Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 597 › Conversation 597-002

Nixon, Haldeman & Malek on Gender equality and Judicial appointments

Wednesday, October 20, 1971 · 9:17 AM–9:25 AM ET · Oval Office · 9 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Malek, Frederic V.; Mitchell, John N.Conversation597-002 on Tape 597 (tape position 00:06:08–00:15:31)StartWednesday, October 20, 1971 at 9:17 AMEndWednesday, October 20, 1971 at 9:25 AMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 597-002 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with H. R. Haldeman and Frederic V. Malek to discuss the recruitment and appointment of women to high-level legal and judicial positions. Following this, Nixon consulted with Attorney General John N. Mitchell regarding specific candidate vetting, the political necessity of increasing female representation in the federal judiciary, and strategies for managing potential appointments. The participants aimed to identify qualified female prospects to address public pressure and project a commitment to gender diversity in government.

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Position in tape: 00:06:08 – 00:15:31

part A, 6:06

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NARA Description

On October 20, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Frederic V. Malek, and John N. Mitchell met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:17 am to 9:25 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 597-002 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 597-2

Date: October 20, 1971
Time: 9:17 am - 9:25 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman and Frederic V. Malek.

     Appointments
         -Women lawyers
              -Jayne B. Spain

     Telephone call from the Attorney General

     Woman appointees
        -Judges
        -Unidentified woman

John N. Mitchell talked with the President between 9:19 am and 9:25 am.

[Conversation No. 597-2A]

[See Conversation No. 11-157; two items have been withdrawn from the conversation]

Haldeman and Malek left at 9:19 am.

[End of telephone conversation]

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Do you have any of these women that you've appointed recently, or any of the lawyers?
Is, for example, Janie's name?
No, Janie's not.
Some of them were, but one of them wasn't.
Check it out.
We can check it out.
I said we can check it out.
We can check it out.
We can check it out and see if that ain't been a long year and how many years to practice and that sort of thing.
And you might also be able to see if you have to check down and see if there's
That's what I would like to do.
And then see if they can then check to see if there's any others of that type.
Yeah, that are outside in the country that are on lists that you're looking into.
I don't need judges.
Just because we're looking at all those, but you know the women think about it.
I'm just thinking, I've heard a lot of those women.
I don't understand that.
Yeah.
She's younger.
What?
She's younger than that when she's in her late 20s or early 30s.
Oh, well, I don't get that.
She's got 40 years old.
Hello.
Yeah.
Hello, Connie.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, I see.
My wheelie.
Yeah, okay.
This is good, he's got the feeling.
He's got the power, he'd like to do it.
He would like to do it.
It's a question of money, well, God, we can arrange.
Well, you know, loans are hard, but hell, that shouldn't be any problem.
Anybody that's going to have a job and pay $60,000 for the rest of his life, even these days, John, ain't bad, huh?
He'll still get his, pick up his senatorial pension.
It won't be a hell of a lot.
It'll be $10,000 a year.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Could I ask you one other thing?
Are we...
I wonder if we should just do the back thing.
Did you tell them not to look into bacon or salty bacon or how we do that?
Are they not checking her?
They said they were told they're not qualified.
Inevitable.
I'm just trying to think of the answers that we have when people say, well, why don't you check a woman out?
Yes, sir, all day.
When I say what we want, I mean, I don't want them just taking a call.
They're going to hear about Rattles.
I mean, I don't want to say this in no way, but I don't want to say not all of them.
That's what they're going to do.
We're going to have to put it on them.
Yeah, right.
Right.
But the bar, it's just big bra showers.
They're going to be, they're a stacked jury.
They're going to take, you know, let them take the wrath of the woman.
That occurred to me.
Is there any way that we have any place that we can push a woman up to a certain court at the same time we do this?
I must say, but supposedly we went in the way of the New York, you know, I mean, build a mile and toss a woman in there.
The idea that we're sort of preparing one for, you see what I'm getting at, John?
I don't, I think the idea that all this whole movement about women having been raised, we've got to indicate that we sure have that under consideration.
It's not never.
How about here in Washington, you could build these, wouldn't you?
Do we have a role in this, sir?
Well, we could put Sophie Bain in there, couldn't we?
One of those bastards is going to retire and die, isn't he?
I think the thing still appeals to me very much.
I mean, not now, I see the point.
But how about just having your eye on her, keeping her, I mean, I don't know, keep your nose clean and be conservative as hell, you know, and she can go out where God is.
Will you do that?
No, I, what is it?
Well, I'm not talking about that in four years, but I mean, one court, you know, on the street, did a trial, or
Why don't you put her on the Federal District Court?
Can you do that?
Here.
I mean, I'd put her up there pretty fast.
I mean, I don't have any other money, John.
That's the point.
You know, there's certainly women that are on courts, and I don't accept no room.
When will that, when will that come?
Okay, you're leaving to go to Philadelphia, and you'll be gone about a week early.
And first, let's see if you have a license at the moment.
Do you think Baker is considered?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now I'm going to move on to Atlanta.
I'm not under any circumstances going to submit it to the law.
I mean, I'm just, he's just going to go, okay.
And it's not going to pop, right?
And we just can't be bothered.
Okay, John.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, we can simply say it because of his being a senator and all that kind of thing.
They've got Powell, the former president of the ABA, you know, he's a fighter, isn't he?
Yeah, we cannot have that.
Okay.

Also recorded on October 20, 1971

  • 011-156 9:05 AM · 44 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Frederic V. Malek, Alexander P. Butterfield, and the White House operator talked on the telephone from 9:05 am to 9:19 am.
  • 597-001 9:05 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:05 am and 9:17 am.
  • 011-157 9:19 AM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell talked on the telephone from 9:19 am to 9:25 am.
  • 011-158 9:25 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:25 am and 10:23 am.
  • 597-003 9:28 AM · 2 hr 41 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, Bryce N. Harlow, Ronald L. Ziegler, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, unknown person(s), Stephen B. Bull, and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:28 am to 12:20 pm.
  • 011-159 10:23 AM · 12 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Bryce N. Harlow talked on the telephone from 10:23 am to 10:35 am.
  • 011-160 10:35 AM · 18 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:35 am and 2:23 pm.
  • 011-161 10:35 AM · 4 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:35 am and 2:23 pm.

All 81 conversations from October 20, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 597-002, October 20, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/597-002 (accessed November 12, 2026).