Conversation 682-008

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He was told by Rogers today, in the presence of consistent technical evidence, that no matter what anyone told him, including me, he, Rogers, was going to handle the contact, and he was going to check everything.

Then, unless you told him this or... Rogers doesn't know about the other channels.

No, but what we need from him is that if there's an agreement about to be signed or something, that we get a two-day notice, so that we can get the technical evidence here.

and that we can give him actual instructions on how to handle it.

And he'll do it.

I mean, Watson is... Roger's totally smart with everything, but you don't have to know what Roger's told him.

If you just tell him that he should handle it on the same kind of basis as he can handle others, then Watson is totally on your side.

What do you want me to tell them?

Why can't you come to the room?

Because I'm already late for lunch.

Oh, I'll take it.

Yeah, well, let's bring him in.

Well, let's see if we can get the food back.

And you're leaving.

But why?

Well, I'm not going to get anything.

Oh, really?

It's not a fantasy, though.

No, it's not a fantasy.

Oh, well.

Or it's good.

You better be checking him out.

Did Henry bless him?

He said yes.

He's lucky.

He's lucky to get you.

But he's sitting there.

He's got a marvelous job, of course.

And I don't know how long he'll work.

Well, thank you.

Any more questions?

We're going to make sure it doesn't sound so difficult.

I don't have any other questions.

You don't have any other questions.

There's a little top hat.

Billy will get it, too.

And I'll sleep with it.

Why do you want to be here?

We're going to meet you.

Oh, I know that place well.

Sure.

No, we'll be in London.

Oh, in London.

Yes, you will.

How old are you?

He's 36 years old.

Well, I'll give you my congratulations.

We just wish you the very best.

And see that when the wedding is coming, that we see that we give them things like a little note so they can put it on their scrapbook.

All right.

You don't have to refer to any other kind of address.

You were good when I told you.

All right.

We can get a picture, but I'll make it.

Yeah, okay.

How much time did the businessman take of your time?

Well, that'll knock off, right?

They can't work you that hard.

I mean, you've got enough to do when you're saying full drive and test.

You can do almost every two weeks and stuff like that.

Two or three weeks.

You know, to heck with it.

We see it, George.

I mean, it's worth our while.

But by God, those businessmen are not easy to manage.

No, no.

Well, they're assholes.

You know, they could take it for the night sound.

Who arranged this old Henry?

I think, uh, I think that he did.

Yeah.

He had a lot of experience.

Ah, you see him out there, Senator?

Right here.

Oh, Cromer was in yesterday, and congratulations on what you did.

What Senator Mathias wanted this morning is to say that he's proud to be in the same party with you.

Oh, my God.

He said wherever he travels, he finds total support.

He's never been away from support.

It's just interesting.

What time is your dinner?

Your lunch?

I'll have the present.

there are occasions and there may be something that good work agreement was reached or something you know or something well for example one example was

on things like that, you should back down on me first before telling anybody in state.

Because they'll leave it out of the city, and I've got it.

And they don't help us with the Congress, so I've got to bring those guys in and say, look, I just learned privately.

You see my point?

Any agreements or anything, and then you just continue to remember that.

It doesn't mean you don't tell state about it in the proper time.

But this, we want to remember that this is of such enormous importance, and this is not to have, this is not to have, but this is the most that we have to have in terms of this.

Many times, you see that this, some of the state people, well, well, they're trying to look at how it's invaded, rather than, because if we didn't, and you didn't, then what happened?

We had to die.

And it's the same true of the Russian people.

So I quote my commentary in the stream,

uh be a sport in japan but under whatever you think or the contrary and other things anything that you think we should know first let us know we do that as long as i get your walking

Well, that's my point.

Well, they just leaked another one, so now I'm sending always a minor conversation.

Doesn't that get a side thing?

I just send them a fact-throwing message and say, from here on in, I'm not going to quote any source.

Because I don't want some of these French-speaking names appearing in the press.

One came, a cable was leaked.

in January about a meeting hall.

And it was really, it was quoting Mr. de Beaumarchais.

Of course, as soon as that happens, then our sources will be brought up.

So we're not mentioning anything about that.

We're nothing to her.

I mean, we've had many about that channel.

They've just never heard of it.

They just can't help it.

They're just weakers.

Well, anyway.

Well, that's an important matter.

We're going to do that.

Ah, I think.

Oh, it's great.

It's great.

You had a talking or something?

I had one last night.

I wasn't there.

Oh, I'll try to be there all year.

Oh, I know.

Oh, I see.

What do you do at the other house?

Okay.

Before you go and see Paul Brown, how do you do it?

I heard that, uh, in a news conference this morning, something out of state was being checked, and, uh, we were required to agree to a document.

So, is Kelly, was that, I don't visualize, was that put out there?

What, for what purpose?

They had not even said it was being discussed, but why did they say we were agreeing to it?

Mr. President, uh, you will sit away, and you have probably forgotten.

You started that one-lane track, former Fed to Russia.

I know.

I told them that I had a sergeant, but they forget that.

You said that on Air Force One, on the way out to the pickup of the astronauts, you gave four men orders.

This whole thing has to be handled.

I don't want credit for my effort to handle the whole thing out of here.

But three weeks ago, when we got into the final phase of the restricted interstate,

What was your reaction to

Joe and I, I think it was very clear at times, you know, that he went up and talked to the North.

I believe it.

I think that's the reason why...

I think, though, it seems to me that he did that.

I don't think that was related so much to this.

I think that Joe and I just decided, they probably told him then they were going to have a meeting.

And he was surprised.

He made the move just when we had told him about that.

Well, I think, no, I don't think.

Well, maybe that show up at any rate, to any rate.

I think, though, this does show that you're not that meeting.

Right.

You know, I just want to tell you, I was just going over a couple of things with Henry, and he told me that he was having lunch with you, so he'll be 10 minutes late, so don't blame him.

Blame me, will you?

Yeah, because I just had a couple of minutes.

I had a good time.

I had to move.

I can't be able to work on this bus thing this afternoon.

So, oh, you got any answers on that?

There isn't.

It just tears the country apart.

But I think I'll come up with something to treat you to.

And he's, he's, eventually, Henry will be, he'll be down about ten minutes late, if that's all right with you.

Bye.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I appreciate that.

We, we've got some, incidentally, I would like for Henry to talk a little to you when he's sitting here right now about the Soviet thing, because that's very important.

You see, that's the other side.

And some people, Bill, have incorrectly thought that by doing the China thing that this would blow the Soviet thing.

Well, it's not doing that at all.

Not doing that at all.

We're playing both in an even-handed way.

That's what we all want.

Right.

And we've also, I've talked to him about arranging this business of the, you know, the informal meetings, you know, with the committee and so forth.

So we're .

Okay.

And you're, have you played any golf these days?

I quit the games and I quit.

Oh, yeah.

All right.

Now, you're too, you're too good to give it up, all right?

Yeah.

That's right.

Well, you're very kind to say that.

Well, try to keep a close touch.

Okay.

You know what he said?

He said, I thought you did a great job.

You know, why doesn't Rogers pick that line up?

I mean, here's the whole right segment.

It's universal, Mr. President.

I mean, when Maasai, I'm sure he wanted something.

He said, I want you to know, he has requested yesterday to see me for two and a half minutes.

Well, he wanted a minor favor, that if I go to that conference at the end of April, can he ride with me?

He also has the right with David Rockefeller.

So this was not the reason to see me.

He said, I wanted to see you, to tell you.

I'm privately with the President.

Wherever I go now, there's a tremendous groundswell for him.

This was a tremendous achievement and so on.

And so it couldn't have been.

And Cromer said it was a superb professional job.

They all are full of admiration of it in Britain.

And he particularly complimented also the communique for its professionalism.

And it's unbelievable what we're up against here.

But what we're up against here is a mental case.

Thank you.

I have these two other points.

The State Department memorandum on Taiwan that you sent to me, it did seem to me, when I raised one of those questions, had some thoughtful points in it.

And I think I want you to continue to get them to, down in the bureaucracy, they've got to have some bright guys that are trying to

I thought that we ought to write letters to the

to several major leaders.

I agree.

To he, to Pompidou, to Braun, etc.

You know, for the ones in Andesado, a letter with regard to this trip.

It would be a lot more forthcoming with Pompidou and that.

A personal letter for me is part of the days of the show.

I'm going to give them on Monday.

If you could put, lower somebody's work on it, and that I want to write it in person, all right?

but put a little more in it, and it's normal that we, what do you think?

Oh, it's an excellent idea, and I gave Cromer a little briefing yesterday.

And that we will continue to, we will continue to be in touch with him before, both before and after the Soviet Union.

And he'll say, I want you to know that I will continue to be in touch before and after the Soviet Union.

I think that's the good I did.

And that gives them a great interest.

Like the Japanese thing, Dr. Hayes was looking forward to his visit.

Or the British who said, we'll be talking to Cromer and building on Cromer and things.

And Brown, not much, but not much.

But you see, I come back to this prosecution and the presence of putting out that little docking thing.

Well, what the hell good does it do?

They've destroyed the whole thing from here.

You know, we had that option any time in the last three months, and we didn't do it.

And they had nothing to do with it.

Even then, it doesn't make any difference.

They should let you do it.

He understands truly.

Oh, yes.

Well, and Watson said he was at a chief of mission meeting at which the State Department people were constantly attacking the White House, and he said that he would resign if he called Irvin and told him to get them under control.

Now, Irvin is his brother-in-law.

Watson is not the brightest guy in the world.

Totally loyal.

What about the one-point thing?

What about the Klosky thing?

He talked to Rogers and it stuck.

Well, it must have been just for him to get him right.

Yes.

I think they're just determined now to... No way they're going to do it.

There's no way they can win.

It's a goddamn, there's no way you can fight the draft.

The bill there raises something with me.

I want to be in charge of Russia.

That was the biggest mistake.

He should have just tried to do it without telling me.

I don't know if he said it.

No, he could have said, Mr. President, how can I help you?

You are the one.

There is no independent State Department in any circumstances.

The great Secretaries of State

Were the servants of the President not the servants of the Foreign Service?

They were.

You know, when you look back, oh, all those guys.

It's the job of a cabinet officer to ease the life of the President.

You shouldn't go to the President to get the President to tell him how it should be the other way around.

But I think when I see the briefing this afternoon, as I shall, we'll get it under control.

We'll act in Europe.

But just to tell him where he should go with what, not making him go to hell.

I mean, I'm going to split the thing up into so many agencies that no one can claim they did it all.

That's how we learn in foreign states that that's the way it's going to be done.

Then you'll let them know that we've done that.

Yeah.

That I've done.

Well, no, I'll just have to bring and go to these various people.

Yeah.

And then states can draft the agreement, but in a way that's appropriate.

Anytime you feel it's necessary for me to... Well, I think it'd be helpful.

I told him already you'd see him.

If you just saw him for ten minutes next week when he comes in here, and to express your own personal... And the success of the summit, the fact that he's working on it, he must work closer with you.

Funnily enough, they had the same problem we had.

I told him about private meetings between you and Brezhnev, and he said, it's guaranteed, it will happen, and there'll be many of them, but if they make it a formal thing now, there'll be a terrible row between Brezhnev, Kuzikin, and Podkornik.

So they'd consider it a favor if we didn't make it a formal thing now and just have it as a private understanding, I said to him.

Is he going to arrange for Rodgers then?

He said Rodgers is going to be so busy.

He said, you know, he can keep Rodgers so busy.

And he says he'll run in whichever leader isn't with you.

So I have to see, you know, what Gorn is going to say.

But he knows the game.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, no, he doesn't, sir.

If Green knows the game on Rodgers, he will not be...

Well, he's learned, after all, that everything they try to do, to say, didn't get it.

I'll call you when it comes out.