Nixon, Kissinger & Barzel on Vietnam War and Soviet Union

1:00:13POW issued separately on May 31st.
1:00:15They totally rejected it, insisting that it had to be up to the political solution.
1:00:22From then on, we discussed on the basis of their own proposal.
1:00:26It is their proposal, which we have...
1:00:29Which all went into the ceasefire.
1:00:32And secondly, on the ceasefire, it is their point seven.
1:00:40So we are in good shape.
1:00:44to keep the offensive line.
1:00:44You see, what I see is that they are in touch with the American traders, giving them information and so forth.
1:00:54That's what they're trying to do.
1:00:57And of course, to put us into the position where I've told you all along, the one difficult wicket we have is that
1:01:05They put us in a position where the POWs are in line.
1:01:09We must not get on that with them, ever.
1:01:12If we do, we're killed when the POWs are shooting.
1:01:15See, the POWs used to say that.
1:01:16You can't see what I mean.
1:01:18So that's why that's why I want you to knock it down every time you get a chance.
1:01:23Don't let them ever get off the town.
1:01:26Now, the ceasefire thing doesn't bother me.
1:01:28I mean, most people are for a ceasefire.
1:01:30Well, if people say cease fire, that they will never attempt to cease fire, well, for Christ's sake, then, what the hell do they want the war to go on?
1:01:39We want to end the war and the likes of aggression and the rest want to continue.
1:01:44I said this to Clyman of the New York Times today when he called me.
1:01:48And I said, listen, Bob, you've been saying the war has to end for not only for Americans, but for Vietnamese when we do Vietnamization.
1:01:57You've got to apply the negotiation to we want to end it for Americans.
1:02:00For all.
1:02:01For everybody.
1:02:02Good.
1:02:02You see, that's the whole point.
1:02:04Those who oppose the ceasefire, we're for a ceasefire, and it's ending the war for all of Southeast Asia.
1:02:11Those who oppose the ceasefire...
1:02:12But what is the disgrace, really, is how your opponents, instead of taking pride, are looking for ways of...
1:02:21They are tougher on us than the North Vietnamese.
1:02:24Well, Lindner says they've rejected the proposal for the North Vietnamese to...
1:02:28They haven't rejected it yet.
1:02:30Oh, there's dairy bleeding today.
1:02:31They said, well, they were always ready to meet in November, but we can kill that.
1:02:36Ready to meet?
1:02:37Shit, they didn't tell us.
1:02:38Do you mean exactly?
1:02:40Oh, they said Swan Tree was ready to meet.
1:02:42Well, it takes one, three years.
1:02:44Well, you can't know it's already there.
1:02:45Exactly.
1:02:46That's interesting, though, what they're saying.
1:02:52But you see, Mr. President, they have...
1:02:53Which also means shows they want to use the...
1:02:56Of course.
1:02:57And yesterday they did not reject the proposal.
1:03:00They vilified you personally and said it was a maneuver and so forth, but they didn't reject it.
1:03:05And today, the task, the propter published an article from their task correspondent, Hanoi, saying Hanoi is giving the plan a tender consideration.
1:03:20I think this year we're going to settle it.
1:03:22We're going to get three out of three.
1:03:23I'm really quite confident, unless they succeed in their offensive.
1:03:26They haven't succeeded in their offensive.
1:03:29If they don't succeed in their offensive, then if we don't drag this, we won't.
1:03:32They haven't succeeded in their offensive.
1:03:36That's for sure.
1:03:36If our domestic situation holds, no problem.
1:03:38No problem.
1:03:38Our domestic situation is holding.
1:03:44It begins to go with this bomb war.
1:03:47That's what we're going to do.
1:03:51Let me tell you, we've got to remember that on the first of March, or the first of May, we can bomb the hell out of them.
1:04:01And we will.
1:04:02Here, fellas.
1:04:02Thanks.
1:04:03Mr. President.
1:04:04President.
1:04:04Mr. Parcell.
1:04:05I just argued with him, and I'm not even going to say anything.
1:04:07Dr. Teta.
1:04:08Good morning, Mr. President.
1:04:08How are you, Mr. President?
1:04:11Dr. Teta.
1:04:24The two of us, this is the rest.
1:04:31We won't need you.
1:04:35I hate you.
1:04:36We'll let you keep the record.
1:04:43You keep the record.
1:04:50Yeah, Oscar.
1:04:56I'm very grateful that you invited me to the new presidential election.
1:05:01And I'm also glad that you're happy to have our participation in the new election.
1:05:10I'm glad that you've found a way to honor me.
1:05:16And I don't want you to allow me, because you're not American,
1:05:26But we are all aware of these things.
1:05:30They would be happy to see what the military has done.
1:05:34They know that everything is going to be more difficult in Europe.
1:05:38They are happy to get America to take over the strategy in Vietnam.
1:05:42I think they have set a very clear point that no one can overlook.
1:05:50Well, first of all, I'd like to thank you, Mr. President, for having suggested to me to come over here and visit in my new capacity, and I would like to express my appreciation for you, sir, and for that of Russia, and for making my contribution and share the burden of the racial and communication I see.
1:06:11I take this opportunity, even as a non-American, I may be permitted to congratulate you on what you stated to me recently concerning Vietnam, because this is a problem that affects all of us.
1:06:25And I think the position you took gave us a little more freedom of thinking.
1:06:30Of course, we are, over there in the United States of America, we are friends with the Americans.
1:06:37We are friends with the Americans.
1:06:39We also realized what was going to happen to Vietnam, so I can agree with you that you may will have this war.
1:06:48Good.
1:06:49Hans, I beg you, is there anything else you'd like to say?
1:06:52I'm glad to have seen you at the late hour of the war.
1:06:57I think it was important, because I had a feeling of frustration in Europe, because Europe is the shadow of the Soviet Union.
1:07:06And if you look at it for a long time, it is important that you, Mr. President, once again, as at the beginning of your time here, stay in Europe.
1:07:25I would like to add that I was very delighted when you last year took the initiative and invited European heads to meet with you.
1:07:33I think that's a very important step, since there was a feeling of frustration in Europe that has of the Soviet Union, of Europe, in Europe, right?
1:07:49And, from my point of view, this is the most important thing at the moment.
1:07:57Perhaps in this year or later, very closely organized cooperation between the community and the USA as a stable, lasting factor in world politics
1:08:19I know that in a few years there will be no orientation.
1:08:39From my point of view, it's extremely important that, perhaps not this year and the next year, but based on cooperation between the European community and the United States of America, organized and structured in a very visible way so people can see that based on cooperation between the United States and the United States.
1:09:00European community as a stable and enduring element of world policies.
1:09:05Of course, this would enable us also to discuss together such problems as development aid, environmental problems, all those problems which would come under what I would call domestic, global domestic policy.
1:09:21And I think it's important that there should be
1:09:25Thailand should be made visible, perhaps not in an election year.
1:09:29I understand that no new subject will be introduced in an election year, but I think the problem should be kept silent.
1:09:38Well, of course, the initiative must come from the Europeans, and that will be the subject of what we're going to work on in the coming weeks and months.
1:09:54And this European policy is therefore important because the Moscow people know it.
1:10:00I was very surprised that Moscow said such harsh words to me against the European community.
1:10:07Of course, I expected something different from what my government was preparing for.
1:10:11Of course, the Moscow people will not be absent from the European community, but the Russians told me that it would be a hostile thing to do in this business.
1:10:25Well, this European box is very important, as the President said afterwards.
1:10:36Of course, the Russians are fighting this tendency towards very European unity, and I was well surprised at the toughness of their words when I spoke to them in Moscow.
1:10:48They didn't like the idea at all, and I had expected something different from the base of what our government said.
1:10:58But the country was true.
1:10:59They were one hostile and antagonistic as opposed to the European economic community.
1:11:05And that is why this is very important.
1:11:09And when I say this at the end, I feel your political presence here.
1:11:15I think it's great to be here.
1:11:18And I would like to say that you will of course see the other side of the East.
1:11:55personal words.
1:11:56I personally feel a particular impact of the policy you have initiated with regard to China.
1:12:04Of course, I came to contact people approaching me on behalf of the EU, and they said, not intentionally, they were already considering
1:12:14recognizing the European community, standing in advancement there, unlike the Russians who wouldn't do that.
1:12:20Well, so this is an expression of things starting to move, because things are starting to move, and I think the European policy in Canada is not going to bypass this.
1:12:31I think we ought to know how it relates to the international climate of Beijing.
1:12:36But all this, I feel, is the result of the policy you have been initiating, Mr. President.
1:12:43And that's a very good result.
1:12:47You will be in Beijing soon, and I will be in Moscow.
1:12:52I hope this will be a success.
1:12:55But I believe that I will be in Moscow if the intentions do not change.
1:13:02and the tone became more pleasant.
1:13:05And the war in Germany is in progress.
1:13:10It's indisputable.
1:13:11And because I speak so frankly, I fear that the goal of the people is to neutralize Germany.
1:13:18And to create a mood in Germany now is so exciting that you don't need any money for soldiers, or any money for the people.
1:13:34Yes, I feel it.
1:13:35Because this relaxation is not specifically measurable.
1:13:37And if you have nothing else to say, if you don't want to ask, you can do it yourself.
1:13:45Mr. Kosinski said to me when I was shooting in front of the wall, that he was a normal person.
1:13:53But I don't have any questions about reading the book at all.
1:14:02You will soon go to Haiti and Moscow and I hope your business trip will be successful.
1:14:08Though I believe that there has been no change whatsoever in Russian intentions, the tone has been more friendly, but I think the fight for Germany is underway now.
1:14:19Since we're speaking frankly, candidly, I say the objective of the Russians, their intention is the neutralization of the Federal Republic of Germany.
1:14:30First, they want to create a move in Germany that has enough detail and relaxation of tension where there's no government necessary.
1:14:38to spend as much money on services, on armaments, and so on.
1:14:44And this, they're aiming to ruin the alliance, and this is a very dangerous, frightening problem, because you cannot measure data.
1:14:52You cannot measure it.
1:14:55I'm sorry to give you one example, unless you have a question in that nature, Mr. President.
1:15:00Mr. Cassini said to me when I had read the war in Berlin and the shooting that was still going on along the wall, well, he said, this is an ordinary frontier.
1:15:09This is an ordinary frontier.
1:15:11Obviously, he had read the book, How Can We Know the Rest?
1:15:23The President's attitude was extremely hard.
1:15:30Despite the change, and there is some change in tone of Soviet students, as far as substance is concerned,
1:15:46There has been no change in their attitude toward the free European community.
1:15:56They consider it antagonistic to their interests.
1:15:58And the heart of that community is a republic.
1:16:06Their goal is to try to weaken the Federal Republic's ties to the rest of freedom and to, in their eye, weaken the community.
1:16:28This is the Soviet...
1:16:33had been a Soviet policy for the last 20 years and continues to be a Soviet policy.
1:16:45Well, I'm sorry to say I have to agree with what you say.
1:16:49I'd prefer to say it's a Soviet policy.
1:16:52Yes.
1:16:52I think what we have now is a situation, however rare,
1:16:59the Soviets' change in combat, and looking toward the future, possibly some change in substance, possible, but uncommon, is greatly influenced by the threat of the East.
1:17:20They are very much concerned, they're paranoid about the
1:17:29the Chinese on the eastern part, or just as the Chinese are very much concerned about the Soviet on the western part.
1:17:36And so each of these two great powers must make its accommodations in other areas.
1:17:46Accommodations they don't even consider in order to
1:17:55deal with what they believe is the Patriot drug, which is the Soviet, the East, the Chinese, and the Chinese and Soviet.
1:18:05That's the overrunning fact in foreign affairs today.
1:18:10I think too that the, looking at the Soviet, that their desire for a taunt,
1:18:22if there is such desire, with Europe, and with the federal republic, has a lot more to do with China than it has to do with Europe.
1:18:47Deep down, they consider the free European community as their opponent.
1:18:53And it is their desire to fragment it.
1:18:56On the other hand, tactically, at the present time, they don't want trouble in Europe.
1:19:04They don't want trouble in the Middle East, another area of possible confrontation here with the United States.
1:19:14And so,
1:19:15But the reason they do not want trouble in the Middle East, the reason they do not want trouble in Europe is not because of their desire to have good relations in the Middle East and in Europe, but because they do not want to have another front.
1:19:33At a time that their primary concern is China.
1:19:36Now that's one analysis that may be wrong, may be fresh and unseemly at all.
1:19:46looking down the road field at the top of Europe is a good end in itself for them.
1:19:57As we may consider it to be a good end in itself for us.
1:20:01You consider that too.
1:20:03But that is the great unanswered question.
1:20:07And certainly as far as I'm concerned in my travels to both Beijing and Moscow, I will go there recognizing that
1:20:16They are seeing me for their reasons.
1:20:19And I will be seeing them for my reasons.
1:20:22Some of our naive Americans, unfortunately, and most American intellectuals are hopelessly naive.
1:20:33Because they're very good for the best of reasons.
1:20:35They're just, peace is wonderful.
1:20:39Everybody should love each other.
1:20:40The only reason people have differences is that they don't know each other.
1:20:44We all spoke the same language.
1:20:46We all were as well educated as we should be.
1:20:49That's true.
1:20:49This is not true.
1:20:50Of course, there will always be conflict in the world.
1:20:53There is a chance that in our time, that conflict
1:21:09as far as major powers are concerned, will never escalate to arms because of the loss of power in the nuclear weapon.
1:21:18But we must have no illusions that even among nations, three nations,
1:21:27And with common philosophical ideas, we'll have competition.
1:21:34Competition which will be bargain-hard with regard to devaluation, bargain-hard with regard to trade, and so forth.
1:21:43It's inevitable.
1:21:44And not bad.
1:21:47So I come back to the proposition that
1:21:52that currently now finds itself in a very delicate position.
1:21:56We understand that position.
1:21:59When I spoke to the Chancellor, and I will say to you what I said to him, we, I speak now of the United States, have of course a great interest in the world itself.
1:22:17we believe that that settlement, looking at it apart from the German treaty, which is another matter, that that settlement, if adhered to carefully by both sides, may be beneficial, wouldn't it?
1:22:35So we won't have a Brazilian crisis every three or four months.
1:22:39And if so, that's a step forward.
1:22:42On the German treaty problem,
1:22:45This is something else.
1:22:48This is something which is basically a terminal problem.
1:22:56Our attitude, therefore, is that it would be improper for us to try to influence the outcome of the debate on the treaty.
1:23:11We realize that, very honest to people,
1:23:16the Federal Republic, with whom we are trying to be frank and we try to be frank with all of them.
1:23:22But very honestly, we have very sharp disagreements about the treaty.
1:23:26But that is a matter that we feel that you and
1:23:32your colleagues in your party, and perhaps his colleagues in his party, have got to debate, find it out, and then make a decision.
1:23:41When the decision is made, we will accept the will of the majority, even whatever it is.
1:23:49But we have, we realize that it is a very big problem.
1:23:59We also know that
1:24:02And like all those questions, no one can be really sure.
1:24:09Ron, I'm sure, believes that he is absolutely right on the course he is taking.
1:24:16And I think after you had your conversation with Mr. Sagan and found him to be so tough that you have raved out because you see it first the Russians,
1:24:33are in no way picking up on their total opposition to the European community and their refusal to recognize it.
1:24:41And the federal republics are in it.
1:24:46And also, it's your view, and after your conversation with him, that the permanent division of Germany is now
1:25:02after the treaty would be a foregone conclusion.
1:25:05Nothing, from that I don't know of.
1:25:10Now, it is not for us, here in this place, to try to judge that question.
1:25:22And we will not judge it.
1:25:25All that I will say, and I have said this before, and I will say it to you, is that
1:25:33The Germans are the most productive and the strongest people in freedom.
1:25:40The Germans are our close friends and allies.
1:25:44A strong, healthy, free federal republic is essential for the survival of freedom.
1:25:55And we would hope that in this great debate that goes on, whatever comes out of it, that that fact is recognized by all people, that they need to maintain the federal republic's firm ties to freedom and not to pay a price so great
1:26:24in order to have take on the East that you weaken your ties to free America.
1:26:32That's our position.
1:26:35But again, within that framework, honest men can disagree, and we understand that.
1:26:41And we'll stay out of that battle.
1:26:43Stay out of it, recognizing that you're going to have to debate with me.
1:26:48Have a vote.
1:26:49We'll watch you with great interest.
1:26:51I would say, too, that
1:26:57So you will know, as I go to Moscow and in our discussions with Saul and all the rest, you can be sure that nothing will be done unilaterally on our part, or bilaterally with the Soviet Union, which would in any way weaken our commitment to NATO, to the alliance.
1:27:25For example, we have refused, we will continue to refuse to discuss any reduction of forces in the Native community apart from and over the heads of our Native allies.
1:27:41That's not a subject at this time of consideration, so it will not be a subject that I will discuss when I go to Moscow.
1:27:48The other point that should be made is that we will, with regard to something like the European Security Conference, we're not going to walk into that door
1:27:59And to use an American quote or expression, I've taken a poke.
1:28:04What we are going to do, I've taken a poke.
1:28:06It's a, it means a, you know what I mean?
1:28:10So we've had some stuff in the last few years.
1:28:15Yeah.
1:28:16Anyway, I'll be with you.
1:28:21I don't know if you can see this, but anyway, it's an expression that's used primarily in the South.
1:28:28The farmers aren't a farm.
1:28:31You use it with your farmers.
1:28:32It's a great thing to understand.
1:28:35Take that forward.
1:28:39We will consider it.
1:28:43We will discuss it with our friends.
1:28:55But to just say, well, it's not the European Security Conference is not the line to take until we've had a chance to see what the conference is going to be about.
1:29:06That's our position.
1:29:07I mean, I see that you were in the front.
1:29:10You were not in the front.
1:29:13I think I have stated very clearly what our policy is here.
1:29:19I told the chancellor I was going to talk to you, and so he knows that we're trying to stay out of our internal human problem.
1:29:29What you've been making in the meetings with the other heads of government, and I think that's what you also made to the chancellor,
1:29:36The Soviet tactic, as the President pointed out, is to achieve through this moment what they have previously tried to attract.
1:30:07The only way he can resist it is to turn the old industry to complete opposition.
1:30:14The European Security Conference, as long as it is not invented and struck, creates the illusion of progress without the reality.
1:30:21And therefore, it will convince us all the country that name was no longer necessary for America.
1:30:29So our policy is, as the President pointed out to all the other heads of government,
1:30:36that we are intrinsically not against this encounter.
1:30:41But we want a precise agenda, and we want to agree with our allies ahead of time what the agenda should be.
1:30:49In order to avoid this,
1:30:51It was a rather meaningful meeting, so to say.
1:30:55And this is why being unasked was a monster for me.
1:30:59When he was sitting in this chair a few months ago, I said, you know, Mr. Boardmaster, he said, well, can I say we're a board conference in principle?
1:31:07And I said, uh,
1:31:10I said, no, because we can't say we're for anything in principle.
1:31:14So we know what the thing is.
1:31:16And basically, our position is that we could have a situation that's .
1:31:23I said, however, we will consider it.
1:31:35provided we find that it would serve a useful purpose.
1:31:43But I always use the term, we are not for any conference for the sake of a conference.
1:31:49That means not just because when you have a conference for the sake of a conference, it creates great illusions.
1:31:58The danger, come on, exists.
1:32:00And what keeps the West together is the fact that the danger really exists.
1:32:06And that makes sense.
1:32:09We hope it does.
1:32:10But it will influence on the part of our Soviet friends.
1:32:16Not because of love, because of fear, necessity.
1:32:21And it would be a virtue to say that.
1:32:24I mean, they're very pragmatic people.
1:32:27I mean, we must admit that a lot of it has distinguished from some of the American idealism.
1:32:33Our communist friends quite deliberately try to get their opps to the end.
1:32:41Now, that doesn't mean that we consider them enemies.
1:32:46That term is no longer going to be used.
1:32:48But it does mean that we recognize that our interests are different.
1:32:54And wherever our interests lie,
1:33:04Each for different reasons, but we'll work together.
1:33:07Like, we think it's an average scenario to have a Berlin Agreement.
1:33:10And these constant flare-ups are too dangerous.
1:33:15We think it's an average scenario to have a Mideast Agreement.
1:33:18It's too dangerous.
1:33:20Europe is another matter.
1:33:21It's a matter that, first of all, is a German problem, which the Germans must decide.
1:33:28So I'm interested in getting at this.
1:33:32Uh, I think it's safe to say that the president is probably the most unsentimental national leader who to have dealt with it.
1:33:42And when we came in, we were flooded with advice.
1:33:44The president was under great pressure to make these changes.
1:33:47It was a cultural exchange and so forth.
1:33:52The president has always stated to you, he just explained to you, there must be concrete progress on various things here to go.
1:33:59In fact,
1:34:00We have made more progress on an agenda of concrete items.
1:34:04I think that any American post-war administration without great fanfare and without great sentimentality and pretense of good personal relations.
1:34:17Well, they are basically, and I think this is a part of individuals.
1:34:21Individually, take Mr. DeBringer, the ambassador, for being black and under, and being controlled and all that.
1:34:31I have no illusions about what they're up to, and they have no illusions about what I'm up to.
1:34:39That is not the point.
1:34:43It is a situation where they are, insofar as there are changes to their concern, totally unsettled.
1:34:53The technology of too many leaders in the West, particularly of this country,
1:34:58is that we have felt that they have, some of our leaders have felt that if you have good personal relations, talking about your grandchildren and all that, that that can be translated into good relations on substance.
1:35:13So my whole philosophy is you best have the best possible personal relations so that they can talk about substance in a friendly atmosphere.
1:35:26But on substance, it's totally impersonal, totally practical.
1:35:32That's what they are, that's what we are.
1:35:33That's what we're going to do every day.
1:35:35I am very happy that you are listening to all this from the Deadline.
1:35:38It is a great relief for you.
1:35:40And I hope that in the future, the separation and the spreading of forms that you have brought with you or that you can do, that you can do.
1:35:55It's a different thing.
1:35:57We have tried a little to evoke the impression that our responsibility is in a different position.
1:36:06That's what we could say.
1:36:08Maybe it's only important to say something about Narkosik.
1:36:14We had a very careful conversation, where we touched on a lot of things.
1:36:20He told me, war in Europe is madness.
1:36:25And then something should come to mind.
1:36:26I think it's a surprise.
1:36:29It's a fact.
1:36:29It's going on right now.
1:36:32And then you change the subject.
1:36:34But it's not your fault.
1:36:36It's your fault.
1:36:42Well, I was very grateful to hear that from you, and that comforts me very much, and it was very kind of you to separate between the birds and the green, and we're kind enough to appreciate the share I had to bring this about and other things.
1:37:00Well, sometimes it tends to happen that you really take the impression, I say, that Washington was looking differently in the situation, but after this conversation,
1:37:09and how long it would be maintained.
1:37:11As regards to Mr. Castigliani, I would like to make one point, and maybe have some reports next to the airport, have a visit.
1:37:18We had long talks, very carefully phrased and worded into each word and manner.
1:37:25And he said the war in Europe would be a folly.
1:37:29And I said, everywhere in the world, war would be a folly.
1:37:34Because that was just the title of the war in India program.
1:37:38He talked the subject.
1:37:39He changed the subject immediately.
1:37:41Much of that was a very indisputable reaction.
1:37:45But the thing is, war is a folly.
1:37:48It involves you in one that can be detrimental to your income.
1:37:57But where war serves their purpose, I'm speaking of, I think I'm trying to look into his mind and accept it.
1:38:09Maybe the war in India, they felt served their purpose.
1:38:12Certainly they think the war in Vietnam serves their purpose.
1:38:16But war in Europe, as long as we
1:38:21Solidarity would not serve their purpose, because the cost of the risk is too great.
1:38:26And on the same token, I think I would say that war in the East would not serve their purpose.
1:38:31That's only provided we keep a solid line.
1:38:34That's the way we have to look at it.
1:38:37And in the meantime, however, we do have hopes that this conference with the Russians will produce results, mainly because it did not sound that way.
1:38:48We're going to talk about a number of very important subjects, arts and education, trade, and so forth.
1:38:54And it will be good if the two featured authors can begin to make some progress.
1:39:00Because of necessity, not based on sentimentality.
1:39:06Sentimental in our personal relations, but totally pragmatic on substance, as I follow.
1:39:14but it's allowing me a lot of attention to hide.
1:39:19I think he should not be a cop, but it's not enough.
1:39:46I don't get it.
1:39:50Why?
1:39:51I don't get it.
1:39:52I'm not talented enough to pursue a seasonal policy.
1:40:03And, uh, the caricature of mine now, which I carry on now, is that I believe I am the leader of the Western Party in the federal republic, and that is what I will continue to do.
1:40:17Well, I, uh...
1:40:20I said this in the presence of many who were in the Army, but there were a few giants, and he was one.
1:40:29And he was also my personal runner.
1:40:36And I remember in that connection, and it's of you leaders to know that
1:40:42Two men who both of them, I would think, we'd have to arrange a chance, had an army call independently in 1963 when I visited them, and again in 1967 when I visited them.
1:40:55I asked about Soviet-American relations and American-Chinese relations, and these two wise men both said,
1:41:07Well, obviously, we can't tell the United States what they ought to do, but we think it would be a great mistake to have an associated American condominium, or for that matter, an American-Chinese condominium.
1:41:22He says, where you have these two great powers, you should seek to have relations with both.
1:41:32You're right.
1:41:33That's what he tried to do in 1958.
1:41:38The first time I met Arden, he said to me, America must make a opening towards China.
1:41:45Did he?
1:41:46And China and Russia are not a natural relationship.
1:41:50And I frankly thought he was a little bit mad because at that time, everyone thought that they were always getting out of it.
1:42:00Well, I had a good time.
1:42:01It was great.
1:42:06It's the possibility of a break-washing glass, and I thought it was so fair.
1:42:21But what's the matter?
1:42:22You hear that?
1:42:23Oh, God.
1:42:24Don't make any comments to that.
1:42:28I thought it was going to be larger than it was supposed to be.
1:42:34What did he, what did Harrison say?
1:42:46I don't know.
1:43:03If I am, would I take seriously what is said in the independent constitution and declaration of independence of this country?
1:43:21and that is respect for human rights and human dignity.
1:43:24That was my answer to this question.
1:43:26But it's like a client force, as you mentioned.
1:43:30It's kind of a problem, as you mentioned, but it's in my mind.
1:43:32I think there will be a time when we can claim that was even modest progress for the human being.
1:43:38Our policy must be made for the sake of human beings.
1:43:43at least to achieve something comparable to what the four parties have achieved in favor of Berlin.
1:43:52But I don't think it was very successful.
1:43:57I think that there's more a question of natural problems, not so much one of the political problems.
1:44:12And you said you gave me a coin.
1:44:18There's the money, but for you.
1:44:20Well, we give my best to all of our friends.
1:44:28The main thing is that we
1:44:35The federal republic must survive.
1:44:37It's a free, strong country, and it's a part of the free world.
1:44:42That's our goal.
1:44:43Now, how do you work that out?
1:44:45It's your business.
1:44:46Thank you.
1:44:47Thank you.
1:44:49Thank you.
1:44:52Thank you.
1:44:53Thank you.

Nixon, Kissinger & Barzel on Vietnam War and Soviet Union

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Also recorded on January 28, 1972

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