Nixon, Haldeman & Colson on United Nations and Taiwan

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Not true.

You're the most...

Yes, sir.

Well, now I understand what you're saying.

Well, yeah.

Good.

I think it all had to do with grease.

The house eliminated 80 degrees or whatever it was and the Senate put it back in.

He seems to think he can go.

It's better than that.

Yeah.

Sir.

Well, this kind of, uh...

by this case, by accident, a little time, three and a half.

It's good to take care of shawls, take care of, uh, uh, girl.

We've got to get people on us.

We've got to get young names.

They are more important, Bob, than other people that I normally schedule.

We have to bring them back.

We've got to schedule.

The channel we've got to do is not as important as the channel.

And what's that people?

Well, because they can go out and multiply.

That's right.

They've got to get some background.

They can go out and do some accounting with other people.

We're just trying to build some labor unions at the moment so we can ship some wheat to the dam.

I understand that there's a sea merchant, a sea bird, and a dam to maritime economies.

Well, it's got to be done.

Or they're going to be in a hell of a spot.

Well, they're willing to do some business with us.

Oh, what do you mean?

I've talked to them this afternoon.

If we can resolve it, it'll open the floodgates for future shipments.

It'd be nice not to get into a fight if we could.

I agree.

If we could do it.

I agree.

We're getting ready to pull that off.

We found the attorneys and we put them coming in this weekend to see if we can... All of a sudden, we're holding our own in the Senate today.

I didn't hear that.

I was trying to remember what they were.

They restored, what, had the House cut Greek aid?

Oh, they put a prohibition in.

Okay, the Senate removed it.

Removed it?

Yeah.

And they did something else.

Something else we were...

It's been a long time since we've lost something.

I can't wait.

There's some other conservative movement, right?

They did several conservative, you know, sort of startlingly conservative, uh, moves today.

Well, I mean, the one thing that I already got out is this thing in Scots.

The Scots think that some of this, uh, Arab countries, this, this, this conservative movement is evangelicalism.

Hmm.

I don't know if you get that or not.

What's that?

I don't mind.

There's no idol.

If you see Israel, it was a violation on March 6th and 7th.

So, turn around.

I don't know.

Call on my mom.

Well, I talked to Bush about it.

Bush is on this weekend.

He's on one of the Sunday shows issues.

He's on Buckley's fire.

He's on campus tonight debating Muskie.

I wonder if he wanted to come to Buckley.

Well, he can say he's been told this.

Bush has been talking about this.

He thinks that Israel's next to go.

That was his phrase.

They already are.

They might be expelled.

Harris, Lou Harris today when I was talking to

raise that point to the terrible side.

You put the Arab countries, and the Blacks, and the Communist bloc, and that's it.

And the Communist bloc, and you, Daniel, got nothing to throw them out.

On a simple vote, a simple majority vote for anything you consider, and all you got on their side would be Europe would stay with them, we'd stay with them, and Latin America, huh?

A couple of leading countries, South Carolina and America.

Scott used that line, or did he?

Yeah, Scott used it.

I think I'll get George to use it, because he talked about it, and it's beginning to pick up a little bit.

Lou Harris said that his son has been going off the hook in the simplicity line.

Because of that call?

Because of the call, which played very big everywhere, then played here today, and

give it as big a play as anybody.

It's a curious thing that the Washington Post doesn't play at all.

They did play the second day.

They played it today.

It's a smaller column, but they ran it.

They ran it.

It's caused a hell of a lot of talk around here.

Newsweek is doing a story on it because they were calling everybody today asking for reactions of Democrats here.

So it's caused a lot of talk.

Democrats all should present.

Most of them want to push that line.

They're prepared to push it that far.

So the Democrats, the professionals, really want Husky because he's the safest candidate, right?

Yeah, he's the easiest for them to control.

Yeah, he's the easiest to control.

And least controversial.

Some of the professionals at Newsweek, across your interview, are candidates.

Candidates are stars.

Most of them are.

All of them are jumping on it, too.

Newsweek fellow said that he got under his own glee from Hubert Humphrey.

Just couldn't contain it.

And I don't know that he's got a quote for the record.

— 4 min 59 s with no transcribed speech —

I haven't talked to Plantinga yet about setting up that meeting.

But you know how, you give yourself, just tell him that you tried to get him in.

But I mean, you know the fellas as well, so you know.

He had three in the killer, I think, or five.

You think of all that, Burns is going to come up, and this is very unusual.

Oh, I think he'd be terrific.

He'd give a good update.

Just along those lines, the interest rates came out today, so in September they went up again, which is...

but the home mortgage interest rate.

Oh, they did?

Yes, sir.

Well, on the other hand, some bank dropped interest rate today.

The commercial banks are now coming down with the home mortgage market, which is what we saw.

I just mentioned this because this is his major idea.

The

He tightens up, the list goes up, but it goes in housing states.

You brought that, are you going to bring that to his attention?

Well, I've had Sapphire and Clonigan both talk to him, as you know.

I'll see that Sapphire gets this over to him this weekend.

When they go up, how much do you have?

Well, let's see, it goes up, it just goes up a little percentage at a time.

It's up now at 7.82, which is eight points higher than in August, where a point is at 9,000.

If it's eight one-hundredths, that slows down the housing market.

That's the thing.

The people on the street begin to see that, and they think there's liquidity problems.

Well, I think if he knows you're Washington, then he did.

He knows.

This is a good thing to get to, isn't it?

Yes.

Point out, the President noted this.

He knew that.

And he was wondering how this would pass the budget.

If I think it's better than Samuels, I have to do this because I'm an expert in Samuels.

I was thinking about, we certainly haven't had a very dull time in the last two or three weeks.

No, I disagree.

Go on.

You just sit and look at it.

We keep looking at the calendar, hoping we can keep the momentum.

It's great.

You know, is it true that you take things like the state business practice,

is always good for a line, and that silliness is gone.

But in terms of the UN, there's something to be said, as well as the Supreme Court, to have a concupiscence.

Sometimes it's good to have some concupiscence, rather than to be dull.

The worst thing in politics is to be dull.

The worst thing.

That's what's hitting my seat.

I think it's true.

The controversy is good as long as you position yourself the way you do with speed.

Being as active as you are.

Fighting the battle.

Fighting the fight.

As long as they aren't just kidding you, you're a squealer.

Well, that's sort of the difference, that it kind of, you can't find any place to kick.

Well, they tried in a way, but not very effectively.

They tried to kick on the court and got their target knocked out.

That's the big reason.

It's one thing.

It's going to be one that people are going to...

I mean, the Democrats ain't going to have great problems knowing how the hell we can't.

First of all, they want Taiwan in.

They don't really.

The New York Times was legendary.

They were always going to keep Taiwan until they went to the throne house.

So what do they want?

Well, they can do them.

But if they, but if the Democratic candidates will be on the bandwagon when they start defending the UN's conduct, right?

Wouldn't that never happen?

But the UN is against the United States.

I think Bush, though, what you said is very interesting.

How he said that some came up and apologized, you know, in his background, and they apologized to him for their conduct.

He made that point yesterday in the background, and it was carried pretty soon.

But

None of them have worked in it last night.

CBS.

The delegates had apologized to him.

And... For not voting.

Not the voting.

Not the voting, but for the comment.

And they were sorry.

They apologized for having put on such a blatantly anti-American, angry anti-American demonstration.

And he made that point very well.

He'll make it again on the TV shows.

We've armed him with...

stuff for Muskie tonight.

We got half the tickets in there.

Sam Buckley in that?

No, tonight he's on with Muskie on the cabin show.

But we got half the audience.

We got George Welbrey.

First advised him not to do it, and he said he really wanted to.

He did it damn well.

Yeah, he's good.

And that's the right way to debate the Muskie type people is with a captain first of all.

And George has an enthusiasm.

And he loves it.

He'll look good vis-a-vis Muskie.

He'll sound good.

He'll know what he's talking about, unless he won't.

Well, Muskie will know, but it's not as if he knows.

George will come off well.

It's a very attractive following.

He's appealing to people like George.

We don't have the format.

I don't know whether they're going one after the other.

We're sitting together at the same time.

Didn't you say that they were dropping him?

Yes, sir.

They haven't renewed his contract, and apparently they aren't going to.

He's fighting now to get it renewed, but as of the first of the year, I can say it's going to be a loss.

Of course, I mean, all those guys, they're lost for dropping all their own companies.

All right, well, I'm going to replace him with someone that's just as bad or worse.

They all play to the limit.

Why all of those guys play to that far-flat audience if one of them had come on and played for, you know, like, well, frankly, they don't have close-barber property, but just to play in the locker room.

Crystal's piece in Fortune is the best-written analysis of media bias that I've seen.

That's on the Evernote?

Yes.

And he really makes the point that they don't think they're biased.

Because they're on the left.

And they're people and they're not on the right.

If you're taking the liberal line, that's like being Christian.

You're a Christian and you're not biased because you think that non-Christians are going to hell.

That's your belief.

And really, these people out here, that's why their double standard is so unbelievably sanctimonious and wrong.

Those bachelors, any liberal would be drunk and...

They never say a word.

From their standpoint, that can't be a sin.

But if the other side does it, it automatically is.

But he makes that point very effectively.

We'll get several thousand re-prints of that for a fortune.

Make good use of it.

Beautiful, that piece.

You read it, then you write.

Oh, it's beautiful.

I read the new songs, though.

I figured it would be less like...

become personally involved in this, the better.

I must stay away from it, you know.

I know how bad guys' passions are, but I never will let them.

I never will let them.

Let them feel any of my own sentiments toward them.

It's what it sails on.

That's what they need.

Right?

Yes, sir.

I had a pressure of just...

They don't know what to know.

Is that true?

It sure is.

They just don't pay attention to it.

Some of them have a grudging admiration right now for the way you're handling things.

They're not happy about it, but it's kind of a professional admiration.

And you detect that in some of the columns that they write.

The real way out, guys, is you're just going up the walls.

You've taken all the issues away.

You've got a stampede going as far as they can see.

They'll find some issues.

Heaven to know that.

We've got some letters in there.

Yes, sir.

I get to do that.

I heard it.

Bryce Harlow has also agreed to write a rebuttal to it.

We'll see what he can come up with, but he... You don't like this?

Well, that's worth a try.

I don't think Bryce has got enough.

He wouldn't have a part in it, you know.

I think he'd be late, but he isn't.

I don't think he would.

I think he'd be cute.

He isn't going to be willing to take them on.

But not Nike enough.

You only got to...

If you can't, you can do that.

You can do it.

It's brutal.

But we're dragging it for grace.

You know, I talked about it last night.

He said he'd be willing to do it.

Yeah.

Anyway, I don't know.

I don't know if it's worth it.

What do you think about the damn thing?

Oh, probably yes.

No.

No, the only good shot they got was the Today show.

Well, now that doesn't have a very big audience.

But their newsletter, they have a private newsletter, which they don't publish.

And I think it's marvelous that they write this week.

We find Democratic morale and hopes for 72 in a lower level now than at any time since the Nixon honeymoon days of 69.

On recent reporting trips to Illinois and Ohio, we found the party regulars were despondent, and had just about conceded the 1972 election in Mexico.

We feel this pessimism is not justified by the facts and stems from these causes.

The feeling presidential candidates on the Democratic side is depressing everyone.

There is increasing resignation to the inevitability of musty but little enthusiasm.

Their whole newsletter is written in the same sort of directly depressed style.

Yeah, when they say that the people are depressed, they're really justified.

They shouldn't be.

Well, but they're depressed when you read the style of which they write.

They're just depressed as hell in this state.

Because you're right, it's amusing.

Amusing.

I'd hate to give us any points, because... Well, they're probably, I guess, what the hell.

Right off, you have any doubts on that story?

No.

I agree.

There's a deadline for us in a little bit.

that's dirty enough on somebody else that would stir a little interest in the column.

They're very interested in building the column.

Sure, but they're also ideologues.

Oh, sure.

And they're, especially Novak, is totally negative.

He's a leftist.

He alleges to be the Republican.

Bullshit.

He does that for a purpose.

That's it.

He's been talking about running for the Republican nomination.

Give us another Matthias.

God, yes.

And Matthias will look like a total loyalist.

Well, maybe he's been out in the good fresh air in the West and it's seen the light.

If you like Percy, basically, more than Matthias, Huntley would want to keep his credentials a little bit.

Be part of the Washington establishment.

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

I personally think that we ought to rank him up second, you know.

I mean, let some bircher run against you.

You can already win the election, of course, but Huntley is just unbelievable.

Really?

He's an insufferable person.

A white guy sent a letter from background in the day asking, and somebody here he wanted to have a White House tour set up for or something.

He said something about it must be a fascinating life there and all that.

He said, give my regards to my young former opponent.

He's doing a great job.

Is Reagan happy after the statement you made on the U.S.?

He's cooled off.

No, I mean, Reagan basically deep down is about us.

It's a purge, a purge for man.

And feels we should get out of the U.S.

He really does, and I respect that view.

I mean, if you're on the outside, it might be irresponsible.

Why not?

You can mail it to the event.

But you can't do that.

See, and I told him that.

From his viewpoint, you can.

Okay.

From his viewpoint, you can.

You don't have to worry about it being a matter of state.

You can, right?

That's right.

So you get out, and you haven't got any good advice with which to maybe settle that physical thing.

But he doesn't worry about how you settle that.

He just worries about the principle of supporting that terrible organization.

Terrible people.

Oh, God, he was livid.

Well, he must have been happy with what you said.

Oh, yes, yes.

But he was livid.

And the thing he was livid about was not the bullet.

The conduct.

That was the right thought.

You didn't talk about it.

I didn't talk about it.

Oh, Jesus.

You can imagine his description.

He saw it on TV.

That's right.

He watches TV.

He saw it live.

I didn't see it.

I do want you to show me that.

I called his office.

Did you see it, Bob?

No.

If you ought to go see it.

I listened to Wolfstein's description of it.

He was there.

How did it go on TV?

Have you seen it on TV?

Oh, I've seen it on TV.

I've seen it and I've had it re-read.

The first time I saw it was Tuesday night.

And it doesn't look any better, as you see, at the third floor.

And what do they do?

Well, they're running up and down the aisles.

There's one whole row of delegates who are jumping up and down in unison, waving their hands, bouncing out of there.

Most of them are black.

There were two that came circling down in front of Bush's area and were doing what looked like a wild kind of a dance, arms and legs waving.

And there was then that communist, the communist foot stamping in unison and clapping in unison.

You know, they were, that steady beating, quite, not applause, but, you know, just the... Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Right, right.

And then every now and then, somebody would get up out of the seat, wave their hands.

You know, you could just tell they were saying, we finally showed you the United States.

We finally gave you...

It was a bad thing.

Today's show had about 12 minutes of it on Tuesday morning.

Did they say that in the final show of the United States?

No, but that's the impression you got when you watched it.

You could tell that they were perfectly obvious what they were rejoicing at.

They really sucked it to it.

Even though it wasn't possible?

Yeah.

It won't go that way.

Looking at the type of delegates that were made,

He did come close in with the camera.

He said, my God, we're taking this from these people.

Would upset a hell of a lot of people.

Can you get the thing out?

Get it run now?

Get it run now.

Sure.

Yeah.

We ought to see it.

See if we can get it.

Get it.

He's free.

Wait a minute.

Wait.

Come on.

Get it right now.

Just put it.

Push it down.

See if you can see it.

Ten minutes.

Can you run the ten minute version?

It's, uh, yes sir.

Or is it longer than that?

Well, the station has, has cooked it down to about 12,000.

We can get around that.

It'll take probably a few minutes to get it set up.

Well, we can run it in the morning.

Okay.

He picks up about Mr. President.

I said, it's Bob.

He says, thank you, Mr. President.

When he hangs up, he says, does he want to sit?

He said, yeah, just a couple minutes.

All right, fine.

I may not sit.

I've heard so much about it.

Yeah, it would be interesting to take a look at it.

Excuse me, get the hell out of that meeting.

I think that was the thing.

He did, he told them, but probably shouldn't.

Right?

I mean, they did the right thing.

Thank God they didn't.

They're very bad.

They have a business and they make a fuss out of it.

That would also tend to downgrade your degree because it would make it look like crowds turn out for anybody.

Sure.

They did turn out, of course they set up all the police security and stuff, but they were doing that as a demonstration, sort of a dry run thing.

Yeah.

I mean, the roads cleared and all that sort of business.

But they are sheer security, not just reading that.

I just hope they keep asking about the security of the press and how do we know they won't do something.

Well, yeah, just coming through with the security of the press.

Get it ready to run up if you want it.

Fine.

Get it in your bird system.

We've got a television in front of the house.

It's not supposed to run at my house.

I'll look at it a little while.

Oh, I know.

You know, Roger said he hadn't seen it.

Roger said he hadn't seen it.

He didn't see it.

No.

He was out at Peter Finley's for dinner.

And he just did it like I did it on the radio.

Apparently the whole thing was run live on New York Station.

And that had a lot of people in New York very upset.

A lot of people had stayed up to watch the vote.

It was here.

But they didn't tune into it here until after the voting was over.

I see.

Because that's apparently what Reagan saw.

Because he saw it that night.

He saw it that night, right.

He saw the President after midnight.

That's right.

That would have, yeah.

Do you know that Birch is spoken about, you know?

Yes.

Yes, the U.S. out of the United Nations.

The United Nations out of the United States.

Out of the U.S.

It's pretty good.

Yeah.

It was that, and it beat your warning.

Now they don't have to beat your warning anymore.

God, it's hard to realize I had those big billboards.

There was a big American flag in Earl Warren, and it teached Earl Warren to chop down.

That was only four years ago.

Nine years ago, when I started to gather, it was terrible.

I was in the middle of the net, and I didn't, of course, I stood up to warn him.

And Dulles never gets to be an advisor.

Everybody was a traitor then.

Eisenhower, sure.

They had the theory that Eisenhower was a communist.

Dedicated consciousness to the communist conspiracy.

President would go there to be some old lady in the audience.

Why aren't you a member of the Council on Foreign Relations?

That's right.

Everybody's.

Or doctors.

There's so many.

You know, little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I must say, for our collection, it's no damn good.

But it's not a communist front, a communist front.

They were convinced it was.

And you tell them General MacArthur was on the board, and Rupert Hoover was a founding member, I must say, it was a better account because the conduct of that council was not in reassurance.

I have to let it out now.

Right.

I agree.

It hasn't been at all.

And they saw it as a sinister...

Cleon Skousen, one of those guys that you turn around and he says, oh yeah, oh did you know that Reagan, he's written another book and Reagan brought it up and mentioned it to Kissinger the last time.

Skousen has?

Yeah, he says, I don't know about this, but he seems to, and Kissinger, I know, is small because I think Skousen is anti-Semitic.

Oh, yeah.

He wrote a terrific book on the Jewish conspiracy.

They're getting anti-Semitic literature out of Kissinger now.

The Kissinger and Hickson administration.

It goes on to tell all the devious spots.

Scurrilous thing that Henry Cashin brought back from his Navy League dinner.

You know, they range at that dinner from all the way to the far right to the medium right.

I know.

And it'll get very medium.

Not very medium.

Well, that's your friend who was at that one with King over to Ireland and walked into the dental cracks.

Bergen?

Yeah, Bergen.

Yeah, he's better.

He's one of the more medium ones.

But they, I don't know.

They're sitting quiet as they behave very well.

It's kind of amazing because that is why.

Maybe he wants to give, maybe his district is such that he just feels he can't risk it, you know?

Mr. Pence doesn't give a damn.

No, he doesn't.

He just tears out at actors all the time, but we expected that.

Well, that's his stock to trade, though.

And Bristol's no longer in the Burger Society.

That's still there, isn't it, sir?

I see nothing.

I mean, nothing to do much, that's all.

He doesn't mean very much.

Votes are on national security.

Oh.

Probably votes with us a hell of a lot more.

Basically, he votes for almost everything.

He votes against us on the stuff we're discussing.

I don't know.

Chinese foreign minister.

Oh, that's who I saw as I came in.

Yeah, that.

Oh, was the foreign minister there too?

Yeah.

I think he was pleased to see you.

I told him it's the most distasteful thing that's happened since I came here.

There are no people who deserved it less.

And it's that no one could have more affection, which is true.

I mean, I've said this when I didn't mean it to people, but there's

No, no, but these are lovely people.

I'm sorry, I didn't recognize him.

I came through the office he was waiting on for a withholding to see him, to just call him.

Although I told him, let's go through the list of these countries and name one country now.

Go through the list of those that were affected by the first speaking trip.

And he said, no, no, he said, he says, no, that's no thanks to God.

We, in our strategy, we should have concentrated on some of these, but just bought something like Botswana.

That's right.

We had bought, we just didn't get the... And Guyana.

You know, we did everything we could, now that I think back on it.

Well, we didn't run it out of theater anyway, but we did everything we could by normal diplomatic methods.

But some of these aged in Africa, don't give a damn about normal detectives, although if you can, the military would be put under pressure to stand in here.

That guy is vile.

And Botswana...

I didn't really, I saw them tonight.

I didn't recognize them.

Are they still here?

Are they gone?

They're gone.

I don't think I should see them anymore.

I told them that we'd get Ziegler next week, get somebody to ask a question if the defense commitment's still intact.

I think it's all right for Ziegler to say yes, because we don't want to have Peking have any misunderstanding.

I've said this in Peking, so there's no misunderstanding.

You're right.

Yes, sir.

It was in the transcript.

It didn't get picked up.

But it's in there.

That's strange.

Well, it had to be.

Well, if you'd have wanted, I'd have come and seen it.

I don't see what it would do, Mr. President.

Well, they're old friends.

I'd like to walk by the old ones.

Well, I didn't know you had... Well, I saw it, and I didn't recognize it.

See, I didn't know you were going through this.

You're fine, Pete.

I told him that Ra just killed himself, that you called the king of Morocco, the president of Mexico, the prime minister of Italy, that you wrote letters to Ireland and Netherlands, to Iran.

Altogether, you intervened with 12 countries that we went, appealed to Israel and did get their vote.

And we went to the British, because those bastards really put it to us.

That's OK. Quick, what's it?

What's here?

What's it?

Thank you.

Thank you all so much for your time.

I'm afraid we're getting late.

The cops are taking care of us.

It's about two minutes.

First of all, who's in there?

Who's over at the house last night?

I don't know.

What?

I don't know.

Nixon, Haldeman & Colson on United Nations and Taiwan

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Nixon, Haldeman & Colson on United Nations and Taiwan

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Also recorded on October 29, 1971

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