On December 6, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, White House operator, William P. Rogers, George H. W. Bush, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Ronald L. Ziegler, John D. Ehrlichman, Vice President Spiro T. Agnew, and Wilbur D. Mills met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:09 am to 10:08 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 629-006 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
I told her there really wasn't much more that we knew about her than that.
they saw in the papers, because this is why we have no military advisers present, because we have no, uh, no information that's really any better than we get from there, and there we get just a two-sided story, but there wasn't any other police.
What you're seeing this morning has not been in the papers.
We had some military officers who get some of these, these maps of the general situation, which show that in the West, the, uh,
Indians are largely in defensive positions and concentrating their air attacks on Karachi to knock out the oil supplies of the Pakistanis.
In the east, the Indians are launching major attacks and they are beginning to approach the major provincial cities and...
Well, that puts a completely new light now on any of these withdrawal resolutions set up before the general assembly, because now the Indians will take the position that East Pakistan is no longer part of Pakistan but an independent state, Bangladesh, that they are not responsible to...
about it, to deal with it with respect to Islamabad, but rather that they deal with the Calcutta people, whom they will probably move into what they call Bangladesh now.
So we will be faced today with two decisions.
One, if the Italian resolution fails, as it will probably in the Security Council,
whether to take the issue to the General Assembly.
And under the Uniting for Peace resolution, and given the voting lineup and the Security Council, there's a rather good chance that we would get a two-thirds majority for this sort of resolution that has been vetoed twice on an 11-year-old.
It's ceasefire and withdrawal.
It's ceasefire and withdrawal, and calling attention to the fact that there should also be a political settlement, but after the ceasefire and withdrawal,
progress with Pakistan on the political side, but at least they indicated willingness to discuss at various levels.
We have been in discussions.
No indication from the Indians they would look with any receptivity upon that sort of initiative.
Well, when the prime minister was here, you proposed to her a number of steps, such as the unilateral withdrawal of Pakistan voters.
I proposed to her about that this morning, and that's the process.
And secondly, we proposed that we would explore with the Pakistanis the possibility of negotiations between the Pakistanis and Bangladesh representatives in Calcutta that had been approved by Mujib Rahman, who is being charged with treason, in order to have a bridge between the leader of the Awami League and the Pakistanis were in the process of considering this when these attacks started.
So we have made significant efforts to bring about a political test.
Are those ships, the cargo ships that are in the area,
There are no American military ships.
Why are you saying that?
What about American civilians?
Are we warning them off now about American visas and all that sort of thing?
We have evacuated American civilians from Karachi.
We are in the process of attempting to negotiate a ceasefire in the Dhaka area in order to be able to evacuate the Americans in the Dhaka area.
And we hope that by the end of today, we had one established and then it broke down.
There was an attack on the Dhaka airport, but we think that by the end of today we'll be able to start moving people out.
We moved about 300 out of Karachi, and I think it's 190, something like that.
These ships, of course, are not under governmental control.
But we have four American lines, wherever they are, government or not.
That's right.
We have worn ships, and I don't believe that any ships are moving in there.
I'll have to check into it, but it's inconceivable to me.
This one was in the harbor of Chittagong.
When the attack started, it was in before the operation started, and was caught there.
I don't believe that any ships are moving in there.
I think we better get the senior.
We have a special action group meeting of the underprivileged and they could prepare the basic for that meeting any time afternoon.
All right.
We'll go.
Let's say 1.30.
All right.
And we'll meet 1.30.
And the same group that
This the Middle Eastern thing?
Yes.
Is Laird in town?
Laird is leaving, but Packard.
I talked to Laird last night.
Packard.
I know it's you.
Well, I rocked it with Laird.
Moore should be there to give us something else.
Moore is out of town, too.
We have to get this.
Well, Ryan heard one of the others.
Westmoreland.
Westmoreland.
He needs to be here in the area.
And, uh...
Let's have comedy also so I can see what the situation is on any economic or other assistance that may be flowing into the area.
Because that is a question that's going to be very lively, I can assure you.
in opposition to or in defiance to a majority of U.N. opinion.
There's going to be very strong opinion in the Congress for going slow on any economic assistance that is given to that part of the world, particularly to whoever may be the aggressor.
We're getting the basic facts together.
That's stronger than many of us realize.
But we have the basic facts together of what can be done, what hasn't been committed yet, what is in the pipeline, so you can decide what degree of U.S. action is indicated.
there is a total lack of interest in becoming involved in an initiative given courage to any nation that the responsibility for aggressive action is resting upon.
Provided that responsibility has been placed by the U.N. as it has in this case.
I think that's the move to the U.N. is a good move.
And look, it's not a good move.
Well, it's an economically extremely depressed area.
And
totally incapable of supporting itself.
So it will then raise major problems of where and how international assistance is going to come from and how it's going to be distributed.
And once the state is established, if this is the way it's going to go, the whole relationship of its defense and foreign policy to India is going to come up and will raise a whole series of complex problems.
I'll let Rodgers do it.
You got Rodgers?
Going on to other things.
No, in, uh, in capital of the, uh, we, uh, oh, we, we got this set now at, at maybe 134 meters EOB because, uh, there's, uh, we, uh, I've got some other meetings to be taking place here.
And, uh, and, uh,
I'm just getting a general rundown on the situation.
You also could, I think, give those, give the senators a call and tell them to come out and come back.
This afternoon, I don't know how properly that was to be done, but I think it's a very good idea for at least the record to be held with regard to what we've done in the refugee, why we came to the U.N. We are staying out of this thing.
of our military assistance, the fact that he had cut off military assistance, and et cetera.
Because even though you read it all the time, I'm quite familiar with the tone, and I'm not as familiar as they might be with this.
Your Master Sheriff made the statement that the effect that we have, we're doing absolutely nothing to track your deeds.
And I told Nancy about it this morning, and I said, I can't understand that, because you know we've given $250 million.
And Mike was aware of it.
So I think it's just one of those things where
That's just going to sum up the record, you know, and keep putting it out, right?
Apparently quite a few of these balls have heard something to end the day on Halloween.
You said the production of Chinese exchange was much better.
I think you do too many of those, but I think just doing a few, due to the fact that they must be aware of the fact that we're informing them, that's all.
No, but I think, you know,
Also, it'll also give a lot of the Democrats a chance to get out and make speeches about things.
That isn't what you want.
I think that yourself might do a few in your office about that.
National.
That's right.
The armed services, foreign affairs, maybe, I don't know.
Because if you go beyond that, it's simply going to be a miniature UN today.
Yeah.
What time is the mayor's mail meeting?
Yeah.
I think by that time, there won't be anything to do here.
His conference is one of his, apparently.
He had a bullet, that's on my record.
Except I certainly wouldn't want to be in a position where the Indian was trying to take west, I assume.
So that was going to be real rough.
That'd be good trade.
That'd be good trade.
Good trade.
Good.
Yeah?
On other matters in Cambodia, it seems for the moment to be somewhat more stable in the northeast
The South Vietnamese are advancing into Cambodia from the west, and that ought to take some of the pressure off.
At this all-talks, if you remember, you talked to Gromyko about linking the offensive to the defensive weapons.
And now, for the first time, the Soviets have made a formal presentation
of the offensive position.
Up to now, their position has been that they would talk about defensive weapons only.
Well, of course, our main point of statement was crystal clear on that.
Our main point of statement, there was no possibility of misunderstanding, but they interpreted the statement to mean that there had to be substantial agreement on defensive weapons before they discussed offensive ones.
Then when Gromyko was here, you pointed out that it had to be done simultaneously.
And actually, at this round of SALT talks, there has been more emphasis on offensive than on defensive weapons.
And on the land-based weapons, we are coming pretty close to each other now.
Let me come to one other thing else, and that is related to something.
How do you interpret that hardening Paris position, at least in the...
in the hotel by the North Theater.
I mean, it's their position.
And if anything, it's much harder now than it was in October.
I mean, at least there's no more collage about the whole deal.
I mean, all this talk earlier about they would exchange withdrawal with prisoners is now off the window.
They're simply saying, if you withdraw, if you overthrow the June government,
That is their position.
It's sort of peeling the skin off an onion.
Their usual strategy has been that they will state a proposition in rather selfish terms and then get a tremendous debate started in this country about what it really means.
Now, point one of their seven-point proposal has always said that all American assistance had to be, all Americans and all American assistance had to be withdrawn.
Now, for a while, they permitted Americans to speculate that this meant only American military forces and perhaps some American military assistance.
They did not apply it.
They didn't say whether it applied to economic assistance or to others.
Secondly, they used to let Americans speculate.
They never said it, that you could separate point one, which has only to do with withdrawal from the other points,
Now, the things that we have indicated a greater readiness to go into the detail, the details are becoming apparent, which is that the overthrow of the existing government, which is point two, is linked to point one, and that they interpret point one to mean that we have to stop not only military activities, which we said we would do, but military assistance and all economic assistance, in other words, that we should overthrow
together with the political structure in South Vietnam.
And that explains the President's stalemate.
On the other hand, they have said they would not make new proposals.
This might mean that this sounds as if it's really transigent, but it also might mean that they don't want to confuse the issue by coming up with a whole new set.
Well, I was making a question on what I saw in the State Department's report this morning.
That's right.
Their formal position is very tough.
But their formal position is always tough until they make a move.
And we have had reports that Lee Ducktoe might come back in the trail.
You don't know nothing further than that?
Well, after they said he'd come back, they also said that he had fallen ill. Again?
And so now we don't know whether he's recovered or whether they've decided.
Well, one other thing, Chris, briefly.
Uh, several, uh, historians naturally were interested in what was happening in the Middle East because of, uh, primacy and physics.
It seems that this did seem to be the lead of women.
Yeah, I think so.
Strongly decided to lead to, to stop the reflections about women's liberation, but the, uh, uh...
These are strong.
These are strong, uh... Yeah.
These are following the path.
She has the problem that she's obviously concerned about her security.
We have the problem that we are concerned to prevent the outbreak of a war that might spread into a central war.
I think we have convinced her, you and the Secretary of State in your talk, that we will not permit the balance of power in the Middle East to change and that we will have concrete discussions as to what that means.
At the same time, we've put before her the need for some diplomatic flexibility, and I think we're going to be able to match these two positions over the coming months.
And the visit has substantially reduced
maybe even dispelled many of the misunderstandings that have arisen over the recent months.
That was with you in your follow-up over the weekend?
Yeah, I've talked to the Israeli Assessor on your behalf, and my impression is, while we don't agree on every detail,
They understand our position.
They know that we will not let their security be jeopardized by a shift in the balance of power.
And I think they have come to understand your position with respect to the diplomatic, if that is better.
I don't know what you're going to do next, sir.
Well, uh... Sunday afternoon.
Well, first... Well, the ladies' meeting... Well, the ladies' meeting... Well, the ladies' meeting...
The way all other meetings will be set up is that you will meet with the head of state on the big policy issues, while concurrently the secretary of state will meet with his counterpart to discuss things with the foreign policy treasurer, and the secretary of the treasury will meet with his counterpart to discuss three or four rather complex economic issues on the agenda today with Canada, for example.
And the proposal is that when Steve's, Simon Tang's meetings have reached a point either where they agree or where they have reached a point where they can state their disagreement, that they might join you and the Prime Minister or you and the President and maybe another meeting so that any deadlocks can be
The thing I asked the leaders this morning was I said not all of you are going to assume that the only thing we're discussing at these meetings is the international monetary situation.
I said that and trade and so forth, of course, will be very active and lively subjects for discussion.
But I said these meetings, clearly apart from those subjects, would have been held because they are the essential consultation that had to take place before both the Chinese and the Russian summits.
And we consider it to be vital for those reasons, and that will probably take a very, very large portion of the time.
In fact, when you made your first approach to these leaders early in October, the monetary issue was one but a very subsidiary one.
I'm sorry.
Well, the leaders didn't tell I didn't know.
I was just looking over the background.
But he knows as well as I know that those things have got to be worked out at other levels by the experts in these areas.
We'll discuss them.
We'll have to make the final decisions.
But I believe he's going to be far more interested in working with you about our European portions
What kind of discussions are you going to have with regard to China, since you know you have a Chinese ambassador there?
And what about the future of the alliance, et cetera?
Which, of course, matter for what you think.
Obviously, the press interest will be a pertinent subject.
But it's already got reading on it.
There's one page, a couple of pages on it on Sunday.
I mean, it's got reading on the rest of it.
Well, it varies from country to country.
I would suspect that Trudeau will emphasize some very concrete economic issues in addition to the ones you've mentioned.
On the other hand, the Europeans would be extremely interested in your view about the forces that are going to be in Europe, our attitude towards these negotiations and mutual force reductions with the Soviet Union.
our attitude in Moscow and Peking, and I would think that that would take three or four weeks of the time.
One or two weeks.
One or two weeks.
I think we have one small thing on the schedules.
I noticed that in the meetings that they had to say that they, you know, made everything out of the equal, but they had equal amount of time for every one of them.
And I want you to add, Henry, a state policy on the schedules.
I want you to add a, and so we really truly want the equal.
Something to the sorrow of the time and also the fun of the time.
Because of the language problem.
Right.
I mean, now, of course, both of us have something to do.
We'll take the time to get more time together.
You understand?
Right.
This is a proper allocation time.
That's right.
So, uh, are you small?
Good.
I'll take care of it.
You'll be noticed.
I mean, uh...
I've talked to him last...
I've talked to him several times each day.
And... Oh, after the vote, yes.
He's got the most unreluctant group of brawlers that's ever been assembled in one room.
He's handled it with great passion, too.
I've got to get going.
In South Korea, they have declared... Well, the South Koreans claim that the North Koreans are intensifying their military preparations and that they are infiltrating more people.
We have ordered a special intelligence survey made upon the facts, and we're going to have a paper for you first thing tomorrow morning as to what we know
about the Delta Force, if there is any Delta Force military forces.
We have, up to now, had no evidence that there's anything unusual going on.
Yes.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Hello?
George, you've had a rather lagging time out there.
Yeah, I did.
You don't think there's time to send kids out?
We all often hear, I mean I was talking to Bill this morning and Henry is now extremely well and presenting the case.
Is there anything coming up immediately today or is there going to be more of the same?
They do so because they exist on a political settlement at the same time.
Yes, sir.
get that very, very hard, because there's absolutely no excuse you cannot have a political settlement.
If they say you have a political settlement, you'll have a ceasefire, you'll have war forever out there.
Because the hatred runs so deep, we all know that.
They've got to have a ceasefire, which is all the worst, and a political settlement can come.
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
Now, George, what do you view on the agenda this afternoon?
I think you should go there.
I mean, don't let me say a picture of my team in those directions because I'm a world-class proponent of the focus on this thing.
So don't horse around and have to wait to get this clear and that clear and the other thing.
We're going in that direction, okay?
All right.
All right.
Exactly.
Well, another thing that you have to have in mind is that now some, all over the world, we've got to make this basically a political issue.
We've got to do what we can to be more important than anything else now, is to get the facts out with regard to what we have done, what we have done, what we have done with the regulations and so forth and so on.
Yeah.
If you see, and I want you to watch too, but if you see that some here in the Senate and the House, for whatever reason, get out and misrepresent our opinions, I want you to hear it frontally, strongly, and publicly.
Is that clear?
I mean, don't just take your gloves off and crack it because you know exactly what will be done, okay?
No people with troops
All right, we'll see you later.
This concludes the agenda for this morning.
Hodgson is going to the hill on the 9th on the transportation problem as it relates to the later transportation down as it relates to the farm problem.
And Butts is going to be speaking to the Farm Bureau, Secretary Butts.
is making his first major assistant of our bureau either today or tomorrow.
And we'll get to the same point.
So there are people I consider a transformation legislature.
It's hard to say what is the greatest failure of the Congress.
The failure to pass welfare reform, the failure to give relief to the cities and the counties and the states in revenue sharing.
to pass something in the health field.
But if there's one thing that is really tough on many Americans, it is the failure to pass this very simple bill that would have stopped labor disputes in the transportation field.
We had a railroad strike that left the
Thousands of tons of farm products rotting on the site.
We've had two dock strikes.
It's cost the American farmers and American consumers as well hundreds of millions of dollars.
And we've got a bill up there.
They haven't even had a hearing on the thing in one of the houses for over a year.
Now it's time that these cabinet officers get off the dock.
I want the Secretary of Agriculture to hit it hard.
I want all the people in the administration to hit it.
They won't at this session.
But by talking now, we might get some action at the next session because the country is
We've got to get going on.
I think the Catholic people should know that I think we have not yet.
It's hard enough.
We can send down a nice little bill.
We send it down to the Congress.
We wait for everybody to act.
And we think that because it's good, maybe they'll act.
They are going to act unless they are prodded, unless it becomes a matter of priority.
I mean, now it's time for the Catholic officers to attack, and attack them until they get some action.
They're off to a good start.
It's a couple of good speeches, but one speech is not enough.
There must be speeches.
Then they must talk to the various interest groups that are involved.
They must get letters into the team members of the House and Senate from the committees.
They've got to go up and see them.
They've got to keep in touch with them when he goes out.
My great-great-grandfather realized it's a matter of top priority.
See, the problem is, while we've got so many things that are top priority, is that usually the Congress ends up doing nothing.
And now in this field, we've got welfare reform, which includes Social Security increases.
revenue sharing and government reorganization, no action.
And transportation, the stop-striking transportation, no action.
This is inexcusable because the Congress had over a year and a half to act, but some of the responsibility is ours for failing to put enough public pressure on the Congress.
When the pressure goes on the Congress, the Congress acts.
The other thing, before I get into
The economic game is one that, I don't know if you saw the Gallup poll Friday, that they showed that 38% of the public want more strict wheat price controls than we now have.
Apparently 15% want less strict and 37% want to stay in the present.
And the interesting thing there is that they point out that, as well, we need to paragraph, but further interesting is the fact that labor union members, whose leaders have been sharply critical of President Nixon's economic policies,
hold huge, closely comparable to those of the rest of the nation.
And they chose the labor bandits, 39% paid restricted controls, and only 16% less paid, 33%.
And so you're pretty much on the same page.
Also, Harris has got a poll coming out.
He had one that's out today showing that he's still at the same level of overwhelming power as the tech base here.
Also, on Thursday, the Thursday release, it shows by 49.3%, most Americans agree with the statement that President Nixon is putting the country on the road to economic recovery.
And so I think we've got to make sure we're on the way.
Whatever the public indicators show, the factors we needed, and the policy is working.
We finally reduced the rate of inflation.
Now we can get this tax bill through this week, which we certainly should be able to do.
That will give the necessary emphasis to the employment fund.
Do you want to cover this?
Yes, sir.
on that.
Is there anything you want to say?
Well, there are many things.
The curses in India, Pakistan, I agree with them on.
Also, I asked Roger Schwartz of the Senate leadership on any later phases of development.
Again, I'm not going to tell.
They believe the United States is following the proper policies and staying out of the conflict.
They believe we were correct in cutting off arms safety in India.
A few of them, the evidence that India was engaged in
There's some aggression in this area, and I think that is what the U.N. vote was so educated.
And also what the elements of this point indicates, although it's mixed as to what happened and what caused it all in the beginning.
They also believe that we should keep the matter from the center of the U.N.
Beyond that, they were interested in the talks of the U.N.
We're going to maintain the balance of power there, but at the same time, we're fighting continued threats for something more than a cruise.
We need to enter a settlement.
That's a step closer to laundering something.
On the legislating front, there really isn't really too much to report, except they were far more optimistic about their ability to get out.
The Senate thinks they might finish this week.
The House, that's not in parallel, is much more optimistic about the middle of next week, because they've done some tough action on their economic stabilization bill where they've got some changes.
And also, Wayne Hayes has really got his dander up for a while, and he's right on the strap with Nancy Pelosi.
All in all, they have determined that they're going to put the pressure on to get a German.
And they have also decided that definitely they will come back in the evening.
I think the fact that they decided to come back in the 18th of January, they're going to be out here before the 17th.
It's going to be the 17th of January.
Well, the focus of attention today is going to be on the India-Pakistan border and on the congressional plane.
From a police standpoint, we're going to issue an executive order establishing the salary level for the pay and price board.
That's what we have from a police standpoint.
We are going to meet today, it's not on public record, but I think it's a meeting of the special action group here.
Rogers, Laird, and Moore.
And Moore is not here.
Where is he?
Westmoreland.
He's there.
He's there.
He's there.
in terms of the .
That'll be 1.30 at the U of E, but that's where we know the press conference.
That's where we know the press conference.
And after that meeting, maybe we'll give you some more information on it.
I talked to Bush on the phone.
We're continuing to trust for our resolutions and our schemes and our assumptions.
Yeah, you were calling me after the meeting.
You can't get me to get anything done.
The Smith story on Sadat this morning, I'm going to leave that at state and not get into any of the diplomatic stuff.
Well, obviously, Sadat's going to be concerned because he met with the American Prime Minister.
and we're just on a tightrope here.
On the one hand, we've got to reassure the Israelis that the balance will not shift, or otherwise the Israelis will have to take action to protect themselves.
On the other hand, we are in a position where if we
If we go too far in reassuring the Israelis, we may provoke the OAR, Sadat Adel, to take some action against the Israelis.
What we're trying to do here is to maintain the balance, maintain the truce, and get some talks started.
I think it's essential to reassure the Israelis that this is our policy, and maintain the balance on the other hand.
Sadat may not think that as a result of what we have done here, there's any change in policy in our country.
He knows that this is what they are going to do, and he's receiving them considerably from the Russians.
It's, of course, a close question as to what Sadat will do, or what he may be forced to do by his extremists.
as a result of our continued aid to the treatment.
But he himself is receiving some assistance from Russia.
Let's see if the time will come.
Very good.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
He will preside over the representatives of states.
How long do I have to stay here?
About 15 minutes.
I have to go see you.
If you can open it and simply indicate your gratitude for them for the support you've had for them.
Yeah, this is central, like I've heard.
It is, that's right.
And since the vice president's had us meet with Sam Powell,
And this meeting, of course, is for the purpose of taking their recommendations for next year's legislative program.
And they've been talking about a couple of key areas.
And one of the most interesting just now, of course, is the finance of public education and the problem of real estate taxation.
And they'll be making a presentation on that.
Well, they're, uh, however, they continue to realize that the major subject that they've got to continue to press is, of course, we've had a major break.
Yeah, I know.
Don't assume that that break is going to get the action.
I understand.
Because, you know, we've, uh, that's only one place.
Well, it would be very helpful if you don't have to go over to the Senate.
That's right.
And so they may have a different game.
That's right.
And the Senate, uh,
goes around or comes up with something totally different.
And the house is all down the tube again.
And the insurances that these people had from the first mills, I understand, they were only for the house.
They didn't have any insurance.
Some of these people talked to the bond, or...
I don't know.
They had something to make them see why they were there.
What do you think about the Senate?
Well, I'm optimistic.
I think that if we can clear past what it means,
and you'll get a little treatment in fairly short order.
You think so?
I think so.
Well, I think it's up to him and up to him and...
Uh, he, I think, uh, recognizes merits of the case.
But what about, what about the Senate, uh, uh, uh, doing a bit of a tax bill?
I mean, uh, and it's a much more robust budget.
This is, this is a problem, but I think, uh, you know, he's been very responsible.
Uh, he's, he's been responsible in terms of, uh, like a tax bill, uh, all that kind of thing.
And he said over the weekend that he knows you want a reaction.
I think that would be a good idea.
He thinks probably the press is having cave-in pressure from the public interest groups and so on.
I think the fact is that he simply has the right to help for me, and he feels he can help me in his own support.
Could I get Congress to the mayorals, please?
He bought his battle, and he's got certain principles that he wanted in.
He's given some.
He's given some.
That's the way it works.
Well, and the main thing, if it isn't a question of who wins or loses here in the Senate, it's a fact.
Or in the late year.
That would be a good thing to mention to these folks, because they have really been impressed by this, the kind of situations that they've had in their association.
Vice President presides, and it would be largely for the purpose of letting the Cabinet, the Domestic Council, hear their recommendations for next year.
And then those recommendations will flow to you.
What do I do?
Well, these are public interest groups.
Public interest groups.
But they're mainly, they're kind of, they're the Association of Governors, the Association of County Executives, and the City of Cities, and the Association of Mayors.
Now, the mayors have just had a meeting now with the vice president.
Is this a fair request?
That's a fair request.
We met with them in June at the vice president's request, and the staff met with them, and they asked for a few months to get their fee under them and get some recommendations together, and we promised them that when they were ready, the domestic council would sit and hear their recommendations.
I hope he gets it for you.
Well, I thank you.
Thank you.
Well, I guess I'm going to call it over.
I don't want to stand there.
That's a very important thing.
It seems to me that we're not talking in terms of some of the press and about lousy stories, lousy from our standpoint, frankly, even though some of them say otherwise.
Well, it's a victory for the administration, and it'll be paid, and so on.
Now, this has required both of us.
I think the whole attitude of the mayor's meeting in Honolulu in the National League of Cities was that conciliation is the thing if we're going to get this thing through in principle and that the details of your original proposal would
accommodate to some of the things that chairman mills had in mind and everybody's very encouraged and optimistic about the the attitudes on the part of the administration and the chairman mills if something good is going to come out of this for the units of government
give Wilbur a call, I mean, after, uh, after he had his, uh, and, uh, maybe tomorrow, and, uh, and, and fill him in on this meeting so that I know that we were working together on advancing for him.
Hello?
Yeah.
Hello.
How are you this morning?
Yeah, how's my favorite, uh,
Incidentally, do you think Arkansas has a chance against Tennessee after what Tennessee did to Tennessee?
No, no, you've got a great pastor, though.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's the thing in that Tennessee thing.
Let me tell you why I called you.
I thought that there was a lousy story in the paper this morning to the effect that Mills and...
finally have to cave in the pressure from this and that on British and so forth.
I want you to know I don't look at it that way at all.
It seems to me that what is happening here, that, and I told everybody around this shop, I guess I'm going to use this to recognize the governor, the mayor, the county officials, that
We have to work together.
We have to get on some things and do get on some things.
And in the end, we've given some relief.
Is that on the proper line?
Because I think we just mustn't have this idea that this is a fight between the administration and Congress because, frankly, we don't have the votes down there.
You've got the votes and you know them.
Right, right.
All right, I'll get each other one and, uh, and help you.
Good.
Yeah.
Yeah, I know.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
Now on the, on the regular charter thing, is it, how does it, what are the prospects on that now, would you say?
Yeah.
Good.
That'll be great.
Maybe you should put it on the first row.
Good, good.
That'll get it out of the way.
What do you think, and I don't, I haven't really followed the Senate, because I really have to wait now.
What's going to happen over there?
What will you do with your, what will you do with the record sharing?
They will, well, the thing is...
I told Judge Burns that I thought that you and me, you just did a terrific job.
I mean, that Christmas treaty came over from the Senate.
The way you thought you handled that was beautiful.
But the point is, can you do the same thing here in the event the Senate adds a lot of goodies here on Reckonshire?
If they come back, you'll never recognize your baby, right?
Well, two of them, they've got responsible people that will ascend, unless you care.
Yeah.
First class, right?
Yeah, I used to have ulcers.
I didn't usually do that.
Yeah.
Right.
Well, let me say this.
I want it clearly understood that when you want to work with me, you know that I... We understand.
I mean, after all, you've got to take your position.
You've got to take ours.
But I want to work with you on this thing.
And if you find any of our people that are getting into trouble on this, that we're getting out of line, you let me know or have John or somebody.
Would you do that?
Sure.
Sure.
Yes, that's very important.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I see your point, yeah.
Well, what would a motion, let me ask, what would a motion read the message do?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I think we can work that out, okay.
Fine.
I'll get the word.
I'll get back to you this afternoon.
OK. Fine.
But that's your advice, is it?
You'd say no.
OK. All right.
Well, many thanks.
Fine.
And Kat Agnew just met with all these folks out in Hawaii, all these Chinese citizens.
And they were extremely pleased.
And he may be in touch with you later.
Fine.
Fine.
Yeah.
Mr. President, Mayor Luther is a great loser of any analysis of credit for what took place at that meeting.
He's really created a great spirit of cooperation among the League of Cities people.
And Sam LaSalle, who's the mayor of Atlanta, has taken over from Dick.
They're working very close together, and you'd think there's an exceptional spirit there, John.
I think there's going to be a good implementing device for us in carrying out the joint wishes of the administration and the Congress.
And I suggested at our meeting today, and after I mentioned at the outset, in view of our congressional relations,
After all, Mills and Johnny Burns have had honest, you know, disagreements about this thing on the matter of principle.
Now, I want to say that Nelson, I bring it up, is the first item of business.
Any less of the thing that we're working with, the Ways and Means Committee.
Do you agree with that?
Yes, I certainly do.
And I think he's been very wise in calling in the representatives of the same groups we're meeting with today to get their thoughts before he came out with his package, which accommodates to his principles and still tries to get somewhere near what we've proposed.
I've never seen quite the benign spirit that I saw at an intergovernmental meeting.
They were really quite constructive all the way through.
Well, Ed Harper and his group did a great job out there, too.
Thank you.