Conversation 663-004

TapeTape 663StartTuesday, February 1, 1972 at 3:02 PMEndTuesday, February 1, 1972 at 4:00 PMTape start time00:26:24Tape end time01:27:20ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Reagan, Ronald W.;  Mitchell, John N.;  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob");  White House photographer;  Bull, Stephen B.;  Evans, Daniel J.;  Hodgson, James D.;  Shultz, George P.Recording deviceOval Office

On February 1, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald W. Reagan, John N. Mitchell, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House photographer, Stephen B. Bull, Daniel J. Evans, James D. Hodgson, and George P. Shultz met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:02 pm to 4:00 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 663-004 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 663-4

Date: February 1, 1972
                                             4

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. 10/06)



Time: 3:02 pm - 4:00 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Ronald W. Reagan, John N. Mitchell and H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman; the
White House photographer and members of the press were present at the beginning of the
meeting.

     Appointments
         -Atomic Energy Commission [AEC]
              -Woman [Jane Hall]
                   -Los Alamos
                   -Symbolism
                   -Supreme Court
                   -Martha (Beall) Mitchell
                   -Council of Economic Advisors [CEA]
                         -Marina von N. Whitman
                               -John von Neumann
                   -John Lawrence, James R. Schlesinger
                   -California

Haldeman left at an unknown time before 3:29 pm.

     Domestic problems
         -Washington Post
         -Congressional testimony
               -Senate Finance Committee
                    -Welfare reform and Family Assistance Plan [FAP]
                    -Karl E. Mundt
               -San Clemente
         -President’s desire for full employment
               -Abraham A. Ribicoff
                    -Trial cases
         -Welfare
               -Russell B. Long
         -Upcoming spending plans
               -Amount of savings
         -C5A spending
               -West Germany
               -Japan
               -Melvin R. Laird initiative
                    -Reagan’s opinion
                                        5

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                               Tape Subject Log
                                 (rev. 10/06)
                                                                Conv. No. 663-4 (cont.)


                -North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]
                -Technical problems
                      -Amount of allocations
                      -Solutions
                            -Rolls Royce Motors
                                 -Northup
          -Employment benefits
          -Arms race implications
                -Japan
          -Laird role
          -John B. Connally
                -Role
     -Defensive posture
          -NATO
                -Joseph M. Luns
          -President’s instructions
                -Reagan’s upcoming conversation with [David] Kenneth Rush
                -Rush’s location

Economy
    -Concern of businessmen
         -Call to Reagan from Reed Kaiser [?] [sp?]
         -State of the Union address
         -Budget message
         -Justin W. Dart
         -Deficit spending
               -Depressive effect
               -Reagan’s opinion
               -Possible speech by the President
                     -Compared to the President’s Vietnam peace proposal speech,
                           January 25, 1972
    -Economic outlook
         -Deficits
               -Compared to Lyndon B. Johnson
               -Inflation
               -Full employment
               -Demand for labor
               -Expert view
         -Budget
               -Possible broadcast
                     -Dart
                                            6

                        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. 10/06)
                                                                    Conv. No. 663-4 (cont.)


                         -1968 elections
                    -Employment
                    -Defense
              -President’s meeting with Reagan concerning People’s Republic of China
                    [PRC]
                    -Taiwan, Republic of China


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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[National Security]
[Duration: 10s ]


    CHINA


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

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              -Difficulty of deficit problem
                    -Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1958
                          -Comparisons

    California Republican Assembly [CRA]
          -Background
               -Conservatives
                     -Number of members
          -Executive board meeting
               -Harry S. Dent
          -Forthcoming convention
               -Invitation to President
               -Scheduling
                     -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
               -[Forename unknown] Colbert [?]


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                                               7

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 10/06)
                                                               Conv. No. 663-4 (cont.)



BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Political Returnable]
[Duration: 1m 21s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

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     Forthcoming Republican governors dinner
          -Reagan
          -Nelson A. Rockefeller
          -Linwood Holton
          -William G. Milliken


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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[Political Returnable]
[Duration: 59s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4

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     Daniel J. Evans

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 3:02 pm.

     The President’s schedule

Bull left at an unknown time before 3:29 pm.

     Dock strike
         -Congress
         -Harry Bridges
                                                8

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 10/06)
                                                                     Conv. No. 663-4 (cont.)


                -Labor division
                -Talk with the President in Oregon
                -Age
           -Federal Mediation and Conciliation Services

     Vietnam
          -President’s peace proposal
          -Proposal for resolutions before California legislation
                -American people
                -Media coverage
                     -Press release

Evans, James D. Hodgson and George P. Shultz entered at 3:29 pm; the White House
photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting.

     Greetings

     Dock strike
         -Legal aspects

Mitchell left at 3:29 pm.

     Dock strike negotiations
         -Coal mine

     [Photograph session]

     Dock strike negotiations
         -Long range problems
                -Legislation from Congress
         -Short range problems
                -Need for action
                -Taft-Hartley Act
                -Senate
                      -Alan Cranston
                           -President’s opinion
                      -Democratic presidential candidates
                           -Organized labor
                                 -Taft-Hartley Act
         -Teamsters Union
         -Negotiation status
                                      9

                NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                             Tape Subject Log
                               (rev. 10/06)
                                                        Conv. No. 663-4 (cont.)


      -Bridges
            -Length of negotiations
                  -Possible union mergers
-Congressional action
      -Comparison to the East Coat
      -East compared to West Coast
            -“Continental Gap”
                  -Possible settlement
                        -Jurisdiction issue
                        -Barry M. Goldwater
                        -Elliot L. Richardson
                        -Telegram
                        -Motion picture studio strike
                              -Hardhats
                        -Reagan’s talk with Bridges
                        -Compared to 1950 situation
-President’s concern
      -Use in public statements
      -Need for more attention to West
            -Recognition by Congress
            -Washington
            -California
            -Oregon
            -Hawaii
            -Wyoming
            -Utah
                  -Possible impact on western states
-Agriculture
      -Wheat
      -Corn
-Congressional concern
      -Press
      -Possible action
            -Proposed legislation in the West
                  -Cranston
                  -Jack Williams of Arizona
      -Hearings
      -Possible formula
      -Railroad Labor Act
      -Taft-Hartley Act
            -Approach to Congress from President
                                          10

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                  Tape Subject Log
                                    (rev. 10/06)
                                                                Conv. No. 663-4 (cont.)


          -Inaction
                -Possible results of strikes
                -Congressional vacation
                     -Lincoln Day
                     -Mike McCormack
                     -Clark MacGregor
                     -Frank E. Evans
          -Railroad and trucking strikes
     -Labor problems
     -Economic effect of strike
          -Europe
          -Great Britain
                -Possible problems
     -Reagan’s experience
          -General Electric [GE]
                -1958
          -Motion picture studio strike

Welfare
     -Benefits of plan
     -Medicaid
          -Ribicoff
                -Former role
                       -Department of Health, Education, and Welfare [HEW]
                -Congressional pilot program
          -Eligibility
                -Disabled
                -Reagan’s opinion
          -Waivers
          -Cost of living increase
                -Wages
                       -Percentage
                            -Evans’s comments

Abortion
     -Law
     -Liberal ideas
     -Reasons
     -Medicaid
     -Number
     -Welfare rolls
                                              11

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                        Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. 10/06)
                                                                      Conv. No. 663-4 (cont.)


           -Property rights of unborn

     Well wishes from the President
          -Forthcoming dinner

Reagan, et al. left at 4:00 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

I'll tell you what you do.
I'll tell you what you do.
She's qualified.
Her father was John, my father.
I've been raising him.
I'm a career physicist.
She's, she's, she is.
I have been trying two and a half hours before with that financial committee on the welfare reform.
And the family assistance plan took quite a beating.
But before I got through, it was all right.
But after a month, I tried to press me and tried to put me in a position that I was being used as a wedge.
The concept of will is very important.
In the beginning, you closed out the same
You were still dedicated to that idea.
That doesn't bother anybody.
Try it.
Instead, explain it to us.
That's why we're acknowledging.
I have a message to share with regard to the
$25,000.
Here's the insurance plan.
They don't care.
Rest assured, the metal wire is not trying to slow us down.
We're going to try to solve the last part.
Can we open up the arms, Brady?
I'll tell you that.
It won't happen.
Unfortunately, I've got to lose.
I'll just...
We need this contract.
Okay.
Yes, sir.
We need this contract.
And he had a call from Lee, kind of sure about getting half of them to contact himself from around the country.
We're disaffected right now.
See if we can set up a meeting and let them express what their concerns are today.
And he called home a collectively state of the union address because he, for one thing, expressed great concerns about the defense process.
some of our most solid business types.
The kind that, the Justin Docks, the guys like this, are terribly concerned about the deficit.
You get me?
Now, I didn't know something, and so I, if I'm right in the supposition, then I would like to leap over some expenses and get something.
We do.
They're fighting the course of the great deficits, and they have
Can you see the thing of, well, what are we doing different than the other thousands?
And I have to take a lean position in the kind of conversation that here is an American situation, and number one here is the inflation strike that hasn't been made.
But on top of that came the switch to the baseline economy, and that if this country is suddenly the biggest customer in the world, we're going to have to pull the rug out from under it.
We can have a full-scale depression.
Yes, we have to do what we're doing because of the situation.
But a reaffirmation of the fact that no one, like a family, that gets out of the hole that's already within our control.
And we're going to do that.
Mr. President, there is a forum where you are going to be speaking, where you can do a challenge in what you did with the other.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is John's desk.
Because what it does is simply add demand for labor and everything else, right?
I hear a broadcast where you explain this situation.
to prove what he said it was.
Yes, I think there's more.
There's still a lingering feeling that it's what's really not a great point.
Yes, we should all be somewhat introduced.
In April, they have a big convention.
Now, as I understand it, there is an invitation to you.
Obviously, this is something for you to do.
But in my experience, as a vice president,
All right.
Oh, this wouldn't be a problem.
I mean, you'd expect an engagement to sound like this.
You check it out, John.
Try to get it.
If you do, uh, we'll take a look.
Get him up.
Get him up top of the bugger.
If you've been told about her, then why do you have to tell?
and their names will be in the program.
And this program is the honorary collection
That's a kind of a good idea.
Why don't you think about it?
I didn't listen and I almost had to escape.
I almost had to.
Isn't that great?
And you know, you need to let new people go.
Now the excitement of being a
Thank you.
Please distract me.
Check it out, Ron.
When I say we, uh...
Sure.
On this body, it's just a couple of bags.
I was going to say that an hour and a half was spent figuring about the fact that the DMA put an ad in the paper saying that they are, whether or not the DMA has the right to do that, the people that have been around, the British and that kind of thing, both aspects.
This is the process of any kind.
And here, we've got to keep losing time.
In fact, we've got to leave about 30 minutes to make sure that we don't get back to the same old way.
So that's really the only thing that's possible in America.
We've got to be involved in the bad acting economy of America.
What would the governor say would be helpful to the cause?
They want to get the man strangled.
What would he say that would be helpful and responsible?
That they'd be not on that.
You know, we're carrying a big business.
We're carrying a great income.
That's good.
And so, in certain cases, we might want to give this to the Congress.
We've got to go to the church.
And if you want to do that, draw something, I think, in there.
And the Navy has virtually had that settled with the Jurisdiction Commission.
It has provided a potential basis that removes that combined problem.
And the rest of the tickets are pretty much not here, at least not at all.
Because there's still a lot of juice in that offer, you know.
And so, the mall that's lacking in something to satisfy it is internal.
Thank you.
that somebody put a thing down that I was going to work on, that it would be easy to tell them that all of you did a good job.
Thank you for your praise.
Praise the task force.
I don't know whether I don't know whether I don't know whether I don't know whether
Scott and Stark pay more attention to the West.
Something like that.
But you never get what you need to do.
You're not going to stand up to the French.
You're not going to stand up to the French.
You're not going to stand up to the French.
You're not going to stand up to the French.
You're not going to stand up to the French.
I'm worried, worried.
What are they going to do?
I don't know.
I mean, his first business today, they happened to hit with the other three.
So, all of a sudden, he was a little more sensitive on this thing called that.
And so, that's kind of weird for many of his start meetings.
Now, talking about the whole thing, you've got a family that are sleeping in this.
You've got people that are sleeping in this.
You know, this is a very long-term situation.
You and this are going to use them on a general risk, but that's all.
Yeah.
Did you have a selection here to be insured?
You know, it provides for arbitration for some of these things, which we may have to have.
But it would have to do with the fact that it would replace the Regulatory Act, which then would allow you to replace this option, too.
But if you've been in this business, I'd be thanking you to say there's a challenge in not doing that.
The deal with distant strength would be sterilizing.
And, you know, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
So this is what you need to do here.
Your point is that this is a, this is a, this is a, this is a, this is a, this is a,
It's copped out.
That's what it is.
The Congress is copped out.
It's a responsibility.
And there are thousands of people who lose hundreds of millions of dollars in jobs being lost, crops being lost, and all that.
This idea of an impermanent money-making is wrong.
The Kyrie, that's pretty shocking.
That's a terrible business.
And they're going to go off on vacation a week.
One week, one week we're going off on a vacay for ten days.
A vacay.
And for the Congress, the Congress must pass before it takes its next vacay.
It's like a vacay, you know.
The Congress must pass before it takes its next vacay.
The Congress must pass before it takes its next vacay.
What's, um, something like that?
There was a potential of, uh, kind of use of the sheriff's team in the house there.
Uh, I don't know why, I don't know what they were working on, but if they were willing to, uh, one thing I thought of, if that was needed to be, yeah, there was a chance to get the sheriff's team right in front of some of our conversations.
If we plow the river in the ground, we could have done it too.
It's not going to be easy.
We're in our fourth district here, where we've got some Democrats coming from the right-wing country, and we've got a great guy playing against them.
They're getting us going our way, and we need to look at where we're going with this guy.
We've got to put a necessary petition in front of that guy.
There's no way he can do the right thing.
I'm going to go with the Labor Party.
We've got an old week by the hour.
And I'm going to go with the Labor Party.
I'm going to go with the Labor Party.
I'm going to go with the Labor Party.
I'm going to stand and I'm going to just be there.
I'm going to move back.
You know what I mean?
We can get in front of something that's rocking us.
I don't know if that makes sense.
Boy, you know what I mean?
We can get in front of something that's rocking us.
I don't know if that makes sense.
Boy, you know what I mean?
We can get in front of something that's rocking us.
Boy, you know what I mean?
Yeah, I'm going to do it the other day.
Boy, I just love doing my job.
And so the way they say it in public, because they hear it from you, it's a great reputation, right?
It was a great job.
It was a great job.
It was a great job.
It was a great job.
It was a great job.
It was a great job.
It was a great job.
It was a great job.
It was really striking.
It was being editorialized favorably all over the country.
This is an unbreakable, unbreakable strikes, striking strikes.
And, you know, starting to talk with her, you know, and everything transferred to him.
And he was basically arbitration at the end.
Which he did, but now he didn't allow, he did not allow the company to be ground to a stop.
It's legal to be ground to a stop.
And that's where he ended it.
but can't be driven to bankruptcy.
We have a lot of lawyers in the United States, and I don't think it's going to be easy.
The first thing that I think is going to be a public and not a department deal.
We're going to be outreached, not a department deal.
You know, the money went up, the money went up that day.
He said, he said, no, not all of them are.
He was going to lose his tail.
I said, this is the way we call it.
These are the people who have normally called it.
Because some of our foreign buyers of these things are finding other markets or other places where they can get it.
They don't come back.
It's not a good point.
I said, no, we have not really written it.
One of their partners, one of their doctors, one of their doctors, he taught me how to set a vaccine in our house because of this.
And we did it all together.
I had to tell you about my little first history in 1958.
I was in the electric room when I came in and I was in that seat.
It was the first time I'd ever been in there.
I'd never seen the animals.
I'd crowded myself all the time so they couldn't find me.
I'd be on the hop all the time.
And I had it.
So we went up there, got back down there.
We went to the siren, thought that would be useful.
We went to the high street, to all the most popular street.
We went down to the street.
Two friends down at the street saw, you know, a bottle of champagne, and all three said to the door open, and they came to the person hearing some of our band-aids, and the other she promised was hearing the band-aids, and everything, and they heard, and it was like the voice of, did you know who I was talking to?
But I don't seem to see it.
It was the person that was normally very lucky to be found out that because
Because of our experience, and how he was trying, where I was the leader on the other side, and how he was trying, all of the people in the town refused to carry our money.
Oh my God!
And this was 10 years later.
And this was 10 years later.
And this was 10 years later.
And this was 10 years later.
There's no thinking about the president's moving out there.
He's just trying to get us on another subject to be helpful.
This is what we're going to talk about.
It's all good.
I think so.
You see this blue thing?
You open up.
You open up.
You open up.
You open up.
You open up.
You open up.
You open up.
You open up.
You open up.
You open up.
The president's role is to make the distribution of the rain as a result of the river calm.
The river calm made a very interesting comment today.
He made a very interesting comment when he was governor of the United States.
He, of course, was secretary.
He said, looking back, he said it was a great error for the Congress to enact a huge program for Medicare and Medicaid without trying first.
He said, we've got to spend huge amounts of money.
And we've made great mistakes.
And he said, that freaks my teeth.
He said, he thinks that now I believe that we cannot go on the other program.
He said, I'm all for it.
But he said, I think what we need to do is try to program, a pilot program, to the extent that the Congress may look at it again here in our academy.
So that's a very interesting observation.
Very difficult background.
But it's a pretty small program.
But I can talk to him there.
I can talk to him there.
I can talk to him there.
I can talk to him there.
We still have a philosophy in the nature of the program that is thoroughly endorsed.
The problems, of course, are what are disbelieving, indiscriminate, and don't work on them.
And as a result, it's taking ages of money to disable, put them aside, and get involved in everything.
I mean, I don't mean that they actually determine permanently disabled, though.
I mean, I can't say with them.
Like eligibility.
out at the local level.
Because you'd be surprised how easy it is to classify as urbanly disabled.
A lot of people who are potentially employed have been paid salvage and so forth, and they would get sick.
We ought to check them a lot, hand you a fine, but there might be a tendency to not.
Age, of course, is never going to get you younger.
Fine, do that.
You're already on the way to success.
I'm not on the road to success.
We do not have any waivers or anything.
Our public system rules have gone down and they've gone steadily down.
We've seen, we were able to bring up to date our cost of living for the year from 67 to 72 cost of living.
And it would have been in the same budget because of the saving we had from the
And we can do all kinds of part of it.
We've got to do this.
We've got to do the part where we brought everything together and put everything together.
We've got to do the support and enforcement of all.
The wages of the fathers.
And I think a lot better than that.
We've increased by almost 40% not only from parents' fathers.
Uh, Andy, you know, you bet.
Everybody thinks it's good.
Well, we're finding that instead of the prosecutor having to go in, everybody's going to come in.
Because it's the way the time has got to work, isn't it?
You bet.
Aren't you the way to see the response time clear?
Yeah.
And if that works, you know, you have to do that.
Yes.
Well, if that doesn't happen, you've got to do it.
You know, another thing that we won't talk about very much, but I'm confident this is a fact,
I remember in 1970 they passed an abortion law a month later.
And it was in January of 1970 when our rules got down.
And we are doing some investigating now.
We changed the numbers.
The percentage of young mothers who are cumbersome mothers and those who are cumbersome mothers are down.
We're in a situation where we don't want it.
We don't want that argument.
We don't want that argument.
We don't want that argument.
We don't want that argument.
We don't want that argument.
We don't want that argument.
We don't want that argument.
We don't want that argument.
Well, it's just supposed to be the most recent thing where doctors are supposed to know that the mother's health is endangered.
Her wife is in the hospital.
And we included medicine.
We've got psychiatrists.
They have many grand more.
And in five minutes, they will diagnose the side effects of the part of the girl.
And when it's time, they have to go to the hospital.
They have to go to the hospital.
And they said it's going to be over $75 on Medicaid for these diagnoses.
And basically, we didn't make one of the other teams in the operation.
But they're going to be taking 2,000 employees this last year.
You've got to get all of this money out of here.
We've got to get all of this money out of here.
We've got to get all of this money out of here.
I think people are saying, you know, good friends of mine, all kinds of supporters.
I know you do well, but I mean, there's a lot of supporters.
It's not balanced.
This is something that, you know, it can't be the choice of the person involved.
How can we set them around?
It's very funny.
One of the things I spoke to my leader last year, I don't remember how he said it, but he said,
But we've had it for years.
And that's something that's part of the journey for us.
I think we're coming to do it here.
You kind of weld our roles because you've heard, you know, 22 times from now.
I had one question for you.
I don't think we can answer this thing.
I know this principle.
I mean, by the way, I promise to not count.
But when I had to, I didn't think whether I was going to sign it or not sign it.
I guess for the first time in my life, I had to take it into consideration to it.
It was a very strange time in our law now.
The unborn child is guaranteed property rights.
The law protects the right, property rights of the unborn child, but does not protect the right of the unborn child to life.
So he didn't have years to live.
And he was murdered by her husband, who died.
And he left his fortune to be here to bring his wife, and he promised to give their marriage.
Now, her unborn child,
You'll have to say to the world, protect that right.
And yet that same mother could go in and abort that child.
And let's go on the other end of this state for her son.
Right.
And, uh, we'll see you tonight.