Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Vietnam War and People's Republic of China

19:38Henry obviously did a superb job, as we heard he had done.
19:47A lot of good stuff out of that, but the thing is though,
20:07It's because the substance of all this is so complex, that there's, well, in a way that's looking for revenge, because it's, they are jumping out, the opponents are jumping out, and the things they don't understand is that they're getting shot down.
20:26Yeah, I think you're right.
20:31Like the police, the home police comment, he says what the trouble is, is the officer sees fire,
20:43They've already rejected that.
20:45They won't take it.
20:48But that's...
20:50They've done this on a bunch of these.
20:51Looked like McGovern's saying, you know, they wouldn't... You know, but they did demand the overthrow, too.
20:57Henry, he has.
20:59He's shot at that.
21:02Big, big, big... How did you get along with Brock?
21:05Yeah.
21:06And you explained the thing, and he understood it.
21:09Yep.
21:10You told him, and you said this is not, that I was just doing this because I felt it.
21:16I was not trying to, but I just wanted to be sure he took the political signals.
21:22Did I understand perfectly?
21:26And he said, when he checked, it was very good.
21:30It wasn't sometimes, you know, you can refill it very easily.
21:34And it went out very well.
21:35He said, on the airplanes, he said, there is no problem.
21:39He said, I don't even know why he needed to mention it, but let me check.
21:42He called Cisco, didn't tell him I was there.
21:44He just said, I want to check again on this airplane below here.
21:48Cisco said we're delivering two a month, every month, except July of this year and January of next year, and the Israelis understand why we're just one store in those two months.
21:58I looked at the back of Henry and he said, that's right, there is no... What did Henry want?
22:01He wanted to memorize that.
22:02Well, there was a problem, and he wanted to use the phrase, because Cisco uses it as a bargaining counter, he just wants to be sure he's kept to the firemen.
22:10I just wanted to make sure I could call the Israelis out, and I told the old lady, and I just weren't on the record.
22:18And he understood that, and understood the political point.
22:22He said there's no problem.
22:23First of all, we can't get into the conferences for a couple weeks.
22:26Secondly, we may not get into them at all, because Sadat probably isn't going to be able to get into them, because of the student uprisings.
22:33At home.
22:34He said, what we're really after here is to keep it looking like there's some hope of a conference.
22:39And once we get that, we get into conference, and he said, there's absolutely no problem in having these conferences go anywhere.
22:46They're the type that we can get started and turn recess for two weeks, we can install them, we can hamstring them.
22:52We can make sure that nothing happens or everything happens.
22:55We can build an artificial impasse that you can then go to Russia and break, or, you know, anything.
23:04Henry, I...
23:30Look, Henry on that overreacts all the time.
23:34It's every time they turn around, they aren't getting the planes, they aren't doing this, they aren't doing that.
23:41And it's because the Israelis are a bunch of goddamn Jews that are raising false things.
23:46They read out, you know.
23:49And they never quit.
23:50That's right.
23:54And that... Good.
23:56That...
23:59Bill would like to do a press conference.
24:03Yes, he is.
24:06It's not a press conference, it's a media conference of some kind that they're having.
24:11And I said that you were hopeful that he'd do it for television, because we were purposely, you know, Henry's was not, and we needed a spokesman on TV by today.
24:22And he said, fine, he'd be glad to do that.
24:25And he had the
24:27Input stuff, and he... See, Scallion's a damn good bridge there, if we could only get Henry there.
24:32Ha!
24:32I know, because Bill will do anything Scallion tells him to.
24:36Or has to do.
24:40And, uh... Henry, they couldn't have...
24:44I've got to do this.
24:49These people will help Henry.
24:51That's... What people will help.
24:54Scallion...
24:56I talked to him last night about the
25:20I talked to some of the people at the dinner, and they said that most of them heard it, but they didn't believe it was you.
25:36We probably, see that was a problem at dinner, what we probably should have done is she should have come on and said, we've been informed that the president is calling Dr. Kissinger.
25:49So that everybody heard it coming here, but he's making the call to Dr. Kisner.
25:53And then just let Henry make up the count and say, yes, Mr. President.
25:56It's all right.
25:57It's all right.
25:58It got him.
25:59It got him.
26:00It got him.
26:01It was covered in paper.
26:06John, early on in the same day, I said something about you that thought maybe going over would have had no effect here.
26:14And he said, Jesus, he...
26:16His view was that any association with that dinner was bad.
26:20Even Henry's?
26:22Well, no.
26:23Not Henry's, but any association by the president.
26:25Well, yeah, Henry's or his.
26:27It's one of those typical things.
26:29He said, this town is sick, and they are obsessed with having these gridiron-type dinners where everybody has to come and pretend they're having a good time.
26:40Frank Church apparently did a very, very vicious...
26:54And he did a superb job.
26:57They all said that he had some marvelous gadgets.
27:04He got some.
27:05And apparently some very good material.
27:10And of course he delivers well.
27:11He's a natural comedian.
27:14He does a great job.
27:16He's got a strong voice.
27:19And the accent helps him in place with that and all that.
27:22The church apparently was in very vicious taste and cohesion.
27:28So he came up with a show.
27:29He said, at least we can be sure that if the China trip turns out to be a bust, Henry will know how to handle it.
27:35You know, that kind of just, ah, dirty stuff.
27:45So Henry got up and said,
27:47Open Bicent Protocol requires that I precede the senator on the program, because he ranks me.
27:55But apparently, a planner to the program reversed the protocol for very good reasons, because they knew that it would be impossible for me to... Because they knew I wouldn't be able to commit suicide after I'd been assassinated, or something like that, some twist like that.
28:23But I guess that Henry did it.
28:25So he did a good job.
28:27What the hell difference does it make?
28:28It's worth five seconds of his time, not five seconds of his time.
28:31Well, we've got the word around, and I'm going to go to some special time now.
28:38That's good.
28:41Well, we're still, you know, on that question of what you're going to do as far as... Well, what's the matter?
28:49Who's pregnant with me?
28:50Come on, because I was lying.
28:53The only, nobody's pressing for you to go except for the Poe question.
29:01That's the only thing then.
29:06Well, that just doesn't seem to make much sense.
29:20Sorry.
29:20Go ahead.
29:20They've got very good water.
29:22Good.
29:23I'm not going to sue them, but I'm saying they are nice.
29:25We haven't told them yet.
29:28I don't think we have.
29:31But I don't think we have.
29:34The Trumpers are, you know, they're good people, but they're dangerous.
29:38But what makes this is that they're worse than the others.
29:40And the White House corresponds.
29:43Of course, that's definitely, I just don't want, I don't want to say they're weak.
29:47Bring it out on me.
29:48There's no appeal on that.
29:54What's the date here?
29:55The date is April 8th.
29:57Unfortunately.
29:58I suppose there's something to be said regarding the people around here and how they are doing.
30:22I think we can sustain the argument of not doing anything.
30:30And I don't understand why Poe's really got... You know, after all that... Well, the signal, I suppose, that Poe's been a loyal guy, I suppose.
30:49You have to sit there through unmitigated hell.
30:53I've done it so well every other time.
30:55I really have.
30:57It hits on me every time.
30:58And with no grace.
30:59They've never treated me with grace.
31:02You know, the Democrats, they've treated me with grace on the ship.
31:04Again, I just don't go anymore.
31:07I don't like the press.
31:09I really don't, you know.
31:10I don't like the bad guys.
31:12You should go there and act as if you did.
31:14The only...
31:18What they've suggested is not that you go to the dinner, but that you're towing on the program, but then you do a drop-by to pay a little tribute to Poe.
31:32But don't sit through the show.
31:47We don't need to bother with it now.
31:50No, we've got plenty of time.
31:52I work on the assumption that you're not going.
31:59That's good.
32:00I'm not sure.
32:29You think it's a good idea to have Henry do the press conference?
32:54Yes.
32:56So I...
32:59It was good.
32:59It was very good, and I think it was very good not to have him on television, although there's a strong argument the other way that he should have been on, because he would have been effective, and he would have.
33:08No.
33:09But we don't need it.
33:10Oh, yeah, they had voiceover and everything.
33:13They had all they needed.
33:14A lot of mystery there.
33:15A little more mystery.
33:18Let Bill go on.
33:19He'll be on the tube now tonight.
33:21Yes, sir.
33:24Bryce's point is very good, I think, which is that you don't want to create the impression that Henry Kissinger is ruling the world.
33:34And you can go, well, but you can get to that, if he's doing all these dazzling things, and then also if the guy he's not talking about, he's got to be on the top of the class.
33:47If he's on TV, he's on TV as the regular one, and we're not going to put him out there, Bob.
34:01On the other hand, if he had gone on TV for that, in the first place, if we allowed TV, they would have wanted to carry it live.
34:08Sure.
34:09But they didn't come, which would have been bad.
34:11They would have run in for hours on the news.
34:14Yeah.
34:14Ten minutes, probably.
34:16It is fine.
34:22This way we've got our story.
34:28And while he did a superb job, you can't be sure that he does that good a job.
34:32And there are things that he does that you wouldn't want on TV, and I'm sure there were in this one.
34:36And it wouldn't, overall it wouldn't, and they would take the things too.
34:41Where he gets, you know, a little bit emotional.
34:45He gets emotional, or he tangles sometimes.
34:48And it isn't really completely direct, and it's all the time the way you are.
34:58Bill, he seemed to be in good luck.
35:01The Henry had a good father.
35:18He talked to him about Vietnam and that kind of thing.
35:28Well, you know, Samson, if you just can't hide the Vice President, I'm sure he's got something to agree with.
35:38Oh, we've got...
35:40The Vice President's in a strange room.
35:43We've got to figure out what to do.
35:45It's because it's time-bothered.
35:48No, earlier it was...
35:51The VP is really chomping and digging a lot of stuff now, too, wasn't it?
35:57He takes this sort of standard line, and John said the leadership then was exactly consistent with it, which is, I know, it's just policy now, we've got to be behind it, because if you'd only talked to me about it beforehand, you know, you wouldn't make this terrible, he said.
36:12And that's sort of the way he goes at it.
36:16Yes.
36:17And, well, it's a line that he took right at the beginning, when he wanted to be in here.
36:22Yep.
36:22Discussing it.
36:23Yep.
36:26And that, I'm sure, is the frustrating thing to him, that he hasn't adjusted to in that job, is his role as a policymaker.
36:40The other thing Bryce said in that, when I talked to him, in his thing on congressional leaders, is that the problem is that Agnew is nonsensitive.
36:48He doesn't understand the relationship with the president and Congress.
36:53And he thinks, when you get in a meeting like that, that's our game, and we're all just sitting there working things out, like we would in a SAP meeting or something, you know.
37:01And doesn't look at it as an adversarial relationship, that even our own leaders supposedly are the leaders.
37:08have with the executive.
37:11And that he just, you know, he never goes up to the Hill anymore.
37:14He doesn't preside at all.
37:17Ever.
37:17Really?
37:18Oh, never.
37:20I'm sure I'm right on that.
37:21That was true for, you know, something like that.
37:24You know, even the days I was president, I ran for president.
37:28I didn't do it every time, but if I was ever in Miles' place, I'd go over to the Senate.
37:35You know, he just started as part of the job.
37:37Not for, not for, I don't believe.
37:40Now, he may once in a while go out and open and then leave.
37:44But I don't think he's even opening anymore.
37:46I think he's just written off that part of the job, which is of course the only part of it.
37:54He doesn't have, he doesn't have real debt and wealth.
38:00His point is, he's too damn parochial, you know.
38:02He's a little whiny.
38:04That's his problem.
38:08Big mistake.
38:11Another thing that happened to me, John, is he's surrounded by people around him.
38:16Yeah.
38:16Who are always talking as if he has, you know what I mean.
38:18That's why he hates to be Buchanan, I used to think.
38:21He is, but worse than Buchanan, you see, because Buchanan at least is honest.
38:24But you know that he's a goddamn pervert, because people are horrible.
38:28The wine bitch.
38:34On the Republican governor's dinner, he has apparently taken that over, which properly he should have, but has decreed that there be no staff there.
38:43I don't think that's a good idea, unless you agree with it.
38:48In some of the people, the Orleans and Chelsea's that deal with the governor's ought to be at the dinner.
38:53Sure.
38:53With them.
38:54At least if we want to have them.
38:55Yeah.
38:56Yeah.
38:59But I think we've got to have a few of the seniors.
39:02Yeah.
39:02The people who have the money to give it to get out to them.
39:06Yeah.
39:07Irving Schultz, Weinberger.
39:12That's about it.
39:16It's good to have Weinberger anyway.
39:17Yeah.
39:18God damn him for being that way.
39:24That's terrible.
39:26They'd much rather park those cat members than they would one of those cat members.
39:30Absolutely.
39:30Well, there's no word that stuff comes in.
39:33But see, that's part of Agnes' thing of, he is supposed to be the one for the other.
39:38He's just the one.
39:38He sure may have pushed her out.
40:24You know, I agree with you, but I just want to be sure.
40:28We have so many disloyal people around here, even in the White House, that aren't with us philosophically, you know.
40:34And god damn it, we don't fire any of them, Bob.
40:37Now this is a good guy, this is, he was run so, all right, A on the hail him.
40:42And just, I'll be damn sure that we understand that I believe in loyalty.
40:46And, uh...
40:48We won the other side of that one.
41:15I don't care about which side.
41:17I'm not going to give that Hesford commission the opportunity to go in and harass businessmen.
41:23That's not going to happen.
41:25And we use every goddamn negro in the country.
41:27It's not going to happen.
41:29And, you know, I keep this line across, but I guess, you know, the poor old garment and the sapphire...
41:39Earl and the rest are under such horrible pressure.
41:42They fought that, and Barton's been sick and still a killer.
41:46Okay, it's fine.
41:48I'm going to veto it.
41:49That's just all there is to it.
41:51It's going to be like the 18-year-old voter and the rest of the things they talk about.
41:55I'm vetoing some bitches, and I don't care what the situation is, and it's not appealable.
42:01I will not discuss it, and I do not want to see the other side.
42:03Is that clear?
42:05I do not want to see it.
42:06That's a vicious, terrible, terrible piece of legislation.
42:11I made up my mind.
42:11I'm going to need it.
42:12I'm going to give it a little fight.
42:17We lose the liberals' mind.
42:18I'm going to need to make a few votes in the racial tax.
42:24Henry's asking for a meeting today with Grant Martin.
42:28No, I will not see Grant Martin.
42:30I've got to give guidance on how to direct his efforts.
42:33No, I haven't time, because I'm leaving immediately after this.
42:35As I told you, I'm going my way.
42:36So, this is just leaving Ohio.
42:41I've lost him there.
42:42I've got to hand him a guide.
42:45I don't like him very much.
42:48I don't mind him, but he's not for me.
42:49He doesn't need to see me.
42:50I've had him in the job.
42:51He's a foreign service man.
42:52He's not without.
42:52He has a fine job there.
42:54I've got that, and then I've got it.
42:56I've got it.
42:57But we're not going to do any more of that.
42:59That's just language.
43:00I'm not going to do any more.
43:01This is what they're saying.
43:02See, if there's anything I can do, there's nothing I can do.
43:05And where did he come from?
43:07He said he's come from the south.
43:11It's about the prime minister like yesterday.
43:13I've got to see him, but I don't need to see our ambassador.
43:15I don't have to see him.
43:17You know what?
43:21I really do love him.
43:23The substantive stuff he's got to do, which is his influence in the presidential elections, are stuff he's got to get from other people.
43:31Right, right, right.
43:37Are you doing today?
43:40Out there, fine.
43:41I was going to ask... How do you do?
43:45Hi, boss.
43:46Yeah, obviously.
43:47You know, that's the sort of joke that loses him.
43:49That's what they said.
43:51You know, he was so crude.
43:53Well, when he said, for Christ's sake, that Bob was fine, it was horrible.
43:59Were you there?
43:59No, no.
43:59Somebody said, for the son of a bitch, said that the peaking trip of the bus and how to handle it, Jesus Christ, that would not be done by a high school sophomore.
44:11Exactly.
44:11So crude.
44:12And then he said... You know what I mean?
44:15Take a guy like Jackie Gleason, who's a comic, but a clean comic.
44:20He would never use that word.
44:22Never.
44:23You know what I mean?
44:26And Paul Keith would, but not Gleason.
44:29And then there was...
44:30I mean, not because...
44:31It's hard to be dirty, but you don't have to be.
44:35Base.
44:36Just like a... As he said, it's no wonder...
44:43He said, you don't expect a Republican president to get along with Democratic India.
44:47You know, it's a cheap little shop.
44:51And it's the sort of thing that people titter at, but then they're embarrassed that the guy's doing it.
44:59I think that's right.
45:00And that was everybody's opinion, and he had come off very bad.
45:02So I actually, he was so partisan that I cut out the few cracks I had in a Democrat, except for one or two, and got it on a higher level, because I figured we'd get the benefits, not from cracking the Democrats, but from looking good.
45:19And because the whole theme of my speech was, at the end, that we needed unity and get-together.
45:30Art Buchwald was on the Today Show today, and they said that you write the church speech, and he in fact had written major parts of it.
45:41And he said, I only take credits for things that are good.
45:47He disavowed it.
45:50They ran a big part of it on the Today Show and on the CBS shows and my screenings.
46:08Did they get that Q&A finished?
46:12Yes.
46:12I have to be sure these things are done.
46:17I can't have the staff drop the ball.
46:19It's all done.
46:20I've seen a copy of it.
46:21It's gone.
46:22It's gone.
46:24Yes, that I happen to know.
46:27The rest are all going out this morning.
46:31I saw the whole rundown.
46:33You originally said you'd go from me, and we changed that to the hill that's going from Clark to the...
46:38Right.
46:39What I've done this morning, Mr. President, is I've had a call...
46:50Ted Elliott, the executive secretary, is saying we're not doing any more briefing here.
46:55And that the job of defending the program now is entirely in their court.
47:00That's what I told Bill yesterday, too.
47:02Good.
47:02And I said the same thing.
47:04And also, let me just add one sidebar that we would bother to talk about.
47:11We were thinking about your program, actually, how good it was.
47:16It was a good sidebar that you worked, because of course it got an enormous play in the news, but beyond that, beyond the fact that you worked, that allows you to, Chris is not a press conference, it's a medium, but he can feel that he's going to be on there.
47:32Much better.
47:34On balance, it was better.
47:36And the point is, your study just once over, which is what got managed.
47:40A couple of three points that I want to be sure he doesn't frankly back us off on.
47:47First, his comments are, he is stupid for operations.
47:53I haven't seen them.
47:56Well, what he said is that, he says that the reason that the North Vietnamese cannot accept this is because the president's system of ceasefire, and he knows they will not accept the ceasefire.
48:10Goddamnit, didn't Clifford himself advocate the ceasefire last year?
48:15Wasn't he one of the ones who did it?
48:16You've got to go out and check this.
48:18Check to see whether he did it, and then ask somebody now.
48:21Mr. President, it's a stupid point anyway, because the ceasefire they put into the goddamn plan, that's 10.7.
48:28And I know the point that you have made in your reading is that the ceasefire is not an issue, right?
48:37They object to a ceasefire before a settlement.
48:41We have agreed to have a ceasefire after a settlement.
48:48Which is their own formulation.
48:50So it's an absurd attack.
48:52And in fact...
48:53But somebody's got to say that just about the same time.
48:57I may step out at some point and say it, or let Ron say it, if he understands it.
49:02Ron's got to be prepared.
49:04Ron must be prepared on that point.
49:08That's a good one for Ron to say.
49:10It's good for him to take Clipper down.
49:13All right, but now how do we get this to him?
49:16I'll call him, because he may not understand this.
49:20Yeah, you didn't say it on the video.
49:21The factual fact on the way that it had gone, the one on the ceasefire, is that you're not going to say it.
49:29But we know that it is a news summary, and he's left himself hanging out there a mile.
49:33Ceasefire is no problem.
49:36C-spire as part of an overall settlement is no candidate.
49:40The other attack, yes, at the north, the east, do not object, have never objected to a C-spire as part of the overall settlement.
49:47That isn't the part they object to.
49:49It's in their proposal.
49:51It's in their proposal.
49:52It's in their nine points.
49:54Our five, point two.
49:56That's what you say, it's in their nine points.
49:58Point two is Kennedy's attack is more pointed and more effective.
50:05is that why don't we just drop all this and come out with a straight withdrawal for POWs.
50:13Forget about eating oysters at one point.
50:16One might be withdrawn from POWs.
50:18That's the candid point.
50:20Now, I want to be sure Bill does not... You see, he cannot back to that point and say, well, we've offered POW withdrawal, because we have not.
50:28We've offered POW withdrawal, and he's fired.
50:32Yes, but again, this is true, but it's such a cheap attack.
50:37I'm sure it is.
50:38Because if they had wanted it, they could have said, either this is our May 31st proposal, and our last proposal goes very far towards POW for withdrawal by implementing it first.
50:54Well, you could say, Bill, that our last proposal implements the view that this is withdrawal part of the first.
51:01Right.
51:02I think you can say that again.
51:04And could you get this to Rob, too, then, to the grok?
51:07If he's raised in the county.
51:09The only thing, the only other thing that seems to me is that the best wine...
51:17But we can't be in a position to say we've made an offer and we won't discuss it.
51:21We've got to answer some questions.
51:23But, generally speaking, you have got to make an offer and then stick to it.
51:28You cannot give a goddamn hint.
51:30That is right.
51:31It appears that we've shifted our ground.
51:33That is right.
51:35Well, the New York Times had a rather good editorial today, didn't they?
51:41They had a very supportive one today.
51:43It wasn't, of course, this lying...
51:46I mean... Well, they said it's exactly the same proposal you made on October 7th last year, which is an outrageous lie.
51:57They said you proposed ceasefire then, but that's... October 7th, 17th.
52:03October 770, you proposed... Two resignations, they don't mention the fact that...
52:10In October 7th, you proposed to cease fire first.
52:12Here we propose to cease fire last, which is a terribly important difference.
52:17October 7th, we didn't say anything about electoral commissions.
52:20This time, we put the whole... Also, we didn't... We didn't say anything about a deadline.
52:25We said nothing about a deadline.
52:27That's the main point.
52:28We spoke about mutual withdrawal.
52:30Here we speak about unilateral American withdrawal.
52:34It's really on a factual basis so outrageously wrong.
52:37All right, all right.
52:38I've got an idea on that.
52:42You write a letter.
52:43And this is disordered in the Washington Post to appear on their op-ed column.
52:52Why don't we get the state to do it?
52:55I mean, I don't mind doing it, but... All right, you write a letter for somebody to send that they will use, and to say that it's... And then just lay out a bribe or something like that.
53:06That's why my point is... That's Marshall Green.
53:08That's Marshall Green.
53:09All right, that's Marshall Green.
53:12I'll do it, but I think that... You can tell Marshall that I felt that he was the best man, he's been out there so far, but you prepare the letter for him and say this is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
53:27And they know the suspect, it's not that they're editorials, but they told you, you see...
53:34The thing about you, Bob, you've got to kick our people in the ass to make them work.
53:42The post is a disgrace, and why we can't get some rich people to start a newspaper.
53:52You've got another newspaper.
53:54The Star Editorial was good.
53:57I haven't seen it.
53:58Of course you didn't.
53:58You didn't have some problem with it.
54:01No, but it is a disgrace to have these, they are the most lying, one-sided people.
54:07The New York Times occasionally is fair.
54:09It should.
54:12It takes a bit more than you.
54:14It calls up and says...
54:52Every time, all he has to give him is attention on the trip, and he doesn't have Dick Wilson on the trip, he doesn't have a lot of others.
54:59All right, the post is coming off this trip.
55:01They are coming off the trip.
55:03The star we own, the post will not exactly put it down, and carry it out for once.
55:09God damn it, I'm sick of this shit, of our people around here trying to second guess me.
55:14The Washington Post is not going to be on this trip.
55:23It's a central newspaper that's sending it.
55:26It is not going to be on this trip.
55:29Is that clear?
55:31They can carry it from the U.P.
55:33and the H.N.O.P.
55:36You just tell Ron, go ahead and come in and bring in your own thing.
55:38It's not going to be done.
55:41You can have the Times, and he said, you've got Ron Osborne.
55:44I don't mind that.
55:45You can have Marcus Childs.
55:47I don't mind that.
55:47Any lines, dirty son of a bitch in the press corps.
55:51But you're not going to have the Washington Post, which deliberately is adopting a policy that screws us day after day after day.
55:59So it just doesn't happen.
56:01That's the way I'm going to run through some things around here to make people look worried.
56:10What he said, well, maybe they'll send Mr. Eddie.
56:13He must not, if that's wrong, he must not tell any press people that they're wrong until I look at the list again.
56:19I don't think he's wrong.
56:20I've got a lot of opinions on it, Bob.
56:22I've got a lot of things.
56:24And I thought about it a lot last night.
56:27And I think we're going to play a little better.
56:29We're going to get a kick in the ass, no matter how unfair we are.
56:34There's one other thing to do, be unfair as hell.
56:38Put on two or three radicals and about to kiss a lot of your friends.
56:44Except for the pelican.
56:46You've got to take a look at this now.
56:50We're not taking who they sent, we're telling them who they sent.
56:52The Post is not sending anybody.
56:55We don't have paper, we tell them that the reporters find them, just find a way that the Washington Post has a paper.
57:03It's not going to be long.
57:05The funny thing is, the Chinese won't let them in either, you know.
57:11I was commenting that with Bill, if you were just in the line,
57:21Ja, they sort of berated the plan, but they didn't reject it.
57:32It's a funny thing, they're taking the line, you know, it's a maneuver, it's up the future.
57:36That's right.
57:39No, they didn't do so much.
57:40They just said it's a way for you to continue the war.
57:43But what they're now doing is just asking for surrender.
57:45I mean, that's what it's come down to.
57:49But we didn't expect them to accept it today.
57:54Or for the next weeks.
57:59Or with Bill, I would say.
58:02One thing I found interesting last night, leaving aside the merit of the speakers, the fascination with China, anything having to do with China, they had a song by...
58:17Some people is sort of Chinese song.
58:20The whole theme was China, but they really, every time China is mentioned, it gets a ripple of excitement.
58:28And that's different from Russia.
58:30I mean, Russia actually will have more achievements.
58:33Well, what I was going to say, you're saying that these things are good.
58:41Why don't you put it on the pages that we just read?
58:47But I'll just say that our ceasefire is point X. I'll look it up over there.
59:14Okay, nine points, and it's slightly rewritten, but no major substantive difference.
59:19No argument about a ceasefire.
59:21That's part of the...
59:23It can't be.
59:24This is the real one.
59:25It can't be person for withdrawal.
59:30We have offered that in implementing the only plan they have been willing to discuss, that we would begin with prisoners for withdrawal.
59:52The first phase of the plan that they have indicated they would discuss...
59:57Which is the only one they've said...
59:59The only plan that they've indicated they said would be prisoners should withdraw.
1:00:04And I... And they've indicated they won't take it.
1:00:07The Kennedy proposal is totally irrelevant.
1:00:11Because when he says one point, prisoners should withdraw, they've already turned that down.
1:00:14When we came to them and said we want to settle the military issues first, which is this...
1:00:19They said that political and military issues must be linked.
1:00:24They said it to us, they said it to the New York Times, they said it publicly.
1:00:29It is a cheap, democratic trick of Kennedy.
1:00:40I'm going to call Bill because he's going on my letter.
1:00:48But at that dinner again last night, I went to the reception first.
1:00:55The newsmen, you know, they're barracudas, and they're going to turn...
1:01:19But I think we've got a lot of credit with them now.
1:01:21And aside from the clan, the thing that I think did us most good was the fact that you've been working on this for two years, that what you said was right.
1:01:34And that sort of impresses them.
1:01:37I mean, when you said they were secret dogs and they were sort of flickering to themselves.
1:01:43It was very, very respectful.
1:01:45Well, in the line that you've been able to get any of that personal stuff out, I talked to Colson last night, and he thought some of that was coming true.
1:01:54But are we hitting that, you know, the fact that for two and a half years we've taken the slings and arrows of these sons of bitches?
1:02:00Yeah.
1:02:01And they've talked about the lonely decision type thing at the present, but...
1:02:08I think that's coming across.
1:02:09And pull the rug out from under the grips.
1:02:27I've eaten Brinkley.
1:02:29I've eaten Jordan, the star, who always does the right stuff against this really good piece.
1:02:39You cannot do anything but appoint the president for what he did.
1:02:43He obviously didn't like it.
1:02:47One thing I'd like to get this captain to make, my general,
1:02:52One little captain out there criticized us on exactly the right reason.
1:02:56He didn't have the right speech.
1:02:58But he said to the director about losing 50,000 men when he fought them just to get back to the field, that's wrong.
1:03:05He said, we never fought them.
1:03:08It's the people of South Vietnam.
1:03:10We must not surrender.
1:03:14And that's the healthy America.
1:03:20But that's my belief.
1:03:21What you have done now, Mr. President, the Democrats are in the position where the only thing you haven't done is to surrender.
1:03:28Some of our people out there have to say this.
1:03:33That our democratic critics want to surrender.
1:03:36They are for surrender.
1:03:37They are the party of surrender.
1:03:39Just get it hard.
1:03:40Just like that.
1:03:40I mean, that is not the party.
1:03:45Our democratic critics.
1:03:47No, our critics.
1:03:48Their heart is with the critics.
1:03:50Praise the good crazy.
1:03:51Man, she was good.
1:03:52She was good?
1:03:53Yeah.
1:03:53But there's several that Jackson has been good.
1:03:57Praise the loyal Democrats, you know.
1:04:00Never give it as far as the goal.
1:04:01The goal isn't sophisticated enough sometimes.
1:04:04It isn't precise enough.
1:04:06The other thing is that they want a communist government being done.
1:04:13God damn it, they've got to get up and say it.
1:04:14The team has no clothes.
1:04:17Henry and I were talking about this yesterday, and our people now, it's no subtly law.
1:04:22They've got to fight it.
1:04:24They've got to nail everything in law.
1:04:27I know they're burning hell.
1:04:32It's almost impossible.
1:04:34But I think we have to agree that it's going for us.
1:04:38One of the things is, we had audience abasement, and these goddamn piddling-ass critics that are, of course, taking the news and the rest of it, and we have smaller audiences, and it will not be as believable.
1:04:50Frank, you have a lot of, you have the majority of the media for you right now.
1:04:54No, I mean, the critics are waffling back to what Oral Gilbert is, you know, each stage of events is different than the last one.
1:05:02And they're pointing that out.
1:05:03They're saying that they're in,
1:05:05Disarray, I don't know what they're saying.
1:05:07And Muskie's first statement was quite favorable, and now he's running for cover.
1:05:14Now the idiots are fastening on the cheese fire.
1:05:18We could just say, I think Ziegler should say too, gentlemen,
1:05:22The ceasefire we propose is point X of the North Vietnamese 9.9.
1:05:28We don't know what this screaming is all about.
1:05:30Just say it coldly.
1:05:32I don't know what they're talking about.
1:05:36Apparently Dr. Kweber hasn't studied this.
1:05:41The ceasefire down at this point is so-called their plan.
1:05:44No, no, no, no, no, no.
1:06:06On the overall question, they insist on it.
1:06:09They can't get us on this one, because, first of all, we've been setting it up carefully.
1:06:14Secondly, we've been nuts to come get out there with any credibility problem, knowing that the North Vietnamese, the Viet Cong, and our democratic critics are laying for us.
1:06:26I don't know, Nancy Dickerson, I don't know, I don't know if you can see her at that dinner, she said that press is completely...
1:06:34Well, no, today it sees at 90% of 400, and those who are not, have been found.
1:06:38Oh, no press?
1:06:38Oh, yes, yes, yes.
1:07:53So, I'm not going to let you do this.
1:07:55Thank you.
1:07:56No, it's better than that.
1:07:57There you go.
1:07:57You're right.
1:08:00Yes, of course, son.
1:08:01Yes, good.
1:08:02Stand firm.
1:08:03Good.
1:08:03It's great.
1:08:05So, we have to start fast.
1:08:06It's off.
1:08:07Now, we've got a good start first.
1:08:12That's nice.
1:08:12There's what we can't do, son.
1:08:18There's what we can't do.
1:09:23And I think, you know, I intend to keep doing that for the next two, two times here.
1:09:28Because I think it's just, this is one of the problems that I see.
1:09:31People are too, I mean, peace is too important for politics.
1:09:41And that, that our, that our, that our critics are putting partisanship above peace
1:09:52Hardest ship of all our POWs.
1:09:54If you think you could enlist Buchanan to do the writing, you can do it.
1:10:00Colson has more contacts than Koch and I have.
1:10:03Koch is good, but he's very intellectual.
1:10:05And we need a charter cutting edge.
1:10:09Part of the problem is that they're getting out there.
1:10:10Colson isn't able to see this, just doesn't have the body.
1:10:14Buchanan doesn't have the body.
1:10:16And then we've got to get, I'll tell you the way to do it, rather than have Coles asking, you asking about it.
1:10:21The president wants him to take over, which is to knock the shit out of him.
1:10:27Do you agree with the idea or not?
1:10:29Yeah, I do.
1:10:30Because you've got to use your pen, and you've got to.
1:10:35For example, if you can't do it, you couldn't write the 15,000 word, then Hebrew does that, but Hebrew can't write the cutting edge.
1:10:41So...
1:10:47No, they did not understand after this.
1:10:49I am gratified with the fact that we have been able to get some of the mail.
1:10:58The politicians screwed up a lot of things.
1:11:15This has been followed up again from Steve.
1:11:17I've said it several times.
1:11:19A signing ceremony.
1:11:19It's with Aliak.
1:11:20So I'm not going to have a press photo in there.
1:11:23I'm not going to do it.
1:11:25Has it been announced as a press photo?
1:11:26It hasn't been announced.
1:11:27It's too bad.
1:11:27It's almost not going to be a press photo.
1:11:29It's going to be an Aliak.
1:11:33I have no speech to make to these people.
1:11:38I'm just not going to do it.
1:11:39Who decided this would be that?
1:11:41No, the life was not this, and this should not be this.
1:11:45We can't start changing the sand story.
1:11:48Today is the public story.
1:11:51And you've got all those people standing around.
1:11:54It's a lousy picture.
1:11:56And so forth.
1:11:57Now, goddammit, don't do this again.
1:11:59Let's not make this kind of mistake.
1:12:01I'm not going to say all these things.
1:12:28You've got to take these a little more closely, because that is a good policy.
1:12:32It really is a good policy.
1:12:34To sit there and sign these things in front of everybody is just a horse's ass thing to do.
1:13:04I guess you think I'd better start looking at these schedules as well, sir.
1:13:08Well, all right.
1:13:09Will you watch them?
1:13:09Yes, sir.
1:13:11Yes, sir.
1:13:11Now, there's one picture there.
1:13:13Yes, that's it.
1:13:14Yes, it is.
1:13:15So, we've got it done.
1:13:36I don't know, you know.
1:14:19It's a good point.
1:14:20I don't know whether the cabin people know that Peter's in tree places.
1:14:24Call them.
1:14:27It might be worth calling them.
1:14:29Just call them while we're making the announcement today.
1:14:36I'm sure that you know that in this deli, if you can't get a cabin officer, don't insist that you've got to talk to him.
1:14:44That's our thing.
1:14:47Okay.
1:14:48And yeah, we have downstairs.
1:14:49Yes, and also Thomas Peter Bynum will take the position of the other.
1:14:54Yes, and announce all treatments.
1:14:55I think that actually we have this same position at the present time.
1:15:09It's a good thing.
1:15:13And if we can
1:15:15I'm not allowed to step away.
1:15:18You can treat it as if you've got any more crew small than you had before.
1:15:23Just like you say, from the time I lived in China, we peed the offensive on the Vietnam issue and hit these bastards over the head and let's make them a party of surrender, a party of communism.
1:15:34You have to be, you have to be agreed.
1:15:36I sure do.
1:15:37And I go off beat and knock their brains out and really stick their heads up.
1:15:46No question.
1:15:48We talked about it right from the beginning.
1:15:51The easy part is going to be to give it a kick for a couple of days.
1:15:55The problem is going to be to stay with it.
1:15:59This is what we've got to stay with.
1:16:00We can gain a hell of a lot from the next few years.
1:16:05We've been through this a lot.
1:16:09Everybody will say, well, we came out fine on that one.
1:16:14Fine.
1:16:14Like we're ours.
1:16:18It's longer than that for the setting of the funds.
1:16:21Another point is that we have to control the politics, particularly from the candidates.
1:16:34So we can't just wait, just continue to hammer and hammer and hammer.
1:16:38We can't pretend that this is how it will be.
1:16:41If we can hold just some of the people that we've had and not allow them to get the solution,
1:16:46Keep mailings going out like that, and it gets deranged about what this thing is all about.
1:16:50Now, most people that you love are so goddamn confused.
1:16:54That's all right.
1:16:57But if they get something that indicates that...
1:16:59What it is, then they feel that they're not confused, you know.
1:17:04It's just like having a huge book there.
1:17:05It's actually what Jesus Christ said.
1:17:07It must be a very, very socially proposed thing.
1:17:09Exactly.
1:17:10Whether they read the book or not, they think they understand.
1:17:13And also the answer to these sons of bitches is a good thing.
1:17:15Do you think so?

Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Vietnam War and People's Republic of China

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Also recorded on January 27, 1972

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