Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 617 › Conversation 617-010

Nixon, Kissinger & Baker on Cabinet appointments and Nelson Rockefeller

Friday, November 12, 1971 · 2:19 PM–2:23 PM ET · Oval Office · 5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Bull, Stephen B.; Kissinger, Henry A.; Baker, Howard H., Jr.Conversation617-010 on Tape 617 (tape position 00:56:15–01:01:40)StartFriday, November 12, 1971 at 2:19 PMEndFriday, November 12, 1971 at 2:23 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 617-010 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Henry Kissinger met to discuss potential personnel changes within the administration, specifically debating the merits of Elliot Richardson versus Nelson Rockefeller for future roles, including potential State Department leadership. The discussion emphasized maintaining administrative control and managing political expectations for the 1972 campaign. Additionally, Nixon instructed Kissinger to ensure John B. Connally receives prominent credit for his contributions to the administration's economic policy initiatives.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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If we come down to the situation after the election, Mr., what to do on state, would you feel it would be Richardson to hold an hour?

Well, I thought it would be Richardson until his Vietnam thing, which just didn't seem to me a very...

I mean, he should have gone to Vietnam when you asked me about it.

There are two things that bother me.

It's another possibility, Rockefeller.

It's a question whether he'd play ball.

I think he'd play ball, but he'd be over here alone.

Okay.

On the other hand, would Richardson get in the line if he were...

I think Richardson would get in the line, yeah.

Well, he'd be more established, you know.

But Mr. President, if you told him ahead of time that you wanted a clean-up of the department and that you wanted him to work, say, with me if I were still here...

He's been very good on ATW.

I mean, he's been good, but he stands up for those left-wingers over there.

I swear to God, he has not been good.

No, no, he has been good.

I'm not intending to make that as a disaster.

I think we better do is to just keep our options open on that.

I just don't want to... Rockefeller might be ready at that time to... What I want you to do is... Hello?

Yeah?

Hello?

It's not here to ask you to revoke or anything, but I can't let a young man get old without telling you, so... Don't you get any older?

Yeah.

Yeah, you look fine.

That's right.

Well, I'm glad to see you.

See you as one of our younger statesmen who's done all this and that.

And you go on the line.

OK. OK. Bye.

I have the distinct impression that Rockefeller is most anxious to get into the cabinet.

And I think it's .

It would be outstanding if they had sort of dangled it in front of him because his enthusiasm in the campaign may depend on what he thinks is going to happen.

I would also like to indicate that the President is, frankly, considering you the only man in the administration, the only one, you know, and he's got the team.

He has confidence in your political bank, confidence in your loyalty, and so forth, and your judgment.

And then, frankly, he just figures it's a two-man team.

And there, as he has been, frankly, the president, I really appreciate what he wanted to do.

He wants you to get the credit on this business.

See, I don't want him to think that I'm just letting you be a bad boy.

You need to look back.

Really, I see the way you do it.

But I want, he was the author of your economic policy, and I want him to get the credit for his great mill initiative.

And he could get his name associated.

But you'll get the credit anyway, too, but...

I want him to have a feeling.

I just don't want him to think.

NARA Description

On November 12, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, Henry A. Kissinger, and Howard H. Baker, Jr. met in the Oval Office of the White House from 2:19 pm to 2:23 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 617-010 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 617-10

Date: November 15, 1971
Time: 2:19 pm - 2:23 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Stephen B. Bull and Henry A. Kissinger.
                                               13

                             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                      Conv. No. 617-9 (cont.)



     The President’s schedule
          -Telephone call to unknown person

Bull left at an unknown time before 2:20 pm.

     Secretary of State
          -Elliot L. Richardson
                -Vietnam
          -[David] Kenneth Rush
          -Nelson A. Rockefeller
          -Richardson
                -Performance
                      -Department of Health, Education, and Welfare [HEW]
                           -Robert H. Finch
          -Rockefeller

The President talked with Howard H. Baker, Jr. between 2:20 pm and 2:21 pm.

[Conversation No. 617-10A]

[See Conversation No. 14-106]

[End of telephone conversation]

     Rockefeller
         -Possible role with administration
               -State Department
                     -Reorganization
               -1972 campaign

     John B. Connally
          -Instruction to Kissinger
                -Letter
          -The President's economic policy
                -Credit

     Michael J. Mansfield

Kissinger left at 2:23 pm.
                                               14

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                    Conv. No. 617-10 (cont.)

Also recorded on November 12, 1971

297-038 2:20 PM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:20 pm to 2:25 pm.
617-011 2:23 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 2:23 pm and 2:26 pm.
297-039 2:25 PM · 30 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:25 pm and 2:36 pm.
617-012 2:26 PM · 1 hr 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon, George P. Shultz, Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger, Stephen B. Bull, Clark MacGregor, William E. Timmons, Ronald L. Ziegler, Michael J. ("Mike") Mansfield, Hugh Scott, Gerald R. Ford, Milton R. Young, Allen J. Ellender, George H. Mahon, Frank T. Bow, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 2:26 pm and 3:36 pm.
014-084 2:36 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 2:36 pm to 2:38 pm.
297-040 2:36 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:36 pm to 2:38 pm.
014-085 2:38 PM · 4 min — John D. Ehrlichman, White House operator, John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:38 pm and 11:59 pm.
297-041 2:40 PM · 10 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:40 pm to 2:41 pm.

All 93 conversations from November 12, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 617-010, November 12, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/617-010 (accessed October 1, 2026).