Conversation 664-015

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I talked to you over the night today.

as a figure of the confidence.

He's, I think, handled the psychological part of this impending offensive very well.

She said to me, letting the people know, but not putting it in terms of going to frighten them, because they don't need to be frightened, just so that they're not surprised or so.

And I think he's done it quite well.

The problem is the system for compression of arms.

We've got enough sitting on two arms.

We don't even have to move any.

No.

That's a fairly easy thing.

You just have to put bomb bays in there.

Get the hell of a wood on it right now.

In fact, they've got 13 additional ones that they used to have that they pulled out of that which must still be fitted.

They used to have 16.

Now they only have 47.

Well, let's get it up to 16 right away, but higher and higher.

You know what I mean?

Just put it at a... You're going to sort of get more damn hard and put an order on it.

And, but, but time is of the essence.

You don't have to then leave at the 2 o'clock when the battle's over.

Well, you, you'll have a chance this afternoon when you talk to him.

Well, I'll tell him that, but then we'll put an order out on this later.

You have to be aware that the enemy's following order and not ready to speak.

You understand?

Your pleasure.

The ship, though, is already on its way.

The ship has been ordered to be there by March 1st.

That's, uh, that's great.

You see, having four carriers would be, uh, that has a hundred planes.

and let it help, for example, when we do it through a one-day strike, we can just put that on each more plane, so we know what the reason is.

Well, this will be reassured to you, though, if you suggest the main part is deterrent.

It isn't just reassurance.

We've just got to tell them, fight like hell.

This is their country, too.

And their ability to get more aid and everything is going to depend upon their ability to handle this.

And if they do, we can do it.

If they don't, it's not going to be a big deal.

Everybody's sitting here saying it's a fail.

It's a joke.

I don't think it's going to fail.

I don't either.

How do you feel?

I don't know.

Oh, I think we can contain anything that has got

And if they can suffer, I think you suggested yesterday, anything like the ratio of casualties that they did last year, I think they can't keep taking that.

They've taken about, last year, about 100,000 kills.

They took 16,000 in lands on their own.

Yeah.

And, uh...

No.

The tense of Lanshan was that there was next to no fighting after, after Mao put him in.

No, exactly.

Before he was gone.

Yes.

That's what we said we would do.

Yes, exactly.

We could have fought more times.

No, it was very effective, the Lanshan operation.

Very effective.

And what do you think how it was reported?

Oh, Cambodian.

Yeah, it was very effective.

Also, that brought us along.

In other words, you can't always be down the drain.

Well, in effect, there hasn't been anything, any significant activity in third and fourth course for two years now.

No.

Remember when Townsend, we thought we had to gain six to nine months.

Townsend came in, said we'd gain two years.

Everyone said he was just...

Telling us what we want to be.

Very important, of course.

That's right.

He was right.

Well, anyway, let's, uh, now, incidentally, I, you know, we discussed, uh, the situation with regard to your own tenure there, and I know it's been a great burden, but at the present time, with this negotiation, with this offensive and everything coming on, I've just got to ask you to stay until we see it through.

Yes.

Sure, fair enough.

Yeah.

What makes it be the Marshal?

I mean, can't you bring that comment?

Dear Marshal, I'm proud of you, Mr. Gottlieb, and dear Marshal Sullivan, Mr.

Ambassador.

The Washington Post would like to recall that they make that proposal to me every month.

Oh, for Christ's sakes.

As a man who has followed foreign policies you've had for years, you've served as Republicans and this and that, but isn't it shocking that you've gotten into establishment in this country?

I mean, how they reacted to Vietnam.

It was incredible.

Every time the enemy wins.

Yeah.

Oh, sure.

Every time we lose.

But they're going to love it.

We will laugh a lot.

Mr. President, I'll stay on the course.

I, you know, my wife and I, we've been living in France for more than five years.

And

Well, I think she's saying

Then he says that his second point is the Saigon government should be urged toward political accommodations with all elements of their society.

Without such an accommodation, the war cannot be ended.

It's clear the American people will not support an indefinite war either by peace or by proxy.

Then he goes through this line he uses.

It's not an easy thing for a great country to admit a mistake, but it is perhaps the definition of greatness in a country that it can.

Well, who's going to take him on, then?

We can't understand the issue.

We've totally lost the ceasefire.

Just, uh, we had to already make sense of the thing.

He must be getting to that point.

Yeah, we've got to get into the, you know, someone's got to take it on solidly.

Who understands?

He says the president has also offered the kind of ceasefire already rejected.

The administration claims that the principle of a ceasefire has been accepted by the negotiators as well as others, but the administration's words cannot conceal a clean reality.

The point is not to argue, the point of it is to argue, is to attack him for parroting the line of the gun.

That's exactly what they got to do.

Turn it around.

Yes.

That's the approach they take.

Well, hell, he's not even hurt in the enemy.

The enemy is.

I mean, he is, but the enemy has not rejected the ceasefire.

They have it in their proposal.

Yeah.

But, I mean, he really ought to be hit on that.

We were talking about the same thing as Buchanan.

Buchanan's theory is that Clark Booker talked him into this, you know, picking up his line and dropping it, but instead of this, he caught it on his own.

You've got to understand the line is like...

that i would not argue that god damn he's got to be attacked for uh we were talking earlier whether or not i should you know take him on

Well, even if they ask about it, normally I would not comment it.

The impression that Wong and other people have, who die in and support movement amongst the press on this thing, is that we're not being asked about the muskie stuff here because they don't even have them in the...

In other words, there's no parallel.

There's no comparison, Wong, between what he says

And what the president says, the questions were taken.

Now, that doesn't mean we shouldn't have them.

The question is here.

Oh, we should.

They just don't have them, you know, they don't have their minds postured in relating them to you.

Is it?

At least that's what the impression is out there.

True.

The other conclusion is they'll put it on all three networks tonight.

And that's what he was looking for.

He's smiling.

Because that's, you know,

Of course, then that leads to whether or not we should say, if I am asked a second time, something like, what the, I guess it goes off to my, I can't find it right now, but I'll find out if we develop a hard line or something like that.

I just have to check it out.

Of course, the other thing is not that Director Hardin acted.

What would appear as obvious from this is that he has not studied or even bothered

The other side has already rejected what he suggests.

Well, why don't you get it?

It might occur to you to talk to Scali about it, too.

I know all these things we've stated there.

The only question on that is whether or not she's tried to address it this morning.

Well, you didn't have to.

It didn't have to be.

Well, actually, the guy that answered it was Robert Schultz.

It's mostly mush.

It's all sorts of leaving our sons fight and die.

I'm sure it caused it.

I wished for Christ to admit I was common.

I spun.

He said, you got one fighter.

I said, I don't know.

Thanks, folks.

I said, go water it.

It's been a premise for a little while.

I think it was more of a fault of these three workers who were fighting.

I know you can just see a common aggression out of viewers like that.

That's our problem.

This would be a very good attest to Bill's letter.

When the chips are down, he'll take something on.

I'd really like to know.

This isn't, the attempt isn't really a chips down effect, because he hasn't come up with any.

There was some thought he might have some proposal or something.

So is the old warm-up or hash, especially with that, it's the same line.

You're studying.

Why does he support the president?

That's the point.

The president speaks the post.

Okay.

I don't have your phone number.

I don't.

We're not going to read it.

I see your phone number.

It is.

I was very interested in your children's reaction at school.

I was .

But when it changed the view of the person, that's the thing that I was interested in.

There's a lot there.

Honest people in this country basically are fair-minded.

They don't like somebody getting a bad rap.

I can't understand that.

Did you talk about it?

No.

Mitchell's been here.

Yes.

I called him.

What in the name of God is that about?

Did anybody mention it to you?

No, not until I saw the paper.

It's just unbelievable.

It's just attributed to a statement released by the Attorney General announcing that there

Taking it all on the press, it's unbelievable.

After all, all we've been trying to do with the other one, $100,000.

And all of a sudden, you spoke to the goddamn author in Chicago.

You spoke to him.

$100,000 a month for the Smitty National Committee.

Well, we didn't notice that for the National Committee.

Well, can we get it?

Can we do anything to, uh, who's the follow-up?

I haven't talked to Mitchell.

That's the first thing I'm going to find out what the hell he's doing.

You can probably say, well, it's too far down the pike and it had to be brought because she was an eater and he circulated the things, you know.

Well, I was to fund the investigation.

And maybe it's still going on that.

He's got a lawsuit going on that.

But this is an antitrust action.

Yeah.

Would you guys, by the way, I asked Opie last night,

No, he doesn't.

He just shifted that whole, why?

He just shifted that whole contact thing that worked in operation and I don't know what happened.

And Wood Mitchell knows about it.

Go on.

You've got beauties.

Yeah, beauties.

There you go.

Great.

Sorry.

Except our invention.

Oh, man.

I could go too far.

Well, make it look as good as you can, Mr. Payne.

I guess that's the only ball you know that you can tell is a television show.

Make it the best show you can make.

He knows the only one that really matters is me this year.

Right?

Yeah.

You agree that that's the problem?

Sure.

No question.

It's all the candy on this gun and stuff.

Both of the men, the policemen were Marines.

I'm not sure whether you took a read on that, Mr. President.

Did you notice it, at least?

Yeah.

It wasn't noted in the press release, was it?

Yeah.

What I would say is the suggestion is that you'd rather not have to call them at 8 AM.

You could have the price office prepare a brief.

Yes, sir, I believe that Major Bradley took letters with him.

That's all about it.

I just wanted to be sure it was covered.

Apparently.

And, uh, just, well, I'm assuming that they're, they're on the wrong lookout.

Their approach to it is wrong.

This is, we come up with these massive programs and we don't know whether they'll work or not.

We throw them in and they, they fail.

And that screws the whole thing up.

Well, we were coming up with a massive program.

We gotta stop.

Well, that's kind of his feeling.

I'm glad.

But it really gets to what you were putting.

The owner was working to get at it anyway.

Senator Vaughn was sure from the other side.

Well, John was worried about the PR side, but that it would get hit by the press or drop in the program.

I didn't do well.

You know, we say, I'm not sure it hurt us, but we did.

Well, the whole idea is to take a very pragmatic position.

Elliot last night was saying, well, we shouldn't give up too soon.

But I just think we ought to be pragmatic and say, look, I want to get a sign or something.

They've got two and a half years, they won't have it.

We really gave up on a program.

No, we got a program.

Didn't give up.

The President launched an imaginative program and bought us and went with as much of it as he was capable of.

No question.

I agree with you.

It's fairly too bad to drop it.

And you said clearly on the public record that any change in welfare would be an improvement and that you were for anything to keep going.

And you said that we don't know whether our program will work.

So your position for saying this, we're perfectly willing to test it.

I'm seeing that maybe it can be improved.

The attitudes of the university caps as well, they're not sure there's a lot

you realize how different it is.

Oh, yeah.

How different it is from what it was a year ago.

Not just about two years ago, it was terrible.

Three years ago, it was a problem.

It sure was.

But the difference is just, you know, night and day are fighting.

It's just the thing you said, it becomes places of learning, other times around the city.

Yeah, yeah.

Really examine their reach.

thirst of people to participate and their love for beauty.

On the other hand, there is the terrible frustration, I would think, of being on commissions and knowing that they aren't, they don't mean a goddamn thing.

Well, if they don't participate in this, they'll find something else to participate in that doesn't get us in trouble.

And the fact that commissions either are a burden on us to keep them happy.

That's right.

And you've got another important intelligence for it, you know, that we're dropping in.

I don't know, Andrew, what you need with that.

I couldn't do that here then, but now, before trying to, yeah, tomorrow, or probably or something, I forgot about that.

I was going to get out of town, so I missed that.

There and somewhere else.

And there's just nothing you can accomplish with it.

You know, you start to think, you know, how the hell did we do it in the first year when we did everything Henry suggested?

Well, not just everything Henry suggested.

Everybody else suggested it.

That's right.

We just ran like that.

Remember the schedules.

In those days, it was something every 15 minutes.

Right.

Bounce from one to the next.

And I think it was a good job.

You know, you're right.

Oh, I was looking back at some of that shit.

It's unbelievable, some of it.

Not just days, but weeks, because then you didn't have any, you know, you had the Wednesday off plan, or all of that.

We'd get off the president.

And also, you know, I got this impression over everything, medals and honors, and everybody, everybody was in, you know, we had this kind of award and that kind of award.

And the congressional thing was unbelievably bad, remember?

And how many people I had to call or see, or...

And the point is that if everybody had then said, gee, isn't it great that you've got such a president who sees everybody and spends his time talking to people and all that, maybe it would have been worthwhile, but nobody did.

All it is is that people did get in and argue that you weren't seeing anybody.

The congressman for eviction?

Yeah.

The business owner for eviction?

Yeah.

Now there's something to the fact that if you let anybody in, then the guy who doesn't get in ditches, and you create an impression that you're not seeing anywhere, even animals, take care to his extreme.

Not seeing anybody at all, and get less complaints about not seeing people than you do by seeing a lot of people at home.

Because if you don't see my associate, then I don't mind if you don't see me.

But when you see him, then I get mad that you didn't see me.

I frankly think that I was in a way about how I started.

So words get out.

The more I look at it, the more I look back at it.

The cabin officers would dream of trying to go to us because he had a chance to meet Greg.

But nevertheless, we had lots of meetings, too.

They would dream of it because we didn't want them.

And I didn't want to hurt

But we were counting that well, too.

Our organization was working better and better.

Because he had such a structured thing that he let himself go through all that routine.

You know, he ran through the academy, and he'd come in, and he'd let us see every week, and then we'd go to conference every week, and then try to figure out other stuff that he didn't.

He worked at it totally different way.