they take your drink and put it back on the floor?
1:28:22What's the right thing to do that's sort of the next thing to do?
1:28:29You asked us the next thing to do.
1:28:33We served a lot of tea in the White House.
1:28:38You know, she does in Paris.
1:28:41You got coffee too?
1:28:42Yeah.
1:28:43Yeah.
1:28:45So I recall your country.
1:28:57Of course, I was only there a couple of days.
1:29:05It seems to me I attended to it.
1:29:15It's a very rich country in terms of the agriculture.
1:29:42Yes, I remember it very well.
1:29:48And they insisted that we see that.
1:29:50It goes with the fact that I can travel a little more than I do now.
1:29:54Now I live in that country and I'm just going through the day.
1:30:00The tea is now being exported.
1:30:05Is that your picture?
1:30:09And they've been increasing our production.
1:30:13What is the reaction of your country to the two trips that I have announced, the one to the UK and the other to Moscow?
1:30:35What is the reaction first from your country
1:30:45and you and also your colleagues that you've seen in that part of Europe.
1:30:52Are they worried about it or are they very candid about it?
1:30:56I can't tell you.
1:30:56Well, you talked to the Soviet Union a day or two after ISIS is gone.
1:31:00Yes.
1:31:01The reaction has moved.
1:31:02I spoke to the Soviet Union last week.
1:31:05The Soviet Union took two people.
1:31:07Two people.
1:31:08Two people.
1:31:08Two people.
1:31:11This has happened years ago.
1:31:14Well, that's what our diplomatic wires became.
1:31:18We all feel that.
1:31:18The best thing that can happen in the interest of the world is to create tension.
1:31:27We hope that by this dialogue, some positive results will be seen.
1:31:33We are very thankful for what it's done.
1:31:39But the point that I should emphasize with regard to both, and I do this because I think it's important that you preside as you do over a country that has to be having this country, various views about many of these things, is that both of these trips are first and foremost
1:32:09Second, that they have a very thoroughly planned advance, to me, means that that level, involving as they do so-called superpowers in one instance and one of these superpowers in another instance, can be a very big disaster if
1:32:38if they are held and nothing comes out, because it creates a euphoria and a great build-up and a let-down.
1:32:47That's why we've announced them so far in advance.
1:32:49The plan is going forward and so forth.
1:32:53So in the case of the Soviet Union, we'll cover everything from arms control to East-West relations to trade to possibly if the issue is still there, the peace, which it probably will be and so on.
1:33:11In the case of the drink we came, one thing I should emphasize is that we're not taking one at the expense of the other.
1:33:24And each understands that.
1:33:28We're seeking basically a bilateral relationship with one, a bilateral relationship with another, to which we'll
1:33:39for the purpose of discussing and negotiating matters of mutual concern.
1:33:44But in the case of the King, there is, of course, a very different order of magnitude, even though we have no relations with the King.
1:33:54This will be the beginning of a long process to discuss what our relationship should be, and recognizing that down the road,
1:34:09The government resides over three quarters of a billion people.
1:34:16And it's better to have them basically in a dialogue rather than to have them in isolation.
1:34:24Our friends in Asia, many probably are concerned about it.
1:34:30They don't sit on it because they consider that to be dangerous.
1:34:34But some of our friends with a real land of mainland China
1:34:38I believe that while this move to be king may jeopardize their situations, that they will, that they have, frankly, subversion and a lot of other things.
1:34:52But he just has experience, as you know.
1:34:54To just say Singapore and Malaysia has problems in that respect, clear up the chicken and run around through Thailand,
1:35:05and so forth, and then keep it reaching the South.
1:35:08And Turkey, of course, has a special problem because of their history.
1:35:13However, the thing that we feel is that the United States, having some kind of relationship with the dialogue with BK, cannot be harmful to our friends and to be helpful.
1:35:30Because if we are not in a position
1:35:33discuss such matters with them, then we are only in a position to support our friends and no position to exercise some, shall we say, medicated influence with those who might be their opponents.
1:35:55So that you see it.
1:35:57But I said, we have no illusions.
1:35:59And I'm sure you, of course, would know this because you live, as I say, in Columbus, and I have heard it down there.
1:36:08Nobody should have any illusions that these trips mean that we, that the historical and ideological differences between the United States and our friends
1:36:24They still have different interests than we have.
1:36:29And they will continue to.
1:36:30We expect this.
1:36:32And we respect it.
1:36:34On the other hand, since we're both going out of these talks with this mind, there's not going to be any problems.
1:36:51I've seen some speculation of the fact, some in Asia and some in Europe, that the United States runs over Moscow, runs over Peking, and as a result of all that, that it's kind of, that what they say, one of the statutes, and some believe that it means that
1:37:19Now we have a period of peace and no tension.
1:37:25That hasn't happened.
1:37:26That hasn't even happened among friends, let alone among those who have been appointed.
1:37:31The second point is that there is a feeling that the United States doesn't understand that as a result of what we do, that we will do things there at the expense of our friends.
1:37:43That hasn't happened here.
1:37:44That hasn't happened on their side.
1:37:46What is really involved here is the question
1:37:50negotiation at the highest level on issues in which we have big differences.
1:37:55We don't expect to solve them all, but we hope to start the process in the case of Big King for discussions in the future rather than confrontation.
1:38:07Of course, in the case of Moscow, we already have made considerable progress on Berlin, and
1:38:23Well, of course, you see, we have a wall.
1:38:26While our allies in Moscow are enormously competitive and have, in many areas, very effective and very better, and they will continue to be, because of historical reasons.
1:38:38Let's face it.
1:38:39The Soviet attitude toward Mediterranean is different from ours, and the Soviet attitude toward the Philippines is different from ours.
1:38:47I mean,
1:38:48They're half the oil, and maybe the Europeans are half the oil.
1:38:53So you have to determine what the face of Europe is going to turn out.
1:38:57This we understand.
1:38:58This they understand.
1:39:01But the overwhelming and overriding fact in both cases is that now both the Soviet Union and the United States recognize that if there is a war, there'll be no winners, only losers.
1:39:17That's true of the superpowers.
1:39:19And second, both recognize that there is no chance at this point that either will allow the other to get an advantage.
1:39:28One of those circumstances, if you can't get an advantage, and if you have to rule out the possibility of frankly initiating a war, what do you do?
1:39:39You talk.
1:39:41And then you find areas where you decide whether we will compete.
1:39:45We still recognize that we're going to have to, as we believe, different systems of government.
1:39:49so forth, but we're going to use our influence to avoid those attacks that might bring us a confrontation.
1:39:58Now, looking at McCain, in the long haul, that's the same thing.
1:40:03It is not at the present time a major, but we are power.
1:40:06It will be.
1:40:07It's inevitable.
1:40:08To have 750 million people is industrial potential for the last 20 years from now.
1:40:12It's almost how many years?
1:40:13It's going to be a very significant power.
1:40:18So, uh,
1:40:19Looking forward to that time, it's very important, we believe now, to start the dialogue here after we have already spoken.
1:40:30What I emphasize to you is that Richard Gershwin, as a successful politician, I would say that no one goes into meetings with frankly less
1:40:50But the most important thing about the talk was that neither he nor I had solutions about our differences.
1:41:06We said, oh, you want this, you want this, and so forth.
1:41:14I think there's no service when you have a certain thing to serve.
1:41:18Now that we've had this nice talk, a cup of coffee or a cup of tea, that this way of work is.
1:41:26So this is our attitude on this.
1:41:29But the main thing we want to be sure that all of our friends know that we feel that we're close to your country.
1:41:39I mean, we're not speaking in terms of alliances now, but in terms of our systems of government and the rest of it, is that we have very much in mind our role as a world power.
1:41:53We have very much in mind our role as a Pacific power.
1:41:55We're not getting out of the Pacific.
1:41:59I don't mean that we're staying in the Pacific, but we believe that as a Pacific power, we have certain responsibilities we look to be.
1:42:10What we're doing here is simply beginning dialogue in the East that we already have with the Russians.
1:42:17And that's how you get my evaluation, because naturally you're getting many questions on the message.
1:42:28You know, one of the reasons I know this is a very hard issue, too, for the Americans here, we've been on the issue of the Taiwan.
1:42:39It is incessant to take the position we do as you know.
1:42:43We support the ambition of the UK.
1:42:44We oppose the expulsion of China from Taiwan.
1:42:48We believe the expulsion of the nation is such a serious matter that it would be a very important question.
1:42:55I'm looking down the road, looking far beyond Taiwan.
1:43:00It seems to me that if the United Nations starts on the road, whereby you throw an agent out,
1:43:08where I thought it was the case when I came to assistance, I realized that they had talked in terms of trying to deal with the nation, which was ruled out by a simple majority.
1:43:21That could unravel.
1:43:21That's, I've indicated to you now, just so that you will see what our thinking is, because many of our friends in my Ohio community were talking about how we would take a trip to Beijing and still oppose the expulsion of China and Taiwan.
1:43:33Our view is that, looking at the Soviet Union, they have three governments, the U.S. and the U.S.
1:43:38Here, we believe in that, too, and we think that the important question issue has transcends far more than the immediate issue of Taiwan that goes to the future of the UN and all of its nations.
1:43:51Let us suppose that some nation adopts an internal policy that some other nations don't.
1:43:57Why?
1:43:57That in a burst of anger and emotion and so forth, the symbol of control over the United Nations
1:44:03And that's what concerns us.
1:44:04That's why I think, that's why I think, that's why I think two-thirds are expulsion.
1:44:09And I want to explain to as many of our friends, the vast majority, that is our position.
1:44:19Tell me, what is the, what is the, what do you see as the future of your country?
1:44:25How do your townspeople feel?
1:44:28You've got them under control pretty good.
1:44:31Well, it's only a very small percentage of the youth that are involved in this.
1:44:36A very small percentage of the youth of our country are involved in this incisive movement.
1:44:41I think about 50% or 60% of them are in the 35th Amendment.
1:44:49A very small percentage of them are involved.
1:44:55But this is, I think, a small percentage of the country.
1:45:00I mean, in practice, it's a small percentage of the country.
1:45:08I mean, in practice, it's a small percentage of the country.
1:45:19And at the same time,
1:45:24It is indicated to us what the people are expecting from us.
1:45:28It is a fact that we were able to control this.
1:45:32We were able to control it because we had the masses behind us.
1:45:38That's what we believe.
1:45:40The workers, the workers were with us.
1:45:42They were with us and they organized themselves to protect the agricultural city of Kuala Lumpur, which people loved.
1:45:49And they organized themselves and they progressed through the night.
1:45:54It's very unfortunate that it has to be done.
1:46:16Why, your security is so important.
1:46:18You're doing it all for your purpose, isn't it?
1:46:20Your security, not the threat.
1:46:21It could be from the border.
1:46:22It is, of course, increasing.
1:46:23But, you know, I was just going to tell you, I was reporting for an investor, which I've been giving some assistance, which is going to come in very helpful.
1:46:37Good.
1:46:37It's definite.
1:46:39I was just going to get, you know, a promotion.
1:46:40And I believe it's going to be higher than the result of wanting it.
1:46:46But if I must say that the masses were behind us.
1:46:52That is the main reason we were able to prepare this in such a short time.
1:46:59Our countries have been in this movement for 10 years, but we were able to control it within a few weeks.
1:47:04Which we were able to do because we had the resources.
1:47:10But we won't have that support if we don't do something.
1:47:16He doesn't want us to expect us to food for our homes.
1:47:24Sure.
1:47:25They want it like yesterday.
1:47:31They're very patient.
1:47:32How many years have you been with this company?
1:47:42Five years.
1:47:44The problem is that we have to start economic activity.
1:47:53We have to satisfy the masses.
1:47:59Otherwise, people will start again.
1:48:03It will be much more difficult.
1:48:14Therefore we want to be as optimistic as possible.
1:48:17Our idea of land is ready to be announced as soon as I get back directly from Iraq.
1:48:24And to implement that plan, we need the army.
1:48:30Difficulty.
1:48:33And we have to make a deal.
1:48:35We've got to ask people to sacrifice.
1:48:39In our situation, where we are safe is our fate.
1:48:41In the midst of it, we are safe.
1:48:43Yes.
1:48:43That's a big word.
1:48:49Do we not have both of those searches?
1:48:59It's a big part of your budget.
1:49:02You can't take it away from them.
1:49:05And the previous government made a big mistake in giving them the money.
1:49:09You don't need to give them the money.
1:49:14You can give them the rights on gas.
1:49:16This was in the war.
1:49:18You can give them the money.
1:49:19You can give them four pounds of gas.
1:49:21The government issues it.
1:49:23Oh, I see.
1:49:24Outside over and above that, they're trying to make a price to buy a new market for firefighters.
1:49:27This is a control price.
1:49:30Oh, but the people that buy it make a control price.
1:49:33It's a subsidy, I see.
1:49:34Oh, it's a subsidy.
1:49:35It's a subsidy.
1:49:36It's a subsidy for your family.
1:49:37They get the subsidies.
1:49:40The government, they have one listener, gave them one listener.
1:49:44And that listener, they gave three in order to, to protect the government.
1:49:51Now, you see, there's a terrible trade on our department.
1:49:56And it's very difficult for a political party to control this condition.
1:50:01So what we did is we restored the second institution, which was a great demand, which we promised them, but we put it up at 75 cents a mission.
1:50:08To try to counteract the effect of the free mission, it was a mission.
1:50:13But still, the subsidies are high.
1:50:15But they're not drawing on the second.
1:50:17They're not drawing on the second.
1:50:20Yes, they're still reporting about what that is, the commons.
1:50:24They have agreement with China.
1:50:25We are not going to have the U.S. right, because our right is back.
1:50:30So it's just a straight barter?
1:50:31It's a two-way, it's a two-way.
1:50:32You sell rubber to them?
1:50:32Yes, when you give them the U.S. right, and the right is from the country.
1:50:38They are not pledges from these two countries.
1:50:44They're still reporting back about that.
1:50:46What do you trade with Vermont?
1:50:49Hardly.
1:50:51You're just about alive, that's what it is.
1:50:54It might even have been from his people, but it doesn't.
1:50:57It might have been from his people.
1:50:59Burma said it to you the whole time.
1:51:02It's very, very different.
1:51:03I've been there since 1953.
1:51:04China likes it.
1:51:04They like it.
1:51:07They like it so much.
1:51:08Well, they're trying to buy it from Burma.
1:51:12They're trying to buy it from Burma.
1:51:20We hope to be self-sufficient, right?
1:51:23That means a great sale amount of foreign exchange, which is probably a billion.
1:51:32We hope to be.
1:51:34Your relations with China are very good.
1:51:36They're very good.
1:51:36You don't have any problems like the Indonesians have in that sort of your country?
1:51:41We hope to be very good.
1:51:49Give us assistance.
1:51:51Your relationship is so different than this, and you have a different position.
1:52:01Does either bother you or does the other bother you?
1:52:04No.
1:52:04Maybe it bothers me, but yeah, it bothers me.
1:52:07All right.
1:52:08That's very important that it's here.
1:52:10In relation to the boat, the Chinese, you know, they used to trust us.
1:52:18They took advice, just to be frank.
1:52:21Yes, I have.
1:52:26Pastor tells me.
1:52:30So, you know,
1:52:50Well, that's a very exciting time for, and a difficult, but exciting time.
1:52:56When you start to think of the, you talk about these expectations, 20 years ago, they wouldn't expect anything.
1:53:06Right.
1:53:06So at least now, the very fact that they're looking way out there in the case that something's happening, it must be pretty good.
1:53:16I don't think you say something peculiar to our country.
1:53:19It's very nice.
1:53:20Oh, you too.
1:53:21Everybody that we talk to and I talk to, of course, Latin America, Africa, Asia, you know, it's all the same.
1:53:35Here we can go.
1:53:36Europe.
1:53:37We have Europe.
1:53:38Yes, the Europeans are no exception.
1:53:43The fact that people feel about it, but after you get a certain amount, no, the more they get, the more they want.
1:53:50And they choose to do it.
1:53:53They choose the only quality of life.
1:53:54The type of jobs they want.
1:53:55Oh, yes.
1:53:57They don't want to do this or that or the other.
1:53:58They still think they want to work in a car or... And, you know, of course, there are...
1:54:04There's a certain disadvantage and a disadvantage case.
1:54:07And, you know, there are... You do everything you can.
1:54:12And they want jobs, and if you couldn't get a type of job, you cannot get the one.
1:54:16If you want to take a pharmacy, then you will have to come.
1:54:20Is that right?
1:54:21Yes.
1:54:21It's so essential to be a farmer, so it's just...
1:54:27I was made in a factory in Washington, D.C.
1:54:30So they tell people, go on, go back to the farm.
1:54:32Basically.
1:54:33I don't know if it makes me very active.
1:54:38That's one of the reasons why I get to see one of these sounds like this.
1:54:42The question, that's a ritual.
1:54:44And at least to take me to a sound that I want to see.
1:54:49Did you do that?
1:54:50Yes, and it took me years to find that sound.
1:54:53The cataract is over here.
1:54:55That'll work, right?
1:54:57The last day I found six of them in Vegas.
1:55:00Was it here?
1:55:04Yeah.
1:55:04You can't sit in a machine like that.
1:55:08I think that would be very religious.
1:55:37Let's, why don't we arrange that.
1:55:39We do have a little time on your schedule.
1:55:40The Secretary of Agriculture is a very, he's traveled all over the world.
1:55:43He's the former president of the University of Nebraska and is enormously interested in seeing our, some of our architect techniques and sheds and so forth and so on.
1:55:53I think he's worked on miracle rice and all of that sort of thing.
1:55:59And I think that we can arrange this.
1:56:05Well, Hannah, of course, is the former president of Michigan State.
1:56:16Elizabeth Hardin, all the same.
1:56:19It would be very, very interesting to have a part of that.
1:56:25Hannah would be good, too, because he's traveled as well.
1:56:38He's a great expert in agriculture.
1:56:42He knows this backwards and forwards.
1:56:48This is an area where we want to be very cooperative.
1:56:54We want to be as helpful as we can.
1:57:03And I mean, the problem is that if you start there, it's not a big way to get good, good packing.
1:57:07Sure, too, the transport is going to cost us more than the value of the animal.
1:57:11In this case, we go from a place like Australia, from the coasts, or India.
1:57:14India, of course, is much more expensive than that.
1:57:15In India, packing sometimes is more expensive than, you know, diseases and things like that.
1:57:22In this case, we're going to import them from this Australia.
1:57:29But the transport is going to cost us more than the value of the animal.
1:57:33It's a long way.
1:57:34It's a long way.
1:57:36To us, it's a long way from you.
1:57:37I know that long flight.
1:57:38We've got him to stand there.
1:57:41We found him to be doing the whole thing.
1:57:43Tax evasion and stuff.
1:57:44The problem is that he's got to be paid.
1:57:49Because they made it.
1:57:51They didn't make it.
1:57:52Because we fought it there.
1:57:58We can't have our systems shutting down.
1:58:03Well, it's an area that seems to me very important that you're emphasizing agriculture, because so many countries that I have visited, particularly this is the story of Latin America, where I've seen them all, is that they, as they raise their educational level, they ask everybody if they want to work in a farm.
1:58:22So they all say, that's industrialized.
1:58:25So they industrialize.
1:58:27And take a country like Brazil.
1:58:30Brazil is a big country.
1:58:33rich, and they have 45% of everything grown.
1:58:37And Brazil spoils the way to farm the market.
1:58:43Take a country like Peru, Brazil and so forth.
1:58:49They import foodstuffs.
1:58:52All they do, they just have their agricultural techniques.
1:58:55This isn't just farming, it's learning to grow, it's learning to, it's storage, transport,
1:59:01It's a huge business center.
1:59:05And those countries that will concentrate on their strengths doesn't mean that a country can't have, shouldn't have a mix.
1:59:13But this country, our country, as you know, is an industrial country.
1:59:17But it has a very solid agricultural base.
1:59:21Our few farmers, few as they are, produce enough for huge surpluses.
1:59:27And this is no accident.
1:59:29And I think it's very important that you're giving that kind of leadership.
1:59:33Your young people should know that going into agriculture not only is a necessary part for the country, but it can be a very rewarding business.
1:59:47The moving and industrializing and letting the land go is a great mistake.
1:59:57And also the connection is, due to work within the missionary practice, then that means the other part is that it's all about the influx of the family connection.
2:00:08And the important part is that the missionary trust is a component of that.
2:00:13And then the next one is the anesthesia.
2:00:16Exactly.
2:00:17What is that?
2:00:18I don't know what the meaning is.
2:00:26Oh, very little report there is that it has not been public for us.
2:00:35You know, there is a truce, a second to it.
2:00:40There's an uneasy balance being maintained between the Israeli on one side and their neighbors on the other.
2:00:52We are continuing to work for a
2:00:56Negotiating with a very temporary solution, which would be the opening of Suez, and I'm going to go back to be perfectly candid that you have not had great success yet, but we're continuing to work on both sides, because that is our policy.
2:01:21The truth is it's not a policy.
2:01:27for a period of time, just maintaining the troops.
2:01:29Everybody were sitting there with arms, and arms beforehand, whenever they came in the fire, at times in time in the future.
2:01:40So, I have to summarize by saying that we, we're going to, we already became one of the key troops, in fact, second to, to see if the balance system fits, so you saw it, I believe that you'd start something.
2:01:56We're still in the negotiating track, hoping for a breakthrough that could occur, and certainly would be, it seems advantageous to both sides, that since they can't take the whole step, they take half a step, and half a step.
2:02:28Oh, very little report there is that it has not been public press.
2:02:33And you know, there is a truce, a second to it.
2:02:40There's an uneasy balance being maintained between the Israelis on one side and their neighbors on the other.
2:02:57We are continuing to work for a negotiation with a temporary solution, which would be the opening of Suez and a mutual blowback.
2:03:13And we, to be perfectly candid with you, have not had great success yet, but we are continuing to work on both sides.
2:03:27because that is our policy.
2:03:28A truce is not a policy.
2:03:31I mean, it's better than a war, but over a period of time, just maintaining the truce of everybody bristling there with arms, and arms before our head, will inevitably be in the flare from time to time in the future.
2:03:47So, I'd like to summarize by saying that we,
2:03:50We're going to do everything we can to keep the troops in the back second to see that the balance system shifts so either side believes it should start something.
2:03:59Third, to pursue the negotiating track, hoping that a breakthrough could occur and certainly would be, it seems advantageous to both sides that since they can't take the whole step, they take half a step.
2:04:22that should be done first, and then go on after that to the next step.

Nixon, Haldeman & Bandaranaike on Supreme Court appointments

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on October 19, 1971

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