Nixon, Kissinger & Bull on Foreign Aid and United Nations Taiwan Vote

2:23:47You know what I mean?
2:23:49Well, he's, he's, of course, he don't mind, he's getting better.
2:23:53He's totally irresponsible.
2:23:55You can't be, you can't on Tuesday say, well, we shouldn't worry too much about Taiwan being out, and then on Friday say, well, let's buy a kiss or go to China, and all that bullshit.
2:24:06Okay.
2:24:06Okay, sir.
2:24:07Good luck.
2:24:22Yes, sir.
2:24:57I'm sorry, I gave you the wrong information.
2:24:59I'm prepared for...
2:25:00I have a vaccine, sir.
2:25:01I'm prepared for... What, sir?
2:25:04Must be... Absinthe, ma'am.
2:25:06Must be what, sir?
2:25:12The absinthe.
2:25:13That's fine.
2:25:14It's a verb, isn't it?
2:25:15Must be absinthe.
2:25:17Right.
2:25:22Thank you.
2:25:25I've talked to...
2:25:45Well, I think it has a way of splitting the Democrats.
2:25:51This is one in which even Harriman has to do something.
2:25:57They won't play.
2:26:15I don't see what they can do except to put you.
2:26:23I don't think we ought to call them in.
2:26:26In a crisis like that, we don't have a vote right now.
2:26:29We've got to get a new program.
2:26:34I don't see what we can do.
2:26:53I thought we can get them to come out for a foreign aid program.
2:27:06Sure, I don't know.
2:27:09Or to come out for a foreign aid program, but you see...
2:27:16What does that do in terms of, I can't, we've got to get a beacon on the, so that there's something specific.
2:27:23That's something that's something we should get something.
2:27:33Well, we could get different people this time.
2:27:35We could get, for example, I think Harriman would,
2:27:39My view is not to do it in terms of falling into the White House, that kind of thing, but that's the way to do it this time.
2:27:46The way to do it is to get rid of supporters.
2:28:07I mean, in committing individual bitches or something of that sort, you can't just, you just can't repeat the same thing.
2:28:13It's a little bit of a major smack of a, you know, it's not quite the way to be at it PR-wise.
2:28:18And also for the reason that we don't have to come in and say, well, we need to get a question before we make that decision.
2:28:26So it's a lot, it's a lot for our name.
2:28:28Now, how do you look at it?
2:28:30See, before you maybe call, you look at the train of thought, it's a city of hope, let's try it out.
2:28:35And we sent people down to the Senate to work on various senators on that vote.
2:28:39In fact, I bet with something here, we do not have a hard vote in principle.
2:28:46Like, it's got to be able to get together and say where 14 went.
2:28:49But would you mind if I called people like George Paul?
2:28:52Oh, that's fine.
2:28:54That's fine.
2:28:54I didn't need to call senators, congressmen, leaders, editors, press.
2:29:00Hell, you know, I said there's eight individuals in this stand.
2:29:04Yeah, but they'd split that out.
2:29:06I'll leave them.
2:29:07I mean, that's what I'll do.
2:29:08I will leave them.
2:29:10I will never sign a traditional law.
2:29:12Never.
2:29:13Never.
2:29:14I think you'd be done and go, ho, I won't sign 8 Bridge, I won't sign 8 for Cambodia, I'll leave it there.
2:29:19Hell, we're not going to have it.
2:29:21They've all got to go together now.
2:29:22They're not going to play that kind of a game.
2:29:25And they're going to be told that's a straight out thing.
2:29:28I've already told them, right, that if one is about 8 Bridge, they're not going to see how we do it.
2:29:32We're going to play a hard line.
2:29:33We're going to get some of these people.
2:29:36We're going to have to hold them.
2:29:38We're going to have to hold them.
2:29:45See, they're getting at various lengths here, people that want to vote against the United Nations.
2:29:54Actually, we can expect that.
2:29:55But as you said this morning, those 15 Republicans, 12 of them would have been against it anyway.
2:30:01They always are.
2:30:02And they've never voted for foreigners.
2:30:04People like that.
2:30:08That's...
2:30:10But we only got eight Democratic votes for the day, haven't we?
2:30:13I mean,
2:30:15Dominic would be against it.
2:30:16Fannin would be against it.
2:30:18Fannin.
2:30:19Go ahead.
2:30:20Gurney.
2:30:20Against him.
2:30:22Hansen.
2:30:23Against him.
2:30:24Well, Hatfield.
2:30:25Hatfield, yeah.
2:30:26He is now.
2:30:26He's a dove.
2:30:28He's a dove.
2:30:29Jordan.
2:30:30Against him.
2:30:31Roth.
2:30:33Roth?
2:30:33Yeah.
2:30:34Yeah.
2:30:35Probably.
2:30:35Zach Spade.
2:30:37Zach Spade, he's just a dove.
2:30:38Yeah.
2:30:39Smith.
2:30:40Yeah.
2:30:41Steve.
2:30:41Margaret Smith.
2:30:42Yeah.
2:30:42Stevens is running.
2:30:44Smith is running.
2:30:46Weicker, and Young.
2:30:50Those were the Republicans.
2:30:51Young is always against it.
2:30:54Brock was against it.
2:31:18He's basically taking the same line.
2:31:25What about the 8 Democrats?
2:31:29That's the whole point.
2:31:30There were only 8, 4.
2:31:32There were 26 Democrats against.
2:31:35Allen, Bay, Benson, Bible, Burdick, the two birds, Cannon.
2:31:43These are against?
2:31:44Again, Childs, Church, Cranston, Eastland, Irwin, Fulbright.
2:32:02Your son Dennis was against it.
2:32:05Dennis, I can understand that.
2:32:09Well.
2:32:12He may have been just a fucking general.
2:32:14Not against Russia.
2:32:17Oh, no.
2:32:18Just against the...
2:32:20The tempers are shorter than the Olympics.
2:32:29That's good enough.
2:32:31There were more Republicans for the Democrats.
2:32:35Oh, sure.
2:32:35That's the word.
2:32:37Eighteen Republicans or more.
2:32:42That's right.
2:32:49I have no objection, whatever.
2:32:51I think it's fine if you can get some of these people stirred up to come out if they really will.
2:32:57I can't emphasize too strongly.
2:32:59In a partisan political year, they're going to play partisan politics.
2:33:04They really are.
2:33:06They know what they're doing.
2:33:09They like to make it difficult.
2:33:14Don't expect that's the thing.
2:33:16You get closer to an election.
2:33:21So when you do it on the border, you've got some pipeline.
2:33:25But it would knock out 500 million for Vietnam.
2:33:30Economic aid would knock out, would finish Cambodia because all of that is in the foreign aid frontiers.
2:33:40We can only get us to January, can't we?
2:33:41I think so, yeah.
2:33:42The next session, I think so, yeah.
2:34:14No, you have a totally irresponsible group, there is no question.
2:34:19Yet, we won all the individual votes.
2:34:22That's what's so amazing.
2:34:23That's why, I don't know, I am certain that the boys, which I regret, they sort of dropped the ball and the lock, and both were crying for faith or something.
2:34:33Everybody got back.
2:34:36There must have been a way that all this was coming, you know what I mean?
2:34:40But I was talking to them on Thursday morning,
2:34:45Everyone was worried about the amendment, but they thought that if they could beat the amendment, that they were in good shape, because basically the 41 votes against are something like the 44 votes that were for Cooper Church.
2:35:02But that one we beat by 47 to 44.
2:35:04Yeah.
2:35:04Yeah.
2:35:04Yeah.
2:35:44Well, that was their line before.
2:35:52That's what their accident line was before.
2:35:57Yeah.
2:36:13It was the Kennedy line.
2:36:14This was a foolish policy, right?
2:36:16Oh, yes.
2:36:17It was inconsistent with our time initiative.
2:36:19So let me say that it washes out in terms of the initiative itself.
2:36:22And that overwhelms it all.
2:36:24It will overwrite it all in the end.
2:36:26Never be concerned about the day-to-day battles.
2:36:32These people are fly-snaking and so forth.
2:36:41They cannot destroy me.
2:36:44It's too big.
2:36:50Oh, no question.
2:36:53It's too big, too big.
2:36:58I'll tell you one thing.
2:37:02We cannot separate anything out.
2:37:04We do.
2:37:04You see, the only way to do it, you have various interests that will support various things.
2:37:10And he ever said, in order for the whole bill to float, you've got to have the 80-year-old in it.
2:37:14That's the way you get Javits, for example, and presidential candidates.
2:37:18But I cannot, cannot possibly vote against that if it takes you down.
2:37:21That's why you've got to get the race lobby to work on these people, not say, God damn it, because I'm just cold-hearted.
2:37:30And if they won't get a bill, I'm not going to sign one for them at all.
2:37:34How?
2:37:36Because they're not going to have a lot to spend it on right now, so they're not going to have all that change.
2:37:40It's all right, because I think I'd have a plan.
2:37:41It's all right.
2:37:42Same as everybody else.
2:37:43I told Angeloski to make a copy of this for you, and one for him.
2:37:57The main purpose was I spent most of the time basically on very cold, dirty, awkward art.
2:38:08They feared what the Soviets would do to the smaller countries.
2:38:13We were not.
2:38:13Well, that was a very weird way to read it.
2:38:15It's almost a...
2:38:15I said, look, we've been talking about all these nice things, but let me talk frankly to you, man to man.
2:38:24You're a tough guy, so am I. I said, this is what I agree with.
2:38:31And, you know, I also dropped it.
2:38:31I dropped it on the alarm, which is extremely tough.
2:38:35I said, leave me there for the last.
2:38:36I thought for a second, what are you going to do?
2:38:39I said, I just don't want you to be surprised.
2:38:45I said, by the end of November, I said, by Christmas, I said, I'll have to take other action.
2:38:56I said, it won't be against Laos.
2:38:58It won't be against Cambodia.
2:38:59I went over the whole thing, why I did Cambodia, and that I had warned Chester, or Chester, why we had Laos, and I had warned Jamaica, who were going to do it.
2:39:08And I said, now, this time, I said, it will be against our willpower.
2:39:14I said, I don't want you to be surprised.
2:39:19So, just let it lay there.
2:39:20Because that's what we have to do.
2:39:22That's what we have to do.
2:39:23I said, you make that impression that we have no option except to withdraw.
2:39:29I said, that's not true.
2:39:35What did he say?
2:39:36Did he say anything?
2:39:38No shit.
2:39:40He said, no.
2:39:41He said, I realize that you checked it out.
2:39:45It shows that you're weak.
2:39:48You got through to it pretty damn good.
2:39:49Oh, even if you didn't, you should go out and do it for others.
2:39:52They didn't want to comment.
2:39:53It's got to be just the participation of everybody in the government.
2:39:58I said, well, we made an offer to allow that to come on.
2:40:04That's all I've got.
2:40:05I said, well, the way I put it, he will get through.
2:40:07I said, no, I should do it.
2:40:08I said, I'm afraid.
2:40:09I said, you're going to talk to many world leaders.
2:40:12I said, they will ask you about dangers, and I've asked you about Russia, people that I don't know.
2:40:19I said, I don't want any of them to be under any dangerous miscalculation.
2:40:23I said, I am a drawing of Vietnam.
2:40:24We have an excellent doctorate.
2:40:26We are going to China.
2:40:29We are going to the Soviet Union.
2:40:30I said, I want you to know something.
2:40:33I'm going to tell you a little about my background.
2:40:35I know yours.
2:40:36I said, uh,
2:40:38You're a man of peace, but you were a man of war.
2:40:41You were a strong man, a tough man.
2:40:43I said, I came off the hard way also.
2:40:45I said, I'm a man of peace.
2:40:47But I said, I am not one who will take peace in any price.
2:40:53And through the defense drill and the rest of it, I said, I just want to clearly understand that as far as the United States, unless we get an arms limitation, then I will have to make a decision for the United States to go over and finish my good and honest arms.
2:41:08Go ahead.
2:41:09Tremendous.
2:41:10All of this is going straight back to the Russians.
2:41:13Well, you didn't see it.
2:41:13Mr. Gavrilovsky got a message in English.
2:41:18But it was a very tough talk.
2:41:19I mean, I don't mean, not from him, but I just thought, I guess, that I was wanting to know exactly who we're up against.
2:41:29But also, the threat there is now, we've laid it out again, and on the day of the meeting, excuse me, Mr. President, I'm just going to confirm that you did get into one of these parties at 12.30.
2:41:38Yeah.
2:41:39Would you like to, Manuela, give me your lunch here, or?
2:41:42No.
2:41:42No, I wouldn't.
2:41:43All right.
2:41:48Thank you.
2:41:49No, it was very, very good talk.
2:41:52I mean, I just used it for a monologue, strength talks.
2:41:57And I, it was particularly effective.
2:42:00I talked to you last night, and I said, you know, I want you to tell you where we're working in the whole world.
2:42:08To the retreat of the week being lost in 19-M.
2:42:11I said, it's late.
2:42:11In the summer of August of 1969, I approached Jessica and we were making an offer.
2:42:19I said, if that offer is not accepted, then I said, we will have to act.
2:42:22I said, we waited, we waited.
2:42:25They did not even discuss it.
2:42:27And we went into camp, but even our characters came down the water.
2:42:31I said, now, I said, I'm not asking you to comment on whether we should have gone in, but I said, that's why we did it.
2:42:37I said, Danny, in October of last year, we made another offer.
2:42:40If you remember, on October 7th, when he was here, I told him that we had made this offer.
2:42:46And I said, if it was not accepted, we'd have to hang, and we went to the office.
2:42:49And I said, now our intention is to sell it in a week.
2:42:53I said, now they've got 400 prisoners.
2:42:57I said, I will take any risk, at any cost, to get those prisoners back.
2:43:02Not against us.
2:43:03Not against me, I believe.
2:43:05But this time it's our idea.
2:43:09I said, I don't want you to be surprised.
2:43:13It's going to be sad.
2:43:14It's going to be sad.
2:43:16Because the way I think about it, I think we're going to have to move the blockade route there.
2:43:20I think that's probably better than just bombing again.
2:43:27I think that bombing is something you do every day that people can say you're killing.
2:43:33Well, we blockaded, and then cut the railroad with bonds, correct?
2:43:36Yes.
2:43:36I guess it was blockades on the bench, and... That will get you into trouble with the Russians, but on the other hand, it gives the Russians a reason to put this... Well, Tito went up to the drill, and he says, I think the Russians can't help you in this, in fact.
2:43:51I got through with my drill.
2:43:52I said, well, I don't know.
2:43:54I said, maybe they should.
2:43:57I said, maybe they are the Chinese.
2:43:59He said, yes.
2:44:00But it's obvious that he is...
2:44:03When we got through with it, he doesn't think that we have no choice but just to get out.
2:44:12And know that he wants you to, because if you don't secure it, it depends.
2:44:16Life over the weak United States would be a very great danger to the peace of the world.
2:44:21I said strong United States is essential.
2:44:24In fact, this whole thing should be read, unfortunately, not because I got that, but because I didn't leave it on at the time.
2:44:34It ought to be read by people who want to know what the hell my name is, where I live, what the doctor was, and all this crap.
2:44:42We go down before these agencies, before the committees, and say, well, the president, they say...
2:44:48They don't understand that yesterday the Moroccan ambassador called on state about the reports that you were displeased.
2:44:57They had a report that you had called them international bandits.
2:45:00I didn't.
2:45:09So Newsom called up what he should say.
2:45:12He said he was going to deny it totally and say we weren't going to penalize him.
2:45:16I said, no, you can tell them it is not right.
2:45:19The president never called them international blackmailers, that's what they said.
2:45:23On the other hand, you have to know that the president is extremely displeased by the UN vote after having made a call to Morocco.
2:45:34I think it is wrong on the UN vote for us to act as if this were a sporting contest in which you win a few and lose a few.
2:45:40When a sovereign country votes against you, it's got to take the consequences.
2:45:45And I'm getting that list together, and I think we should, every single goddamn one of them.
2:45:49Oh sure, we're getting, I know this is a concern, we're getting criticized.
2:45:53Are we going to take it on?
2:45:54Of course we are.
2:45:57You shouldn't say it.
2:45:58Don't say it, but do it.
2:46:00And don't say you're not going to.
2:46:02That's exactly my point.
2:46:04Oh, one other thing.
2:46:05Henry, I want you to do something now.
2:46:08Now this is something that can be done.
2:46:10I changed the call.
2:46:11I want to direct you to prepare.
2:46:13Give me the money.
2:46:15Whereby I delegate to the Vice President the presentation of the diplomatic credentials.
2:46:21I am never going to be in the position again of having these goddamn black bastards come in here with their damn investments.
2:46:28I'm not going to give you five minutes of my time.
2:46:31You understand?
2:46:32Now...
2:46:32The way I will compensate for that with the good countries, is I will have them, after they've presented their credentials, I'll have them come in, you know, from 10 minute chat, into this office.
2:46:43But now there's no reason for me to sit over there and do that anymore, okay?
2:46:48It can't be done.
2:46:49You work it out.
2:46:50I allocate to the Vice President the presentation of diplomatic credentials from now on.
2:46:53Fair enough?
2:46:55Fair enough.
2:46:56And I think it's just as well as just not to go through this thing, present the damn credentials,
2:47:02And he can repeat receiving the vinyl soon.
2:47:05Over there.
2:47:06Let it receive him right there.
2:47:07How's that sound to you?
2:47:11That's fine.
2:47:12We can even make a distinction, you know, you might want to do.
2:47:16Oh yes, I know.
2:47:18But I want to delegate.
2:47:19It's a federal rule, it should be the vice president, unless you put special...
2:47:22Unless I have time to go over it, then there are occasions when I'll go over it.
2:47:26I'm going to distinguish on that.
2:47:28The little things we're going to distinguish on.
2:47:31But disillusioned as I'm going to come in here with a partner out of it, I will never approve anything for one of these countries that voted against us.
2:47:41I'm not going to do it.
2:47:43The goddamn Ecuadorians should go to hell.
2:47:44That was partly our fault.
2:47:46I'll tell you why.
2:47:46I'm sick of it.
2:47:47We did something last year that we shouldn't have.
2:47:49There must be something we can do to get that.
2:47:51I don't know what it is.
2:47:54Well, there's one that we really should put it to.
2:47:57Ready?
2:47:59Well, I am going to have lunch next week with Cromwell, and I'm going to tell him this.
2:48:03Well, I just give you some thought.
2:48:08I think it might not be too bad an idea...
2:48:11If you could work it out some way with the French, currently, when you're, when you're waiting over there having a talk with Pompidou, or needing to meet Pompidou second, goddamn it.
2:48:23Why not try to break Papa Du off just as we won't from the others?
2:48:26The typical idea is that we haven't got to deal with the kind of a deal there that Thomas wants to deal with this thing.
2:48:32But why the hell should we just let the British, in other words, let's meet Papa Du separately?
2:48:36He's the president, the others aren't.
2:48:38I'll go with you separately.
2:48:40I don't, I think it's a good idea.
2:48:42You speak more than decent to them, man.
2:49:08I know this common market thing.
2:49:10It's not in our interest, but I support it.
2:49:12I've talked, who wasn't there talking to me, Goff, at Pompidou about, you know, the British and who the Christ is.
2:49:18You know, I didn't tell them they ought to, but at least I felt they had the weight for it.
2:49:22You know that.
2:49:23Very well, I know it.
2:49:24You know that.
2:49:25And I think it's just, you've got to have time to...
2:49:28I think we should do, Mr. President, I think you should meet with Pompeo.
2:49:44I think you should meet with Brown too, just to show some activity.
2:49:47Do it separately.
2:49:49Do it separately.
2:49:50Then, after having met with those two, let's just leave Heath alone aside for the time being.
2:49:55We've offered it to him, he kicked us in the cheek.
2:49:57I don't know, with Kroger, I wouldn't say that we want to go second to Heath, but if Brown, if Papadou wants to meet me, I'll meet him now.
2:50:04I don't know whether French Guiana is the place to do it, but there isn't a better place.
2:50:07Where the hell would you meet with Brown until they don't know anything anymore?
2:50:10No, no, but Brown is going to be delighted to come over here.
2:50:13Is he?
2:50:13Yes.
2:50:16I guess he would.
2:50:18Oh, delighted.
2:50:19He said, why wouldn't he suggest that we meet at San Clemente this time?
2:50:23Right, sure.
2:50:23Something like that.
2:50:24He'd be delighted.
2:50:25He'd be flattered out of his mind.
2:50:28Come to meet at San Clemente.
2:50:31Or, or.
2:50:32He'd be flattered out of his mind.
2:50:35And we probably wouldn't come here.
2:50:39But I'd be glad to go beyond.
2:50:41But we proposed some other...
2:50:43I don't think I should go to Paris.
2:50:44No.
2:50:45No, no, because then if you don't go to Britain, it's a real slap.
2:50:48But if you start some activity of seeing allies, you start consulting with Pompidou and Brandt, then let those two invite you to that European meeting, because then you've got them positioned ahead of time.
2:51:00Then you can go to Luxembourg.
2:51:04I just don't do it, but...
2:51:06If you want to.
2:51:07No, no, let's just, let's just do it.
2:51:09I just feel this, I don't feel we have to have the British there, goddammit.
2:51:12Let's take them off, let's take them off.
2:51:15I would, well, I, if you approve, then I'll start moving on front, and... Now, now wait, let's be sure that we get the goddamned State Department program on this, now how are we going to do that?
2:51:26You know, how are we going to get, just, just, just... Well, I'll get that agreement in principle, and then... And then have them come in and offer it, then...
2:51:34Like what you did with the others?
2:51:35No, what I can do is say, after we can tell Postform Bidu and Brandt that if you agree in principle, we will make a formal suggestion to use through a diplomatic channel.
2:51:45And then he can tell Ratchett you'd like to do this, and Ratchett can just go through his drill.
2:51:50I'd like to do this.
2:51:52Oh yeah, he can do it, sir.
2:51:55We don't have to do it out of here.
2:51:56All we have to do out of here is to make sure if they approach right away, it leaks.
2:52:02And if they don't want to do it, and also these people are flattered if you took the initiative.
2:52:06All right, you take the initiative.
2:52:08Work it out in principle.
2:52:09I'll meet the French alone, and I'll meet the British alone.
2:52:12The Germans alone.
2:52:13The Germans alone.
2:52:15The British.
2:52:15Well, let's see.
2:52:15After we cut those two, you'll come.
2:52:17I see.
2:52:19But I'll see them alone.
2:52:20I'll take the Germans, and I might just invite them to San Clemente.
2:52:24You'll be there.
2:52:25Well, I can go there anytime.
2:52:27See my point?
2:52:28It's worth it.
2:52:29He's just being out there.
2:52:31In fact, I am going to be there at Thanksgiving, which will be a beautiful time, but he'll be willing to come.
2:52:36I would say, why don't you be there by the weekend?
2:52:39See, for the dedication, incidentally, it would be a hell of a thing for marriage and friendship.
2:52:45We're going to dedicate that Eisenhower Center, you know, medical center, on Saturday, the 30th of November.
2:52:52And if he was to come, you know, I mean, I could stay right there with me in San Clemente in my house.
2:52:59Okay.
2:52:59Which would be a direct thing, you know, just be a guest in the house.
2:53:02Okay.
2:53:03Right.
2:53:04Right.
2:53:05Right.
2:53:05Right.
2:53:08Good.
2:53:09Oh, he'll come.
2:53:10I think his meeting won't be due at that time, but... We'll see.
2:53:15But I'll suggest it to Bob.
2:53:17Ja.
2:53:17Ja.
2:53:19I would like to have him do a meeting out there.
2:53:24I think that has a good deal to it.
2:53:25You can give a dinner to him if you want to.
2:53:28Oh, yes.
2:53:29He'll get a piece of prize on it.
2:53:33Why not give it to him?
2:53:34Oh, I can give him a dinner.
2:53:36Of course I would.
2:53:36Give him a dinner in Los Angeles.
2:53:38Show everybody what you did.
2:53:39They'll see people out there.
2:53:40They'll love him.
2:53:41He can put on a hell of a city dinner in Los Angeles.
2:53:46Thank you.
2:53:47I think we must show some activity towards our allies, huh?
2:53:52Sure.
2:53:52And we can even then consider seeing Sato, too.
2:53:55Well, I think Connors Trevor showed some activity, huh?
2:54:03And, uh... George, I'll talk to you about Finch's trip, by any chance.
2:54:07Rockefeller called me, and he knows that we should let the surcharge before Finch goes or postpone Finch's trip, but we can't postpone his trip, in my opinion.
2:54:16I am inclined to think that if Finch, Finch has got a handle on this trip, George, you better hand it over to him.
2:54:21I'm having breakfast, so it makes sense.
2:54:23If Finch has got a handle on this trip in a way that, you see, here's rock polish concerned.
2:54:28If he goes down there, then he'll have a very, very rocky reception.
2:54:31If the surcharge isn't lifted on the other end, it seems to me that he might go with the idea that one of the purposes is to discuss the problem of the surcharge.
2:54:41Right, and to get it lifted after he leaves.
2:54:45I think that would be, I don't think it's all that big an issue in some places.
2:54:49But, you know, I mean, I think we...
2:54:51I think it's an issue, but I frankly don't think that his reception depends entirely or largely on the search.
2:54:57I think particularly, we indicated, this is one of the matters we're going to discuss, Rocky and Schultz, I started to put Schultz off on it last night.
2:55:05Rocky called me about the day.
2:55:06Okay, I'll talk to Schultz.
2:55:10Just to get it out of the way, because Schultz is working on the search on Friday.
2:55:14So you can...
2:55:15I have scheduled the practice for next Tuesday to go over this whole economic issue.
2:55:20We're going to be visiting this whole economic package.
2:55:23But that is another area we're watching after the reason that we're going to start.
2:55:27Between now and the time we have to get it started and ready for China.
2:55:32And that's got to be on the 1st of February.
2:55:34I got to start in two weeks.
2:55:37I did not have to study.
2:55:39I got to go in there really early.
2:55:41I'll have a study trip.
2:55:43And it's going to be a hell of a thing on my schedule.
2:55:45Now that means that between now and the first half of the week I've got to get these things done.
2:55:52I can't go to China unprepared.
2:55:54Oh, God, no.
2:55:55So my point is that let's get some of the nickel and dime stuff out of the way.
2:55:58Let's consult with our allies and all that.
2:56:01But let's get it going right away.
2:56:03Okay.
2:56:04I think you should have talked to your allies, to our allies, before you've gone to China.
2:56:09Absolutely.
2:56:10So we... You see, to remind this... Don't go overboard and say, well, because of the concern of our allies and the International Bank and the rest, we've got to procedurally remove search arms.
2:56:28We must not do that.
2:56:29Domestically, that would kill us.
2:56:31I'm not out to search arms.
2:56:33I think we ought to remove it selectively.
2:56:37We're going to start that.
2:56:38To take off some of the pressures and to keep the countries from ganging up on us.
2:56:42Well, with Europeans, that's the problem.
2:56:45When we remove it, as we may, on the Americans, including Canada, and possibly Japan, the Europeans, then, we think it might gang up.
2:56:56That's why we'd like to pick the Germans off.
2:56:58That's not going to be possible that way.
2:57:01What I believe...
2:57:04Well, I'd like to talk to Schultz about it.
2:57:07I don't understand the reasons that keep us from formulating what we want from the Europeans.
2:57:15Because unless we assume they're going to give us a better offer than we are capable of formulating, I don't see what we do by formulating an offer.
2:57:25And...
2:57:30So I would like to talk to Schultz.
2:57:34I think we need a new system.
2:57:35I disagree with Burns and those people who want us to go back to the old system.
2:57:42No matter how it is, that's what it is.
2:57:44A system of convertibility where the United States takes the responsibility.
2:57:48We've got it.
2:57:49We're not going to do it anymore.
2:57:50I agree with Connolly that what's going to affect people immediately is what happens in trade.
2:57:57But I think if you can go into the election as a man who's created a new international monetary system and a new international system, and if at the same time trade has improved somewhat, that would be the best possible outcome.
2:58:13Coming back to this other problem of the Borges bill and so forth, it checks the...
2:58:24Just a flag that's going to occur for a while, that's inevitable, and we just are going to be knocked off balance by it.
2:58:30You want to remember that as far as the country is concerned, they aren't going to give much of a damn.
2:58:35You know what I mean?
2:58:36They're against Ford, Hagen, they probably don't understand that.
2:58:40And a lot of this stuff, they're against the United Nations.
2:58:43Our problem is to get it out of the way, and then the China thing will come back from the center.
2:58:49It's got to.
2:58:55You also have to realize that we have, we're going to have, you're just not going to have responsibility having been a part of these parties, the Democrats, and you're not going to do it.
2:59:05Republicans, you're expected to be responsible.
2:59:07It's always been this way.
2:59:08I have always had to be responsible.
2:59:10Who the hell else would have gone around worrying in 64, 65, 66?
2:59:13I defended the goddamn Vietnam policy better than Johnson did.
2:59:18It's a disgrace.
2:59:19Who are they holding?
2:59:21They don't do it.
2:59:22They never defend us.
2:59:23They just... Well, it doesn't defend you.
2:59:25I mean, after all, Mr. President, if you wanted to, you could ride this way.
2:59:32It's defending the country.
2:59:33It's their own goddamn program.
2:59:36It's something unbelievable that you are... Galbraith said this morning that if any democrat had done what you are doing, there'd be barricades in the street.
2:59:50And... You mean on China?
2:59:54On China, on the...
2:59:57He said what you did with the Soviet, he thought it was a tremendous move.
3:00:01Because it made it clear that it wasn't just a trick against the Soviets.
3:00:06And of course, first, they never give you a break in the press.
3:00:08They should have written that Soviet summit for weeks.
3:00:11Right.
3:00:12We all thought it would get some play, but it got two days.
3:00:15The Soviet summit got two days, right?
3:00:17Absolutely.
3:00:18Unbelievable.
3:00:19Exactly the same assault.
3:00:21But the Taiwan thing, the goddamn liberal press has kept going for a week.
3:00:25I don't object to Reagan.
3:00:27He has a legitimate piece.
3:00:29Well, luckily.
3:00:30But why the hell is the New York Times writing it every day?
3:00:34They're writing that one more than they've done it.
3:00:38Because they're trying to... Because they're trying to... A stunning defeat.
3:00:44Kleiman called in yesterday, and I said...
3:00:46I hope you told him all.
3:00:48Oh, I said, listen, I ordered some violins to play when I read your editorial.
3:00:53It nearly broke my heart to see the solicitude of the New York Times.
3:00:57for Taiwan, I could hardly bear the thought, when I consider what you've been doing to Taiwan for 15 years, and now suddenly you remember, I said, name me the European expert, which country switched, which country switched as a result of lack of consultation, what should we have consulted with him about?
3:01:18I said, name me one European country, you're an expert.
3:01:22What did he say?
3:01:23He said, ah, well, it's the mood,
3:01:26The move?
3:01:27I said, name the country?
3:01:29Well, he didn't know the country that switched.
3:01:31I said, which country could we have switched?
3:01:34What if we had given them all six weeks advance warning of my first trip to Beijing?
3:01:39How would that have affected the UN vote?
3:01:41The move?
3:01:42The crisis?
3:01:45When we went over to Europe, we repaired NATO for crisis.
3:01:49We kept a live man who was trying to kill the goddamn thing.
3:01:52We've told them more about salt, which concerns them.
3:01:55We've consulted them all the time.
3:01:57Speaking is of no concern to you.
3:02:00It's a Soviet thing.
3:02:02They know we have that, but we must be considering that all the time we have to.
3:02:09They've been urging us to have...
3:02:10They're just pulling it out of...
3:02:13No, listen, the Chinese is, they die.
3:02:15They don't like the fact that the Poles are good and all, you know, angry.
3:02:19Kill them, sons of bitches.
3:02:21That's all.
3:02:23At least what we do need internally is a better sense of strategy.
3:02:26If we could have, for example, with the foreign aid bill up this week, if that Taiwan thing could have been pushed later, well, it sounds better.
3:02:39You mean the Taiwan vote?
3:02:41Ja, and we would have had to do that.
3:02:46And radio crisis, we discussed that before you left.
3:02:49And we were told the vote would be the earliest, would be Friday, and they could push it to the 2nd or 3rd of November.
3:02:57As soon as they were out of here, they accelerated.
3:02:59That's right, I know, I know.
3:03:01Particularly with the 480, they should have been that way as it turned out.
3:03:06You couldn't do anything.
3:03:08You didn't know until...
3:03:09I kept sending daily cables to Hague saying I can't understand why the road is going so fast all of a sudden.
3:03:21I think Pedersen snuck a push on this one.
3:03:24Oh, yes.
3:03:27In that madhouse, Mr. President, why did we hold stills for night sessions every night last week?
3:03:34I've asked every expert on the UN I know if we had wanted to.
3:03:38I mean, I don't blame Bush because he doesn't know anything, and I don't blame Rogers because he doesn't understand it either.
3:03:43Pedersen knows.
3:03:44But Pedersen is a UN expert.
3:03:46He was up there.
3:03:47Pedersen is out tonight, as every night he can.
3:03:50And Pedersen is out at night, but he's out at night.
3:03:52Me, although, me personally, doesn't make any damn difference.
3:03:57But, uh...
3:03:58He's probably lying.
3:04:01Oh yes, this came out all right for him, because he's also anti-Taiwan, so it isn't that Peloton is for Taiwan.
3:04:08I mean, he's one of these bleeding-hard liberals.
3:04:13Christ, yes.
3:04:15That's what killed him about the PK thing, you know, really.
3:04:19It's a good question.
3:04:20You're talking about the university, maybe I'm the professor.
3:04:23Everything, Henry and the PK thing, just kills these cops because they know, they know very well.
3:04:30And it isn't publicity for me of this trip.
3:04:32If we had had a good shot coming back, not for me, but for the initiative, that would have given us another big lift.
3:04:41As it is, it was positive, but it's not positive.
3:04:44It got so confused with the other things.
3:04:47It came at the time of you.
3:04:50And that was a deliberate ploy.
3:04:53Not by Bill.
3:04:53Bill is not that way.
3:04:55Bill himself is.
3:04:55I don't think Bill did that, really.
3:04:57No, no, he isn't right enough.
3:04:59He didn't tell me it was going to be that way.
3:05:01I don't think he knew.
3:05:03I think Bill thought that he was going to win.
3:05:07And that he was going to get himself a good publicity shot.
3:05:10I think he did think he was going to win.
3:05:12And that he was going to.
3:05:13I think that was Bill's motive.
3:05:16But Patterson is too smart about the UN.
3:05:19He figured either way it's good.
3:05:22Well, Henry, let me tell you.
3:05:26It's done.
3:05:26It's a blip.
3:05:27Remember to keep it in context.
3:05:30No, no.
3:05:31The personal part is a blip.
3:05:32No, I mean in terms of the whole strategy.
3:05:53That's all.
3:05:54But we just stay on the head.
3:05:56Talk peace, talk China, and all the rest.
3:05:59Okay?
3:05:59Oh, I think the basic direction of our policy has overwhelmed them.
3:06:04They haven't got as long a policy.
3:06:06We've got to get them.
3:06:07Let me say, though, that I think you should know that I have made up my mind on Vietnam.
3:06:11The rest of the Russian trip, the Chinese trip, everything, but we're finishing Vietnam, and the president thing has got to be decided before Christmas.
3:06:19I've got to have you know something.
3:06:22They don't have it.
3:06:22Screw them.
3:06:24Now they are not going to come back here.
3:06:25We're not going over there and have enough place where they can eat tea and all that sort of crap.
3:06:32And delay it.
3:06:32We have laid it out here.
3:06:34I've told Tito, and I told him, and I don't shoot bunnies.
3:06:39And I said, we have made our last best offer.
3:06:42If they do not discuss it, if we do not have an arrangement regarding prisoners before Christmas, I said I'll have to move in another direction.
3:06:49And I will.
3:06:50He knows.
3:06:51It's all down in the paper, as you can see.
3:06:53We've got to make sure that this memorandum of conversation doesn't go anywhere.
3:06:57Don't worry.
3:06:58Well, that Koloski guy, I told him, you better be sure he works at the State Department of Mississippi.
3:07:05You grab that Koloski and tell him that memorandum is made only for Michael, only for me, and for you, but he's not to give it over to the State Department.
3:07:13Correct.
3:07:15You better be sure he doesn't, because that was a tough conversation.
3:07:19Okay.
3:07:21I've got the bring-in coming in.
3:07:22I was going to talk to him for about ten minutes on the China thing.
3:07:30What are the statements today on China?
3:07:31Yeah, but that's probably just a minor.
3:07:34They're probably just going to tell us what they'll do.
3:07:37But they've already indicated that.
3:07:39I don't know what it is.
3:07:41They said they would see him on Saturday.
3:07:44Late Saturday, so it's too early.
3:07:46It'll be later today.
3:07:47I would see him.
3:07:52That one is currently on NRF.
3:07:53It's in their interest.
3:07:58And actually... And the Soviet thing is in our interest, too.
3:08:01Incidentally, I ate at George's breakfast with George Lundgren and Joe Alsop.
3:08:07He said, Joe has a crying towel on about this.
3:08:13He said we're in a terrible position for the Soviets.
3:08:15But you know how it is.
3:08:16He just went, the Soviets are ready to kill us.
3:08:18And we're way behind now.
3:08:19We've got to do something.
3:08:21Joe is always... Well, on the military side, the Soviets are working maniacally.
3:08:25But we have to go through this.
3:08:27What are we going to do?
3:08:29What the hell can we do militarily unless and until we have run out of strength on the arms control?
3:08:37That's what it is.
3:08:38As I told you, I said, if we don't get arms control, I then have to move and strengthen the United States military, and I will.
3:08:45And I said, I think in terms of 10 to 15 billion dollars.
3:08:50So he's got that too.
3:08:52I better get hold of my Colossus before it starts bouncing around.

Nixon, Kissinger & Bull on Foreign Aid and United Nations Taiwan Vote

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Also recorded on October 30, 1971

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