Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 596 › Conversation 596-021

Nixon & Rumsfeld on Gallup polling and Public opinion

Tuesday, October 19, 1971 · 1:39 PM–1:44 PM ET · Oval Office

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Rumsfeld, Donald H.Conversation596-021 on Tape 596 (tape position 03:19:12–03:25:33)StartTuesday, October 19, 1971 at 1:39 PMEndTuesday, October 19, 1971 at 1:44 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 596-021 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Donald Rumsfeld discuss public perception and political strategy, specifically focusing on the reliability of Gallup polling data compared to Harris polls. The conversation also addresses economic concerns regarding the stock market and the inherent uncertainty surrounding the administration's Phase Two wage and price control policies. Nixon emphasizes the trade-off between economic control and bureaucratic growth, defending the necessity of flexibility in their approach to managing the national economy.

Audio

Download MP3 (part 1) · 167.9 MB ·Download MP3 (part 2) · 124.8 MB

This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 03:19:12 into the tape and ends around 03:25:33.

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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· Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.
3:19:1336, 36, 17 years of the place.
3:19:14Right?
3:19:16Right.
3:19:20And Paul was a congressman.
3:19:30Right.
3:19:30Right.
3:19:30Well, I'll tell you, I'll just push that.
3:19:32That's for one of them.
3:19:34Not that one.
3:19:34I don't know all of them.
3:19:35I don't know all of them.
3:19:40I'll leave it as a name.
3:19:40Yeah.
3:19:45In other words, just to see what I eat.
3:19:51All right.
3:19:51Okay, thank you.
3:19:53Bye.
3:19:56Well, if we have our brothers with me, we'd rather have him have the victory.
3:20:01If we can't get him, then we might take victory home.
3:20:20Well, on the court, being a dean, they understand.
3:20:24So that is too good.
3:20:26Who's going to argue that one?
3:20:28I think we can make a pretty, we can fight pretty hard on that issue.
3:20:37Okay, fine.
3:20:51What is the situation?
3:20:52Did you have something that I need to call and follow up?
3:21:01Yeah.
3:21:01Sure, sure.
3:21:03All right, fine.
3:21:03Okay, sure.
3:21:05Sure.
3:21:06I was on a mission, that's why I had to take this call.
3:21:09I'm trying to close it out.
3:21:12Oh, all right.
3:21:12I'll call you back.
3:21:40Hello?
3:21:41Yeah.
3:21:41I was on phone with John Mitchell on a matter that I'm sure you understand.
3:21:46Ha!
3:21:47You got a... Yeah.
3:21:50Oh, you had something on that, didn't you?
3:21:54Oh, yeah.
3:21:55He went to school with you, didn't you?
3:22:01Let's do it.
3:22:05Well, he has distinguished from...
3:22:08Harrison, well, we talked to Harrison on Coastal, but basically Gallup has generally been considered to be without reproach.
3:22:18And, oh, there was a question in 1960 as to whether in the last weeks they got a little close to Kennedy.
3:22:27But the main point about Gallup, Gallup through the years, I think, has retained the most reliable poster.
3:22:34That's what people think.
3:22:35Oh, no, you're right.
3:22:40But we don't figure that they're, the main thing that people figure is they're not being bought by a candidate.
3:22:47That's what it gets down to.
3:22:50Right?
3:22:50I understand.
3:22:52But that's the way it should be.
3:22:53We don't pass anything around around here.
3:22:57When are they coming out?
3:23:01I see.
3:23:02Because they never know.
3:23:03They know before.
3:23:11But before the Soviet announcement was on the 12th, the Soviet announcement probably had a very little impact.
3:23:19Well, it did have some, but very little, I think.
3:23:31It depends on how much he waits to do the vote, particularly.
3:23:42More than one or two points.
3:23:43Good.
3:23:43That would be very helpful.
3:23:47You see, as you probably know, that the, uh, Harris had a book on Monday, and he's going to have to try to eat some of the better, better gallops.
3:23:59But I understand that.
3:24:04Yeah.
3:24:06Harris wrote, or got.
3:24:09Good.
3:24:10Good.
3:24:12So he'll get his figure, he'd think, by vice, by money, he'd get it.
3:24:18But he does say that he knew that it has gone up.
3:24:21Yeah.
3:24:22Yeah, so it's all the same.
3:24:28All right, one more.
3:24:29I'm just talking.
3:24:29Oh, I'm close to there.
3:24:32Let's go.
3:24:33Yeah.
3:24:34We have really a problem with the goddamn stock market.
3:24:37But I said, let the things slide around.
3:24:40That is a really bothersome thing.
3:24:42But they say, what about phase two?
3:24:44We're not uncertain about it.
3:24:46Phase two is going to be uncertain.
3:24:48It can't work without uncertainty, as you know.
3:24:54If you want certainty, we can give you certainty.
3:24:57And you can have certainty with a huge bureaucracy, or you can have uncertainty with a chance to regain your freedom.
3:25:06And now we just kind of hit that.
3:25:10And also, I think what the market is afraid of, and of course, in these days, aren't the businessmen of Disneyland as much?
3:25:18What they're afraid of is that there's going to be a chop-off in some of the way some of the factories.
3:25:23Well, there is, isn't there?
3:25:26Sure, how can you go to people without human?
3:25:28But on the other hand, John, there isn't any, I mean, John, there isn't any question, in my view, the thing you've got to accept is that, look, we've got meaning, and we've got the top five labor governments of the United States on the line, assuming responsibility for mitigating some of these racist, or, you know, or, or, or,

NARA Description

On October 19, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Donald H. Rumsfeld met in the Oval Office of the White House from 1:39 pm to 1:44 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 596-021 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 596-21

Date: October 19, 1971
Time: 1:39 pm - 1:44 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President talked with Donald H. Rumsfeld.

[See Conversation No. 11-135]

Also recorded on October 19, 1971

  • 011-134 1:37 PM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:37 pm and 1:39 pm.
  • 596-019 1:37 PM · 27 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 1:37 pm and 1:39 pm.
  • 596-020 1:37 PM · 23 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 1:37 pm and 1:39 pm.
  • 011-135 1:39 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Donald H. Rumsfeld talked on the telephone from 1:39 pm to 1:44 pm.
  • 011-136 1:44 PM · 17 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:44 pm and 3:00 pm.
  • 011-137 1:44 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:44 pm and 3:00 pm.
  • 292-001 1:45 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:45 pm and 2:53 pm.
  • 292-002 1:45 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:45 pm and 2:53 pm.

All 93 conversations from October 19, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 596-021, October 19, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/596-021 (accessed September 28, 2026).