Nixon, Kissinger & White House photographer on Foreign Policy

59:07He was told by Rogers today, in the presence of consistent technical evidence, that no matter what anyone told him, including me, he, Rogers, was going to handle the contact, and he was going to check everything.
59:21Then, unless you told him this or... Rogers doesn't know about the other channels.
59:25No, but what we need from him is that if there's an agreement about to be signed or something, that we get a two-day notice, so that we can get the technical evidence here.
59:35and that we can give him actual instructions on how to handle it.
59:41And he'll do it.
59:42I mean, Watson is... Roger's totally smart with everything, but you don't have to know what Roger's told him.
59:50If you just tell him that he should handle it on the same kind of basis as he can handle others, then Watson is totally on your side.
1:00:02What do you want me to tell them?
1:00:04Why can't you come to the room?
1:00:07Because I'm already late for lunch.
1:00:10Oh, I'll take it.
1:00:14Yeah, well, let's bring him in.
1:00:17Well, let's see if we can get the food back.
1:00:24And you're leaving.
1:00:25But why?
1:00:25Well, I'm not going to get anything.
1:00:29Oh, really?
1:00:29It's not a fantasy, though.
1:00:30No, it's not a fantasy.
1:00:31Oh, well.
1:00:31Or it's good.
1:00:32You better be checking him out.
1:00:36Did Henry bless him?
1:00:37He said yes.
1:00:37He's lucky.
1:00:38He's lucky to get you.
1:00:39But he's sitting there.
1:00:40He's got a marvelous job, of course.
1:00:42And I don't know how long he'll work.
1:00:45Well, thank you.
1:00:47Any more questions?
1:00:53We're going to make sure it doesn't sound so difficult.
1:00:57I don't have any other questions.
1:01:01You don't have any other questions.
1:01:03There's a little top hat.
1:01:03Billy will get it, too.
1:01:04And I'll sleep with it.
1:01:06Why do you want to be here?
1:01:08We're going to meet you.
1:01:13We're going to meet you.
1:01:16Oh, I know that place well.
1:01:16Sure.
1:01:17No, we'll be in London.
1:01:18Oh, in London.
1:01:19Yes, you will.
1:01:22How old are you?
1:01:26He's 36 years old.
1:01:27Well, I'll give you my congratulations.
1:01:29We just wish you the very best.
1:01:32And see that when the wedding is coming, that we see that we give them things like a little note so they can put it on their scrapbook.
1:01:46All right.
1:01:48You don't have to refer to any other kind of address.
1:01:51You were good when I told you.
1:01:54All right.
1:01:55We can get a picture, but I'll make it.
1:02:01Yeah, okay.
1:02:04How much time did the businessman take of your time?
1:02:08Well, that'll knock off, right?
1:02:17They can't work you that hard.
1:02:18I mean, you've got enough to do when you're saying full drive and test.
1:02:24You can do almost every two weeks and stuff like that.
1:02:30Two or three weeks.
1:02:31You know, to heck with it.
1:02:31We see it, George.
1:02:32I mean, it's worth our while.
1:02:32But by God, those businessmen are not easy to manage.
1:02:34No, no.
1:02:45Well, they're assholes.
1:02:47You know, they could take it for the night sound.
1:02:51Who arranged this old Henry?
1:02:53I think, uh, I think that he did.
1:02:55Yeah.
1:02:55He had a lot of experience.
1:03:21Ah, you see him out there, Senator?
1:03:35Right here.
1:03:35Oh, Cromer was in yesterday, and congratulations on what you did.
1:03:41What Senator Mathias wanted this morning is to say that he's proud to be in the same party with you.
1:03:47Oh, my God.
1:03:50He said wherever he travels, he finds total support.
1:03:53He's never been away from support.
1:03:58It's just interesting.
1:03:59What time is your dinner?
1:04:02Your lunch?
1:04:03I'll have the present.
1:04:30there are occasions and there may be something that good work agreement was reached or something you know or something well for example one example was
1:04:42on things like that, you should back down on me first before telling anybody in state.
1:04:50Because they'll leave it out of the city, and I've got it.
1:04:53And they don't help us with the Congress, so I've got to bring those guys in and say, look, I just learned privately.
1:05:00You see my point?
1:05:03Any agreements or anything, and then you just continue to remember that.
1:05:07It doesn't mean you don't tell state about it in the proper time.
1:05:10But this, we want to remember that this is of such enormous importance, and this is not to have, this is not to have, but this is the most that we have to have in terms of this.
1:05:23Many times, you see that this, some of the state people, well, well, they're trying to look at how it's invaded, rather than, because if we didn't, and you didn't, then what happened?
1:05:31We had to die.
1:05:32And it's the same true of the Russian people.
1:05:35So I quote my commentary in the stream,
1:05:38uh be a sport in japan but under whatever you think or the contrary and other things anything that you think we should know first let us know we do that as long as i get your walking
1:05:58Well, that's my point.
1:06:04Well, they just leaked another one, so now I'm sending always a minor conversation.
1:06:10Doesn't that get a side thing?
1:06:12I just send them a fact-throwing message and say, from here on in, I'm not going to quote any source.
1:06:18Because I don't want some of these French-speaking names appearing in the press.
1:06:22One came, a cable was leaked.
1:06:25in January about a meeting hall.
1:06:27And it was really, it was quoting Mr. de Beaumarchais.
1:06:31Of course, as soon as that happens, then our sources will be brought up.
1:06:36So we're not mentioning anything about that.
1:06:41We're nothing to her.
1:06:43I mean, we've had many about that channel.
1:06:45They've just never heard of it.
1:06:46They just can't help it.
1:06:48They're just weakers.
1:06:51Well, anyway.
1:06:52Well, that's an important matter.
1:06:54We're going to do that.
1:06:56Ah, I think.
1:06:57Oh, it's great.
1:06:58It's great.
1:06:59You had a talking or something?
1:07:00I had one last night.
1:07:02I wasn't there.
1:07:07Oh, I'll try to be there all year.
1:07:11Oh, I know.
1:07:12Oh, I see.
1:07:14What do you do at the other house?
1:07:23Okay.
1:07:23Before you go and see Paul Brown, how do you do it?
1:07:38I heard that, uh, in a news conference this morning, something out of state was being checked, and, uh, we were required to agree to a document.
1:07:46So, is Kelly, was that, I don't visualize, was that put out there?
1:07:49What, for what purpose?
1:07:52They had not even said it was being discussed, but why did they say we were agreeing to it?
1:07:57Mr. President, uh, you will sit away, and you have probably forgotten.
1:08:01You started that one-lane track, former Fed to Russia.
1:08:05I know.
1:08:05I told them that I had a sergeant, but they forget that.
1:08:08You said that on Air Force One, on the way out to the pickup of the astronauts, you gave four men orders.
1:08:14This whole thing has to be handled.
1:08:17I don't want credit for my effort to handle the whole thing out of here.
1:08:21But three weeks ago, when we got into the final phase of the restricted interstate,
1:08:34What was your reaction to
1:09:02Joe and I, I think it was very clear at times, you know, that he went up and talked to the North.
1:09:09I believe it.
1:09:10I think that's the reason why...
1:09:12I think, though, it seems to me that he did that.
1:09:14I don't think that was related so much to this.
1:09:17I think that Joe and I just decided, they probably told him then they were going to have a meeting.
1:09:23And he was surprised.
1:09:24He made the move just when we had told him about that.
1:09:26Well, I think, no, I don't think.
1:09:29Well, maybe that show up at any rate, to any rate.
1:09:33I think, though, this does show that you're not that meeting.
1:09:37Right.
1:09:43You know, I just want to tell you, I was just going over a couple of things with Henry, and he told me that he was having lunch with you, so he'll be 10 minutes late, so don't blame him.
1:09:53Blame me, will you?
1:09:54Yeah, because I just had a couple of minutes.
1:09:56I had a good time.
1:09:57I had to move.
1:09:57I can't be able to work on this bus thing this afternoon.
1:10:01So, oh, you got any answers on that?
1:10:06There isn't.
1:10:07It just tears the country apart.
1:10:08But I think I'll come up with something to treat you to.
1:10:11And he's, he's, eventually, Henry will be, he'll be down about ten minutes late, if that's all right with you.
1:10:19Bye.
1:10:20Yeah, yeah.
1:10:21Well, I appreciate that.
1:10:22We, we've got some, incidentally, I would like for Henry to talk a little to you when he's sitting here right now about the Soviet thing, because that's very important.
1:10:32You see, that's the other side.
1:10:34And some people, Bill, have incorrectly thought that by doing the China thing that this would blow the Soviet thing.
1:10:42Well, it's not doing that at all.
1:10:44Not doing that at all.
1:10:45We're playing both in an even-handed way.
1:10:49That's what we all want.
1:10:51Right.
1:10:52And we've also, I've talked to him about arranging this business of the, you know, the informal meetings, you know, with the committee and so forth.
1:10:59So we're .
1:11:00Okay.
1:11:03And you're, have you played any golf these days?
1:11:05I quit the games and I quit.
1:11:10Oh, yeah.
1:11:11All right.
1:11:15Now, you're too, you're too good to give it up, all right?
1:11:27Yeah.
1:11:30That's right.
1:11:33Well, you're very kind to say that.
1:11:34Well, try to keep a close touch.
1:11:37Okay.
1:11:38You know what he said?
1:11:41He said, I thought you did a great job.
1:11:43You know, why doesn't Rogers pick that line up?
1:11:47I mean, here's the whole right segment.
1:11:51It's universal, Mr. President.
1:11:53I mean, when Maasai, I'm sure he wanted something.
1:11:56He said, I want you to know, he has requested yesterday to see me for two and a half minutes.
1:12:02Well, he wanted a minor favor, that if I go to that conference at the end of April, can he ride with me?
1:12:08He also has the right with David Rockefeller.
1:12:11So this was not the reason to see me.
1:12:13He said, I wanted to see you, to tell you.
1:12:15I'm privately with the President.
1:12:17Wherever I go now, there's a tremendous groundswell for him.
1:12:23This was a tremendous achievement and so on.
1:12:28And so it couldn't have been.
1:12:34And Cromer said it was a superb professional job.
1:12:38They all are full of admiration of it in Britain.
1:12:40And he particularly complimented also the communique for its professionalism.
1:12:46And it's unbelievable what we're up against here.
1:12:52But what we're up against here is a mental case.
1:12:54Thank you.
1:12:54I have these two other points.
1:12:55The State Department memorandum on Taiwan that you sent to me, it did seem to me, when I raised one of those questions, had some thoughtful points in it.
1:13:14And I think I want you to continue to get them to, down in the bureaucracy, they've got to have some bright guys that are trying to
1:13:21I thought that we ought to write letters to the
1:13:44to several major leaders.
1:13:48I agree.
1:13:48To he, to Pompidou, to Braun, etc.
1:13:52You know, for the ones in Andesado, a letter with regard to this trip.
1:13:57It would be a lot more forthcoming with Pompidou and that.
1:14:02A personal letter for me is part of the days of the show.
1:14:05I'm going to give them on Monday.
1:14:07If you could put, lower somebody's work on it, and that I want to write it in person, all right?
1:14:13but put a little more in it, and it's normal that we, what do you think?
1:14:21Oh, it's an excellent idea, and I gave Cromer a little briefing yesterday.
1:14:25And that we will continue to, we will continue to be in touch with him before, both before and after the Soviet Union.
1:14:31And he'll say, I want you to know that I will continue to be in touch before and after the Soviet Union.
1:14:40I think that's the good I did.
1:14:41And that gives them a great interest.
1:14:43Like the Japanese thing, Dr. Hayes was looking forward to his visit.
1:14:48Or the British who said, we'll be talking to Cromer and building on Cromer and things.
1:14:54And Brown, not much, but not much.
1:15:01But you see, I come back to this prosecution and the presence of putting out that little docking thing.
1:15:08Well, what the hell good does it do?
1:15:11They've destroyed the whole thing from here.
1:15:14You know, we had that option any time in the last three months, and we didn't do it.
1:15:19And they had nothing to do with it.
1:15:22Even then, it doesn't make any difference.
1:15:24They should let you do it.
1:15:27He understands truly.
1:15:30Oh, yes.
1:15:32Oh, yes.
1:15:33Oh, yes.
1:15:35Well, and Watson said he was at a chief of mission meeting at which the State Department people were constantly attacking the White House, and he said that he would resign if he called Irvin and told him to get them under control.
1:15:53Now, Irvin is his brother-in-law.
1:15:59Watson is not the brightest guy in the world.
1:16:01Totally loyal.
1:16:02Totally loyal.
1:16:03What about the one-point thing?
1:16:08What about the Klosky thing?
1:16:11He talked to Rogers and it stuck.
1:16:12Well, it must have been just for him to get him right.
1:16:18Yes.
1:16:19I think they're just determined now to... No way they're going to do it.
1:16:23There's no way they can win.
1:16:24It's a goddamn, there's no way you can fight the draft.
1:16:26The bill there raises something with me.
1:16:28I want to be in charge of Russia.
1:16:30That was the biggest mistake.
1:16:32He should have just tried to do it without telling me.
1:16:35I don't know if he said it.
1:16:39No, he could have said, Mr. President, how can I help you?
1:16:42You are the one.
1:16:44There is no independent State Department in any circumstances.
1:16:48The great Secretaries of State
1:16:52Were the servants of the President not the servants of the Foreign Service?
1:16:55They were.
1:16:59You know, when you look back, oh, all those guys.
1:17:06It's the job of a cabinet officer to ease the life of the President.
1:17:10You shouldn't go to the President to get the President to tell him how it should be the other way around.
1:17:20But I think when I see the briefing this afternoon, as I shall, we'll get it under control.
1:17:25We'll act in Europe.
1:17:27But just to tell him where he should go with what, not making him go to hell.
1:17:33I mean, I'm going to split the thing up into so many agencies that no one can claim they did it all.
1:17:41That's how we learn in foreign states that that's the way it's going to be done.
1:17:45Then you'll let them know that we've done that.
1:17:49Yeah.
1:17:49That I've done.
1:17:50Well, no, I'll just have to bring and go to these various people.
1:17:52Yeah.
1:17:53And then states can draft the agreement, but in a way that's appropriate.
1:18:03Anytime you feel it's necessary for me to... Well, I think it'd be helpful.
1:18:08I told him already you'd see him.
1:18:10If you just saw him for ten minutes next week when he comes in here, and to express your own personal... And the success of the summit, the fact that he's working on it, he must work closer with you.
1:18:26Funnily enough, they had the same problem we had.
1:18:30I told him about private meetings between you and Brezhnev, and he said, it's guaranteed, it will happen, and there'll be many of them, but if they make it a formal thing now, there'll be a terrible row between Brezhnev, Kuzikin, and Podkornik.
1:18:44So they'd consider it a favor if we didn't make it a formal thing now and just have it as a private understanding, I said to him.
1:18:55Is he going to arrange for Rodgers then?
1:18:57He said Rodgers is going to be so busy.
1:18:59He said, you know, he can keep Rodgers so busy.
1:19:02And he says he'll run in whichever leader isn't with you.
1:19:06So I have to see, you know, what Gorn is going to say.
1:19:11But he knows the game.
1:19:13Oh, yeah.
1:19:13Oh, no, he doesn't, sir.
1:19:15If Green knows the game on Rodgers, he will not be...
1:19:20Well, he's learned, after all, that everything they try to do, to say, didn't get it.
1:19:29I'll call you when it comes out.

Nixon, Kissinger & White House photographer on Foreign Policy

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Also recorded on March 10, 1972

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