Nixon, Haldeman & Ziegler on Marina von Neumann Whitman

1:29It's so thin, just a little.
1:30Two inches is about to make it.
1:31Here, look at this, actually.
1:34I see you put icicles in the hot thing.
1:38No, that's not where it's been done yet so far.
1:51One problem we've got on schedule today is that Marina Whitman, the economic lady, we were going to announce next Tuesday when we had good news, but the word is out, and Stein feels very, very strongly we've got to announce it today, which is too bad.
2:21That would be great.
2:21Would you mind doing it tomorrow morning?
2:25Well, of course, I have to be here over at the University.
2:31Have her in first thing in the morning, get her a picture, so we can catch the Sunday papers.
2:35Excellent.
2:35I'd be glad to go today, but it would be lost.
2:37I wish I'd thought of that.
2:39That's right.
2:39Construction trades.
2:40Well, we've got the drug.
2:42The drug is our big story today.
2:43And construction will get a second good Sunday paper.
2:47Yes, it is.
2:48And...
2:50That'd be great.
2:51I'll be over in the morning.
2:54What time is it?
2:569.30?
2:56It's 10 o'clock.
2:5610 o'clock.
3:039.30.
3:039.30.
3:03Well, it's 10.
3:04This is a good hour.
3:09This is a curve, I understand.
3:11Very wise.
3:11We can live with it at 10 o'clock tomorrow morning.
3:18They can put it, you know, off one day, and that gives us the best of both worlds.
3:22We get it done quickly, but also solve the problem of getting some new talent.
3:26If we do it today, we'll get lost.
3:29That's too good a story to lose.
3:31Okay.
3:33Would you mind trying to get a PR record on this one?
3:41I was thinking, for example, this woman, Franklin and the National Committee people and the Congresswomen down there.
3:56You know what I mean?
3:57They all ought to, you might even get a few of them in here.
4:06They're really quite, you know, you get a good appointment, and to a super high post that no woman's ever held, nobody would have ever thought of her.
4:18Well, you gotta adopt the idea, too, that it was solely my idea.
4:21Yep.
4:21That I had been impressed with.
4:25I'd seen her in the interviews.
4:33and they ought to get the scally on and things like that.
4:38So this will just run next week.
4:46It really is, it's different from the Supreme Court, not nearly as well known, but it's the same category.
4:53It's a breakthrough.
4:57Massive proportion, you know, considering the number of women.
5:02It's got the economic system.
5:03It's quite, quite, quite expensive.
5:06Yeah.
5:08They're trying to find a woman to replace her on the price floor so we can keep a woman in that apparatus.
5:13Herb Stein says, you know, you've got a real problem on that because in this field you've got Marina Whitman here and then you've got about 50 blank spaces before you get to the next woman.
5:24There just isn't anybody else.
5:26Yeah.
5:28But they don't have to go to an economist on the price board.
5:31They can go to, you know, some other kind of one.
5:34We've got a problem putting inside people on there.
5:43Even Arnie Lipper has a problem on this.
5:49Apparently little Judge Boat did alright for himself on the Hill yesterday.
5:55Tried to work him over.
5:58You understand what I mean?
6:02All these things are not very as difficult as they seem.
6:07What kind of funny incident on one of the other guys that was up there, we somehow had purloined Proxmire's questions.
6:13I think somebody in his staff leaked them out or something.
6:16We had the questions and we'd given them to the people so they'd work up their answers.
6:21And one of the other guys answered a question that was the next one up before Proxmire.
6:38One other thing, you said you agreed to have us look for a black opportunity.
6:48And there is a thing which isn't really a black opportunity, but that is worth at least raising as a thought.
6:54They are having at the Washington Hilton on Sunday night, this Sunday, a testimonial dinner, presumably honoring Bob Brown,
7:05for his aid to blacks who want to help themselves.
7:09It's actually a fundraising thing in some way for sickle cell anemia.
7:20But the point is it's a drop-by opportunity if you want to consider it.
7:24Sandy Davis, Jr. and Ed Brooke are the co-chairmen of it.
7:28The proceeds go to sickle cell anemia research.
7:32And the blacks that are attending it is absolutely incredible.
7:35Jackie Robinson, Roy Ennis, Vernon Jordan, Art Fletcher, Mayer Hatchett, Jesse Jackson, Charles Evers, Berkeley Burrell, you know, all of them.
7:46From all over the country, all the blacks that are, you know, maybe there isn't quite as much in all the blacks.
7:54Is there anybody?
7:54Well, currently, these are the ones that are coming.
7:56There's going to be 2,300 people there.
7:57It's a very big dinner.
7:59Black tie and all this stuff.
8:02Now, Buchanan...
8:04who you know put in the original thing makes the point that this would be a good forum for you to drop by but it is not the right one for you to develop a thing where you speak to the middle class black and realistically about their position in society it's a um it's a close call and it's amazing it's an opportunity
8:32That's what they said.
8:33Remarks should be light in nature with their difference.
8:35You know, sort of a light touch on Bob Brown.
8:38What a great job he's doing.
8:39And then maybe a serious note on our program.
8:45I said we'd sell it to you for a second or something.
8:50But we'll leave it there.
8:53Yes, it is.
8:55It's a disease that only blacks get, or virtually only blacks get.
8:59It's a cancer, a blood cancer.
9:02It's tied into your cancer.
9:05Why do they get it?
9:07Because of the composition of their blood, which sort of shoots down to people and says there's no difference between blacks and whites.
9:18There's some difference in blood composition, pressure.
9:26if you should do it it should be with no announcement which is very definitely the worst thing you could do is say you're going and we'll let anybody know you're going and i think what i should do is even on this because they've raised it as a proposal to say no so that there's no thought of you coming
9:53I mean, it sounds like nice and everything.
9:58And we hold these testimonials.
10:00If you do it, if you do it, what you ought to do is go, it's an 8.30 minute, you ought to wait until 9.30 or so.
10:05Go, walk in, make your remarks, and walk out.
10:11Totally other than us.
10:20I think I made it too fast.
10:21You must be happy.
10:24Yeah, I don't know.
10:25No, we're getting this all better.
10:29There's a lot of stuff on our thing.
10:33The recent market was the indicators.
10:36The leading indicators had a huge jump.
10:39You were talking about the market.
10:41Yeah, we're on 10 points.
10:42We have 20 million shares.
10:45I don't know.
10:46No, well, they announced this leading indicator saying it was up 2.2, but on 4 it went down, 4 it went up.
10:54The story is a huge jump in the leading indicators.
10:58Largest rise in a long time.
11:01It's a good positive story.
11:02Rodgers do well?
11:04Yes.
11:09Well, he went into a big thing about, it's amazing how he flips, moves back and forth, but he's very optimistic now.
11:37He's got a, you know, his rationale on what's going to happen.
11:46They're going to make the big move, we can hold them, and then he thinks we'll really get to negotiate.
12:02She's perverted.
12:03She's got this whole, you know, she...
12:05She said Muskie is bad on women's issues and afflicted with stoning.
12:09Reagan's impression of Hollywood came due to masculinity and policies clear off the charge.
16:08The historical stuff on the Peace Initiative are there to count.
16:13I don't read them.
16:14No, there's a few bad ones, but it's overwhelming.
16:17The bad ones are the New Yorker, you know, the New Yorker vote was filed in the New York Post.
16:21Oh, of course.
16:23And the people that are in it.
16:26But a good general is not.
16:28Yeah, even like the St. Louis Post-Dispatches that have been into it.
16:33Look, Democrat had a great yesterday.
16:36It's...
16:37The whole thing is not on a, I think, very positive basis.
16:43I wrote, throw my hand up there, I wrote, I just started really popularizing our service.
16:49I wrote a book with John Irwin, but I'm only on page three of it.
16:52I want to bury him, just for his eyes and yours only.
16:56I wrote just a little bit about it.
16:58I'm excited to be done.
17:02Great job.
17:07Let me tell you the real trust in this which Herobrine has not thought of.
17:20He's thought of it.
17:20He doesn't mention it.
17:32because there is a decision to this in our court, and it wasn't our judgment on that.
17:37Well, that's the thing that that would work, which I thought it would.
17:42Some of these cases are going to get to the Supreme Court before the election.
17:47Now, the reverse side of the coin, this being our court, the Nixon court, it works out without him.
17:57And the Nixon court then proceeds to approve us, and we are screwed.
18:02No questions.
18:03We weren't done in.
18:04Before that, Nixon clerked us through.
18:07He better be out of his head.
18:09If we give it after, he'll be repudiated in our own court.
18:12And we can't do that.
18:14John doesn't seem to understand that.
18:16Well, plus, part of the problem, too, is that I know what happens in the transit.
18:20He's beaten over the head and shoulders by, you know, Carmen Peter.
18:25All those people over there are a little on this issue.
18:27And I understand my good guy.
18:29You sit around here, and you're talking to the Blacks, and you read the Washington Post and the New York Times, and what are we doing for them?
18:36They put in every goddamn budget that how much more we put in for civil rights.
18:39Now, that doesn't even mean a thing.
18:41It doesn't mean a thing.
18:44How much more we're doing for food standards doesn't mean a thing.
18:48Well, anyway.
18:53So I've covered that, and I've covered this another time.
18:56I've covered the strategy, followed that one, followed that for a little bit closer.
19:00And I'll come to you with regard to the next one, or not the 15th one, the Vietnam thing.
19:08The thing about the Vietnam thing, you have to realize, is it's a two-track approach.
19:15The major track, and the first one I've covered is Saltman Ranch in Toronto.
19:22And the first major track is
19:24to crack an attack, and the attack must be vicious.
19:29Vicious, because that is the only way you'll get across what they're doing.
19:33We have nine attacks, which is why this one cannot break viciously enough.
19:37He just doesn't know how.
19:39I said, did you tell him that?
19:40He said, well, Chuck and I were talking about just exactly this this morning.
19:43He understands the problem that we have of not getting hurt unless we're dirty enough to do anything.
19:52You've got Peter Durbin, the party of the surrender, as the main comfort to the enemy, and the other will say, Bob, the really best one we've got, I think, just nail it hard on them, is...
20:07The people that are criticizing this proposal now, guys, lead us to only one conclusion, which is that the thing they really want, and it can be the only thing they want, is communist opposition.
20:20A communist nomination.
20:21Don't talk about Q.
20:23Never.
20:23I haven't heard much about Q.
20:26No.
20:26Because everybody's for the overthrow of Q. I mean, the popular, nobody's, let's put it the other way, there's damn little support for Q anymore.
20:33Because nobody thinks he must be.
20:35Henry's a drag.
20:37First, of course, put it on the two-government address.
20:40I struck all that out.
20:42If you notice, I had changed it around.
20:44I had it in that institute.
20:46It said, of course, overthrow the government of South Vietnam.
20:49See what I mean?
20:49And yours is fine.
20:51Now, we ought to go and say, well, a communist government in South Vietnam.
20:55You've done that.
20:56You've offered everything except a communist government in South Vietnam.
21:02This is what you've got to do.
21:03The key to this is an issue.
21:06Keep it an issue.
21:07It's a good issue.
21:08Don't let it just go away.
21:09Don't say, oh gee, they're not saying anything.
21:12You remember, after we made our October 11, 1970, everybody said, oh gee, that's withdrawn.
21:17That's an issue.
21:17Bullshit.
21:18Attack Muskie.
21:19Attack Humphrey.
21:21Pick the Muskie.
21:22That is our...
21:23I did... Now, my vice president has attacked the Jesus out of Muskie, and they haven't picked it up.
21:29They have picked up some, but...
21:31Where did you get it?
21:32On this intuition mouse?
21:33No, on this.
21:34BP is rolling on this one.
21:38They had Buchanan do a speech, and he rejected it.
21:42He won't use it.
21:43But there's a lot of good stuff in it that we have other people use.
21:47Well, can we get anybody to use it?
21:51How many of you will get the vice president to use it when he sees that he doesn't get picked up with the other stuff?
21:56Because that's the way you play him.
22:00if he doesn't get another shot of cold water.
22:03Cold water, use the party to surrender.
22:07Rather than the party of surrender, the men of surrender.
22:12And then in every speech you praise, as long as they take it, you praise that the Republicans jumped over, like Brandon Morris, and you praise the main field and, you know, and Stennis.
22:26And you say, let's praise these men who have, and I, this memorandum of mine, it spells it all out, I thought it all out.
22:35and tell us exactly what I want done.
22:37I'll do the best I can, but I think we're very- I think your problem is this, that I think you have basically an operator, but I don't think you've got somebody that can write it, and that sure is a problem.
22:50Well, you didn't have to write it, too, unless it is pretty sharp on this stuff.
22:53And between how it could be done, I think we've got pretty good stuff in it.
22:58The other problem is, you gotta write it so somebody will use it.
23:01Part of what we, the trouble we had with Knopsaker was nobody used his stuff after he wrote it, and he wrote some pretty good stuff that helped me say it.
23:10Okay.
23:11I'm pretty well set for today.
23:14We're the drug thing to carry the, the way.
23:17UPI, uh,
23:18U.P.I.
23:19ran a story last night which was wrong on your departure date for China.
23:23They said the 16th.
23:24I guess it's the 17th, isn't it?
23:27Yeah.
23:29So there's no...
23:42fusion later on, and that's carried on radio and everything else at the 16th.
23:46I think I should put out the right date today.
23:48No details, but the right date today.
23:52The tentative plan is to leave it on the 16th.
23:55Leave it loose.
23:56That's right, because then it'll look like we've got something screwed up when we change it.
24:04I don't know.
24:07There's so many people now who are
24:10Why don't you just say about, you know, if it's the 10th.
24:12This is the 17th.
24:14The 17th, depending upon what we're still working on.
24:16The date is not confirmed.
24:17No, should I hear?
24:18The date is not confirmed.
24:21They also have the stopping in Hawaii and Guam.
24:25Yeah, well, that's under consideration, but it will depend upon.
24:29We still haven't made a final decision.
24:33We haven't made a final decision about the stops.
24:35We have to make two stops, and those are the ones that are tentatively under consideration.
24:41But this has not yet been submitted to the President.
24:43He'll make a final decision.
24:45Probably make it sometime next week.
24:48We will not leave before the 17th.
24:51I can't say that.
24:53We're pretending to talk about the 17th, but it is possible that we'll leave.
25:02We'll make two stops.
25:02Two stops have to be made.
25:04The Hawaii bombs have been recommended by the advance party, but the president has not had time yet to consider it.
25:14He'll make a decision on the latter part of next week.
25:19That's the merit of being back to the 2000s.
25:26It's history.
25:28We took Clinton on a little bit yesterday.
25:34He didn't get a whole lot of play.
25:36Ron hit him on the ceasefire thing.
25:39I think you've got to worry about that.
25:40That's the one thing that's not the best you can agree with, Ron.
25:45Well, I referred to that.
25:49I said, well, look, when you come to the ceasefire, Henry's explained it all.
25:52The president explained it.
25:54But the fact of the matter is .7 in their nine-point plan is .6 in our eight-point plan.
25:59And I said, we have to deal, the president has to deal with facts and reality.
26:03He has a responsibility to deal with this matter.
26:05But I suppose there'll be those who'll continue to make comments in the fantasy of their own illusions.
26:10Yeah, the fantasy of their own illusions, even then.
26:13In that way, don't they?
26:14Well, generally speaking, the opposition is somewhat disagreeable.
26:22Totally.
26:23I think.
26:23It must be, you know, that bunch of things make a hell of a lot of sense.
26:32All they say is about one issue.
26:36Well, you ought to use this one, if you haven't already.
26:39Yes, totally.
26:42really straightaway already, it seems to come down to those who know that the small group of willful men, of ambitious men, who oppose the present policy, that their answer is the surrender of the United States.
27:06And opposing the communist government of South Vietnam.
27:09Those are the only two issues left.
27:12I had to come right out of the White House.
27:18God damn, it's true.
27:19That was a good day.
27:23It's the only line that's left now.
27:25Is there anything else there?
27:26They say they put it all out there.
27:28You take the New York Times League story today.
27:30On the right side, they say the deadline for an overture of Cuba.
27:33Now, you're supposed to hear what they mean by overture.
27:38They don't have an alternative.
27:42They say overture would put us in.
27:44Because it depends on how you deem it.
27:46In fact, you agreed to deal with him.
27:48As a matter of fact, ask him.
27:52Someone asked that question of Henry when Henry said he was prepared to step down.
27:59And someone asked, well, Henry, in fact, that is an overthrow.
28:03He was going out of office before his term was up.
28:06Am I wrong, Henry?
28:08Right, but he's still out of office.
28:10He's been over 30 months.
28:11He's removing himself from the office.
28:13Well, that's why we try to go the best way, because the line that we've gone as far as we can go is that we have tried our very best to meet their political, to give some of their political things, but still leave the final choice of the people of South Vietnam.
28:31Of course, what they own is the guarantee of a communist government in the area of Vietnam.
28:37Don't be afraid to use the word that our people want surrender of the United States.
28:43They want us to guarantee a communist government.
28:45Which would be surrender.
28:47Well, we'll get that out of the way.
28:50I'm going to Houston.
29:01tonight and talk to the editors down there tomorrow, so I'll be asking them.
29:05The N.A.?
29:06No, it's all of the subscribers of United Press International in Texas.
29:10Oh, yeah.
29:11Good.
29:11But they're all the papers in Texas that subscribe to you.
29:14Well, there.
29:21Some of them disagree.
29:22You do a Q&A better.
29:23Q&A.
29:23Good.
29:23That's a good thing.
29:24You do all of those.
29:30I'll be able to get some of those points in, you know.
29:33But everything that you do, kind of sadly, you can say, oh, gee, gee, oh, it's obvious now that the people that are left opposing this, sir, can only be those who want to come and give them the software and give them a memorandum I wrote to, uh, a lot.
29:48These are, some of this may be a little rather than you want to use to give you the lines, so that's good.
29:54Okay, wise men.
29:55You can get pretty rough on this one.
29:56You can get rough on that, you see, if you're not on the reading plan.
29:59That's right.
29:59It's a different thing.
30:01You're expressing your views instead of your views.
30:03Right.
30:03You didn't say that.
30:04You've got to get across some of it.
30:09You might get a hell of a bunch out of that this time.
30:11I might leave it.
30:12Don't get across some of the positive stuff for 30 months.
30:15You're out there in the breathing, frankly.
30:26that when he was full on, that he had done more than the British did.
30:34And also hold out the hope that there will be a negotiation, that it can be, and that they're all, as far as our field governments are concerned, that's the only way we can get them back.
30:44So we've got to do that.
30:45We're keeping open the negotiating channels.
30:51You might point out, they say the wide-ranging statements,
31:04The charge of breaking secrecy is that that's ruined the negotiations.
31:27The good answer to that is that the North Vietnamese have not rejected the proposal.
31:32Well, another line being used, too, is that many of the ambitious men, or many of the few critics that have long been critics, have seemed to reject the plan before the other side.
31:43Why don't we say it?
31:44Rejected the plan beforehand, or what did you say?
31:47I found a lot of other ideas covered in this memorandum.
31:49Very clearly, the idea that any chance for negotiation
32:02is destroyed by division in this country's international vision, when recognized leaders offer something different from and more than we want, because the enemy then says, why should we negotiate?
32:22The only way to get negotiation is to present the United States with people who are
32:31I'd also like to point out that the, I've got a few lines in there.
32:37They're putting partisanship ahead of these, they're putting partisanship ahead of these.
32:44Point out all the sprays that they've got.
32:46Since the sprays in this case, as long as you say they're Spanish, you know, after all that this is.
32:54Now, the,
32:58And he isolated the people who really are now, he isolated those who apparently had the one thing he said was true.
33:10He also, I'm getting ready, dropped the line that we could share, he could share the very truth that he said, that many critics in the past did
33:26echoed the enemy's line, unconsciously.
33:31I've heard this from my grandfather, but now, when they echo the enemy's line, they are consciously giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
33:42See my mark?
33:43Giving aid and comfort to the enemy, unconsciously before, but now they're consciously doing it.
33:55Correct.
33:55I'm not .
33:56And he says he has to see you for 10 minutes.
34:08And John says he needs to see you for 10 minutes before it's 12 o'clock.
34:14Because I have issues.
34:18Or what?
34:1912.45.
34:19He leaves at 12.45 to spend with .
34:26We need to catch him for a couple of minutes and then we can pretend.
34:35I'll catch him.
34:39I'm going to swear to the sky and I will.
34:44I'm going to swear to the sky and I will.
35:23Are we putting too much?
35:25He's bright as hell
35:39But are you, I mean, I think we've got too many people like Moore and Klein and the rest, you know, that head around, but really don't come up with a, with a, well, let it jump in.
35:50Klein will on this kind of stuff.
35:54Yeah, he won't get anything done, but he can give you anything, right?
35:57He's going to sit down and think of the strategy.
35:59That's what I mean.
36:00Not much.
36:01That's what I mean.
36:01Not much.
36:04I think I know what Scallion does well in that.
36:06Good.
36:06Scallion, I'm glad you're going to be in there.
36:09And Clark and Gregory are outside.
36:12It's really Mark and Scallion and Colson and I that can harvest this place.
36:16You've got a pretty good team.
36:18And they all fan out.
36:19I mean, they cover Scallion maneuver externally.
36:23Colson's got, you know, his crew that he can really get cranky.
36:28See, Chuck's got some pretty good backup now.
36:29He didn't have, but he's got it.
36:36He's got a chance to get some stuff done.
36:39He's got gold cooperating with him now, and that can help.
36:45We've got to get Bob off the partisan thing and onto just a straight frontal attack.
36:48He can't do that.
36:49He doesn't know how to do that.
36:50He doesn't know very well.
36:53There's a piece on the campus Republican there, Republican versus Democrat.
36:57I can't believe it.
40:27I don't want to put on any burdens that are beyond his staff and capabilities.
40:33In Africa, because the guy is good at one thing, but he's going to be good at something else.
40:39And he's going to be the best judge of rhetoric, is my point.
40:48Talk to him about the cook rhetoric.
40:50He knows what we're talking about.
40:55What he's doing is trying to get the toughest stuff into each person that he can get.
41:05Go for it.
41:06Don't say you need any tough stuff.
41:12Somebody was saying we need to do something.
41:14He's asking Bud if he needed...
41:19for helping, you know, launching an attack or something.
41:23He says, I don't need any help on attacks.
41:25Somebody else said, he sure as hell doesn't.
41:27Probably.
41:29He just keeps his speed.
41:43He may be going in that second.
41:44We'll get him to roll.
41:46Our cabin, we should be staying in the tunnel next time.
41:49Elliot is going to be a strong advantage on this thing.
41:53We're pushing hard to get him on so far.
41:56is just awful damn good on this whole subject, because he knows it better than anybody.
42:01And he's smart.
42:03He really does.
42:03He knows it better than Henry, as far as from the public people.
42:07He knows what to say.
42:09Henry makes a brilliant virtuoso performance, but Henry never will do what I try to guide him a little bit as much as I can.
42:18He'll never sit down in advance and figure out, these are the four points I want to have shaken the public mind.
42:23He will not do that.
42:24This is a thing that Scali did.
42:26Remember him?
42:27Because he's disturbed because he wasn't brought in on this matter.
42:31He's right.
42:32He wasn't on the line.
42:33The super-secretary.
42:35Wasn't told about the speech?
42:37Yeah.
42:38Well, for Christ's sakes, I wouldn't think of telling him about it.
42:40But his point is, the exercise we went through at the staff meeting with Henry and the work we did afterwards could have been subverted, avoided, and we could have had Henry
42:52The day before, or earlier that day, instead of waiting until that time.
42:56We should have got a scallion on it earlier.
42:59No, I'm not going to get Scali on the writing of the speech.
43:02Oh, hell no.
43:03He didn't mean on writing the speech.
43:05Look, Scali has no thought of wanting to be part of making it.
43:08But the point is that I suggested you get him in the day before, remember?
43:14Yeah, but remember... Henry rejected it.
43:16He said, no, that we can't.
43:17We'll leave it to Ziegler, but not to Scali, because Scali will leave.
43:20Well, Scali makes the point that he knew about the talks, and he didn't really leave that.
43:25He knew about China, and he didn't really leave that.
43:30I do think he talks more than we want him to, maybe, or more than Henry wants him to, but he does it because he thinks he's doing the right thing.
43:39If he's told, this was the turn down, well, it turned down the right, because Henry's chipped up, but it was more luck than anything else.
43:46And Scali points out, it could have been better.
43:48For instance, he said, if I had been given some time on it, I could have developed a stronger case than we have of the president's direction of this thing.
43:58If we let too much come through, as Henry, I see Henry sees that, as Scali trying to undercut him.
44:03The point is, he's not.
44:05His point is, all of what Henry was talking, what Henry should have said is, and then the president sent me.
44:11And then when I reported back to the president, or I got back that night at midnight and went right up to the Lincoln sitting room where the president was waiting for me, the little personal touches of making it, you know, that you were pulling the set up instead of playing into the president's hands by, which they know is the truth, saying he did it all himself.
44:29But he didn't say that, in fairness.
44:33He didn't, but I mean, that's what they want to write.
44:35And they haven't been able to.
44:37He doesn't fall for that.
44:39We didn't fall for the negative side, but we did get as much of the positive as we could have.
44:43This is what John's pointing out.
44:45Well, what are you going to do about it?
44:46I've got to talk to him.
44:47I just can't get that response.
44:48I know.
44:49It's just, you've got to stay at it whenever it comes up.
44:53Back to hell.
44:54And I've just got to push on an individual basis.
44:57I think you're wrong about it.
44:58I know, I'm totally wrong.
44:59You know, it doesn't.
45:05That one's gone very rough on Scallion.
45:07He keeps being Henry.
45:08Oh, Christ.
45:12Which is just too damn bad.
45:13They're wrong.
45:14Just tell us.
45:15It would help Henry.
45:16Well, Henry's not good with everything right now.
45:20I mean, as I say, that's why he's... You'll read that first draft.
45:25You've got to read that.
45:27This is my order to read it.
45:28You get it from Sapphire, and you will see why Henry needs a Scallion to guide him.
45:36And before, Q&A.
45:37So Andy said, jeez, I didn't think.
45:41Like, he came up when Andy, that night before the speech, came up and talked to you.
45:45And you raised all those questions.
45:46And Andy said, gee, I never thought that if I couldn't explain it to you, how was I going to explain it to the other people?
45:51He changed it.
45:53Now, Scali would have gone at it that way, made the same comment.
45:58And Johnny has no thought of wanting to be
46:02a hand in the right hand position.
46:04Not because he can't, because I just can't have more than one person.
46:07He doesn't want that.
46:09But what he wants is, let me show you what you've got to be prepared for.
46:12That's right.
46:13He's right.
46:15Well, I can say this.
46:17We were lucky to come out as well as we did.
46:19Scali agrees with that.
46:20If we came out at the end, we could have come out better.
46:23He's right.
46:25Well, better.
46:26We still can't.
46:27There's still a position.
46:28I understand Scali's been around some.
46:31We've come on damn well.
46:34And there's no question.
46:34I mean, you really gotta get across that problem.
46:36I thought up the whole goddamn thing and it guided.
46:37You know, Henry, come back with these silly ass things.
46:39They wiggle.
46:40I mean, they're beginning to move.
46:42And I say, now, Henry, I don't see it that way.
46:49And a couple people, what do they really do that's different?
46:51You know, we used to go over this shit.
46:53That's what that means.
46:54It's very significant that they...
46:58waited three days longer to turn the thing down than they had the time before, where they usually only wait an hour and a half.
47:04They waited two hours and a half.
47:06Almost.
47:06He waited three days.
47:10Doesn't know.
47:12He just totally knows.
47:13He loves that stuff.
47:16He thinks those things are significant.
47:18They are not significant.
47:19Sometimes the time record counts.
47:22Or sometimes they just didn't get it done.
47:23And the guy really was sick and couldn't come to parenthood.
47:26Well, that probably was not true, but never.
47:30But the point, because they had plenty of time after that.
47:32Yeah.
47:33But the point is, Henry's whole deal is on this, that where he tries, he likes to think, because he's, for a very nice little position, so they actually do some good.
47:44He knows that.
47:47He knows a deep tap on it.
47:55Just use scouting wherever you can.
47:59And we just can't tolerate people telling them that they can do better than that, or questioning them.
48:06That's where he gets on up with Ron, because Ron bores in on tough questions and he gets mad.
48:10He does it with his own staff.
48:11You know, they don't understand.
48:14He says, what's the matter with you?
48:16He always comes down.
48:17We've got to go on the offensive.
48:19Yeah.
48:19He goes through that line this morning.
48:21Don't bother me with the trivia.
48:23We've got to go on the offensive.
48:25We've got to go on the attack.
48:32But we aren't enough.
48:33You've got to follow.
48:34You've got to follow.
48:39I must say, I'm so excited about this.
48:44I'm so excited about this.

Nixon, Haldeman & Ziegler on Marina von Neumann Whitman

AI Summary

Audio

Transcript (AI-generated)

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on January 28, 1972

Cite this conversation