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Conversation 617-010

TapeTape 617StartFriday, November 12, 1971 at 2:19 PMEndFriday, November 12, 1971 at 2:23 PMTape start time00:56:15Tape end time01:01:40ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Bull, Stephen B.;  Kissinger, Henry A.;  Baker, Howard H., Jr.Recording deviceOval Office
AudioNARA Description

On November 12, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, Henry A. Kissinger, and Howard H. Baker, Jr. met in the Oval Office of the White House from 2:19 pm to 2:23 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 617-010 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 617-10

Date: November 15, 1971
Time: 2:19 pm - 2:23 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Stephen B. Bull and Henry A. Kissinger.
                                               13

                             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                      Conv. No. 617-9 (cont.)



     The President’s schedule
          -Telephone call to unknown person

Bull left at an unknown time before 2:20 pm.

     Secretary of State
          -Elliot L. Richardson
                -Vietnam
          -[David] Kenneth Rush
          -Nelson A. Rockefeller
          -Richardson
                -Performance
                      -Department of Health, Education, and Welfare [HEW]
                           -Robert H. Finch
          -Rockefeller

The President talked with Howard H. Baker, Jr. between 2:20 pm and 2:21 pm.

[Conversation No. 617-10A]

[See Conversation No. 14-106]

[End of telephone conversation]

     Rockefeller
         -Possible role with administration
               -State Department
                     -Reorganization
               -1972 campaign

     John B. Connally
          -Instruction to Kissinger
                -Letter
          -The President's economic policy
                -Credit

     Michael J. Mansfield

Kissinger left at 2:23 pm.
                                               14

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                                    Conv. No. 617-10 (cont.)
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

If we come down to the situation after the election, Mr., what to do on state, would you feel it would be Richardson to hold an hour?
Well, I thought it would be Richardson until his Vietnam thing, which just didn't seem to me a very...
I mean, he should have gone to Vietnam when you asked me about it.
There are two things that bother me.
It's another possibility, Rockefeller.
It's a question whether he'd play ball.
I think he'd play ball, but he'd be over here alone.
Okay.
On the other hand, would Richardson get in the line if he were...
I think Richardson would get in the line, yeah.
Well, he'd be more established, you know.
But Mr. President, if you told him ahead of time that you wanted a clean-up of the department and that you wanted him to work, say, with me if I were still here...
He's been very good on ATW.
I mean, he's been good, but he stands up for those left-wingers over there.
I swear to God, he has not been good.
No, no, he has been good.
I'm not intending to make that as a disaster.
I think we better do is to just keep our options open on that.
I just don't want to... Rockefeller might be ready at that time to... What I want you to do is... Hello?
Yeah?
Hello?
It's not here to ask you to revoke or anything, but I can't let a young man get old without telling you, so... Don't you get any older?
Yeah.
Yeah, you look fine.
That's right.
That's right.
Well, I'm glad to see you.
See you as one of our younger statesmen who's done all this and that.
And you go on the line.
OK. OK. Bye.
I have the distinct impression that Rockefeller is most anxious to get into the cabinet.
And I think it's .
It would be outstanding if they had sort of dangled it in front of him because his enthusiasm in the campaign may depend on what he thinks is going to happen.
I would also like to indicate that the President is, frankly, considering you the only man in the administration, the only one, you know, and he's got the team.
He has confidence in your political bank, confidence in your loyalty, and so forth, and your judgment.
And then, frankly, he just figures it's a two-man team.
And there, as he has been, frankly, the president, I really appreciate what he wanted to do.
He wants you to get the credit on this business.
See, I don't want him to think that I'm just letting you be a bad boy.
You need to look back.
Really, I see the way you do it.
But I want, he was the author of your economic policy, and I want him to get the credit for his great mill initiative.
And he could get his name associated.
But you'll get the credit anyway, too, but...
I want him to have a feeling.
I just don't want him to think.
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