Conversation 652-005

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Chuckles gets it out of the way.

Yeah.

You get that all the way from this evening thing.

I'll get that out of the way.

Well, we've got another state of the union out of the way.

It was excellent, Mr. President.

I got back in time, and I've got a TV in my office, and I quickly turned on Channel 4.

I mean, it was commentary by Paul Duke and Herb Capitole.

Paul Dukes said that the President's presentation of his expectations in Congress was valid, that he ought to get what he said he ought to get, and he was lying not to give him a big package, but to talk about welfare reform and revenue sharing, and that in all probability he'd get those.

He said reorganization he would not get with the possible exception of one of the four proposals he didn't specify.

He said he thought the chances were less than 50-50, but that...

Byron had to get some of that stuff.

They didn't.

Capo and Paul Duke didn't talk about that.

Then I quickly turned to Channel 5, and I asked Hugh Sidey, Charlie Bartlett.

I had a young black woman whom I had never been recognized.

No, news person.

But I got just a little bit of Channel 5, and Hugh Sidey emphasized the politics, the excellent politics that Charlie Bartlett said.

Bartlett was complimentary.

He said, the president is not running against the Democrats.

He's running against the 60s, and we all have bad memories of the 60s.

And he said, it's a very sound and a very wise thing to do.

And then Sidi came in and said, well, we're not saying that the president is responsible for cooling the campuses and cooling the cities and so forth.

And Bartlett said, well, the record is there, but where otherwise, they'd be saying it's the president's fault.

Then I turned quickly to Channel 9, to CBS.

You really love it.

Well, I got back just in time, and my secretary was watching my commentary, and she was making notes for me on the commentary, and I got back before the commentary was over.

The commentary was good.

They said that the language was not as stimulating.

I think what somebody said is a state-of-the-art message a year ago when the president called for a great revolution, a new American revolution, and called and used the phrase that today's language was more moderate, more realistic, and probably much more effective.

You really, in general, CBS rather gave us a hell of a bit.

Early on, he said that it was very smart politics that you had the inept Democratic leadership on the defensive.

Moderate, non-aggressive, bipartisan talent that you scored.

excuse me, points, he was very comfortable.

He's Bill Lawrence.

Do you think it was his, you know, in terms of since it didn't have these strong phrases?

Do you think, would you call it a strong speech or a weak speech?

I don't have to hear Lawrence.

In fact, it's a weak speech.

It's a very strong speech.

It's exactly the kind of speech the President should have given.

And exactly the points that he should make

clearly lays out the platform, which is his accomplishments, which he must run this year, none of it will make any difference except the economy.

He says that the election is going to be decided on results, not rhetoric.

And nothing anybody says is going to matter.

The only thing that matters is the economy.

And did he also say that the economy is the only obstacle to the president's re-election?

He said that that's the only possible obstacle to the president's re-election.

I would hate him a lot if the counter was very good.

Lou Geulich has an interesting thing on the AP wire.

He says President Nixon combined the call for bipartisanship in foreign affairs today with an historical comparison, which Democrats are likely to find unflattering.

The interesting thing is that I get the biggest kick out of his presence.

as you probably expected, your biggest applause line was local control, local school.

Yeah.

Was it?

It wasn't?

It was.

Well, I thought it was big.

But then Bob and each man seated next to one another here in the forest from 68, sat there listening, and neither one started to applaud, and then each kind of went like this, waiting if the other was going to applaud, and then finally they realized how sustained the applause was, so they belatedly joined in the applause.

Husky did a couple of times, and Humphrey held back.

They were as restrained as we were expecting them to be.

CBS's, what I'll say, assures analysis was that your biggest applause bomb was the West Coast Dockstrap.

And I got it every time.

And he went on and said that this show was the move of a congressman, that you'd really scored on that one.

may mean that the president will now send to the Congress some legislation to deal with this problem.

We've had it there for two years.

That's why Hubert and Husky, neither one of them looked at a finger on it.

The docs tracked it.

Oh, sir.

Teddy, you've got to know that.

Teddy's out there clapping everything.

Whenever he heard a patter of applause, he clapped it.

You just, you scored so beautifully on that, because that's what a CBS commentator's going on to score.

So you three times came back to point out that you had lived that, and therefore that was very much in your mind.

And how you really scored and how you really, and now the Congress have a defense with it.

And how responsive the public is to that issue.

We've got to be sure that what they've prepared for tomorrow is good.

I don't have a bunch of bland crap.

No, I love it.

I haven't seen it yet, Chuck, let me look at it.

It's not ready.

President went through some gimmick today, you know, of like seeing Governor Roussos or anything, isn't it?

Sure, I think we ought to figure a way to keep this one going every single day.

But you didn't.

I didn't today.

I don't think they're going to have a governor.

What's his name, McCall?

McCall?

Yeah, what's the question?

Is Governor Roussos?

No.

and then I wouldn't see them go.

The villains would go.

It seems to me that you can't get two stories out of anything.

That's right.

You've got to make it 20-day, let it rot, otherwise it appears that you're just getting it back.

And tomorrow, we'll put up a damn good statement on the floor in the building.

Well, you know, the three of us, the call should be made all over the country, and others say they've been called and they're all for it.

Bill Barr said it was an outstanding speech.

This challenge to Congress is well-deserved and one I hope will be accepted.

The Democratic presidential hopefuls who have turned this session into a political rally are going to have to stretch a bit to blindfold the President's program.

Scott said the Congress must meet the challenge to approve domestic programs offered by President Nixon a year ago.

President Nixon has put it on the line.

He has detailed what must be done for all Americans.

and students in the property taxpayer usually is a forgotten person that he would have voted the national sales tax as a relief measure.

Good.

We should have put them in a position where we let them vote for the board.

We used to ever do something.

All you did today was to only cut it out so that they can't report something.

If you own that issue, that's yours.

Yes, Capo's commentary on that was to the effect that your reference to the...

McElroy Commission and the advisory committee on the government of ACIR and the fact that they'll be submitting their reports indicates that you have shown that you're concerned about this issue.

You're going to be presenting a proposal.

At a time too late for the Congress to act, but it will be very apparent to the country that you've taken the initiative.

I was just a little alarmed by that whole thing.

He got in a buzz and he turned over something to Hubert about it.

He didn't exactly understand what you were getting at, I don't think.

Well, you didn't understand what he was going to do about it.

He's a member of the committee.

I know.

He may have been asking Hubert if he was a member.

I don't know.

Well, he hasn't attempted a meeting in a year.

No.

Maki has not attempted a meeting.

Have you?

I agree with you.

I mean, in our governmental relations for more than a year.

He's got a very good line.

Let us have our debates, let us have our honest differences, but let us join in keeping the national interest first, said Nixon.

And applause filled the House chamber, crowded with members of Congress, the Cabinet, the entire High Command, and the government.

We got it.

I thought it was very, very, very good.

Well, it does not make any kind of news and so forth.

Great contrast in what you had to say at the conclusion and what Teddy Kennedy said Monday night at the press club.

It was a phrase about this being a good country.

That got a great ball.

That was a great thumbs up.

That's what you've done a lot of times, and it's good to use it here.

Well, it fits you.

It fits you.

The old Kennedy must be a compliment.

Kennedy must be saying everything the country's in hell to shake.

It has a different connotation also than great or number one.

That's right.

It has the quality.

Big, strong, but we're good.

Good, and that's it.

It's a good theme.

And you registered it beautifully.

Because you had another note that I thought was tremendously important, and that is that

The thing which may be otherwise so much of the public attitude towards government and politicians, you talked about people having confidence in the ability of government.

You laid it right out and said they're all in this room.

They're all on track.

They're all here.

We're ahead.

If we can't do it, by God, the people aren't going to trust us.

That brought them right ahead.

Brought them into the boat.

Done very well.

Extremely well.

Wright Patton said it's difficult to take this new State of the Union address seriously.

He discounted Nixon's forecast of a new prosperity without war and said it's obvious President Nixon would lose.

Wright Patton.

Oh, of course.

President Nixon will leave office with an all-time record for misleading forecasts.

I think we might shake him off tomorrow, don't you think?

Terry Ford.

First National President said it was the most challenging such speech ever made to a joint chat session in the country.

And the people of the Congress linked arms with him to build a better America despite the political pressures of the presidential election year.

Our boys are really doing very well on their move.

As you said, it's quite good.

What do you think?

Excellent.

I said quite good.

I thought it was very good.

Margaret Smith, George Hayden, were there.

I watched them.

Margaret looked pretty good.

She was on the aisle without the cane.

That's right.

She looked good while she was running.

Yeah.

She was over 70.

I don't know.

She was.

They kind of dottered down to Margaret.

I must say that she's, they did, they seem to be really, Hugh was very proud of the fact that he kicked them in the balls.

And Mr. President, Hugh has been sending me messages

from the Pennsylvania papers.

He underlines, said Senator Scott is delighted that observers have noted his greater leadership capacities for support of the president.

And there's a piece he sent me, three of them, in which he said that he looks forward with great enthusiasm to carrying Pennsylvania for the president this year.

Scott has been speaking not only with pride about his legislative work, but in anticipation of his political work.

And he put himself

And, of course, the mood is very good, Mr. President.

We had breakfast, Bill Kimmel and I had breakfast here yesterday morning at the conference standing room with Scott Ford and Griffin and Les Ahrens.

And then they came back to my office and sat around the table and looked at the draft of the Griffin version of the State of the Union.

They made some recommendations.

Ray incorporated some of them.

So they felt really a part of it.

And their mood is excellent.

They're anxious to help and to do battle on the other side.

I'm sure they're about ready to start up on the recess.

Well, that's great.

Fuck.

It's very hard to get a Congress like this.

It looks here and there.

Oh, I think if you had gone out with a very lofty speech about all the things you wanted to accomplish and all the initiatives that you just created, I think it was beautifully done.

Well, you were complimentary to them, too.

Bud was the one guy who caught it.

He said what the president said.

And he was so skillful when he set up it.

Absolutely, of course, I'm going to show you how good he is at getting through it.

But this was a very clever bulletin.

He was pointing things.

A clever bulletin is very good.

They're going to say that later.

It's a political truth, by the way.

How is it?

How do you get through?

It's going to be hard to make a political thing out of this to the people who saw it and to the people who were at the exit.

There's no political excerpt in it.

I agree.

You know, anything they pull out for the news tonight, everybody saw the speech to begin with.

It was a high call to statesmanship.

And it's 30 minutes' call to high statesmanship.

I was amazed at the state of Detroit.

It hasn't been Detroit in 20 years.

Shortest in 11.

I heard 11.

Or is this the 12th?

I guess it was the 12th.

I heard 12th.

Shortest was about 30, after you said you got in.

You wanted 34, didn't you?

Down to 34.

This finally worked.

I sent it right on the nose of 30.

Yes, sir.

Just right.

Perfect.

Right on the nose.

To cut out some of those gems and everybody.

What if you had all the gems you could use and they were all you could use more of?

You've made your point, but it's an impression to me, right?

I still think I love that paragraph about not saying we're evil because we are not perfect.

We are corrupt because we are not pure.

All that we have done to build America goes for naught because it's not done.

That's a real thing.

Very inspirational.

Well, it's inspiration.

It's very positive, but it's a hell of a good kick at the head of the people at the same time.

That's right.

We go around and moan and say these things, but we're all out of shape.

Of course, when we're out, we say it's all in shape.

But it wasn't out of shape.

It is better.

You know, even in some, though, they say the country is cooler, but we can't take any credit.

But you're right, if it weren't for it, it's like Vietnam.

So we have only two kills, and they say we can't take any credit.

Well, what the hell are they going to do?

500,000 are going to be home to the makers of what they've done.

Maybe we should, maybe we wouldn't.

Bob indicated that Congress would be taking a recess pretty soon.

You'd be interested in Bob Griffin's comment as he concluded reading me.

10 pages quadruple or triple spaced of the written version of the State of the Union.

Bob said, boy, this is a lot of good Lincoln Bay speech material in here.

And that's right.

You're going to get it.

If these guys just take stuff from the State of the Union, too, if these guys will take this, and they can take it from the State of the Union, most people won't hurt it.

Most of it will just take it.

Frankly, use it as a basic speech.

I'm going to like to be told things aren't all that bad.

We are a little better.

I thought we, I was very surprised at the strong national defense law.

We got as good a response.

A strong response.

That was for other reasons.

Well, it looked good.

All people are.

Yeah.

Well, it has to be.

But at least we won't get in enough pressure.

There's enough to go on.

Jack Brown said he was watching Fulbright through the speech.

He had planned to watch Muskie and Humphrey because he thought that would be interesting, but they were so deadpan.

It was very dull to watch them, so he watched Fulbright.

He said all through the speech, Fulbright sat there with just hatred just pouring out of his eyes at the President.

Jack said, I swear to God he was.

And he was just venom in there.

And didn't applaud once on any line that he'd be doing.

Never.

And just he had to do his thing.

Now he is John Cooper, who was a lovely call, but pretty much massive.

But he just despised this program because he's so partisan.

He made it totally ridiculous.

John has walked out of meetings of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations in the last four months because he said, I don't have to be exposed to that bitterness.

Mr. President, here's what you're going to hear in your State of the Union message.

People should get what they work for and were able.

work for what they get.

Now, that's the line that you're using.

I don't have it exactly right, but that you're going to hear.

Where they can, they should work for what they get.

In more Lincoln Bay speeches, you're going to hear that one.

That's right.

That's great.

That's a great cheer to hear.

And it's great for Reagan.

Did we miss read it, that you kind of downplayed the family assistance?

No.

No?

No.

I said all the right things.

I know what's going to happen.

We aren't going to get it all.

We're going to get a trial program.

That's good.

I'd like to try a trial program.

Let's find out.

And the conservatives will not find that so unfathomable.

They'll say, we're fearful that this will lead to a full-fledged program, but they'll be pleased that it's less than that.

No, they're big bitches.

If they want to try a program, they can just fulfill it.

Yeah.

Anyway, we'll talk about it.

We've got quite a year to go now.

I think the things we've just played on for a few months, I don't know how long it's going to be, for about four or five months, keep coming back to the business.

They are obstructions.

They are partisan.

They are putting party-versus-countryside, party-versus-countryside, and attacking over and over again.

You know what I mean?

But play it like that.

We expect them to be conciliatory.

We expect them to be helpful.

We expect them to be bipartisan.

We're going to assume that we're doing that.

Set it up so that in about the first of June, we can then turn up.

and say, all right, they've been here all these months.

I would put a tougher guy, two or three tough guys, who would start keeping track of how long they're there and how long they're gone, and then say, we have been here, we should get up every day in the floor of the house, and one should get up every day in the floor of the house.

At the open, his one-minute remarks say, we have now been here, Mr. Speaker, or Mr. President, as Congress has been in session with the record children, we have not passed one of the 90 proposals the President has laid before us.

We have been here in either case.

We have now been here six times.

We have not, when did we report it?

We have been here seven times.

We have been here eight times.

You know, we have been here this time.

And we have been out.

We have been here nine times.

Eventually it will catch on.

You see what I mean?

Build up a little gimmick.

That's a very good idea.

And then, every day, he gets up and keeps making the same speech.

We've been here this many days.

We haven't passed one.

And then sits down.

You can do it easily in the House, but at one minute.

In the Senate, it's probably as easy.

Well, the Senate and you, Mr. Gilbert, let me say it.

Partly about every day.

They have their morning hour.

Yeah.

Every other day.

Yeah, they have a morning hour.

It's limited to 15 minutes now.

They ask you to get up and have one guy every day, no more than one, who will get himself known.

Pick some guy who says, I will know that they have been here.

The president is not going to propose.

We have not taken action on that.

You can hear this.

This Congress has been in session.

This Congress has been in session for so many days.

I didn't even kill one of them.

And then, about the first version, you start building it up.

And then, you see, what we may end up getting is running against the Congress.

We'll poll first to see whether the Congress is still, is considered to be bad or good.

If it's considered to be bad, we'll kick the lid on the cheats on them.

Are you safe on that?

Well, you're not sure.

They can surprise you.

It's pretty hard for them to come out being good and bold.

Well, that's true.

But I think we also would have to balance it against what you said, if they respond to it.

Oh, oh, no, no, no, no.

If they respond, we have a different game.

They're going to brag about the fact that we got some things through the Democratic Party, and we're going to work for that.

That should be our line.

I think the line should be that we haven't proposed, you know, that line where I said I had proposed, I had not made any of the proposals in the traditional way of laying things that I know you can't pass.

have, this is with them, the ability of Congress to enact, and the ability of the budget to finance, and it's bipartisan in the interest of the nation.

I'll get off your asses and do it.

Your suggestion, Mr. President, for a timetable for conciliation and a point of confrontation is perhaps a little more generous than mine.

You start it.

Well, we'll have to see what happens, but I think June is giving them ample time.

It may come a little sooner than that.

I think it probably will come a little sooner.

June is a man of the Buda Convention.

But let's see what they do.

Well, we will have a number of candidates, and I'll have to select and advance the best candidates in the House and the best candidates in the Senate.

And Divine doesn't have as much sense of humor as perhaps somebody else.

The thing that was good about Bob Dole was his sense of humor that he always put into his thing.

Yeah.

Yeah, let's just do this.

Let's do this every day and have it start.

Now we've been in two days.

We've been in three days.

I mean, I don't expect it.

I wait a week.

We've been in a week.

We've been in seven days.

It sounds better rather than a week.

We've been in seven days.

This Congress has been in session for seven days.

Even though they go out, we've been in session for seven days.

We've been in desk for 14 days.

This Congress has been in session for 21 days.

This Senate has 22 days of now passed with no actions.

Twenty-three days, and I'll pass with no action.

Twenty-four days, and I'll pass with no action.

If you watch it, we'll try them off the wall with action.

They'll become extremely sensitive to it.

They'll want to get something the hell out of it.

They'll defend themselves.

They'll have to defend themselves.

They start out on the defensive line, and he drives them to the wall.

In fact, you might be starting to move in here within a week.

Wait a week.

Say, I waited a week.

What the hell?

I've given you a week.

You're not working.

You've been here seven days.

You've been here eight days.

The thing we want to get our troops on now is when that legislation is up tomorrow, the Ducks are going to just hit them every day.

They're not going to want to act on it.

The kind of legislation we're given, they're going to want to vote me against and get them to do it.

That's not striking anything.

So we've got them now.

Okay.

That was a great job.

President, I'll be talking about the...

I know the Republican leaders would like very much to come in on Tuesday morning.

I don't know what your titular has looked at for next week.

Let me say that it may happen Tuesday morning.

But in any event, I won't have it.

But whether we – I'll know Monday morning for sure.

That's something that may come up.

It will require something to do with it.

I'll see them, let me say it.

I'll see them next week.

The leaders will be seen next week, but the meeting may not be Tuesday.

But I'm not sure because there's another meeting.

You'll know when we hear about it.

Otherwise, we'll have a meeting.

We'll have a meeting next week.

We're not sure about that necessarily.

We're not sure about Tuesday.

I don't want to see the leaders meeting next week.

Thank you, Mr. President.

I don't even need to, but I suggest that I'll make more.

I'm not sure you've got the right guy in that play.

I had the idea that, if you know, basically Bobby King, this is not a big thing, but you could take a ball like Sayu Lahore and put a ball like Safar and so on.

And he'll write that right off the bat.

You know what I mean?

It's a nice little story.

It was a copy.

Moore, I think, as we have found, is not an operator.

He's not very... That isn't his position.

Do you agree or not?

Depends.

Basically, you're right.

Moore is a wonderful thing.

It's not awesome, but that's not always...

They never come...

This one, though, he probably gets parts of it.

He does, too.

That may be all right, too.

We should carry on.

No 15,000 word messages would guide you.

It really is.

That's everybody.

They're talking about that, you know, the genius of that, because you cycle the press, you give yourself a chance to make the speech you want to make, and still to say all the stuff that you want to have printed.

They can't argue about lack of completeness or

leaking the issue out, or anything like that, because it's all there.

Of course, if they really do what we had in mind, they could get them to be killed.

I'd like to have done it that way, not have been there.

Not dependent on the Congress, though.

You can start that next year and go on that prime time television.

Why go on that?

Because you've got to lay the groundwork for it now.

Because you've laid the separation of a written message and a spoken message, now you can make the point that your spoken message is related to the people.

You don't know about the written message you sent to the Congress.

My state of the art session is...

grand occasion it does happen people like it as an event sure it's a hell of an event for the back there but there's only what a thousand people there or something i know yeah

Oh, that's where the country goes, I don't know.

Well, I think it's kind of the writing of the country that those who see it on television, you know, fish bait, bringing the people down the aisle.

All that business.

If you aren't taking life, it's human.

It wasn't just his humor.

He did a good job.

He didn't know what I actually said, but I mentioned it to him.

He likes it.

He told me he was good at the other stuff, but he doesn't like it.

He told me he's good at the universe.

You know, one thing to do is to kill a goddamn person and not make them.

There's not much to shoot at.

Is there not?

They have to...

They have to admit that he did exactly what you just did.

There isn't any part to shoot at.

And you got your points over.

You said what you wanted to say.

All these things make the...

What is it?

Facing the back of the couch here, calling for a non-political approach.

Well, it's really going to settle there, though, it's 59.89.

That's...

I think we're good.

That's a pretty hard one, though.

The content of everything.

When they all know the secret, they don't change and use what they're put in for.

Well, and they know how the drug companies and the VC have been playing around with their talks with Senators and all that.

You know, all this monkey business.

It goes on all the time.

And you said you have a secret, Tom.

No, it's a dead end.

They're trying to insult the fact that he isn't going to resign.

He's struggling with the situation.

He hasn't seen through it yet.

In other words, he doesn't get off this.

This will come a long way toward the goal.

Because then he will look at it in a more rational way.

He'll realize that stomping around and so forth isn't going to have any impact.

And he just doesn't have that option.

Thank you.