Conversation 665-001

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At least better for us there than any of the candidates.

Good God, yes, that's all the push.

But actually, I think now, Mr. President, if a candidate like it would help you, because if he does, he's going to trouble the Russians.

No one can seal the fact that you opened it.

He said, this is a big thing.

are just, most of them, for different reasons, God and man, and that's all there is to it.

I was wondering if we had any further thoughts on strategy on this thing?

These speeches are a goddamn disgrace.

And my first reaction is better.

But it lied.

It didn't play at all.

Considering who it was, I mean, the fact that it was musty is an injury.

Our position remains the same.

We have to, Mr. President.

A little time afterwards, but what we can do is we can start a humanitarian program and announce it right after you come back from China.

He accused the United States of treating him as sovereign, and he was silenced in Bangladesh.

So the U.S. should know what was going on.

Oh, he's a liar.

We were doing all we can.

What the hell?

The president told us that 60% of what's gone into Bangladesh is American.

After all this grieving, he said, and guns.

I'm checking here.

I see the girl.

Yeah, you have a nice little story.

You've got a great picture story on it.

Is that right?

Let's just show her.

It's a story about the watch.

You said something about a big watch hanging around her neck, and she took it off and gave it to you, and you checked it with your watch, and said her watch was fast, and she said, well, you keep it, and I'll keep you ahead of time.

They're building it as a continuing love affair type thing, you know, with the president, or not love affair, but, you know, interchange between the president and the proletariat that started when you gave her the chair.

She came in and talked about her big heart.

You know, I was in trouble with Ted Lewis about, I don't know, but you're starting an album on everything.

I believe that.

Remember, he's done that.

He's been doing this for months now.

But he did it a couple of years ago.

He went sour and then lost touch with the public polls.

The Obama wasn't expecting any election nations.

And so, Warren was like, no more.

So, we should have made a peace plan.

I think he's a little bit, I'll have to talk to him again, because there is the best way out.

Lauren winds up having to defend the speaking company for being more serious political fire than he now appears to be.

Hell, if we hadn't made that plan, we would have had a face that must get our feet every day.

On your shoulders.

I think it was more about you than about me.

Yeah, I know.

I don't get that.

I don't see it.

I think Stuart outside was going to kill and lose tomorrow.

Thanks.

Yeah.

So it's absolute.

In this town, he's a liability, but in the country, he's not.

What is the situation?

What is the advice we do here?

We're going back to Fortify Rockets.

We got a chance there.

Now we have to get the three pillars to do it.

Yeah, he's agreed to do something.

and that the second chances he would have to go out and say something.

I said, well, let's be sure that he talked, he said he had talked to Crocker.

I said, well, the main thing is that you want to add to the agony of Ireland, then I want you to be able to talk to Lyle.

But anyway, then he said he thought that he was out of an opportunity to talk about Vietnam, which could low-key it very much.

I would prefer he looked at it and go ahead.

He said, well, there's an inclusion problem with Scali.

Scali, yes, and Colson's going to follow up with construction, make a little more mileage with Scali, Scali will lay the groundwork.

And they've gotten the wording.

Now, Buchanan is working on the approach.

There's really a question of who you get now that's going to make me bounce.

You said Laird was going to hit this.

Laird was going to hit it today.

He's speaking to a group of students.

Well, Chuck's going to talk to Laird and try to give him some of that same line that I'm using for the others.

Laird is capable of coming up pretty hard and just fine.

Oh, yeah.

But it would be best if Rogers did it.

But I don't want Rogers to go out and say, well, this is a proposal.

We don't agree with it at all.

There's something with it.

You see what I mean?

We cannot be soft on it.

This must be a fact.

It's totally partisan.

That's the whole line that they're taking is sabotage.

I believe it was sabotage of our plans to bring the war to an end.

Both Chuck and I feel, we were just turning, and I swear we were, that we would have been better off not to put Ron in there yesterday.

It didn't do any harm because it didn't get that much of a ride, even putting Ron in.

But we got a better attack.

from Ford, Dole, and Brock, who just kicked the bejesus out of him in very, you know, bitter kind of language.

That we get more, that's what it means.

All right, well, Ron, is it?

They did do the heart attack.

No, they did do the heart attack.

We just wanted to make sure in case they kicked the ass of the other.

We received no coverage at all in that program.

We're going all out on that.

Oh, yeah, because that was the dumbest move they could have made.

Because they carried every, every, you know, Daniel Shore was up there testifying, all three of them were carrying him, they carried Sam, and they carried all, everybody else who's testified there until the news shows on CBS, listen to this, Henry, in 1968, ran 16 to 1 against next, 10 to 1 on, against Juma and D.C., and 8 and a half to 1 against Juma and A.D.C.

Remember, I refused to tell us they were inquiring this and they wouldn't believe me.

Sure, I didn't see them.

Well, we're...

What I'm trying to do now is, I think maybe this one's the breakthrough step.

Somewhere we've got to get something that gets the effort thing up to where it's a continuing project.

And that, I don't know whether this counts the smears and the intonations.

Yeah, that's what she's after, is trying to get the, not the smears, not the picture, because she worked only from audio tapes.

Because I remember when, during the last period, sometimes the script read all right, but then the way they were presenting it,

there is an effect saying, you believe this, you believe that, isn't it?

Well, what I think, we may be able to decide which point on this one, which is one shot.

We're going to hit the networking one.

But the key is if we get a continuing group of some kind, then we process our truth and we can...

So, you're going to get writers to say something, and they're going to say something, and that's about it.

They all agree something should be said.

Maybe someone will get a, get a writer out of something.

He's not, he thinks he probably should.

He's, he's,

grinding overnight, so let me call you back because I want to try and figure something out here.

And I said his first reaction is that, you know, if you don't yell rape as soon as the guy gets off of you, it's too late to do it later.

But then he said, no, the way it didn't get played, which surprised me.

Everybody thought it was going to get a big play, and it didn't quite end in a play at all.

There was a lot of fun on it last night, too, though, so they could have played it.

I think a part of it is what's shown in the news stories, even, too, which is that

And he didn't really say anything.

And when he had a press conference, he made the mistake of having a press conference afterwards.

And they pushed him on, well, what is your point?

What are you going to do?

How long would you continue Asia, Saigon?

He said, well, I can't dot every i across every t at this point.

And, you know, he did something.

I must say, I was called out yesterday for a strong conference.

And I'm no longer so sure because...

because it didn't play much at all.

The other thing that we're going to try and get Rogers to do is to take the Nixon 68 statement, which is just beautiful, and put it right to the face of the, you know, I will not come in jeopardized.

As a matter of fact, in 2006, I did raise questions about Johnson's Manila thing.

But of course that wasn't very good.

So that was in 66, you know.

So they may go back to that.

Well, that's different, but that was a congressional candidate.

Now, as a presidential candidate, I never raised the question.

Well, you made a hell of a good statement that they take just one sentence out that says must be in perspective, and then you, and that's, Chuck's going to try and get Rodgers to use that and say, here's the example that was set by the...

the opposition party... Because the Vanilla proposal wasn't a negotiating proposal.

It was a statement of U.S. intention.

That's right.

And I didn't...

I didn't...

It was a unique statement, a unilateral statement of intention.

That's a totally different thing than a word... You're negotiating... You know...

I didn't see, Bob.

You said that Manchu had drawn things.

That wasn't in the news, sir.

I know.

And I've got to find out what happened to that.

It was on the wire yesterday.

Isn't that so?

Well, if you notice, isn't it disgraceful without Dan Press in it?

Now, Mr. President, one of the amazing... One of the things in which the press, for example, when the New York Times sent its questions to Hanoi the week before you published your piece proposed, you know damn well if the answer had been withdrawal from POWs, it would have been a banner headline.

on the front page.

When they got the wrong answer from what they wanted, they weren't going to use it at all.

And only because we had an intercept and kept priming our people to ask them when they were going to run it.

Did they do it?

Did they do it and then they put it on page 10 or somewhere?

Sure.

Or, yes.

Similarly, no paper really placed the fact that the Vietnamese turned down this deadline for POW things the day of your speech.

Their print must be talked as if it had never been rejected.

That makes the point that rejected.

He reads for it.

He says that your peace plan, your new peace plan, has already been rejected.

Which is again not true.

By their official newspaper.

That isn't true.

They have never flatly rejected the peace plan.

That's what's so interesting.

What does our poll show?

The majority of people favored what we were doing on the offer of the peace plan.

Absolutely.

Maybe you're on the wrong side of the way.

What's that?

That's a tough one to pull off because, as you know, in this proposal, any proposal you look at, they aren't going to have any technical sense.

Yeah, but this attitude on the whole, I think, would tend to be to believe the Ferdinand.

Yeah, especially now.

I think that's very definitely right.

Well, the reaction, though, I should say, of a follow-up is not an ideological enemy like the federal system.

But he, as you know, he, as I guess you're right, he has been, he was off in this kit before, wasn't he?

Yeah.

And everything we did was wrong.

He was on it for almost a year, and then he kind of came back, and now apparently he's wandering away again.

He gets, uh...

Some of this may be inspired by his dislike of the China initiative.

Yeah, could be.

He's talking more in this instance about the Vietnam, I don't know what the hell that is.

But he's way out, especially his colleagues, all of his editorial colleagues think the Vietnam Initiative, I think right at the left bottom, if they agree that it was a good move or don't, I mean from a domestic standpoint, that's all he writes about domestic politics.

No, virtually no.

No, way to get away from that.

When I talked to Nelson about Keating yesterday, he was babbling all over the place.

It was a tremendous thing.

You know something that we've got to bear in mind?

I don't want everything I know, doubt, whatever, but the character charm is just going to have one massive

coverage, and I don't think it's going to be unfavorable.

I just can't.

It's going to be favorable.

Unless these Chinese let us down completely, they're going to let these people in cotton wool.

It's just going to be such a...

You know, you've laid the groundwork awfully well for the, you know, this is an opening and not a conclusion.

It's not to expect a big deal.

The Chinese will lay it on with great decorum, with enormous dignity.

They'll see you working like crazy.

And I don't see how they can fail to be impressed.

They'll get invited to every state banquet.

Yeah, they'll watch the communique.

But I've read over the communique, Mr. President.

It's the Taiwan part.

The Taiwan part.

On the Taiwan part, Mr. President, we won't be able to get anything that Bill Buckley would like.

That's impossible.

That's beating cancer.

I think they'll make a serious effort to go as far as they can with everyone, it's so true.

Well, that they're doing anyway, but even the statement of disagreement has to give them a little bit before they'll say...

I mean, on everything else, they're letting us disagree totally.

And they're letting us say they'll maintain the defense treaty with Japan.

But on Taiwan, we... On Taiwan, the...

You know, I did say we will keep our treaty commitments, but are we, can we say that we're not, we can't aggregate a treaty with Taiwan?

No, no, no, we can say that, General, we can say that we are committed to a peaceful solution.

That, but we can't.

Are they, will they say they're committed to a peaceful solution?

No.

But they're not saying the opposite either.

They're just saying their position is it's their country.

They won't make a deal with us.

What's your judgment then about, must we take him on or not?

I think what we've got now, but leave it at that.

And if Rogers doesn't want to do it, I wouldn't break his arm.

I think it'd be important, the reason it'd be important for Rogers to do it is to get in position so that he can't, and his people, his people can't go piss on him.

That's true.

The way they did in Newsweek, the

That would be the major use of having Rogers out front.

Because unfortunately, Foreign Service is more loyal to the Secretary than to the President.

Yeah, there is no reason for that.

There's not.

No reason, but we should expect it, I guess.

I think if we can get a plan, but the other possibility is that now Muskie, who obviously rushed into this thing, might get confused and not know exactly how to deal with it, too, which would be kind of interesting.

I think also, let me say, it's a good test for us as to whether or not whenever we've got a top one, it'll stand up.

We've just got to ask sometimes somebody to stand up.

Well, we shouldn't certainly stand up on Ireland, Mr. President.

That's nothing to begin with.

We'll infuriate the British.

Well, that's what I'll do.

If we want to play politics with it, you ought to do it.

But I don't think it ought to be done.

I wish we could play politics.

No.

But that's the only... Well, his concern is, of course, he said, the state is getting ahead, you know, I mean, in ours and other countries, and the Irish over here, what the hell our position is.

Well, we just say we're interested.

It's not a foreign policy, Roger.

It really is.

Well, I said the answer.

I don't even think he should step out.

Well, I thought that you...

Then he's bound to say something that's going to cause trouble in the river.

He didn't know we were going to be seen.

I've given him, as I told you yesterday, a rather full account of everything we've been doing because I thought we might as well take him into camp.

I told him if I saw John alone, I'd either back-channel him or write him a letter.

And he just wants this confirmed from you that you know about that and want it that way.

And secondly, he's going to testify before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

He's going to testify before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

And they have those cables, and he's been coached to say things which are not going to be very helpful to us by Cisco and others over there.

Mark Thompson.

Like, for example, Dave said, he said, what do I say when they ask me about why didn't you say war?

We didn't know war was imminent.

And Rogers and Sisko said, I don't know how he could say this because we knew war was imminent over here.

Well, if they knew it, they'd goddamn well never said it to us.

You remember, they always told us Mr. Scandi was a force for moderation.

For Christ's sakes, they hadn't even given it to me.

I told him this was going to be a State Department talking point.

Good.

The only point is, he shouldn't get the Amazon papers all chipped up again.

Let me tell you, I was scared to keep it with him.

They injured his wife.

I said, now, Ken, you indicated in down there that in case the state did something, I'm going to put out in front of the White House

the memorandum that you and Spade sent me before Mrs. Gandhi's visit?

Well, no, he didn't so much, but then Spade sent.

But the thing to do is to say, we'll publish that record with the Indians, which will get us into more trouble with the Indians, and that is no good.

Because the goddamn Indian ambassador, when he left on November 19th, said, if you, if I got in touch with him by December 1st, it could still affect the West.

Therefore, we had no reason to suppose that they'd go to attack on November 22nd.

Uh, I think that...

Uh, he's a stay-at-home guy.

He said that's a long path.

Well, I think he's...

I think he's... Well, he would like to tell the Indians we're considering recognition.

Well, we will accept recognition, but we can't announce it.

No, no, no.

That's right.

I told him that...

he, in my judgment, pending your confirmation, he might have to go as far as to say they're not going to challenge the facts of life there, which is not saying they're recognized.

Yeah.

And that we will go very slow on any armed sequence from Pakistan, which we'll have to do anyway because of our domestic situation here.

Yeah.

Well, I expect we can get to everything.

That's actually what we want to say.

It's a matter that we have under consideration.

We'll do some humanitarian relief.

What about humanitarian relief?

We are helping.

We'll continue to help.

That's right.

You will get a paper this weekend, Mr. President, in which we propose that we pledge our percentage of the U.N. contributions, in other words, between 30 and 35 percent, to any humanitarian effort.

So this asks other countries to put up or shut up.

Yeah.

It still makes it a lot more difficult.

What's the heating position on?

Is the State written a paper urging immediate recognition of ammunition?

No, no, the State agrees that nothing can be considered until after you've peaked.

All right, good.

So the State is not across the business.

What does he want to say with regard to this now being the restoration of Indian aid?

That would be that.

I don't know.

At the foreign relations committee.

Of course, he should never have been the first to testify.

That's the first mistake we made.

Well, then what's next?

Because they sure as hell kept following us.

I'm sorry, but I'm asking you to go ahead.

Well, he could have been kept from testifying.

That's been done.

I'm asking you to testify.

Go ahead.

No.

So then, uh... We had to get it back here to keep him from baffling in New Delhi before he was arrested.

What is the situation now?

What can we say?

On the 3rd of May, if you will report next week, you're saying we are prepared to start discussions with India about the whole framework of our relationship.

And this will be one part of it.

Discussions.

My strong view is that we should not get it done very quickly.

Well, I couldn't agree more, but I guess what I wrote to Keith was going to say.

I think Keating is not in a very rebellious mood right now.

Well, he shouldn't be.

Nelson does to him.

And today I have the impression that Nelson is really going to campaign like crazy this year.

He's told me that he's got Chavez.

He's getting Chavez cranked up.

He's getting Keating back.

He's getting his own machinery going.

And this is the first time I've seen him use his strong arm of growth.

No, he didn't do it.

Oh, no.

And in previous campaigns, I thought he was going through the motions, that he would make some speeches, but he wouldn't use his smuggle.

But this time, I think he has the distinct intention.

The others we've seen, we've seen Bunker, there's no problem there.

The only thing about Bunker, you may want to discuss his, if you believe me,

No, but he can't leave during the offensive.

And I don't really know if he'll be reprised.

Well, he can die if he just tries to make a living, so.

He's a patriot.

What a fine man.

Oh, boy.

I mean, you've got a few masters like that.

It makes it worthwhile for the others.

Well, this guy fought, I must say, in Paris.

He did one for him, too, with his officer.

Maybe not the one, but he did one for him, too, with his officer, who is Steve Triplett.

Now, with regard to the...

He has a question, pardon me.

I think you should see Paul in a few minutes.

He is?

Yes.

All right, go ahead and see him, Jesus.

I think, Paul, that he doesn't have to be today.

Well, that's a dissent.

Well, I have to be there.

I've got to be gone.

The President won't be here tomorrow, so that means that he's not here.

So how about next week?

He's not here.

It says first through the fourth.

Well, we can keep him.

So we'll just have him.

I don't think you can stay a little longer.

You've got a bunch of people today.

Well, we can keep him.

Well, then you're stuck with him next week.

You'd better off get him out of the way today if you have to see him.

Well, I think he's trying to go to Florida today, but tonight's so much.

I don't screw up tomorrow.

Yeah, let's.

Let's.

It's such a shame that he's gone.

He has to be seen.

I saw him last time for an hour.

He told me he was here, so you think he has to be seen?

Well, I think he's seen Katie.

Well, I know, but we're seeing Katie for other reasons.

I mean, Bartlett's a loyal man.

It is a loyal man.

He's such a loyal man, he understands.

Why don't we schedule him for tomorrow and then you go away tonight?

He can't do that.

What did you say?

He's in break engagement.

Break engagement.

Schedule him for tomorrow and then I'll call him this afternoon and say.

Yeah.

But it's not important.

I can handle Bob.

Rogers is fired at the MOU.

Strongly recommend he's not CDF Dyshenko.

We agree, you see?

Oh, yeah.

Let me just give it back.

Oh, God, if it's announced, of course I'd stay quiet.

He's done a memorandum and I've already announced it.

Well, that's what's really ridiculous about this.

He's known about it for three days.

I'll send you a memo late yesterday without calling or anything else.

Where is the memorandum?

It's with Andrew Rogers that I'm supposed to send him on that.

You'll have to meet him at the brink.

I'll have to do that in Florida.

I've had a draft of the Kissinger memo.

Did Kissinger get to us a draft of the memo?

I was supposed to send it to Rogers.

Get him.

Well, what about the guard at the Toys?

It doesn't make a goddamn bit of difference what State thinks.

What's the matter?

They think he's anti-Russian, pro-Russian.

No, that's not what State thinks.

He has done things against Vietnam.

Well, he said he didn't.

He didn't say it, but I guess that's the term he had.

But maybe he hasn't ever said the name.

But I think the other one, which he did not raise, but I'm just reading it.

It's something on the Irish thing.

I think my case last night was that it is so...

It is so hot that I might make a few points on this.

Domestically, you know, I know the pressures.

I think if we play a rather straight-to-the-line role, not trying to exacerbate this terrible, great problem.

Because, you know, it's really unconscionable what these people have done.

you know, burning down the dam, it's interesting, but, and, uh, and, and, you know, Rich won't come over and all that, I understand, but I, I think if you, if your line could be one of them, just...

not trying to make political hay out of the issue, and that we're just actually making errors for our peaceful settlement of these things and so forth, but it's not a problem.

We're not going to be decimated by trying to influence it from here.

It's kind of like them getting into our problems with the Negroes, you know.

so that the ball is on their side of the net if they want to help fly.

I was trying to think again what I told you, and I just simply told him, you know, this is Angela.

And as a matter of fact, I used this example to say, I said, look, we are not going to embarrass you.

We're going to try to be as reasonable as we can.

So I don't want to be in a position where we are, frankly, that's breaking that.

I waited to see how it would come up.

I said, we're not going to embarrass you on this issue.

That was all we said.

Fine.

So I guess I'll get ahead of that spirit.

OK?

Good.

Yeah, yeah, well, I tell you, the, uh, we had a, I don't know, we agreed to see him a few days ago or something, but I, uh, you know, there's a lot of, a lot of children.

Got it.

Now, now, hold on a second.

Except the Russian.

Okay.

Uh, you have to get that Russian boy.

He says a lot of kids have been dead, right?

It's a grandstand play for the goddamn liberals.

They could lay to it in ten minutes of you approving it last Monday.

That's what we're doing.

You know, the liberals can say you are open-minded and...

It's a...

I said it was pure public relations when we mentioned it.

He had requested it of me.

Who is it?

I'm surprised to see him just there.

You should be bored of this kind of shit.

Usually they've got stuff in their homes now.

We go through this every day.

I notified them I didn't even have to do that.

As soon as you proved it.

This is the sort of thing that has to be handled with a phone call to my office rather than... What are they, uh...

Oh, forget it, forget it.

It's really not worth a memo to you from the Secretary.

Well, I suppose it is.

They're just trying to prove it.

I don't think so.

I'm going to check with Cromer.

I don't think the British would like that.

They won't think we kept him there.

can play any role.

It's like he's getting up in Parliament and saying, when we have a race riot at ours, you'll be glad to be in town.

Ah.

I didn't mean to say that.

No, no, you didn't.

I mean, it's perfectly clear what you're going to say.

I'm embarrassed.

Let's handle Parliament the way that I think it is.

What would you like to take to keep this game with you?

Should I give you some of the books of the conversations now in the memoirs?

Yes, sir.

I'll have four books.

And I'll have four books that will be a biographical assessment of Marlin and show a...

Let me get this, and then three others full of memos.

I just wanted to put into it, I had an analysis made with Dr. Kuehl, quite interesting, of Maher's favorite novels, just to give you a clue to his mind.

Just three or four pages.

Yeah.

One of the marshes.

May the proceedings come to an end.

He's coming in at 10.

I just want to get the boat stopped.

He needs to go down to the bunker at 10 30.

You can raise the point that on your backup material and anything else on that, if you want him to do any marking up, condensation or anything like that, or any articles or books, you'll ask.

I wanted to wrap it up, but I'm glad to do it.

I don't know what he wanted to get in.

He might be very good at that.

He doesn't think he's out.

He thinks he's out.

And, uh... Yeah, he might be better than Hammerström.

They're good than Hammerström.

Well, he's going through the...

He's just saying there must be a good volume of back-up material, which he'll be reading in the present interest.

I'll read it and mark it up.

We're condensed the volume he has to contend with.

Alright, is there folks in the SCO311S marked up?

So that's just if you got, how about taking him with me on board?

Alright, okay.

You got a plan to go?

I think so.

We got to get just set up.

If you want to go tonight, we got to get a

That reception is at 5 o'clock?

Yeah.

You can leave at 6.

You mean before that?

Leave at 5.30?

No, because you're a little spoken to.

And there's only 150 of us.

Okay.

Well, let's say 6 o'clock.

All right.

Is it 6 o'clock?

No, she's not.

You know, we didn't appear to be a shitty, pissy-ass little group of motherfuckers.

Departments didn't play.

They weren't a group of goddamn men.

the whole thing on a peace proposal in October, we went through the whole thing, you know, and led up the Cambodian cross-border, and Rogers, and Laird, who was buying together, they were talking to God, and they were just just playing the ball, pitfalls, and then so forth and so on.

Right up to the last, you know,

And I never speak to Greg until this last one.

This one he felt was helpful.

I mean, he did not hurt.

But I thought I'd tell you before that it's just been like a goddamn accident.

And I suppose a lot of it is due to Henry's abrasive personality.

But on the other hand,

Be careful with me.

Well, I learned to be careful before I hear you do the word.

I've never tried sex.

But the other side of that is, he may be right.

You know what I mean?

An argument says, you know, it was a close toss when Henry read something.

So whether it was a good idea or a bad idea, it may be a bad idea.

I don't know.

I don't know what that thought is.

Okay, but if it is, then he ought to call me or Henry or somebody.

And I said, Jesus, you must be out of your mind putting this bullet on the schedule, giving them off.

And he could have done it yesterday before we put it out.

He knew it three days ago.

He knew it the day of the schedule.

I let him know that you've got to let us know if they want to take it off.

He sent the memo late yesterday.

And he says there's a formal memorandum to the president.

What it is, is it puts him on record.

He said, I told you so.

I said, you're right.

I know.

I scream about it.

Okay, I was always going to scream one way or the other.

I think it was good when you said, when you see Apollo down.

Sure.

I do not have time to do it with, uh, put it on the thing for the Apollo to crash the thing.

Goddamn.

Well, they put the word out because he put the word out.

All right.

But we are not putting it on for a photo or any of the press coverage.

Sure, I'll take the picture.

I'll take one of the press photos.

Oh, no.

That whale reaction surprised me.

We want the press, the photo thing to be the drug story that anyone can talk to.

Well, it's a small thing, you know.

But every channel's a chicken shit, that's all.

There may be, you know, we've been worrying about Henry's character.

We may have a worse real problem with Bill than we think.

There's a, I didn't believe it, but I checked in the third channel that Henry's,

He was telling me that he had lunch yesterday, I guess, with Ben Bradley, not Henry did.

And Bradley said, I just want you to know that we're very concerned about Bill Rogers, and Kay is too, that there's something wrong with him.

We had a four-hour session with him or a two-hour session with him or something, and he spent the whole time

telling us how he had solved all the foreign policy problems.

He said, you look at your paper now, there are no foreign policy problems.

I've taken care of them.

We had this, and I took care of that.

We had that, and I took care of that.

And he said, this is Bradley now, saying to Henry, for Christ's sake, Henry, we know Bill Rogers.

He was our lawyer until a couple years ago.

We know he didn't solve a goddamn thing because he doesn't know anything about it.

We know what's been done.

And we also know there are a lot more policy problems.

And Rodgers said, look at our paper.

He'd see there are plenty of them.

They aren't all solved by any means.

And he said, to be perfectly frank, both Kate and I were very concerned that something was wrong with Bill.

Part of this may be Henry, but I will check him back.

And it may be that there is something to this, that Bill is not acting rationally in his dealings with Mitchum.

This thing on the Doberman meeting is not a rational way to do it.

He knows it.

He has been meeting consistently with the Israelis without saying so, even though he says he has.

In other words, he's not...

He's just passionately and fanatically concerned about... With him.

And also, he does want to get the credit for everything.

He doesn't...

I also picked up a clue on the economy thing that I think maybe I've been talking to people putting a lot of loose ends together.

I think maybe the principal core of our problem with him is Dave Kennedy.

Well, we've got a real problem.

The American governor has made it clear that he is the chief economic spokesman for the U.S. and Europe.

And he has said that, and he thinks that's what you've given him.

Because of this thing when you and Henry decided to give him all these little plums to get him to take the NATO job.

And that's what he's doing.

You've got to cut Kennedy's balls off with the real possibility that he might resign.

And if he does, it's too goddamn bad.

But it isn't too bad at all.

We've done a lot for Kennedy.

We've done too much for him.

Too damn nice, actually.

But he's playing this thing.

Now, he came in, Rogers and Coffey, I've picked this up from a whole circle of stuff.

Kennedy, for instance, has used up his travel allowance, expense allowance, for this fiscal year, even though the year's only half over.

And he's submitted a memorandum saying they'll have to give him an additional amount.

His travel allowance for the year was $100,000, and he has spent the whole $100,000 in the first six months.

And he's now asking for another $100,000 for the second six months.

Well, sort of, but he cranks them up.

He has spent himself on a lot of stuff.

And Bill has to approve that, and Connie has to pay it.

And they've agreed they aren't going to do it.

Flanagan.

He wins Flanagan.

Well, and Henry.

I think he's very mean to the Communist Party.

And do it.

And said, now, Bob, don't put this off.

You see, one of the things we want to do today, today, you say, John, there's something I want to talk to you about.

Today, frankly, the President feels it's got no line here.

He just said when he was older, he could, you know, have the opportunity to talk to these deputated communists.

Yeah, well, I think we covered this one.

No, I haven't had a chance to.

We think that this guy has a major problem.

the economy, the situation, Dave Kennedy.

Dave Kennedy was still in his way of the chief economics spokesman for the president in Europe, which he never, never was.

You heard the conversation he had with him.

We said to him, Dave, when you're there, you'll have an opportunity to do this and that.

Weren't you there when he said that?

He had no job.

Does he have any reason to think that he's representing the United States as our economic spokesman here?

No, he has reason to think that the other conservatives there in Brussels and Geneva have some relationship to him.

I know it.

That's the way, that's the way he's getting it through to, or at least the way he's done it here.

He's getting Conway terribly, and we've just got to get, we've got to cut, we've got to get Kennedy down.

That's all, despite the, because of the Conway problem.

Yep.

Conway cannot have another guy.

you know, screwing around in his thing.

How do you think it's going to happen?

Let me talk to Dave Kennedy.

No, sir, it won't work for me.

Well, I think that, Bob, I think we've got to talk to Kennedy, too, though.

Yeah.

Kennedy's got to know that he's... You might even test your confidence.

What is it?

I think it's better.

I'm delighted to have Flanagan there, but I think I could do it better alone with Conway.

Because he trusts me, I think.

Yeah, but he has plenty of time to get into it.

Well, I think it's going to be Flanagan that's got to do it.

Okay.

I just didn't want Conway to dig himself into a hole.

Well, the point is that Conway has got to be in charge here.

Well, but even if Kennedy were the chief spokesman in Europe, he would still be under Congress.

And there's two separate problems if Kennedy's the chief spokesman.

We want him to be the chief spokesman.

But even if he were the chief spokesman among our European ambassadors,

but he would still clearly be under Connolly.

I mean, he is not independent of the direction of Connolly.

That's the point to make, and that will never give him any reason to believe.

You see, you put Connolly in a very odd position.

His predecessor is Secretary of the Treasury.

You tell him he's under.

Kennedy doesn't put himself under people.

And he doesn't?

No.

And Kennedy is a guy that pushes his own position very hard, as you know.

In all these things, he's pushed himself in very hard.

And I think

The guy that matters to us is Connolly, not Kennedy.

We don't care about Kennedy.

If he quits, it's okay.

That's what I mean, you've got to understand.

That's why I think it is important, incidentally, you'd better get Flanagan.

See, Flanagan is going to be the economic man.

Getting Peterson out has been a hell of a thing because he doesn't have any ass in this field.

But I think that, will you arrange this today, that Connolly, to be sure that Connolly is, I wonder what the problem Connolly has, see?

If he sees the problem with Kennedy, and whatever Connolly wants, he gets.

That's what we have to do.

And Kennedy must be told, I don't think that's understandable.

Jesus Christ also, he can't be waddling around, he ought to get over the hell over there to NATO, is he?

We made a mistake there.

We shouldn't have tried to get him.

We were trying to give him a job.

We tried to get a senior person there.

Well, but giving him a job in NATO was fine.

What we did is we let him get too many chips along with it.

Well, we did tell him that the other ambassadors there would have...

that he has some supervisory role.

That has nothing to do with his relation to Conway.

I mean, it's the idea that an ambassador has an independent position and that he conducts his own economic policy over there is just nuts.

No ambassador conducts his own policy, period.

I mean, he thinks he has six other ambassadors under him.

See, Kennedy is the best of all.

Kennedy is not just an ambassador.

Kennedy is also a

member of the president's cabinet, you know, all those kinds of things.

Well, the thing that needs to be spelled out is... And he's retained his ambassador at large.

Yeah, well, but that becomes... No, that becomes, Mr. President, that there was an exchange on.

But that's not the problem.

The problem is to get into Kennedy's head that he's under Connolly, and to get into Connolly's head that he is in charge.

If that is established,

How Kennedy feels respectful in the church we have in Geneva is really so unimportant.

The OECD ambassador, well, it isn't the OECD, it's the guy we have in Geneva with that trade party.

I don't, we have ACP reports of his.

Well, why don't you do this?

Let's not plan to try to sort out the doses because we've got to have the replacing church away.

Or they're supposed to, but the main thing is...

First, what Connolly thinks of the whole thing, you understand?

Well, apparently what Kennedy did was a goddamn stupid thing.

He went over to Connolly as a sort of an equal, and he was going to make a treaty with Connolly as to how they were going to share their responsibilities.

Oh, in the last two weeks, and Connolly is very correctly through his back.

This is what happened, man.

If Connolly, if Kennedy had gone over there, I mean, after all, on each of the negotiations with Kennedy...

He was never told anything like that.

No, and I talked to Connolly before we appointed Kennedy, and Connolly was perfectly happy.

In fact, Connolly thought Kennedy could play the same role there as he did in the trade negotiations with Japan as our guy against the State Department.

It's when Kennedy started putting himself on the level of equality with Connolly that that happened.

Now this is one you can't put off till tomorrow, today.

I think we can handle this.

Work out a deal, huh?

And how then?

I'll be glad to help with that, because we can work out, the major thing that has to be worked out is the Connolly-Kennedy relationship.

The other thing gets into its truths.

How are you?

Presley, how are you, sir?

I should tell you about Hartman.

Yeah.

Right, right.

And then Hartman.

And all that.

I watched what he did.

A fantastic job.

And so I'm going to carry that to the phone.

Hey, do you want to hit it?

It was just great.

Oh, it was a prayer.

A prayer.

Yeah, I told you it was a prayer.

Well, your iPhone.

Well, you've been through a hard time.

Well, I think it hasn't been easy, but it's a terrible time.

Well, it's a time that will pass.

I trust.

So there's some strategies for those countries down there.

These are what you basically thought Peter had to do.

And so they, they fight each other.

They fought each other after slaughtered, invaded, or partitioned.

They fought again in 1962.

Now they fight again.

I guess it will never end.

They just continue to fight.

Well, I hope it will end.

What I think is about to happen is

have some kind of condemnation of the free countries, something like the European Community.

I've, uh, I've become, I guess, a prophet, a body well-earned by the tax, you know.

Well, they make noises, you know, warning Buddha, that's the warning people.

And Mujib, I'm trying to think of people.

It's not the...

Some favorable reaction from

to the people I've talked to, and not, not necessarily, but the Indians must be terribly, and even though they know that they are so big today, with particularly the help of Russians, not going to pass today as we, but on the other hand, they must be

concerned about the relations of their neighbors.

And also looking down the road 20 years from now, they've got that very big strut of China hanging over them.

The Chinese may sometimes forgive, I'm not sure, but they never forget.

They live too long.

And they hate the enemy because of the 1962 war.

It's a mutual... Oh, it's a mutual...

It's more of a fear on the part of the Indians, I think, than hatred.

They're really afraid of China.

And every reason to be awful, China, not now, will do anything.

But looking down the road, any sense of security, they need to have that mutilation.

So India needs to...

It needs particularly not to waste its substance and cause something to occur, to fight Pakistan.

when they got China in there.

That's their problem.

They don't consider Pakistan a problem.

They turn it as their problem, and they've got to maintain quite a force for that.

I don't think they'll be deterred.

Let me give you a little feel of

at this point.

I know you've talked to, you're going on the committee today.

Yes, 2.30, and I'm looking for a lot of experience.

Well, I'm ready to tell them all my papers the rest of the time.

How are you, what have you done to employ your lawyer?

Well, I can't give a splash example, but

I've got it conceded, but what my general approach is to be that this is the way I looked at it in India.

And these were sincere cables that I sent.

I have to admit, gentlemen, I didn't know all of the ramifications.

No ambassador knows all what's going on.

They happen so fast.

And I go as far as to tell the wrap-up cases.

So I don't think you'll feel that.

Let me, I think, with regard to the Bangladesh thing, as you know, we cannot do anything on that until after the Peking visit, for reasons we're all aware.

I think also it's very important, because the Indians are notorious leaders,

The only people worse than the Japanese and the dead heaters.

But with regard to this, I think it's important for you, if you would, to say that when you're back there, well, we've discussed this matter, and it's a matter which is under discussion in Washington, but we cannot indicate that we've made a decision or will make a decision.

I would keep it loose.

You can, of course, say that they're all

which is true that the President is one who recognizes his assistance to China and indicates the practical facts of international life.

He recognizes that.

But the question here as to what should be done, what I think would be bad would be to have the Indians, in order to embarrass us in China, leak out a story.

The President has made the decision to recognize Bank of America.

He's not going to put it off until after China's out of the race.

That's right.

That's what you've already said.

I'm afraid they'll leave.

That's the problem.

Well, I do.

And what you've said is an improvement over our previous formulation.

I wanted to be able to go back with something.

The previous formulation, as you know, has been it is not now under consideration.

I think the words are

No, just consideration, Mr. Alton.

The word consideration.

Now, Ken has the right quotation of what we use, but I gave him yesterday a quotation very similar to the one he made earlier.

I can say it's being discussed, but there's no decision to make about it.

discussion with him and the rest, and he's looking at it in a very pragmatic way.

I'll just put it that way.

Does that sound all right to you now?

Yeah, I think a better way to put it is to say we are not challenging reality.

Yeah, that's my way of saying we're pragmatic.

We don't challenge the realities, but...

I'd say now we haven't made a decision as to when or how or what, but it's under active discussion.

See, I understand.

You know what we're going to do.

Oh, but then everybody knows that.

The problem is the Indians leaving it out.

The deliverance of the Chinese.

That's right.

I know what you're saying.

The Chinese, they...

I want you to know, and I realize, it is much more important than anything to do with India.

India's long range and this China thing must take precedence in the direction of India.

So if you'll resolve that, that's all.

That's the formulation that I'll... Now the other point is, on the East, which you may be asked about,

uh i i think henry if you could give uh ken uh the uh people already seen it but it is that we have that you've got the world report thing pretty well for him that's pretty outstanding no we have the world report that we're gonna we're going without our whole year's report coming out next week but that sort of takes up basic principles which is that uh we are we will open discussions of the

What we are saying is we are prepared to have a serious dialogue with the Indian government in which we will make our contribution and then have them prepare us to put our relations on a new foundation.

Yeah.

And that new foundation, well, that doesn't have to be our new foundation.

Can I have the formulation of that before I make the meeting?

I have it in my office.

Yeah.

Now, is that something that I can tell the foreign secretary?

But, look, it's going to be published next Tuesday.

Can you wait?

Oh, yes, sure.

I was waiting to see you.

You're going to be asked by the Congress today.

I think you should say, well,

What should you say to them?

I'd be very conciliatory that, well, we're in the same situation.

And after all the iffy that, you know, aid to Pakistan is practically nil.

Now, I mean, as far as aid to India is concerned, that it is the policy of this country to stop aid.

when military action is being undertaken by any country, friendly or not, now that that military action has subsided, that we are, we do not reevaluate our relationship and work on the relationship.

I think the other point that I, however, so for purposes of your talk, Secretary, your friend, Mrs. Kennedy, first, a little background in regards to why we're acting in this state, and second,

And it's entirely different from what the accepted wisdom would indicate.

I don't suppose Henry's got it from the world, of course.

But the thing that's safely made in the United States of America was what they would say.

And there were probably several of them.

was in my reassuring Mrs. Gandhi when she was here.

I remember, you know, we, at the dinner, we all bought that in-state voter memorandum.

Henry approved the memorandum.

They came to me.

And in fact, the talking points I used with Mrs. Gandhi came right out of the State Department's box.

It was their honor.

I reassured her in London.

She arrived in the state that I made at the, out here in South Lawn.

I reassured her in the coast.

You know, I said what a great lady she was, not an heir to his daughter, but a great woman, a great leader in her own right.

And when she was here, I said, this man has met the prime minister.

He can be reassured.

We're going to get $500 million in aid.

We'll get Yaya to withdraw unilaterally from the border.

We do all these things.

and indicated at no time in my conversation that a war came, that it would be necessary for us to re-evaluate.

In other words, my feeling is that that probably led her on.

It led her on.

She probably didn't need to know a lot of these, but I think that if the United States, if we were to restrain her at all,

that probably we should have, I should have told her that, well, well, we want to help you with this refugee problem.

We've got $500 million committed, and so forth and so on and so on.

But if war comes, we didn't take a different view, which we did decide.

Now, that's history, however.

At the present time, I think the things that ought to be emphasized, and you, when you're talking to the Indians, is this, that they should not make a greater mistake than to take me on as one who's mad, and says, God, you're mad at me.

Hell, I'm not mad at this kind of thing.

Suck it around or too much.

It turned out, the point was, I just didn't want a war, but the main point I want you

They haven't had a better friend in this country than I. I, as a congressman, as a senator, as vice president, and when I was out of office,

have made speeches for Indian aid, have always voted for Indian aid, $750 million.

They don't like to call it aid, but they have won a lot.

I have supported India.

I have taken the line that India, as the largest free world country, must have an opportunity to prove that it can

compete with China, the largest totalitarian country, and that the United States is a great state, and India is experimented in democracy.

This is my view.

It hasn't been my view in the past.

It's my view at the present time.

This is despite the fact we have no treaty with India.

We have no alliance with India.

We respect their non-alignment.

When India's kicked us around the United Nations in Russia, I defended them in Q&A during the campaign six days and said, we respect the right of the countries to disagree and that our aid goes without strings.

I think that speech more on than anybody else.

Now having said all that,

I mean, it comes with the old race, where if it's Gandhi and the Indians to say that Nixon is out just for them, hell, we're not out for them.

I'm just trying to, basically, what we're really trying to do is to keep the Indians, what we did at the end of the day, from God's own neighbor.

If they had, if the Indians, with the support of the Russians, had knocked over the Westpacs,

It would be a damned, unsafe world.

It's pretty unsafe as it is.

I came a little rundown on all the overtures we had made and the disquiet that they had caused, the Russian replies, the Indian replies, and so forth.

I think we're going to go alive.

I have to say this.

On the contrary, we're afraid we just want them for their own good to stay the hell out of war and put me in the Chinese men.

That means, Taddeo, what I've said to you a dozen times,

Look, President Nixon came to the Congress the same year I did, and he and I were one of the damn few people in favor of aid to Indians.

I know.

And I've said that to them again and again.

It's partly the press.

They could stop this press if they didn't have a pernicious little son of a bitch there as the spokesman for the ministry.

And he is so important.

No, he's the one who reached the press every day.

He's bad.

Oh, he's awful.

They always have some little guy like that.

Who was that one, Henry?

Your great friend.

What's his name?

That slippery son of a bitch there.

that we hate, that we so dislike for ourselves tonight.

Oh, that, no, he's out of government now, same.

That was the foreign minister.

The foreign minister, no, there was another.

No, there was the other foreign minister, not the president.

Oh, darn it, darn it.

I don't think the other foreign minister, he's out of government.

Do you remember the slippery little bastard that was always running around, Mrs. County, whispering in your ear?

Huxley?

Oh, no, no, no.

No, no, a little problem.

Oh, you remember that.

Right.

Call?

Call is the Foreign Secretary.

The Foreign Secretary.

Call, yeah.

No, he's our guest.

Well, Call, I think he's a little better.

It's pretty dangerous to defend him because I always look astray at anything he says.

When he called me in to make overtures for better relations,

He told my press what we want to talk about this cycle.

And he will call and say, give a subject that he wants to talk to me about and I'll get in there and it'll be an entirely different subject.

And I personally, you talked to me, personally,

Socially and personally, we kid each other.

And I have to admit, I like him as a person.

And I do think he's a little less pro-Russian than he used to be.

I'll tell you, there's a worse one there now.

It's dark.

He's a terrible businessman.

I remember he grabbed me after the dinner.

He said it's always a good job with Blair House.

He said it's a nice place, but he says, you know, it's one thing to approve of the Americans and make it with the British.

He said, you have showers rather than bathtubs.

And Blair House, you do have bathtubs.

Nice to do a chance of showers.

Well, that's a nice thing to touch on.

Mr. President, one thing that I wanted to ask you, because I discussed it with Ken yesterday.

Because call is quite close to the direction,

Because Cole is the man that Kent sees most frequently.

I have, as your instructions, had several conversations with Charles, the Indian ambassador here, who has, at that time, been suspended.

Now, I told Kent so that he wouldn't fly blind again.

I would let him know about this through fact-channel or through letter.

Let Kent know.

The time will use the back channel in other words.

to his book, that forecast, or do we don't get to have that spread?

Well, that's right.

That's fine, and I welcome it, and I feel so much better now that I've heard some of the reasons, which, sitting out there, seem to me an excellent book for some of the moves that were made.

I, of course, am a little concerned

uh i must keep these and they must all be eyes alone and i must keep them separate a little concerned about my relations with the state department but if if any question can there's no uh there's no problem there we do this with russia in berlin we're going to do the same thing with uh and we go with you and incidentally we also have

on one occasion, only one.

But, you know, basically, we can always trust them.

But it's perfect.

And it's not a big break off.

No, it's not a big break off.

All right, I will say nothing.

I'm sorry.

Let us, we'll go ahead.

And this isn't any cost for our team.

We're doing one thing and they're doing something else.

But it's a question, really, that sometimes it can be.

We talk about the leaders and whoever.

Close there is the State Department of Democracy.

All of them.

They lead their tables.

They lead everything over here.

I mean, they're close to the, I mean, they're a little ahead of the French now.

The French were led by Lieutenant Henry Strepstall up in Paris.

Let me say, what I want to get across is first the bigger picture, which so you can talk with confidence to your Indian friends.

They have a friend in this White House.

India has a friend.

As a matter of fact, I'm a friend of a whole bunch.

I'm a friend of Japan, too.

We're going to China for uses of our own, you know, and their own.

We're hoping to have the best relations we can under the circumstances.

Now, as far as India is concerned,

We took the action on eight out of the nine facilities because our law requires it, and our Congress, of course, would have done it if we hadn't done it, too.

Now, at this point, we believe that the survival of India as a strong, independent, free nation is in the interest of world peace and in the interest of the United States.

That's what we believe.

And we would like to cooperate with them in that respect.

We have in the past 20 years, and we will in the next 20 years.

Is that a fair statement?

Yes.

But we have to drop them, because I understand that, Mr. President, that we have to move them unless it pays.

Well, don't look at that.

Keep the dialogue going with what we've got to do.

I think also you could well point out, you won't see that the Foreign Relations Committee, for example, Senator Irving,

I mean, Jordan, North Carolina, and others have said, and this has doubled in space among the Republicans, say, how old are they?

I mean, they're never getting any aid anyway.

And they are about to come back in.

So you can say there are some problems here.

We want to talk about it.

In other words, I wouldn't appear, I think it's not as important not to appear to look

I don't want the Indians to say, look, the United States is sorry for the fact that we backed the U.N. resolutions, which were 10 to 1 against us now, 10 to 1.

Secretary General pointed that out to me in the chair the other day.

We're not sorry at all.

We think we did the right thing.

We don't want to say, no, look, we want to crawl back.

And will you please take our aid again?

Well, it's not on that basis.

The basis and the future will be an arm's-length basis.

It's one of great respect.

We want them succeeding, right?

Yeah.

We're willing to discuss what kind of a basis it can be along those lines.

On the refugee aside, which will do our share through the United Nations, 35%?

That doesn't concern them.

Well, but they're interested.

I think they have a right.

But they haven't been announced yet, Ken.

This is for your information.

Yeah.

And the way we will probably handle it is to make the announcement after we come back from China.

Oh, I see.

But why can't you just ask about the situation?

I'd love to, but he sent us.

That's not really happening.

But here, for a basic computer, you could say without a question, actually, that we are, we have helped.

And Teddy Kennedy said yesterday that we haven't given any aid to the nation.

Good God, we've done more than all the rest of the world combined for refugees and for an East Bank Center.

We are continuing to.

We will continue to.

Period.

What kept to the voice before the Foreign Relations Committee is to give me the impression, if I can be honest, that he's the good guy and we are the villains, and he's extorted all of this out of the White House that was kicking and screaming.

I think we all do have to be impressed that we are together on this.

Well, I intend to say that since I have gotten here, I have learned a number of matters of which I had no knowledge before.

That's, you know, we've agreed them.

And, uh...

And then at the end, there's the story.

I didn't get anything out of my house.

How can I stay safe?

Well, the other thing, the other thing.

That's what they would like.

I know, they'd like that.

The second great conviction, of course, is that the soul is the president of God, which is to stop the first world war, prevent the war from possible, and to stop it after it's started.

And that was all.

I think that, and not only that, and the war.

And we did everything we could to prevent it.

We did also everything we could to stop it.

And now we're trying to do everything we can, as I said in the statement, to heal the wounds.

That's about what we're doing.

That's right, and I will let Ken see the chapter on India-Pakistan.

either before this afternoon or before you go back.

I've got it ready now, if you want to read it.

I'll stop now, if I may.

Yeah, it'll help me, you see, before I go to the Senate.

I've got it ready.

I don't know if that's a person's experience.

In fact, that's also a lot of people listening.

Well, one of the State Departments looked this up and said, I'll go or not, just as you say.

I'm not anxious to go, sir.

But you decide whether I'm to go.

And they finally decided that they claim I was being gagged.

If I didn't go, then I better go.

So I know.

I've had Kennedy out there.

I've had Simonton out there.

I've had others.

They're going to try to make a political issue out of this thing.

I don't think they can succeed, but they're going to try to do that, and that's what they're going to try to direct their questions at me for, and I'm conscious of that.

And if it weren't for Mr. Anderson, I'd be in pretty good shape, but obviously I can't deny the damn cables that he's spread on the public record.

And I, but I shall, what do you say to them?

The President encourages these pastors to write their best views, give their best judgment.

You gave your best judgment.

I, you were getting your judgment from that spot that the President had to make his decisions based on all the vehicles he received.

I was assured of that when I was here in May because I thought perhaps I didn't talk to you, but I did with Henry and I did with

the State Department, I thought perhaps you'd prefer to have someone there who would be sending you what you wanted to hear, and was alright with me, and that I'm not the kind that writes books after reading all that, and I wouldn't do a thing in the world to hurt you, and so

And I was told, no, you get to know how it looks from the country where the investors credit it.

And I told you that in July.

You did.

That's right.

You did.

That's right.

Yes, you did.

That's what we want.

And that you did.

And that this is a, yeah, probably has power relations with India and so forth.

You just can't tell the truth.

Well, the point is that, let me say, it's their move, not just ours now.

The idea, the idea, after all, they started it.

They went to war.

We didn't.

Well, we all saw the war.

I mean, we can't, we're not going to get any, I don't want to be in any defensive position.

I realize that.

But they have turned to me

and called me in and said, how can we better our relations?

And I have said to him, well, I appreciate this overture and I'm sure that my country does.

We would like to have improved relations.

I'm sure I speak for my country in that.

And the overture, I used that word twice, thinking he'd back away, you know, the sensitive Indian.

He didn't at all.

It was the most conciliatory

speaker or or or or or or or or or or or or or

India has to have good relations.

It has to work in its relation with three great nations.

One is the Soviet Union.

The other is China.

The third is the United States.

Now, whatever the Indians may think of their great neighbors,

Everybody will admit the United States has no bad designs on India, right?

We do.

Then we want to keep it.

On the other hand, they cannot be sure about either their northern neighbors or the Soviet, because the Soviet may have treated the friendship, but there are a hell of a lot of Indian communists that are trying to knock the hell out of them.

Yes, sir.

So why did they do it?

The point is, if she wants to go right under the arms of the soldier, that's her business.

On the other hand, if she wants to file a foreign policy, she would realize that of the three superpowers with whom India deals,

The United States is the only one that has no designers on it, the only one that really wants any of this to succeed, and that for 20 years has given them money, billions of dollars out of god damned strength.

And it's taken a hell of a beating from them, and most of the world for them.

Well now this is something that we don't need to be a dead man about.

You know, you're a dead rat.

You're a dead rat.

I have here, and I've limited my time with you, I have here the things that I proposed to go back to call in formulation.

Instead of taking it up here, shall I take it up with you?

Do you have just a few minutes?

Sure.

Thank you.

It's along the lines of what we...

It's a general... Whatever we work out, but it's technically work out in life.

Did you do that?

Yeah.

I'll do it.

I'm going to do it the second you discuss it with me, okay?

Yeah, sure.

Oh, yes.

I'm going to do it.

Yeah, I was talking about what you just said in the discussion, where you got the general feeling, and you work out the words of that review.

Okay.

Finally, and this is just on the way out, I'm going to be plus no butter, because I got a call from him.

I got a call from Nelson this morning.

Nelson?

Oh, God.

in town, and he said that there's a state senator, and they were Ronald Stafford from New York.

He was out in India.

And he said, what's the difficulty with you and the administration and so on?

I said, look, I would resign tomorrow, campaign for the president.

And I said, there's nobody on the horizon, is he?

So, he went back to Nelson, and Nelson called me this morning and took this very seriously.

He said, we need you back here in New York.

And he said, you can be very helpful.

And I said, well, Nelson, I don't know mechanics.

whether the president would want me to resign, whether you can take a leave of absence rating.

But he, in the department of organization up there, seemed to think that I could be an element in a political campaign.

Now, that's got to be worked out.

I've got to do what you would like to have me do.

I don't believe you can take a leave of absence.

But he said particularly because

And it appears that you might have had differences with the president.

He said you would be ideal for a campaign that ended up safe.

Oh, I know, I know.

So, think it over.

I'm ready to do a, you know, I've heard, of course, it's going to resign, so I think it's going to be.

I don't think you can take a leave.

I don't think you can.

I'm ready to resign.

I mean, I believe you can resign and take another post.

I mean, that's not rather funny.

Well, the point is, I do feel I would stay as long as possible to try and get this back into the track.

Oh, you must.

Oh, listen, I'm not in town.

No one on the line is speaking.

We're leaving in the summer and later in the year.

I would say that, frankly, the best time to do it in Nelson Fields is to be open.

And we may be looking to, and I appreciate your suggestion of it,

The best time to do it would be after we have our normalization thing, which will come.

And then you would come home with a victory.

That's true, but anyway, we're even after the two visits.

Well, after the two visits, after the two visits, then you've got to look at anything over.

He told me John Mitchell was coming up to me in the Burma, and he said, I'm going to put this out to him.

And this is definitely going to be extremely effective all through upstate New York.

And frankly, you are sinless in telling us, I mean, you're taking all the amenities here, quote, unquote, and I could be held holding on to that, our great Republican president.

Yeah, got it.

2 million votes ahead of all parties.

2 million votes.

He still won.

Why?

The reason Mr. Ron was tackered is so he said, he ended the next year when I ran, you know, Nelson called me in and he said, now there's only one statewide office and that's for the carbon fields and we've got to get back the Senate and the Assembly.

And so you've got to run.

I said, that's a hell of a way to pick a judge.

He asked, but you've got a good lawyer, and we know about you, and you run.

So I am dead with him.

And we did get back to seven.

And listen, I'm a staffer who's one of those enlightened men, so he's always worshipped me.

He thinks I enlightened him to the worst.

Where's he from?

He's from Watertown, New York.

Oh, it's also town.

Mm-hmm.

No, class 13.

Class 13.

Yes, sir.

Yes.

Nothing to obey, but I thought you might want to be lost.

You know, we appreciate what you're doing.

I know it's tough out there, and we have to give the senator a money clip.

You've got a money clip, haven't you?

No.

That's our latest gear.

Oh, a money clip.

Wow.

And they're both expensive, much more expensive than a cup.

Most important investment, I'm the only one with a bodyguard, and three guys behind the bushes in my yard.

So I'm in a very secure position.

What happened to him?

Second lady of the town.

I know.

He spoke to me a few times and he's raising the gals.

You know, he proposes to, you know, he proposes to... Well, here in the art house, three of your... No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

Well, she's married.

I'm pretty careful about her.

Come on, come on.

Okay.

Thanks, Jeff.

Thank you very much.