Nixon, Haldeman & Ehrlichman on ITT anti-trust case and Dita Beard memorandum

1:20:42I thought we'd have some fun today.
1:20:43Which way?
1:20:43Ah.
1:20:43Well, they talked a little.
1:20:44They talked a lot about it actually, John.
1:20:47They talked a lot about it.
1:21:10They talked a lot about it
1:21:11Basically, it was a black man's operation, and we don't buy anything like that.
1:21:18He came and killed her.
1:21:20That's because people have trouble with that.
1:21:24That's absurd.
1:21:24What do I do?
1:21:25I should tell them to do it.
1:21:26You know what I mean?
1:21:27Tell them to do it.
1:21:28I don't think so.
1:21:28What's beyond that, which you should be aware of, would be what we call, which is what you called my son.
1:21:36I know.
1:21:36I really laced into it.
1:21:37It was a very, very tough moment for him.
1:21:40Which Kleindienst then went in, because he was very shook, I mean, just right out of his shoes, went in to talk to Mitchell about it.
1:21:46And Mitchell came to see me about it.
1:21:47Mitchell came to see me.
1:21:48I said, let's settle it for this.
1:21:49This is the main thing, Mr. Chief of Government.
1:21:51Mitchell was, you know, Mitchell did, last night, I saw this, that he had no instruction on you, all this stuff.
1:21:58And Eric prepared on it.
1:22:01But the reason I called Kleindienst was...
1:22:04The earlier one came, and I said, Flanagan had broken his pick.
1:22:07He said, we made this decision.
1:22:09He said, you've got to take it.
1:22:14And that's what I did.
1:22:15But not on this.
1:22:16It wasn't just on his kill.
1:22:18It was on the whole thing.
1:22:19I said, there are all sorts of things.
1:22:21You've got to get McLaren in line on all these cases.
1:22:25Well, it's kind of dull to launch that.
1:22:28I've been tired today.
1:22:29I've had a pretty good
1:22:32built up on his press conference, and he's hit the Democratic, he's hit the American Telephone and Telegraph Company, which, by the way, is violating the law twice by the people that saw telephone facilities at Democratic Convention when the Democrats owed them $1.5 million from their 1968 convention and campaign.
1:22:50And he's gone into the whole thing that this is a contribution
1:23:01to a more than $100,000 guarantee to the city of San Diego, which has been falsely alleged to have been given to the Republican National Convention.
1:23:09Said the federal criminal code, as far as contributions, includes a loan or any value.
1:23:14Carrying a $1.5 million debt for four years, and then consenting to increase the size of the debt with no assurance of repayment, must be considered at the very least a loan, if not an outright gift.
1:23:24And sure, there's something of value as to the possible statute.
1:23:28The deal unjustly discriminates against all of us who pay our bills on time or find our phone service cut off.
1:23:34That's a good line.
1:23:36That's a good line.
1:23:38I don't think they're going to cut off.
1:23:40The wires carry it.
1:23:43Call for public hearings to investigate the alleged... Oh, you can make a law because they want to keep Anderson's testimony going.
1:23:51It's free to be a lie to stand because we've got a first free to break.
1:23:56That's not...
1:24:00You've got to understand that my call at Linnies did not relate to IT&T.
1:24:04It related to the whole Justice Act.
1:24:07Can you trust me?
1:24:08The thing that's important here is that Flanagan put Irving on the hook.
1:24:12Now, let me ask you one thing.
1:24:14Did Flanagan have any connection with this law?
1:24:17What kind?
1:24:18The name.
1:24:19That's the thing I'm concerned about.
1:24:23Because he was pushing hard on this case.
1:24:30No, I don't know.
1:24:31In fairness, Ernest John didn't mention any specific case.
1:24:35He didn't matter.
1:24:36He just said, we've got all these cases of injustice.
1:24:38And he says, you've got to look.
1:24:39And I said, well, look, I don't know.
1:24:41You've got to call him.
1:24:44So I called him.
1:24:44Well, today they had Jack Anderson, Scott Hume back there testifying.
1:24:49We had asked for his notes yesterday because he, as he detailed notes on his conversation, he appeared in his interview with him.
1:24:57And they were pushing on the notes and before he pulled out the thing about mentioning the president, you know, the official said the president said the president.
1:25:06So Cook pressed him hard on his notes.
1:25:08He had said he couldn't give them to the reporters because he wasn't going to turn them over to his committee.
1:25:15Cook pressed him hard on his notes and said that the committee would like to see them.
1:25:21And that guy said, I'm sorry, Senator, I can't give you the notes, because I've turned them over to Joe Gloss of Senator Kennedy's staff.
1:25:33So, Cook is now, has done now, I'm sure, has risen up in the committee hearing and said, I'm assisting that we end these hearings immediately and we go into executive session.
1:25:50This committee is being used for partisan political purposes, and it's going to go into a big harangue about what's being done in the committee.
1:25:58And he's going to insist on going to executive session, even though Eastland has agreed to go to executive session.
1:26:06And then Cook is going to go out.
1:26:08before the cameras and scream the time out of it.
1:26:13But he said they've got to walk out after everything and talk to those cameras.
1:26:19Cook is going to do that.
1:26:20Goldwater is going to hit it beforehand.
1:26:22And Gold got this whole thing before his press conference had ended.
1:26:27He got it during his press conference.
1:26:29So he and his press conference hit the thing that this clearly now is shown for what it is, which is a Kennedy-Anderson conspiracy.
1:26:39And they're going to start telling him, I'm Lee Anderson.
1:26:42But Bob, are they going to ask for the notes from Kennedy's man?
1:26:46That's the one I'm sure.
1:26:49You see, if Anderson's leg man says, executive privilege, I mean, the newspaper man's privilege, doesn't let me turn it over to the committee, why does he turn it over then to a senator's assistant president?
1:27:01Have they made that point?
1:27:02Sure.
1:27:02And that's exactly, that's what, that's the whole basis on which they're blowing it up and moving forward.
1:27:09Now, we've also got a fair chance on this Peter Beard thing.
1:27:15Why?
1:27:16Well, her memo is a fake.
1:27:18A fake?
1:27:19Well, it apparently wasn't written until January.
1:27:24And it wasn't written on an IT&T typewriter.
1:27:28She is a drinking buddy of Jack Anderson's secretary.
1:27:35The memo, the original, was never received by Marion, the guy who was sent to her.
1:27:42In fact, she said she hand-delivered it to her, but she wasn't even in the city the day she said she delivered it to her.
1:27:48How long are they going to get that across?
1:27:50Is Marion testifying?
1:27:51Not yet.
1:27:52But they don't want to get that across right now.
1:27:54What they want to do is get it, need it here.
1:27:57to get her testimony, and they think they can blow it up.
1:28:01This is about the memo.
1:28:03Then you blow Jack Anderson out of the water, plus all the senators.
1:28:08How would she do it?
1:28:09Would she admit it?
1:28:10They'd admit something.
1:28:13And there's a lot.
1:28:14Don't get into the details.
1:28:15They're working on this now.
1:28:17I'm sure.
1:28:18There are people out to see her.
1:28:19A lot of things being done.
1:28:21Lots being taken care of.
1:28:22And it just may all work out.
1:28:26Because it was.
1:28:27It was, but how could she admit it without destroying herself?
1:28:32She thinks she's destroyed now.
1:28:36She is.
1:28:36She lost her job at IED.
1:28:38Well, she can't get it back.
1:28:41That's what they ought to do.
1:28:44They need a good PR director at their Hawaii hotel, apparently.
1:28:50And the purpose, though, that she had to come in.
1:28:53Or if she can't get in, but she may not, she's having clots and a lot of problems, she may die, which is the other problem.
1:29:01And I think we'll get this done before she does.
1:29:04Well, what they're trying to, what they want to do is try to get things set up so that the committee council can go out and take a deposition from her, a statement from her.
1:29:19Which would be the best way to do it.
1:29:21Well, let me .
1:29:24Yeah, Don.
1:29:25Great.
1:29:26Well, that's good.
1:29:28These things generally, that's going to be together, of course, in here and on the television.
1:29:32But we can't do that.
1:29:33These things generally, they're so wrong.
1:29:35I mean, it's like the idea that the man, like this guy said, she said, the president called Mitchell and said, do something for ID&T.
1:29:46What the hell would I do for ID&T?
1:29:47I don't care about the God damn company.
1:29:50No, it's ID&T.
1:29:52We have the principle, which we worked out in the cabinet room,
1:29:56And that's where Connolly got into, you know, where we all agreed that we should discontinue this harassing of business for bigness.
1:30:04That was the whole deal, see.
1:30:05Morris Sanders, remember, he had a great big long name.
1:30:09And the Gov.
1:30:09Justice Department wasn't doing it.
1:30:12And that's why we gave Klein v. Stout.
1:30:19So anyway, we've got Klein v. Stout.
1:30:23I've talked to many.
1:30:25I've talked to many.
1:30:26I've talked to, not mentioned, but I've talked to the comics, the English books, and my own books.
1:30:36He said, you're not going to escalate it too much then.
1:30:39He says, leave it where it is.
1:30:40He says, it's one of those things.
1:30:42It'll pass.
1:30:42He says, don't let everybody into this hurts for a while.
1:30:46There's going to be more of it.
1:30:48But he says, don't escalate it with a medical attack.
1:30:50Not at this point.
1:30:52I don't know if this happens with anyone or not.
1:30:56But I believe it was a medical attack.
1:30:57It looks like.
1:30:58And also, you've got to keep the president in the hell out of it.
1:31:01If we can keep this one going away, we've got a couple good breaks now.
1:31:05You really think there's already good breaks now?
1:31:07Well, they do think Colson is the area of good.
1:31:10No, they do think it's a good break.
1:31:13They do?
1:31:13Oh, sure.
1:31:14The other thing is, as I said, it's a chance.
1:31:16If we can get her twisted around, that would be good.
1:31:19If we can't, why don't we just... We may tell what she may.
1:31:26You say, Bob, she wrote the memo in January?
1:31:29Well, that's what they're convinced of, man.
1:31:31See, they've got a whole apparatus going around.
1:31:33They can't find the typewriter.
1:31:35Why don't you give them that?
1:31:37That's what it's about.
1:31:39Probably because he wouldn't talk to her at the Derby.
1:31:41That's my guess.
1:31:42Well, that's what Mitchell says, and that's what Julian is...
1:31:45The Derby was six months before.
1:31:47The Derby's in May.
1:31:49Yeah.
1:31:50Right?
1:31:50Well, the settlement was in January a lot.
1:31:52I know, but the memorandum written in January...
1:31:55The memorandum was apparently only written a couple months ago, and it was written... Well, then my point is, if a memorandum was written a couple months ago, for Christ's sakes, she must have gotten mad at him.
1:32:05I don't know what the guy's name is.
1:32:08I'm just making up a name.
1:32:14He identified the name.
1:32:15He said so-and-so...
1:32:26Senator Kennedy spent.
1:32:28And then, thank God, we had one smart senator on there.
1:32:31Well, Cook has been doing a good job.
1:32:33Well, he's a nut cutter.
1:32:35Goldwater's hitting this, too.
1:32:37He got the word on it, so he's going out and blasting the thing, too.
1:32:41But he's doing it just to the outside.
1:32:49Well, I think one of the kind of things we have to be talking about today is all that bullshit security thing, the busted address, and that crap around about the comics that is just goddamn ridiculous in this business of ours.
1:33:04Well, that's the point.
1:33:05And also, these kind of dead commentators say this is the worst scandal in our history.
1:33:11Well, they've quit saying that.
1:33:13A couple of them said it a couple of days ago.
1:33:14Nobody's said it recently.
1:33:15They haven't severally last night.
1:33:18Oh, it was a big voting, but not as the worst scandal.
1:33:21You don't think so?
1:33:22It probably is.
1:33:24No one's got the money.
1:33:25That's the point exactly.
1:33:26Nobody is benefiting from it.
1:33:30Bill will find me.
1:33:31He'll find me.
1:33:32I think we did make a mistake.
1:33:33It was not in terms of probably or not.
1:33:35It was wrong here.
1:33:35But I didn't have a chance to think about it.
1:33:37You and I both agree.
1:33:39They probably should have turned the money back right away.
1:33:42We don't want to talk about that.
1:33:43But that was probably just a mention of guilt.
1:33:47See, that's why we didn't want to do it.
1:33:48What do you think?
1:33:49I think we're better.
1:33:51I don't know.
1:33:52I don't think we would have made much difference.
1:33:54No?
1:33:54They would have gone ahead.
1:33:59Because you say that Dina Beard is a bringing buddy of Jagmeet's secretary.
1:34:03Very clueless.
1:34:07Call her.
1:34:09Call her.
1:34:11Call the secretary.
1:34:14I've got guests to play around with.
1:34:15I'm saying you don't know either.
1:34:20How long have you known her?
1:34:22You know, I mean, just the anger of it.
1:34:24You see, I've heard about the beauty of a congressional hearing.
1:34:27Yeah, I wish I were down there.
1:34:31I agree, you see, because the beauty of it is you are not limited by the law.
1:34:35You can bring in hearsay, which they're doing here, say, or remove, but also we brought in hearsay.
1:34:43But the other thing is you can call a witness, whether the witness is relevant or not.
1:34:46Just call them.
1:34:49You've got to call that woman up there and say, all right,
1:34:52Well, if we can't get Deena Beard, she sure as hell should do that.
1:34:55If we can get Deena Beard, that's the beautiful thing.
1:34:57And if it comes through the right way.
1:35:00But on the other hand, you've got to realize the problem is she comes in and her name's on it.
1:35:06They'll say, oh, you're doing it because ITT's getting off.
1:35:09That's right.
1:35:10So that's a problem.
1:35:12Yep.
1:35:13I'm afraid that's going to be worse.
1:35:15Well, the thing, ITT isn't going to commit any enjoy and solemnly.
1:35:21They thought it all through.
1:35:22We sure were a big outfit.
1:35:25That's why I said the big outfit and all those PR guys and lawyers got in there.
1:35:28They ought to be doing a little better than they had so far.
1:35:31And they're a decent crew, too.
1:35:32I tell you the truth, you know, Janine's a decent man.
1:35:40Irony of it all is that
1:35:43all over the place about this stuff.
1:35:44He thought we were too hard.
1:35:47John Connery knew all about it.
1:35:49He knows more than Doug's on it.
1:35:51They made it the last day of the studio.
1:35:55They did that day as well.
1:35:56And then they pushed Davis and that, what was that?
1:35:58Who?
1:35:59Tom T. George.
1:36:00And Kenny King, George Zimmer, both eventually.
1:36:03They didn't like Edward.
1:36:09They got the largest
1:36:12Consent to degree seven in mystery.
1:36:25All right.
1:38:07Could you make a couple of notes?
1:38:09I had told Pete not to go to the Green Iron, not to bother going.
1:38:12I think he ought to go.
1:38:14They're asking him to go, and they're going to kid.
1:38:17And you know what I mean?
1:38:18It gives them somebody there to laugh at, Sean.
1:38:20He doesn't get one damn.
1:38:25He won't say anything.
1:38:26I'm having Henry go.
1:38:27I don't want him to appear at the administration, particularly if he's there, it doesn't show that I have no appearance.
1:38:32Would you agree with me on that?
1:38:34Yeah.
1:38:34I just, the one I'm wondering about is Rodgers, who very much doesn't want to go, but I just wonder if it's... Agnew won't go.
1:38:41I think we've got to get Agnew to go, but I just, I wonder, and they're going to get Rodgers too, and I wonder...
1:38:46He can't take it.
1:38:47I guess maybe he's better off not getting it.
1:38:50He's never going to get it.
1:38:52Okay.
1:38:57Maybe I should go.
1:38:58Okay.
1:39:02Let me say, if I go, I'm not going to let Ryder know he ain't got the guts to go.
1:39:09I don't know why you should.
1:39:23Well, I don't know.
1:39:24We've been pissed off so often at those things.
1:39:29But anyway, Dick Wilson makes an argument that you should go, or at the very least, if you don't, that the Vice President must, for a different reason, which is that the gridiron machine kicked around by the left wing, the young reporters, the libs and all that, who aren't men.
1:39:44Well, that appeals to me.
1:39:46I know.
1:39:47And the woman's libs.
1:39:47And the woman's libs.
1:39:48It's very, very strong.
1:39:50I shouldn't go there.
1:39:50The woman's libs.
1:39:51No, she's not a woman's libs.
1:39:52She's very sensitive about it.
1:39:54She said they had more to deal with than you think.
1:39:57Well, because Dick is fun with women.
1:39:59I don't think it's a satisfying thing.
1:40:01It's so bad for the limits, but... Well, what about A?
1:40:06Can we have everybody else go work on that?
1:40:12Would he accept the advice of the Vice President?
1:40:18Yes.
1:40:18That's what he said.
1:40:19If you weren't...
1:40:20If you weren't out there, Eisenhardt, either Steve or I, well, I went to all of them then, not Eisenhardt.
1:40:27Dick Wilson said two things.
1:40:28If you don't go, you should be out of town.
1:40:31And the vice president should go.
1:40:33In other words, if you were in town and just gratuitously insulted him by not going, that, he feels, would be harmful to the old line in the press corps if you were not the pilot.
1:40:56Small chunk of that.
1:41:07Yes.
1:41:07That's Wilson's wife.
1:41:23They'll focus on Henry and...
1:41:38The Henry Rogers thing, but let me say this, Donnelly, it does not bother me.
1:41:41Believe me, it does not bother me.
1:41:43I can take the risk.
1:41:46Because I just don't like to be, to appear like a jerk.
1:41:49You know, I'm just going, as if I'm psyching around.
1:41:52That's the point.
1:42:01Well, they must be feeling pretty good about that.
1:42:04Because I actually didn't carry out any of these meetings.
1:42:08One small thing.
1:42:09We've got to conserve Henry a little bit.
1:42:11I was rather surprised last night when I asked him.
1:42:19He said he had to go over to the Blair House to some business leader.
1:42:23He says he does it every two to three weeks.
1:42:26I want that knocked off.
1:42:27He doesn't even read anything.
1:42:30He doesn't do that.
1:42:34It isn't.
1:42:34It's a mixture.
1:42:35It isn't just...
1:42:37He's got it.
1:42:37I know.
1:42:50But those business leaders do not have one idea about them.
1:42:55They're not going to do a goddamn thing for a certain instance.
1:42:58Well, those groups, they have legal leaders, academic, you know, this is just business.
1:43:03Okay.
1:43:03But I just wouldn't, I mean, let me say, I don't think it's the best use of time.
1:43:08I agree.
1:43:09I mean, you know what, let me tell you what it means.
1:43:12What's the other thing that would be a good use of time?
1:43:14I mean, I brought you to it.
1:43:20And now Roger's appealing.
1:43:22That's the only thing.
1:43:23But still, Roger's up in that way.
1:43:25That's enough.
1:43:27I agree Henry wastes time with Weston and a lot of others, but I do know that he has a tendency to overschedule himself.
1:43:35He didn't pretend to be another.
1:43:38I'm the plan.
1:43:39Yeah, I understand.
1:43:40And I agree, it shouldn't be a top priority thing for Henry at all.
1:45:07And all of these investigations are going to be great fun.
1:45:11Darn right.
1:45:12It's the best kind of a committee to be on.
1:45:14I mean, that sort of thing.
1:45:15We've got to cook the nation.
1:45:18It's all the national thing.
1:45:18Somebody that gets in there and fights.
1:45:24He brought up in his question in this one thing, who brought up the question as to where the memorandum was cooked?
1:45:29Because Cook was pushing for it.
1:45:31You see what I mean?
1:45:32That was great.
1:45:33And the guy just made a mistake, finally, you know.
1:45:37He said, well, Senator, I can't give them to you.
1:45:38I've got to turn them over to somebody.
1:45:43Kennedy's man.
1:45:47So everybody's leaping up.
1:45:48And then Coke, you say, got up.
1:45:51He had to hand it to the collective saying, yeah, in the hearings, public hearings, because the committee was being used.
1:46:08You got a highlight phone call last night saying, which I don't believe, that says the president's overall positive rating is 64.
1:46:25It should be up to 55.
1:46:28I don't think he can go up that much.
1:46:30Hello?
1:46:31There's something wrong with the gallop.
1:46:33Well, yeah, but this is too much higher than ours, although he goes on it.
1:46:38The way his tail works might be different.
1:46:40The only... Only fair.
1:46:43The only fair might have moved up to... Well, no, it didn't.
1:46:50The only fair might have moved to good.
1:46:51And it's...
1:46:55That's all it got on that part of it.
1:46:57On the trip to China, it was 62 positive, 21 negative, which checks about right with ours.
1:47:03I'm busing at 4 to 1 in opposition to busing.
1:47:25He was in the field all of last week.
1:47:27He was in a little earlier than we were.
1:47:34He goes through the week.
1:47:36We and Gallup were both in over the weekend.
1:47:39He was in during the week.
1:47:41Well, we should all come up with someone saying it.
1:47:44Yeah, we should.
1:47:44I don't think anything changed in the weekend.
1:47:47It was done earlier than we thought it would be.
1:47:48Oh, yes, earlier than we thought it would be.
1:47:50IT&T, for example.
1:47:50You're closer to China now.
1:47:52Closer to China and less on IT&T.
1:47:55I do not believe IT&T would have rode that fast.
1:47:58I don't either.
1:47:59But if it did, that's about the only other thing that happened.
1:48:08The power of the strike
1:48:13And we think it is.
1:48:13But we think at least that the gallows is a little low.
1:48:19The grounds is a little low and Harris is a little high.
1:48:25So let me say, with the all being a little low, you could be more right.
1:48:28What the hell?
1:48:29If it's dropped next time, you know, it doesn't do it.
1:48:34Well, Chuck's inclination is to try to get Harris not to put this one out.
1:48:37I think maybe he's right.
1:48:42Because we don't need it now.
1:48:44Oh, yeah, everything but the approval.
1:48:47See, Dittles is out over three or four weeks anyway.
1:48:52He knows everything he's got and all that.
1:48:55Put out the China trip and all that, but he doesn't have to put out the approval.
1:48:58He doesn't.
1:48:59He often doesn't.
1:49:01And it might be better not to.
1:49:03It won't go down as low as it was, probably, and then he can show a rise, but not such a big rise, and won't show a drop.
1:49:14But Harrison thought this was right, didn't he?
1:49:16Apparently.
1:49:17This is, the Secretary got the message from Harris who was calling on his way to the airport.
1:49:24This was all he had there.
1:49:26And he said they were very rough.
1:49:44He is convinced that what happened here was all planned.
1:49:59And that it can't be.
1:50:03that the reason see he couldn't understand he says he told mitchell this when his hearings ended his regular hearing ended because he said it was a complete low piece with the committee and kennedy and tony and by and all came up and were slapping him on the shoulder and they're a great guy and we're all for you and the president has every right to appoint his own attorney general and all that and they reported about you know this big low piece thing
1:50:29And he said, I called Mitchell that night and said, there's something fishy here.
1:50:32This, you know, it just doesn't ring right.
1:50:36And then the next day or the day after, whenever it was, the Anderson column hit with the IT&T stuff.
1:50:44And Klein, he said, I then called Mitchell and said, there's what it is.
1:50:47The bastards have tried to set it up.
1:50:49So they'd report me out on this lo-fi-do-fi thing out of the committee to prove they're fair.
1:50:53To prove they're fair.
1:50:54Then they dumped this stuff in the press.
1:50:57And then one by one, senators will start eroding as the debate goes under the floor.
1:51:02Like they did on the cars law.
1:51:04They said, gee, I was foreclining these all the way, but this just creates too much doubt.
1:51:08So they can gradually peter away.
1:51:12And he says they won't vote against Kleine's vote on this.
1:51:17Not now, but they might have.
1:51:18Kleine's, part of this is his justification for putting it back into the committee.
1:51:22And he thinks it was still the right thing to do, even though he thinks we are being hurt by the PR on that.
1:51:28He said, I never dreamed the press would play it as falsely as they did.
1:51:32I didn't believe the press was playing it wrong in the back of the committee.
1:51:35I didn't either.
1:51:36I didn't support it either.
1:51:39It wouldn't have been thought out in as much detail as it is now.
1:51:45But, if these brakes work out, we may come out with a super bus, and Coneys may come out as a martyr, Anderson may come out totally discredited, and Kennedy may come out looking pretty damn bad.
1:51:59Because why?
1:52:01Because he was kind of in with Anderson to do it.
1:52:04On the Nissan, doing the political, doing you, really, the party, it was a political maneuver.
1:52:11Cheap shot.
1:52:17I don't know, it's just, I can't tell what you're going to get.
1:52:28What's your thought now on next week?
1:52:29Because we've got some things that ought to be done.
1:52:33So I held his hand.
1:52:40Hard to tell.
1:52:41You've got a late price meeting you're supposed to have, I guess, with Coffey and Shelton signed up, so.
1:52:45Yeah.
1:52:49They were about to do it on Monday.
1:52:51All right.
1:52:52What's wrong with that?
1:52:56And, uh, you have to get the cat in there, huh?
1:52:59No.
1:53:00That's not necessary.
1:53:02No, we don't.
1:53:04I don't think you need to at all.
1:53:07I do not mind the fire without the cabin.
1:53:11It's going to be a problem this year.
1:53:14No, sir.
1:53:14I would call them in once in a while if there's anything going on.
1:53:21No.
1:53:22They're out.
1:53:22They're out.
1:53:23NSC meeting.
1:53:25We need an NSC meeting, which they now would lock down on Thursday.
1:53:31uh it's time to swear in marina with i don't know if you want to do that as a spring yet ceremony we can make a well and we've gotten stories i think we have i can't get a fire stop i turned it down stein
1:53:49wanted you to do it, and they were thinking about bringing a lot of women's organizations and I just think that's done.
1:53:57I think that's it.
1:53:58I wouldn't mind swearing her in in a private setting, you know what I mean?
1:54:03Okay.
1:54:03I have her in, so I'll show it to you in other words.
1:54:07It only takes me two minutes.
1:54:10I'll have her in with the council and so forth.
1:54:15And it was an Allianz picture.
1:54:18And John Connors.
1:54:18And Connors coming to show us.
1:54:22Yeah.
1:54:23All right.
1:54:29Allianz.
1:54:31Yeah.
1:54:31But don't make it up.
1:54:32Don't make it up that we're trying to exploit the moon.
1:54:36That's why I agree.
1:54:36Yeah.
1:54:38Okay.
1:54:43Then there are a couple odds and ends on drop bodies that get cleaned up.
1:54:48Also, Otto Hashman was asked to see you on the foreign assistance bill.
1:54:54Henry and the congressional guys are both saying you should see him.
1:54:59He won't talk to Rogers and Eric Kissinger any further about it and has urgently requested a meeting.
1:55:04All right.
1:55:06Because they're having hearings on it.
1:55:12Well, we had Ron Burton that you were going to see that we still, we've never gotten to that.
1:55:22He's your new chairman of the Humanities Council, which is the other side of the arts thing.
1:55:27You ought to see him at some time.
1:55:29Very conservative.
1:55:31Just so he's mentioned.
1:55:38And may not want to bring that guy in, Texas Tech.
1:55:43It was that sort of thing.
1:55:45In fact, that's it.
1:55:47No, no, no.
1:55:50Then question of whether if you wanted John Mitchell, you want to meet with Mitchell.
1:56:01Let's get this out of the way.
1:56:03I agree.
1:56:04I think he'd just assume not.
1:56:07Now, we've got one here that I don't know whether you want to do or not, and you don't have to at all.
1:56:12They're having a briefing of the Jewish editors across the country in the White House on Monday, and they're suggesting, you know, make some drop by.
1:56:23No, no, no.
1:56:29That isn't, it might be anything Mrs. Nixon ought to do or anybody else either.
1:56:40Now the one cabinet thing we are up to that you should do sometimes is make international, you know, the Council on International Economic Policy.
1:56:49The best thing there is economic aspects of the Moscow trade and trade agreements to date.
1:56:55Legislative positions on trade negotiations.
1:56:57Well, what's Henry think of that one?
1:57:00He is definitely... Goddammit, I don't want a personal response.
1:57:05Economic aspects of Moscow trade, well I don't want that meeting.
1:57:16The reason for this is to get the people in line and include by departments and agencies to actually propose for the visit and actions after.
1:57:30Which is just to review the scenario.
1:57:43No, but I said, we're getting, I said, we're getting, we've gotten some inquiries on the press and PR handling of this and all that.
1:57:51And I said, we just, as you know, we've got to set it up with Dwight Chapin and Ron Ziegler and our logistic events group and run it all through.
1:58:00And he said, oh yeah, I'll, if there's anything, I'll turn that off.
1:58:03And he said, it would be helpful as you're planning if one of our people could sit in.
1:58:06And I said, well, of course.
1:58:09And he said, if, uh,
1:58:12John Thomas, you know, who's there with us, he's kind of said, that's great.
1:58:15He always works with our people.
1:58:22So that's no problem.
1:58:22I thought about doing this economic council on Tuesday.
1:58:29All right.
1:58:29Get that out of the way.
1:58:35The question is whether or not you want to have a press conference.
1:58:38Yeah.
1:58:40If you do, you've got to knock off Henry's NSC.
1:58:43Well, we can vote Friday morning.
1:58:46And I've got Friday clear as of now.
1:58:48I don't know what your plans are on Pat's birthday and all that.
1:58:52The only question on Friday is whether you'll take the Irish ambassador for the shamrocks.
1:59:00Yes.
1:59:03I always like to do that.
1:59:05And you've got to, if you want to, go back up to the apparently Sunday St. Patrick in New York that night.
1:59:11No.
1:59:11Go ahead.
1:59:12You don't think we should?
1:59:17I sure don't.
1:59:18What are you going to do?
1:59:19You've got a bunch of demonstrators outside raising hell at you.
1:59:22I just started an aisle.
1:59:22The vice president's the speaker, and I think we just let the vice president do the speaking.
1:59:26Yeah.
1:59:26Well, then we'll open the crisis room and screw up Garland.
1:59:30Well, Katie asked you to do it, didn't we?
1:59:34You ready to have him in that house?
2:00:29What is the situation with regard to... the person?
2:00:34I'm not sure if you can explain it without me laughing.
2:00:39That is not abolishing that television or none.
2:00:44I'll do the television in the following.
2:00:45You see, that was the time before it was abolished.
2:02:40What's your judgment on getting on the press thing?
2:02:43Do you think maybe we should try it next week?
2:02:45If I have to get ready for it, that's why I have a schedule for next week.
2:02:50Well, that would keep up with this.
2:02:53Maybe just foolish to think of going on in the office.
2:02:59I mean, why do that?
2:03:02Why not just give up television?
2:03:08It's a hell of a lot of work.
2:03:09It's more work.
2:03:10But it isn't.
2:03:11It isn't that much more work.
2:03:20don't have a real strong feeling that I would opt for television and doing it next week, rather than waiting a week.
2:03:28I think if you kind of throw them off balance, you get it behind you.
2:03:34Of course, you would agree though that the behind each other is over with.
2:03:38It would not be over.
2:03:39I think you've got to wait until Monday to see, but I think that's the only story I would follow.
2:03:50If the president denies Lincoln could write a GT, right?
2:03:55That's the news.
2:03:56You can't do that.
2:03:58That's all gotta be undone.
2:03:59A lot of them deny it anyway.
2:04:01Bill, Bill, so ask the question.
2:04:04If we get it all, if it all gets turned around this weekend... My guess is they will not get it turned around next week.
2:04:09I have a message that we can't probably do the press conference.
2:04:13But then I think we have to go directly to a follow-up thing.
2:04:16And I'll tell you what I would like to do in order to get it all killed up.
2:04:20My view this time would be to announce a week in advance
2:04:26Your advance next week, you're going to have on the telephone a televised press conference signed.
2:04:31Yeah.
2:04:33Yeah.
2:04:33Then you're totally, then Robin's totally going to use Jack as the one-on-one press conference.
2:04:39Yeah.
2:04:39You're going to announce it on Thursday or Friday.
2:04:46I'm inclined to think that we are going to have a televised press conference.
2:04:49So if something might happen between now and then, we want to answer your questions on that.
2:04:52That's always going to come up, isn't it?
2:04:55And so maybe it is, maybe you don't.
2:04:56I mean, worth considering.
2:05:06I don't think, let me say this.
2:05:10The more I think, what made me think about television, the more I think about
2:05:24What Clandy said, the more I am convinced that I, personally, frankly, that this is doing something to help us, except, of course, I was just thinking to it, just to sort of spring clear to that extent, generally speaking, it's pretty much a weak application of the fact that we are killed.
2:05:42Well, I don't mean to say it's a fact that they killed us.
2:05:47It would not kill us, but it wouldn't have been nearly as effective if we hadn't been on television.
2:05:52And also, to tell the right question, remember we used to say, thank God that's televised, because the writing press are screwers, right?
2:06:01I just don't think...
2:06:02The writing press on a press conference, in all fairness, doesn't usually screw you.
2:06:07We usually get three or four good stories out of the press conference.
2:06:12But it's like you don't get the impact.
2:06:16in any television, anything like what you get on television.
2:06:20And they have the chance to screw us.
2:06:24And some papers, or some do, balance it.
2:06:27And some do it when you're on television.
2:06:30Yeah, the people have seen you then.
2:06:31It's harder to do.
2:06:32It's just like China.
2:06:33They would have loved to have screwed you a lot worse than they tried to do in China.
2:06:36But it was damn hard for those guys to do much when the people saw you there every day.
2:06:46Let's do the other items.
2:06:48Keep the NSC, and I suggest we throw it Friday in case we, for that matter, see.
2:06:57Okay, you want to just set it Friday now?
2:06:59Set it Friday, yeah.
2:07:03Keep Wednesday and Thursday open.
2:07:05Yeah.
2:07:08Not a bad idea anyway.
2:07:09No, it works fine.
2:07:11With Monday and Thursday, if you wanted to get away, the Monday and Tuesday schedule will wind up.
2:07:15Yeah.
2:07:17Now, I'm going to turn down this year, unless you want to do it, the receiving the federal women's award.
2:07:23Hell, I'm not going to receive it.
2:07:25You've done it every year.
2:07:26I think you can't do that this year.
2:07:29Yeah.
2:07:33You can do it.
2:07:35It'd be a good touch for them.
2:07:36I'd try.
2:07:36It's a good piece of work.
2:07:38I've done time and time again.
2:07:39It doesn't mean a thing.
2:07:40It never gets any play out of it.
2:07:43Milt Young was pushing very hard to see you to...
2:07:46Tell you what's wrong with your farm program, mainly to say you're wrong on the feed grain business, which Butts is opposed, and it's been defeated in Senate Agriculture.
2:07:56The young wants to appeal to you to achieve administratively what he couldn't get done legislatively.
2:08:03Butts, as I say, is opposed.
2:08:04Butts wants you to meet with him, but he's opposed to the thing.
2:08:08Butts' recommendation is, Daniel Whitaker,
2:08:14Young, Gerson, and Curtis come in, debate the thing with butts, and you listen, and that's it.
2:08:24Well, I'm not going to give you an hour.
2:08:25That's the problem.
2:08:26No, let's talk about a half an hour.
2:08:29If you had three guys, how the hell can I give it to you?
2:08:31That's one problem.
2:08:32The other problem is what you do about Jack Miller.
2:08:36Because it's pretty hard.
2:08:37He's the reigning member.
2:08:38It's pretty hard to have the other senators in and not have him.
2:08:44Why not?
2:08:48He's the one that's been asking.
2:08:49I'm sorry.
2:08:50He is going to pick one in a half hour.
2:08:53You see, whenever they add the number of senators, they're going to add the length of the meeting, right?
2:09:06Okay.
2:09:10Quines asked me to re-raise with you whether you would
2:09:13see joe dealey for a few minutes especially since we didn't include the news on that on the trip just because of his value to us in texas and uh sure uh he's the publisher yeah i mean yeah president dallas news he'd just like to talk with you about sure life in texas from you know sure fine we turned it down at one point
2:09:40You don't have to make a trip just to see him because, you know what I mean, but he's, you know, he's around the town.
2:09:48And you leave the time for the prayer.
2:09:49He's probably not even gonna move here.
2:09:57Let me tell you about the prayer.
2:09:59I feel this, that if anybody doesn't know it, I'll have to do it.
2:10:03I mean, I just, I don't have any desire, but...
2:10:10I feel the same way.
2:10:11I think you do.
2:10:11Yeah.
2:10:14I'll be a category.
2:10:14Okay.
2:10:20You talked about, at some point, doing a, the Congressman, you said to let it go and raise it later, question breakfast with all the... Oh, I'm excited to ask that now.
2:10:35You said the race began at All-China?
2:10:36No.
2:10:37You dropped it all together.
2:10:39I see nothing in the game, but... Do you?
2:10:43No, I think there's a lot to be lost by it.
2:10:45Yeah.
2:10:46They're just gonna cover up the budget and all that stuff.
2:10:49You don't need to disappoint me.
2:10:51I mean, we just aren't gonna do it now, but it is the end.
2:10:58There is a Citizens Advisory Council on the Status of Women.
2:11:02Oh, Christ.
2:11:05who would like to present to you their conference in 1971 report on issues concerning women.
2:11:08It would be a five-minute thing where a whole bunch of broads would come in and their head would hand you the thing.
2:11:20It's the Labor Department Council.
2:11:24No, I don't think that's... That's a small... You met with them in 69.
2:11:31I met with them.
2:11:34I don't think that the status quo and stuff and so forth, the more I think about it, I don't think that is what does the women's vote issue.
2:11:44The argument, they're meeting, let's say they're coming, I don't know, they will meet anyway, so they're from all over the country.
2:11:54And the argument would be that they'd be good spokeswomen for us.
2:12:02Actually, I, what do you lose by doing a, not meeting with them, but just letting them come in and hand you the report?
2:12:09Stand-up deal.
2:12:10Okay.
2:12:10Full of them.
2:12:12There's about 20.
2:12:20Yeah, there's about 20.
2:12:24All right.
2:12:24It's like the head of the National Council of Catholic Women and the Federation of Professional and Business Women.
2:12:31State legislator.
2:12:32Those are the companies.
2:12:37Sydney fellow, Hoover Institute.
2:12:42Okay, that's two of them.
2:12:43You can't just have them come in and stand up.
2:12:46I think you should.
2:12:49That's what they're after.
2:12:51They're here for meeting with other people anyway.
2:12:53Okay, they come in.
2:12:56They come in and hand you the thing and go out.
2:13:00Now what would it be?
2:13:01That's the problem.
2:13:02It has to be Thursday, I guess.
2:13:06Oh, that's right.
2:13:07It couldn't be Friday.
2:13:16I'll just say only if it can be on Friday.
2:13:23And then if it works out that we don't have any press conference, you can call them and check the sheets and everything.
2:13:31The president of Lebanon would like to make an official visit to Washington, and Rogers thinks he should invite him without setting a date.
2:13:37It's the first time the president of Lebanon has ever officially visited, and he's concerned about Soviet influence in the Arab world and the Great Headway, Israeli designs on Lebanese territory, context of post-US-Lebanese relations and all that.
2:13:55Jesus Christ.
2:13:59I thought we decided not to call it a visit.
2:14:02Henry says if this were a normal year, the visit would be a natural thing to do.
2:14:05The issue really is how much you feel the scheduled consent.
2:14:07There is a general advantage in the Middle East, and here the show of concern about the area of Soviet penetration.
2:14:16It isn't the normal year, and I just have to not want to take the time this year.
2:14:22You can't do it.
2:14:23They can indicate it at some time, but they know this is an election year.
2:14:27I say we'll try after next year, huh?
2:14:29Yeah, I'll try.
2:14:32Just taking them in for next year.
2:14:38The new Secretary General of CENTO wants to pay a courtesy call out next week.
2:14:42The organization has had it, and I don't think he can.
2:14:45They did the Ken Henry leaders.
2:14:48You know, that's not an organization now.
2:14:52Who's pushing Ken Henry?
2:14:57Bill.
2:15:01Let's see what this means.
2:15:02In view of speaking in Moscow, Chairman Sendo, concerned about the Soviet intentions, reason for keeping up signs of our support, also the fact that he has been a close assistant to the Prime Minister of Iran.
2:15:12So there's implicitly an Iranian aspect.
2:15:18Good God, we're going there.
2:15:20Yeah.
2:15:22They can't figure much about Iran.
2:15:28It has to be next week, which means we have to do it on your Tuesday or Friday.
2:16:11Leave it to us.
2:16:13Is he a darshan?
2:16:14You've got to get some of them to not endorse some of these.
2:16:19He's got kind of that, that one character.
2:16:20Now I suppose there's some Latin American country they want to ask about what I'm on.
2:16:30No, no, no more.
2:16:32That's the last of them.
2:16:32That's for sure.
2:16:36He's got a turd.
2:16:38I trust you don't have any interest in attending the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra concert?
2:17:03No.
2:17:04Can you send him on demand to report to the bank without wrong wishes?
2:17:07No.
2:17:07I'm not going to go there again.
2:17:08I don't like it.
2:17:09I really don't have a good feeling.
2:17:10I've been there.
2:17:14I've done that before.
2:17:15It seems to me that we're going to have to do something for the service.
2:17:24I'll ask you the next question.
2:17:31What's your feel on the care service?
2:17:33Well, I don't think you can skip Harry.
2:17:38Well, yes, I think you can, but... Well, then you will.
2:17:43Not forever.
2:20:03We could still go to California.
2:20:16Yeah, right about now.
2:20:16We can't go to Cuba soon, but I would be on board if they were to search.
2:20:19I don't think we should miss six weeks without going someplace.
2:20:27Oh, that's right.
2:20:28Well, that's about the right time.
2:20:31It's been three weeks.
2:20:31And I will have had a press conference or something.
2:20:33I don't know if it's still going on.
2:20:37But we'll play over here.
2:20:39And then the California thing.
2:20:40If we do the gridiron, my view of that would be if I do the gridiron, it's going to be a California trip.
2:20:46I mean, I don't think it's...
2:20:54And, you know, if you rush out there, then I just go over to the camera from here.
2:21:00Yeah.
2:21:00You know, it's only an hour.
2:21:10Yeah.
2:21:10Anything you're going to do, do gracefully.
2:21:14Right.
2:21:14But if any of you can't do it, I mean, simply do it if you want to.
2:21:24Well, what the hell, that's what I'm saying.
2:21:26I think I was the most inventive of what you used to talk about.
2:21:36All right, go ahead.
2:21:37Yes.
2:22:55One thing, we've talked about some doing trips and political stuff, but if you want to know, is that...
2:23:00It's very practical.
2:23:01No.
2:23:03Mayor Daley and Jack Brownlee both have mentioned to Ron Walker that sometime when the president's in Chicago, they would like to turn on a real Chicago election for him.
2:23:15And Ron was making the point that if we want to play off that, we ought to do it.
2:23:26Sometimes before too long.
2:23:27Well, for what reason?
2:23:29Because they want the daily life to be on the return end.
2:23:32It's a supportive president.
2:23:36If we wait much longer, it's going to be so political that he won't be able to do it.
2:23:44Now, you could do something that... What's he talking about?
2:23:51Just fireboats or what?
2:23:55They're talking about the whole shot coming off the giant and this and that.
2:24:03I personally don't think it's a good idea.
2:24:04I don't think it's tempting, though it is.
2:24:08It isn't a good idea because it won't last.
2:24:10It won't last and it puts you back into a parade thing.
2:24:17It just isn't.
2:24:21it's a temptation because there's a lot of buses
2:24:39What?
2:24:39He did?
2:24:40Yes.
2:24:40He had his first time this morning.
2:24:46Well, that's good.
2:24:47That was the main thruster.
2:24:48It was Lane's 459.
2:24:49She talked all the time about her main thruster.
2:24:52I wasn't going to check.
2:24:53She just got to do something.
2:24:55Have somebody answer her costume.
2:24:57I'm not going to answer her costume.
2:25:00I said,
2:25:08I should have kept some people.
2:25:10Who's got the track around?
2:25:12Any one that says any people are here, you want to talk to me about that?
2:25:19I just sent you a note from your group.
2:25:20I just got it.
2:25:21Check this, you know, and bring us up to date on where you are.
2:25:28He's down in that city, right?
2:25:33This is on the IT&T, and it's still going on.
2:25:38Well, the jury doesn't think for the day.
2:25:40What happened?
2:25:40I'm not up to, they would have.
2:25:42Why don't the public decide on the jury?
2:25:45No, we wanted to, Mr. President.
2:25:46What happened this morning?
2:25:49And what did happen?
2:25:50Did they go to executive session?
2:25:53I haven't heard.
2:25:54At 1 o'clock, they had not called for it.
2:25:56I was with Mitchell.
2:25:59And about five minutes ago, they were still going.
2:26:02We were trying to capture the drama of the revelation that Kennedy and Anderson had been conspiring.
2:26:13I didn't expect Kennedy to be conspiring with anybody.
2:26:23Yeah, but I think it gives us the argument, Mr. President, which we didn't necessarily have.
2:26:27It's clearly before just a political...
2:26:31And Bob Bill hit it just beautifully in his first hand.
2:26:34See, I'm sure he did.
2:26:35I'm sure he did.
2:26:35But I think the point he just made, the point last night, and Bob, this is the point that caught me, to me, is whatever we may have said,
2:26:45I told Tom that we should get somebody to get those people to walk out and stand in front of the television cameras and say it.
2:26:53He really thinks we can't do it very badly because of our...
2:26:56I say we, he's listening to White House.
2:26:58I'm not going to...
2:26:59It is then, a third of the men will be eager to suppress the White House.
2:27:02That's my case.
2:27:03I'm not going to be eager.
2:27:04He said that he made a lot of stupid points.
2:27:07But if I could own him, and I wish I could, I totally might.
2:27:11But the press corps that was invading his press corps is anti-us, which they are politically.
2:27:20The press corps in his case was so anti,
2:27:24I mean, they were, you remember, they were all for gifts, and half of them were goddamn your comments at that point.
2:27:31A lot of them were.
2:27:32A lot of them were.
2:27:34Really were.
2:27:35But I wrote through a goddamn thing, and, uh, and some of the old Carl Munn wasn't bad at it either.
2:27:41But for Christ's sake, the way we did the pre-walk, I mean, that was, it was a little tough.
2:27:46Boy, we call press conferences.
2:27:50We move into the thing.
2:27:51We move into the front of the cameras.
2:27:53We crank and span.
2:27:54We did every damn thing.
2:27:55We forced the press to cover it.
2:27:57We have an asshole out there that's doing the thing.
2:28:00Those guys are seeing that on demand.
2:28:03I don't swear backers in the world.
2:28:06I don't think that's fair.
2:28:08How the hell did we get it out then in our day?
2:28:14We didn't even have to have a pumpkin paper storage.
2:28:20When I found the typewriter, when I found the story of the rug, I took that stuff out so fast we had them jumping out of their skins.
2:28:30Let's see what happens today, because today is the first time.
2:28:37I understand.
2:28:38I'm sympathetic with them because, first of all, they're all old men.
2:28:44Second, they don't have a vicious son of a bitch as the Minority Counsel, which I have.
2:28:48He's not a non-lawyer.
2:28:49It's true.
2:28:49He's mean and vicious.
2:28:53And it takes a very young man to do this.
2:28:55You've got to be 32 or 33 about that.
2:28:56And when you're past that, you're not very good.
2:28:59You don't have the guts, you don't have the stamina, and so forth and so on.
2:29:04I mean, you can't tell me it doesn't make a difference.
2:29:06Because the problem is that you get guys that are trying to be responsible.
2:29:12You've got to be irresponsible.
2:29:13You've got to be up there.
2:29:15And then, of course, the net result is, I was cartooned, I was attacked, I was harpooned, and all the rest, and you were made vice president, then it's your turn to attack.
2:29:26Well, of course, that wasn't the case, too.
2:29:29Well, I knew, but did you see each other?
2:29:33Well, that's Connolly's point.
2:29:35Connolly and I are so much alike in that respect that it's just like two peas in a pod.
2:29:39And I said, John, I said, I agree, but what the hell are you even going to do?
2:29:44But I would have thought Planky would understand that game.
2:29:46Good God, he's been around a lot.
2:29:49But I think it's because of the age.
2:29:52I think they're all too goddamn old.
2:29:58I'd be surprised if you were.
2:30:01This whole business of, you know, they lose their sin, their sin.
2:30:08Do you want to get into this?
2:30:11Sure.
2:30:13In partial answer to that, our fellows until yesterday did not really get very excited.
2:30:17They were on the defensive.
2:30:18Really?
2:30:19They're beginning to get better.
2:30:20Today, I'm told that Bob Dole is very animated, that Barry Gold went over and grabbed the cameras while the committee session was on.
2:30:30Both Gurney and Cook, I know, had very good statements to come out and read before the cameras.
2:30:36And we've had this before, but we, honestly, as Bob said, it just wasn't quite... Well, we haven't had an issue.
2:30:41What we've been doing is practical.
2:30:43We've been defending it.
2:30:44We've been defending it.
2:30:45The other guys have to watch out.
2:30:50I would have made an issue of it, as I've said, just a second or so.
2:30:54First time it came up, all right, now what the hell did they talk about the contribution?
2:31:00I demand, I demand that the Democratic host committee in Miami issue the names and the amounts of all contributions to their committee.
2:31:08Was that done?
2:31:09No, it wasn't done because we didn't want to admit ours.
2:31:12I mean, we didn't know where we were on ours.
2:31:15Well, they all shared.
2:31:17I'm not so sure.
2:31:18What Dole did today was better, because he has a really ringing...
2:31:22I know, it's easy to second-guess it.
2:31:24I do think there's been a lack of imagination.
2:31:28Well, but not on this one.
2:31:30They're upset over this.
2:31:31Bob Dole said that after the press conference, all the Democratic senators came up to him in the lunchroom in the Senate and said, my God, Bob, what are you doing?
2:31:39What do you want?
2:31:39Well, he's called the public hearings to investigate the million-and-a-half-dollar forgiveness of death by telephone companies.
2:31:47uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh...
2:32:13I always thought that it was the local subsidiary.
2:32:19Sure.
2:32:20So that you have a situation where people... You have a situation where people are saying, holy smokes, 400,000 with the Republicans and here's a million and a half with the Democrats.
2:32:37What the hell?
2:32:39Now this... Bob called me just as he was getting on a plane for Florida, and he said, boy... No, he's all charged up because of the reaction.
2:32:51Apparently he did very well with it.
2:32:54And he's getting over that hurdle.
2:32:57That's a tough thing for a man.
2:33:02But he said...
2:33:06He said that they were all wringing their hands out of the... A lot of them came up and said, you know, what the hell are you doing?
2:33:14Why are you raising this now?
2:33:16Oh, my God.
2:33:17Why are they raising it?
2:33:18Well, I think we'll get...
2:33:20I told you when it came out.
2:33:22I don't think they'll write it.
2:33:24It's me on the wire.
2:33:25I don't think the papers will write it.
2:33:27I think they will.
2:33:29They have to.
2:33:30I bet it makes all the numbers tonight.
2:33:34That's a pretty good...
2:33:36Well, he issued a legal opinion with it, a three-page, pretty well-reasoned legal opinion.
2:33:44And Larry O'Brien immediately said that all... Oh, sure.
2:33:48Well, he said that he'll have a detailed answer later, but it's obvious that we're trying to divert attention from the major scandal that has affected the White House.
2:33:58So, I think they have.
2:34:02than they've made in all their 10 days of testimony.
2:34:06And why are we saying that?
2:34:07Why do we think?
2:34:08What's the charge?
2:34:10What's the link?
2:34:11The AT&T and IDP are doing this in order to get favors in the future.
2:34:15No.
2:34:16Well, what's the implication of those?
2:34:18That's what they know because they don't see otherwise, Chuck.
2:34:20They're not general cases.
2:34:22Well, in this sense, Mr. President, they are making a corporate campaign contribution for the
2:34:28failing to collect the million and a half, and that's because the Democrats control the Commerce Committee and they're a highly regulated industry.
2:34:34Oh, good.
2:34:35And, you know, that's pretty damn hard to say that, well, then, I've way let down.
2:34:39What about the, what about Marble Coach?
2:34:43That, to me, was a much better story today.
2:34:49Oh, yeah, Ted Kennedy.
2:34:51Well, I'm the one that, yeah, I call them to tell them, call the hearings on it immediately.
2:34:56Just say you want to go into executive session.
2:35:00Did they ask?
2:35:00Yes, that's what I'm not sure.
2:35:02Let me just get the wires down.
2:35:04I'm sure it's out here.
2:35:05Just call them.
2:35:06Call them and ask.
2:35:12I don't mean to jab you because I don't know what he's working on, but I must say, don't tell me for one minute that we've got many senators on there that are worried about that when it comes to seeing what's going on in Africa.
2:35:28We know.
2:35:29Even if they hadn't told, we would have turned it off because there's been a lot of concern about how much, where everything leads.
2:35:36Mitchell had that.
2:35:36I was with him for Eastland's agreement.
2:35:39Eastland's agreement.
2:35:40that he would close down the hearings and not hold hearings on Monday.
2:35:49Well, because they want to go into executive session and argue whether Anderson refusing yesterday to make his reporter's notes available to the committee, the whole committee,
2:36:01and then revealing by accident, really, that he made him available to Kennedy style.
2:36:06Who did he talk to?
2:36:07They caught him on the face.
2:36:08How did he do it?
2:36:10Cook isn't dumb.
2:36:10He's pretty.
2:36:11He's very.
2:36:12I mean, he sounds great, but I mean, he's a little like him now.
2:36:18No, he will.
2:36:19Cook kept pressing him.
2:36:20Where are your notes?
2:36:21Where are your notes?
2:36:23And he thought Cook knew something.
2:36:27And he said, well, I gave them last night to Mr. Blue for Senator Kennedy.
2:36:31And then it was just a gas all through the committee.
2:36:36And that's sort of what I had up there.
2:36:39It was a stun.
2:36:42That'll help a lot now.
2:36:43The other one will not.
2:36:45This one won't help.
2:36:45The other one will hurt it.
2:36:48But this one is more, I think now if we did it that way, if it had that effect, they'll say, well, Kennedy's got the nose.
2:36:56Now Kennedy should make it public.
2:36:58Well, that's the next demand.
2:36:59But the sneak time, you start losing Kennedy and Anderson.
2:37:03Yeah, well, interestingly enough...
2:37:05I gave this to Bob to give it to you, to tell Cook, to the man, that this is a congressional committee.
2:37:14They can take hearsay for the rules, which they've done now.
2:37:17They can also call anybody.
2:37:19They should call Anderson's secretary.
2:37:24Ask her about her association with Peter Beard.
2:37:27We had to go right down the line, and they'd be fine.
2:37:30They'd be like, if you get a secretary office, you scare them to death.
2:37:34Hell, I got the Cabinet Office, and I'm scared to death.
2:37:37I'll never forget them.
2:37:38I had my little son, Welch, down there.
2:37:40And I said, oh, thank you so much, Gary.
2:37:42He was proud of you.
2:37:44Tag him on the janitors.
2:37:46We had something through in the week to call local again.
2:37:52But I think now, in this episode, we can get them to do it, and especially because this weekend we may know a good bit more about her role in this, which will give us a real basis of a problem.
2:38:09There are two things, Mr. President, that we've been discussing that we could do immediately that would be very dramatic, and we've
2:38:17There's one thing we can do, and there's one thing we're hoping for.
2:38:20The one thing we could do is if he's willing to do this, wanted to call in the press this afternoon and say that I asked for these things, my nomination as Attorney General, I asked that they be re-unknown.
2:38:34Because I didn't want a cloud, I didn't want suspicion surrounding my nomination.
2:38:39I lay out every bit of testimony over five days, being Griswold,
2:38:44Repeat his history.
2:38:45McLaren.
2:38:45McLaren.
2:38:47Oh, he testified extremely well.
2:38:49Right.
2:38:49I saw it.
2:38:50I had to go to the 35th page of the New York Times each day to find him.
2:38:55Well, we get to this.
2:38:57And he said that however what has happened has gone way beyond that.
2:39:01A small but willful band of members of this committee have engaged in an outrageous witch hunt reminiscent of a McCarthy era.
2:39:09Shocking display of any one known smear.
2:39:12fishing expedition in which the press has been happily feeding on fourth-hand hearsay testimony to create doubt and suspicion.
2:39:20And I think you should say, if Bob doesn't agree with me, that I realize that the press conference could close in on the affirmation of the decision.
2:39:26No.
2:39:27But I refuse to sit idle and watch this travesty continue.
2:39:30The disclosure made that Senator Kennedy's been acting in shouts at the 15th.
2:39:33Yes, I will say on that, I will never.
2:39:41I'm going to mark it.
2:39:43I'm going to mark it.
2:39:44Okay.
2:39:45Okay.
2:39:46Okay.
2:39:46If any makes a point, the Democratic members of the committee are asked to give one of the most discredited and irresponsible reporters a motion.
2:39:59The reporter known for his unsubstantiated sensationalism in any way that it should be used.
2:40:05Then he recites again what Bridgewater had to say in Macquarie, and then he, in some depth, and then he says, notwithstanding all the testimony of evil, this committee, virtually without challenge, permitted fourth-hand hearsay evidence to be spread on record, and he picks up the New York Times.
2:40:23And he said, look at the lead of the New York Times, the headline of it this morning.
2:40:28It was a regular story.
2:40:30Remember I told you you had to turn?
2:40:32It wasn't even on the inside.
2:40:35It wasn't on the inside.
2:40:37It was mental denial.
2:40:38It wasn't even on the inside.
2:40:39He didn't use it at all?
2:40:40No.
2:40:42Well, we probably had an early edition.
2:40:44I'll be careful of that.
2:40:45Well, we don't know.
2:40:46He used the first edition.
2:40:47I don't think that's...
2:40:49Okay.
2:40:49Rowan, the ITP, says he's late to Nixon.
2:40:51He holds up the Patriot.
2:40:53There's no excuse even in the early edition, because Mitchell's denial was on the 7 o'clock news on television.
2:40:58So they had to admit it.
2:41:00Oh, it was there.
2:41:01The Times has got to be brought up.
2:41:04That's what he does.
2:41:06And then he says, now what is the role that is supposed to be laid to Nixon?
2:41:12It's a charge by Rick Hume, who says that he had told Hume in a conversation with Mitchell, who said that it had been offered at Sporting and Pearson.
2:41:22And he says that this, I merely use this to illustrate how badly misled the public can be when a committee of the United States Senate allows its committee forum to be used for the presentation of wild, grossly irresponsible hearsay churches to find their way into sensational newspaper headlines.
2:41:37It has all gone far enough.
2:41:38It's gone too far.
2:41:39I think that sensible, decent, honorable men serving the Senate should examine their conscience this weekend to see if the hearings at ISB resume.
2:41:47and are not indeed being used as form for people about that.
2:41:50One thought that's on my mind is, Kennedy was in the memories of the assassination.
2:41:57He is engaging in deliberate assassination, character assassination, potential character assassination.
2:42:08One of Scrooge's, you've got to get something to grab, then grab that.
2:42:12And here I'll talk about the assassination of their poor damn brothers, for sure.
2:42:15Let's have a little later.
2:42:18It's a big shot to take.
2:42:45The only other time we could do it is tomorrow morning.
2:42:48You could probably do it next week.
2:42:52Well, I wouldn't wait.
2:42:54Yeah, you could.
2:42:56No, you have to.
2:42:57It would be better to do it tomorrow morning and let the Kennedy story rise by itself.
2:43:02That will override the Kennedy story.
2:43:03This will override everything.
2:43:06That's a little variety of dole.
2:43:07That's a little variety of dole story, too.
2:43:09I'd do it tomorrow morning.
2:43:10Tomorrow morning.
2:43:10It gives you more time to think about it, too.
2:43:12See how the Kennedy story arrived.
2:43:13See how the dole story arrived.
2:43:15And tomorrow morning, he calls the Congress, and they think it's been heard.
2:43:19It's not.
2:43:19You won't get as much TV.
2:43:20It's, uh, I think it's been heard.
2:43:24All of a sudden, it's just kind of paper, though.
2:43:25What if you wake up the next morning?
2:43:28And you can't play off the New York Times.
2:43:33I want to play off that Times lead.
2:43:35That's so good.
2:43:37IT&T suit laid to Nixon.
2:43:40My God.
2:43:42From a drunken gal to an irresponsible reporter.
2:43:45It's just unbelievable.
2:43:48And this is what Dick can do a hell of a good job at.
2:43:52He's got to do it on camera.
2:43:56Well, what he should do is this, he should say, my confirmation curses, that's one thing I would recommend and so forth, for them to use my confirmation as a means, as a means to assassinate the President, to assassinate the character of the President of the United States.
2:44:16You see, that's his assassination character.
2:44:22We're going for a character assassination of the most despicable star.
2:44:27Assassination of the character of the President of the United States.
2:44:33The fourth entity.
2:44:34And we're a newspaper that claims to have all the news that's different to be used, to inspire, and to be allowed, and to allow itself to be used.
2:44:49You know, everybody has a really strong language.
2:44:52It's a pretty good reading.
2:44:58My wife is sitting there saying, why did the Nixon campaign accept the money?
2:45:11And I said, Joe, it didn't accept the money.
2:45:12She said, yes, it says right here.
2:45:15And then Washington Post said it too.
2:45:17I went through it all last night.
2:45:18And then this morning, she was reading from the Post-Editorate.
2:45:20She says, see, it did.
2:45:23Well, they've done a beautiful job of building in by innuendo because they say, they don't say we accepted the money, they say a contribution in support of the, to support the Republican Convention in San Diego.
2:45:40Technically correct.
2:45:41Which is technically correct, but the implication is it was a contribution to the Republican Convention.
2:45:46It wasn't a contribution to the campaign.
2:45:48Yeah.
2:45:49And that's the way people read it.
2:45:50That's what they're convinced is what's being talked about here.
2:45:57What does it do to plaintiffs?
2:46:01Well, the difficulty with that problem, that issue, is that if the hearings do not come around fairly quickly, a lot of people don't feel that it's going to get confirmed anyway.
2:46:17So what does he lose by this?
2:46:18He may, in fact, help himself get nominated, which was really his point, that this may actually improve his chances for being confirmed.
2:46:27If Warren Johnson is correct, who's been living with the committee all week, just there day in and hour in and hour out, he doesn't think Dick is going to make it.
2:46:37He thinks they're going to drag it out.
2:46:38They're going to prolong it as long as they can.
2:46:41Anderson may have some other papers that he will drop.
2:46:45And if they just won't report it on the committee, you'll just say, acting attorney general.
2:46:49So, I'm not sure that...
2:46:52How can they not report it on the committee?
2:46:54What, are they taking their long-range advisement or something?
2:46:58They just don't ever bring it up to a vote, or they don't have the votes to report out.
2:47:01On a public basis, I don't understand how they can do that.
2:47:03Just picking on what they've had nominations, they sit on for a year.
2:47:07Yeah, but not for a cabinet officer.
2:47:11Well, they could.
2:47:12Now, let me ask you about it.
2:47:14This is John's opinion.
2:47:14That won't be part of it.
2:47:16That's his opinion, yes, sir.
2:47:20And what about the Dita Beard business?
2:47:22What are our chances there?
2:47:2450-50.
2:47:24You think they're that good?
2:47:25I don't know what about it, Sylvia.
2:47:29I'm convinced that mine was a fraud.
2:47:33Yeah.
2:47:33And the more evidence that... Oh.
2:47:37Cook went on the cameras.
2:47:38John wants to catch you on a couple of things that are not essential but desirable if you have a few minutes.
2:47:45I'll see, John.
2:47:46I'll let him know.
2:47:48If I don't, I'll call him.
2:47:52I'll answer him, too.
2:47:53Senator Cook, Mario Cook, went before the cameras at 2.15 and said that there was a political conspiracy between Senator Kennedy and Jack Anderson.
2:48:00They are still going on.
2:48:01East 1-2 said he would call them out, but 1 o'clock hasn't.
2:48:05Senator Cooper...
2:48:07Senator Cook?
2:48:08No, no, it couldn't be right.
2:48:10It must be Cook.
2:48:11Senator Cook is waiting for the right time to call for executive session.
2:48:13We will know as soon as he does it.
2:48:15He has not done it yet.
2:48:17They should have done it at noon.
2:48:25Boy, Dole is really getting... Is that called Dole?
2:48:29Massive wire...
2:48:30I think Dole will get something on this.
2:48:39Let's look at it this way.
2:48:42That moves on the wires.
2:48:45So it goes to editors and to some degree in the country it goes to publishers who aren't like reporters.
2:48:55And you may have a chance, some of them have to be looking at this stuff as being exactly what it is and may welcome the attack on the other side.
2:49:07The question is what they do with it on TV tonight.
2:49:08I don't see how the networks can ignore this.
2:49:11Here's AT&T immediately answering it.
2:49:15What's their answer?
2:49:16They're simply saying that all transactions for the Democratic National Convention will be on a cash basis.
2:49:21They're avoiding the issue.
2:49:25We welcome scrutiny.
2:49:26Jack Anderson said that he thinks it should be investigated.
2:49:34The AT&T thing?
2:49:35Mm-hmm.
2:49:37That's a good one.
2:49:43That's a sound case.
2:49:44Oh, here it is.
2:49:45They've got to play this.
2:49:46Dole charges the credit extension for phone service to the Democratic National Convention of December finally coming on top of a $1.5 million unpaid bill from the Democrats' 1968 campaign violates two, quote, very clear provisions of federal law.
2:50:00They've got to do that.
2:50:02They haven't paid the bill, Chairman.
2:50:03They haven't paid the $196 million.
2:50:05Well, how the hell can't the company have the term off?
2:50:09I think they are in violation of the law.
2:50:11The extension of credit free with no interest for four years is a contribution.
2:50:15And Charlie McWhorter has been worried like hell about it.
2:50:17He thinks that AT&T is going to get in trouble.
2:50:20Should we have paid a lot of proceeds?
2:50:22Well, pretty well.
2:50:23We can.
2:50:23Pretty well.
2:50:25Should we have paid around $1,000?
2:50:30But it's...
2:50:33Yeah, this could, this could build it.
2:50:35So what about the Anderson story?
2:50:36You've got the Dole story and all that.
2:50:38It's just a diversion.
2:50:40Coming to the fundamental story, is it Cook-Anderson story?
2:50:45Do you think that would be a pretty good play?
2:50:51Well, if they do, Mr. President, what we suggested to them and say that we want to terminate these hearings and go into executive session because of the irregularities of Senator Kennedy and
2:51:03Jack Anderson, yes.
2:51:05Is Koch asking to see Kennedy's papers?
2:51:08Yes, he asked for them today.
2:51:10What did Kennedy say?
2:51:11Is he there?
2:51:15But he asked in the hearing room.
2:51:17As long as the papers had been turned over to a member of the committee, they should be made available immediately to all members.
2:51:22Good.
2:51:22That's a way to fight.
2:51:24But I don't know what Kennedy had said.
2:51:27You've got to turn it over.
2:51:29I would think so.
2:51:30All right.
2:51:31Kennedy's in it.
2:51:32I hope he doesn't.
2:51:35Then you've really got something going.
2:51:36Kennedy will take the papers and will not turn them over to another senator.
2:51:40The trouble is that the notes aren't worth it then, frankly.
2:51:43Have you seen them?
2:51:45No, but we know.
2:51:46He's been reading them.
2:51:48He's been reading them, and we know what was said in the three-hour interview, because we've had independent verification.
2:51:53That makes not that much sense.
2:51:56Well, why was she mad eventually?
2:52:00Oh, no, no.
2:52:02She was on the verge of losing her job at ITT, had been for about a year.
2:52:10Her boss, her immediate boss, wanted to get rid of her.
2:52:13The only reason she wasn't fired a year ago was that Hal Janine, president of ITT, told Bill Merriam, the head of the Washington office, don't fire her.
2:52:22She was staying on because Janine liked it and Ned Garrity liked it.
2:52:27And she was in constant... She's quite a warrior.
2:52:31Oh, thanks.
2:52:32I know.
2:52:33She was in constant battle.
2:52:35I think there's something there.
2:52:37Remember what was going on with Janine?
2:52:39Could be.
2:52:41I don't know why now Janine would have, I think, better taste.
2:52:44I know, but she had less taste than everybody.
2:52:47Well, I'm sure that she could find.
2:52:49Like, picking might be a little lean on that.
2:52:51I don't think you find many volunteers.
2:52:54But she...
2:52:57She was in a bitter fight, Mr. President, and she thought her job was going, and she wanted to get married.
2:53:08And what was going on, you see, all this time, all of the evidence indicates that she was trying to get even with Miriam.
2:53:22that this was a perfect vehicle, and she thought, I think, it would be a one-day Jack Anderson story.
2:53:27Miriam would get hurt, and she never could... She might not see, but it would get... She had to dance, and she knows that's the quickest way to lose her damn job she ever saw, and screw it up first.
2:53:38No, because... She's attacking comedy.
2:53:40No, no, no, because you read that memo, and what she's saying to Miriam is, too damn many people around here are talking about the deal, and I suggest everybody shut up and not talk about it, or you're going to upset a good thing.
2:53:52That's the thrust of her memory.
2:53:55And she thought by leaking that, she looked like she was trying to be a loyal ITT employee.
2:54:00Listen, Jermaine was bitched about the God man for you.
2:54:04He bitched about the Avis and all that.
2:54:07Of course.
2:54:08I thought they should have done a better deal.
2:54:13Because he thought he was a great contributor or something.
2:54:16Was he a contributor?
2:54:18He was?
2:54:18That's it.
2:54:20They tell me he's a pretty good guy.
2:54:22He's a hell of a guy.
2:54:23He really is.
2:54:23He's a very able guy.
2:54:26One of the real ballsy businessmen.
2:54:29One of the few cutsy businessmen.
2:54:33I must say, Griswold was good.
2:54:34Beautiful.
2:54:35He did a good job.
2:54:36Didn't get much play.
2:54:37We found out last night that Dita Beard has been sending out all kinds of peace overtures through her son to Janine simply to get assurance that
2:54:49Her job is safe, and so we have arranged it.
2:54:54She will be assured of that today.
2:54:57She could all grasp it when I testify.
2:54:59And come back and say that she made the damn memo.
2:55:04She'd do that?
2:55:05If she does that, we'll turn this thing around fast.
2:55:07Well, surely Kennedy would be a ticket in an Harrison picture.
2:55:13It would be another huge story.
2:55:15It's a hoax, Ben.
2:55:18Should I just do this because I was angry or frankly angry?
2:55:22Well, I've been under tremendous strain.
2:55:24I've been in the hands of a psychiatrist, and I just was upset with my boss, and I saw this as a way to get even with him, and I never realized all this would happen, and I regret it.
2:55:35I'm .
2:55:35And I'm talking to Dr. Watson.
2:55:39I'm going to say that he's .
2:55:49Then I'll get into the .
2:55:58And I've made substantial progress for looking for actualization and finding out when I finalize it.
2:56:04And I expect to finalize it.
2:56:07But don't expect an announcement next week.
2:56:09Right.
2:56:10And I'll leave a little... Bolton has done a lot of work soon to be done on that.
2:56:13On the, you know, drafting the legal side of this.
2:56:14The structure of these.
2:56:16He's amazing.
2:56:18Great.
2:56:18Excellent people.
2:56:26anybody that just put it this way, the president made it right through in his own hands, in terms of using the term, I think, yesterday, in principle, you know.
2:56:43Right.
2:56:43I've seen it regularly.
2:56:52Perfect.
2:56:53I have another meeting before we get done.
2:57:02Well, I think I'll give the word back to the legal.
2:57:18Is that now safe?
2:57:20the president will make a statement, or decide to make a statement.
2:57:25As far as what we do, these may or may not be the case.
2:57:32We shall break through anything you want to say.
2:57:35Okay, fine.
2:57:36I would like to give you, I won't commit you to the decision.
2:57:45What do you think of the way the New York Times handled us here this morning?
2:57:50Well, they didn't include Richardson in the city of Michigan, you see.
2:57:53Well, you see the way they handled the old president, Baldwin, and everything.
2:57:57He made some of these board meetings with the patients on the board.
2:58:02You might go back and read the dark time editorials at the time of the Communist administrations.
2:58:07Even when it was hearsay only once removed, they swilled that this was unfair, that we should have legal procedures not supported.
2:58:16Who can they do it?
2:58:17Now, you get it?
2:58:18Do you know if I agree?
2:58:18Mm-hmm.
2:58:21I tell them to just read some of the editorials back and see what else can happen to you.
2:58:26Okay.
2:58:27Well, Bill Gates wanted to talk to you.
2:58:30No, I guess not.
2:58:31Well, I guess not, sir.
2:58:32And it doesn't bother you if you read the article.
2:58:34There shouldn't be a double standard here.
2:58:36Just tell you to go back and read your editorials.
2:58:39Shouldn't there be the same rigid standards that the President followed in his investigations?
2:58:44Is the President of the United States entitled to the same editorial support and hearsay that a communist is?
2:58:53Good luck.
2:58:55Well, do this bother you this morning?
2:59:04Yes, sir.
2:59:09I can't believe it, but I don't know I may be absolutely wrong to turn around these.
2:59:17That would be interesting.
2:59:19Well, if any of these other things turn around, if we exploit our brakes, and if we get the brakes... Well, you understand the attack on the Democratic Nation conveyed at AT&T will not turn around.
2:59:31No, no, no.
2:59:31The only thing that will turn around is something that speaks to this case, sir.
2:59:36So maybe... Well, the bottom line is...
2:59:38So Kennedy may be afraid... Yeah, that's a part of it.
2:59:42That's a little... Well, I worked on it the night last night with the Germans, and I am absolutely convinced that I poured them over the coals that that memo was never delivered to anyone in IT.
2:59:58So, who commissioned that?
3:00:00the IT&T people that I met with last night.
3:00:02They're lawyers.
3:00:03And they said they didn't get a vote about that?
3:00:06They'll swear.
3:00:07They say they'll take a under oath or lie detector test or anything else if they've never seen that memo.
3:00:12The gal who typed it, Dita Beard's secretary, said she remembers typing a memo about that time that dealt with the Republican convention, but there was nothing in there about the president or the attorney general or anything on the deal.
3:00:29June 25th of last year.
3:00:32Oh, sure.
3:00:33What I think she did was she took a memo that she had written that was rather innocuous about the convention.
3:00:39And jazzed it up last month.
3:00:43Sure.
3:00:43And your name and Bob Goldman's name.
3:00:46Yep.
3:00:48But how are you supposed to know?
3:00:50No, you see, that's why...
3:00:51It's the same thing you did.
3:00:52Well, I was in it.
3:00:53I was in it.
3:00:54I'm the general.
3:00:54Tell them to get the goddamn... No, no.
3:00:57Okay, so that's not what she's saying.
3:00:59She's not claiming that, oh, our names, your name, Mitchell's, mine, someone else.
3:01:08There are about four or five names.
3:01:12It just says that we're aware of the contribution.
3:01:16Well, I don't know.
3:01:18Which is not true, because you are aware of the country.
3:01:19Well, I don't believe that.
3:01:20I think I was.
3:01:21Well, obviously you was.
3:01:22Because this was a month before San Diego was selected as the site.
3:01:25Yeah.
3:01:26But I think what happened is, first of all, her former secretary is now in Canada.
3:01:32We had interviewed, and we got that back last night.
3:01:36But she remembers typing around, but never remembers anything about political names.
3:01:40I'll throw it over to her.
3:01:42I'm going to be active about it.
3:01:43I'm sure I'm secure.
3:01:45Well, there's a lot of other inconsistencies that show up in the pattern.
3:01:51Her memory is just about what she wants to do.
3:01:53Need a beer?
3:01:55Secondaries.
3:01:57No.
3:01:57Do you think she's going to?
3:01:58Yes, sir.
3:02:07Well, what she said to the investigator, had there been a statement in there like that involving the president, I would have remembered that.
3:02:19And on top of which, the person who Dita said she handed it to that day wasn't in the office on that day.
3:02:28We've established that categorically.
3:02:33Not physically in Washington.
3:02:36She claimed she walked in and handed it to him.
3:02:38She described the fact that he was standing at the window, looking out the window, and she said...
3:02:42In her interview with Hume.
3:02:43In her interview with Hume and in an interview with the IGT.
3:02:47And then at the end... She said the same thing.
3:02:50Yeah, but then in the end, the three days with the IGT lawyers, when they finally said to her, but Mr. Marion wasn't there that day, she said, well, I gave it to his secretary.
3:02:59It was a complete switch.
3:03:02Then they said his secretary wasn't there.
3:03:03And she said, well, maybe I just left it on his desk.
3:03:06And, of course, the really curious thing is that the memo that Jack Anderson turned over to the committee was the original.
3:03:16Anderson has the original.
3:03:18He doesn't have.
3:03:21FBI has the original.
3:03:25That's curious.
3:03:26Well, he obviously married us 20 days.
3:03:28If I got that kind of a memo, I would have destroyed it or put it in my safe.
3:03:32I've been in this town 20 years, and I know better than to leave that around.
3:03:36And he went into his safe and discovered all sorts of other sensitive stuff that if Anderson had gone into his safe, he would have taken ahead of this memo.
3:03:45And so it's just too much that makes me really question it.
3:03:48Politics, the way the agents play, are just, I think, are going to do the best they can to help.
3:04:00Well, I think the one...
3:04:02The one ace, Gurney's doing a great job, too.
3:04:04Is he?
3:04:05Yes, sir.
3:04:06just to pay them to cook.
3:04:08Those two.
3:04:09And Russ is doing everything he can.
3:04:12Oh, but he's trying.
3:04:15Oh, he's trying.
3:04:16He wants to be helpful, you know, do the right thing.
3:04:19He made one of his statements, like, the Supreme Court needs a mediocre judge.
3:04:24He did another one yesterday.
3:04:26Everybody might be trying to open it.
3:04:29That's not so bad.
3:04:30It's true.
3:04:39Well, well, well.
3:04:39Well, what we need is either a very sharp, blistering counterattack by someone like Kleinbeek.
3:04:45Kleinbeek's the only one who can do it.
3:04:48Or, if we get a break on the Dear, Dear Testament, and if she lives... Should Mitchell's advice be sought on Kleinbeek's counterattack?
3:04:55I'd rather think you can't let it go without asking Mitchell.
3:05:05Which means, Marty,
3:05:07No, no, get Dick Porter.
3:05:08That's right, get Dick Porter.
3:05:13When I was over there, uh... Marty's got him bottled up.
3:05:17Mitchell.
3:05:19Mitchell kept telling Marty to shut up when I was talking, but he just keeps rattling along.
3:05:23And then Marty missed.
3:05:25We thought we got him out of this, but we can't.
3:05:27He's gone dog-to-dog all the way out of his hands.
3:05:35Where John's at, or something, though.
3:05:37If you get John over here, don't go over there.
3:05:44You know, Kleindies was, like, in there, like this.
3:05:48Kleindies, Kleindies?
3:05:49Yes.
3:05:49You said Kleindies.
3:05:50Are you ready to do it?
3:05:51Kleindies, uh, well, I'm really going to talk to Kleindies this time.
3:05:54Well, I'll tell you.
3:05:55Let Kleindies wear permission.
3:05:57Hmm.
3:06:00Marty is the one that's on the kick of having the Vice President go out and attack the media, but that doesn't do it.
3:06:07No, no, no.
3:06:08I talked to Conley about that.
3:06:11He thought that way over escalated.
3:06:14It's escalated, of course, to have the Vice President get into an immediate attack on this.
3:06:18He doesn't have any justification.
3:06:20The guy that's being wrong should stand up for himself.
3:06:24My confirmation is one thing, but I asked for these hearings to be reopened, and now I see that what they've turned into is a character assassination.
3:06:33He says he's got a real...
3:06:35They know what hearsay means.
3:06:36They know that that isn't very reliable.
3:06:51And if it's here, say...
3:06:52They know what a 4-3 move means.
3:06:53That's why you're saying 4-3.
3:06:55I kind of like it.
3:06:59Do you think this assassination is good, Bob?
3:07:01Sure.
3:07:04Stick it to a small but willful band of members of the committee in a woodshop.
3:07:11I wouldn't take out if I could suggest McCartney or...
3:07:14I don't know why.
3:07:16Because he probably wouldn't believe it, McCartney or...
3:07:20No, really, and there's a hell of a lot of people that did.
3:07:24I don't think there's any need.
3:07:27I mean, I didn't, but I just think it tends to be confusing.
3:07:34I debated putting that in when I wrote it.
3:07:36I'm not so sure.
3:07:38Maybe it only works with old books, but there are a hell of a lot of people that this is reminiscent of the McCarthy era, the McCarthy-Walsh hearings.
3:07:48Yeah, when Welch just, you know, cried out in agony by me, you know, I'm like, God, what are you doing?
3:07:56Okay, it's a little different than the other part, the good part of McCarthy.
3:08:06It's been bad.
3:08:07I needed to put it in because that was a great clip of it.
3:08:09It was so bad.
3:08:09I had to go all the way.
3:08:11Could we put it in?
3:08:12We got to take it out.
3:08:13Take it out?
3:08:22See, this gives us another opportunity to bring Rizzo's stuff back in, which is the best we've had all week.
3:08:29And McLaren.
3:08:30You know, we did get a break this week, strangely enough.
3:08:34We had the goddamn thing on the lead every night we had to get to that airplane.
3:08:37Yeah.
3:08:39I got out for one night a day and half out for the second day.
3:08:41Right.
3:08:43And as a lead.
3:08:47They're going to start getting a little bit tired of me, which is...
3:08:53You can't joke it quite as long as I think they're trying to.
3:09:02The Democrats said they want 10 more, 11 more witnesses, which would just carry the name.
3:09:09Got names a couple of weeks.
3:09:10Where are they going to call?
3:09:15Well, they've asked for only IG&T people who are involved.
3:09:22We can ask the chairman to address this as Kennedy at heart.
3:09:29Of course, I want Dean of Beards and Senator Lee.
3:09:34Well, we think we do.
3:09:36Thank you.
3:09:38Thank you very much.
3:09:40What about the Russians?
3:09:44No, I think that kind of witness might put them on penalty if that discredit is called, and she will not be a good witness for that.
3:09:54You think?
3:09:55For the Democrat?
3:09:55Yeah.
3:09:56Not if she says what we think she may say.
3:09:58Even so, she won't be, because she isn't going to come through.
3:10:02She's going to fall apart.
3:10:05Fall apart.
3:10:06If she comes back and says, I did this, and I shouldn't have done this.
3:10:10It was a mistake.
3:10:13I ask forgiveness, and then they try to pour in on her, and she goes to pieces.
3:10:17They've had it at that point.
3:10:23Be quick about it.
3:10:25Very.
3:10:30Don't do that.
3:10:31If she's trying to go the right way, they still should get the damn counsel.
3:10:36They're there now.
3:10:38Have any counsel?
3:10:40No, no, no, no.
3:10:40I don't have any counsel.
3:10:41I've got to get out and get her to sleep.
3:10:44Over the weekend, before she died.
3:10:52Well, she's been waiting very long.
3:10:54She's been rotating.
3:10:55She's got blood clots and partial occlusion.
3:10:57Who would that be?
3:11:05Right now, that would be very bad.
3:11:07Screwed us up.
3:11:08Yeah.
3:11:09And she would, she would have done all the damage without us having the opportunity to come back and describe her story.
3:11:15Yeah.
3:11:15Let me imagine there as if her son would come out and say, well, mother told me.
3:11:25Just before she died that she didn't, she couldn't let this rest on her soul.
3:11:30For her daughters, I'm not able to vote with the National Committee.
3:11:33Is she?
3:11:34Thank you.
3:11:36For Christ's sake.
3:11:37Well, that's all right.
3:11:37That's expected.
3:11:39The weather in here is unbelievable.
3:11:41Hal, she worked with the Nixon campaign.
3:11:43Sure.
3:11:44Sixty.
3:11:45Of course, not for me.
3:11:53They also want Bob Wilson to testify.
3:11:55It's been a disaster.
3:11:57Marty and his husband have been meeting after meeting with him.
3:12:01He is a disaster.
3:12:03Marty doesn't want Bob Wilson to testify.
3:12:05No, the committee does.
3:12:09And he says Bob couldn't handle it.
3:12:12We haven't, well, none of us think Wilson could handle it.
3:12:15I don't define it as crazy.
3:12:18But as he repeats everything that Wilson said, it just, God, it turned into an awful mess.
3:12:24It's okay, we can run it.
3:12:31We can answer it.
3:12:32Yeah, that's the one that bothers me most of any of it.
3:12:37Because I just don't understand what they said to him.
3:12:43Did they ask for him?
3:12:44Not yet.
3:12:44Not officially.
3:12:45Not officially, but his name has come up a couple of times and they've asked questions about him and it's getting, it just gets awful warm.
3:12:51I can't understand why they haven't asked for him because they know he was involved in all that fundraising.
3:12:56Unless he said the things that they said.
3:12:58I would think they'd be delighted to get him up there and start talking about that.
3:13:07He's the biggest, he's the biggest, uh, danger we had.
3:13:09Yeah, because they probably contributed to something, didn't they?
3:13:12Yeah.
3:13:12They did.
3:13:12They sure did.
3:13:14True, yeah.
3:13:16That was a territory.
3:13:17That was a territory.
3:13:23I'm not so sure, but I guess it was.
3:13:32Yeah, it was.
3:13:33Yeah.
3:13:35Well, we'd be so sure of this.
3:13:36Well, Stanley wasn't involved, except for what a combat was.
3:13:43But Gleason worked for Stanley's.
3:13:45Gleason could grow a combat kit, which is another...
3:13:54Compared to Janine?
3:13:55It was a lot of cash.
3:13:57So it wasn't ever ascribed to any individual.
3:14:01Don't know.
3:14:02Oh, sure.
3:14:03But we will.
3:14:04We will.
3:14:04But Gleason... What Gleason will do.
3:14:06I don't...
3:14:09I don't think he'll get into that.
3:14:11I know where the money came from.
3:14:13And I suspect if I do, Gleason will.
3:14:19Gleason does know.
3:14:19Gleason has no obligation to rent.
3:14:21I mean, he has no obligation to report any cash contributions.
3:14:27How...
3:14:31He just doesn't know.
3:14:32Well, we're trying to get him out of the city, but now he doesn't want to go.
3:14:36Right.
3:14:39Which is what Bob and I are talking about.
3:14:40He's on vacation.
3:14:45Right.
3:14:51Well, it would have because he had a long scheduled vacation starting two days ago.
3:14:58So it would have been
3:15:01Very logical for you to say hello.
3:15:03I had to get it back and get one in.
3:16:25It's got to happen until it's ended.
3:16:27But of course, they've got a pretty good accomplice in Anderson.
3:16:33But also, you can kill people by a gunshot.
3:16:36You never get them.
3:16:39Well, we may have Mike Pritchard, which is another thing that we've been doing.
3:16:43Some of the testimony yesterday seemed pretty well.
3:16:45That's why they told me to keep Anderson going today.
3:16:52But we had the vials that
3:16:55The FBI gave us that they said if you pursue these questions, and if he answers in a certain way, we'll provide you with more information.
3:17:05Did he ask the questions?
3:17:07Yes, sir.
3:17:08Yesterday, he got right up to the line, just very, very close.
3:17:13And we had a whole second set prepared to go today.
3:17:16Now, if we can get him on perjury before the committee, that's another kind of a thing to turn this around.
3:17:21What kind of questions, sir?
3:17:24Well, for example, has he ever paid anybody for an article or for information?
3:17:31He said, no, except other reporters I will share expenses with.
3:17:36The way in which he said it, John Dean thought he left himself just an edge.
3:17:43They bore it on him as hard as they could.
3:17:49It may be there.
3:17:50We've got to go back and study the transcript and see if
3:17:55if indeed we can nail him on, on perjury.
3:18:00He's damn smart, the way he plays him.
3:18:03He's gonna have a tough time.
3:18:06He knows exactly how to get, say what he wants to say without being actionable.
3:18:11Yeah, he leaves the committee room at just the time when he wants to go out and say something to the reporters.
3:18:18The comparison between the way he operates and our game is just pitiful.
3:18:22He went out there at 12 o'clock today and just spilled it all off the verticals.
3:18:27On his way to the bench, him backing.
3:18:30Made his points.
3:18:32We have to drag our fellows up.
3:18:33Although, Goal Order went over today and apparently raised his helmet.
3:18:39But coverage tonight may be better.
3:18:52They have to attack this way.
3:18:54They don't have to attack this way.
3:18:59We don't want to compete on the issues.
3:19:03Jesus, they haven't talked on an issue in months.
3:19:06This is what... That's why they all jumped on us.
3:19:11There'll be more of them.
3:19:22to prove this one a hoax, because I think it would discourage a lot of them on others, Anderson in particular, because he'll be just after us all year long.
3:19:34And he's achieved what Drew Pearson never achieved.
3:19:38Anderson, he's become a viable public personality.
3:19:42Pearson never was, he just did it.
3:19:45Not to this degree, but that way.
3:19:47He has been in recent years, but he was a person when he was on the lecture circuit and the radio every night.
3:19:54Yeah, I guess it's television.
3:19:56He was a person whose predictions of things to come, I predict, number one, will not be realized.
3:20:05The weekly long chat.
3:20:12Remember that?
3:20:13That's it.
3:20:19His prediction was about 80% false, but he'd always catalog the ones that had been correct next week.
3:20:26Skip the others.
3:20:31As predicted last week.
3:20:35Well, Anderson is not something exactly like Pearson in terms of the use of any London.
3:20:43He did it masterfully yesterday.
3:20:48He made the charge.
3:21:05He backed off of it, whether he should say that or said something else.
3:21:14Well, then they asked him, he said, are you convinced she was telling the truth?
3:21:17And he said, no, I think she was lying part of the time.
3:21:19But what she said was news.
3:21:20And it's completely covered.
3:21:26He isn't even endorsing her testimony.
3:21:30Well, but then he made that, he made that masterful stroke of the innuendo when he said that, all I can say is that one of the biggest, and he went and answered a rustic who was
3:21:43really pressing him hard.
3:21:45He said, all I can say is that one of the biggest antitrust suits was being settled at the same time the corporation was negotiating a contribution to the convention.
3:21:52That's a fact.
3:21:54You can't argue with that.
3:21:55And he said, something is wrong there.
3:21:58Something is wrong.
3:21:59And everyone in the Senate can see it.
3:22:01If they can't, something must be wrong with their eyesight.
3:22:09Sure.
3:22:09By association.
3:22:10Yeah.
3:22:15Well, we'll move on to finding the story.
3:22:28No, well, it scoops ourselves.
3:22:29We may come out of this.
3:22:36Yeah, I may know that, but I...
3:22:50Apparently John says he does have some guidance on the busing thingy here.
3:22:54Monday night, too.
3:22:55Did you get the President of the Harris Board with him?
3:23:06Yeah, he did.
3:23:07Unbelievable.
3:23:10That was a strategy.
3:23:10Yeah.
3:23:11I think you're absolutely right in suggesting I use him.
3:23:14I think he should use the trial agents.
3:23:17Oh, he uses Trout Heats.
3:23:18Trout Heats and the China approval.
3:23:20Yeah, he's going to have trouble not using the Heats.
3:23:23He's left it out before.
3:23:24Well, unless I can have, I may have some just at Trout Heats.
3:23:28As a matter of fact, you might ironically remind him that he has always followed the pattern of leaving out our equipment.
3:23:32No, he hasn't.
3:23:34In the past.
3:23:36Oh, you mean before?
3:23:37Before you started talking.
3:23:38Oh, yeah.
3:23:39He's left, all he's done now is leave out the bad ones.
3:23:42Oh, yeah.
3:23:44Before that, he used to leave out the good or bad.
3:23:46You didn't talk to him.
3:23:48I was over with the investigators.
3:23:50He called and left a message at my gale, and he was leaving for London.
3:23:53Interesting thing.
3:23:55You mentioned that Gallup showed an increase, but not a significant one.
3:24:01Well, it was significant.
3:24:03Because basically, you have to take the fact that he showed a four-point drop in the physical and a four-point increase in three-point increases in the seven.
3:24:10Of course, you know, the...
3:24:13The Harris Fault started earlier than Gallup.
3:24:17By five days.
3:24:20The real flush of China.
3:24:23It started on Monday the day you were... Well, it started on Tuesday morning.
3:24:27It started actually Monday.
3:24:28I'm not so sure that IT&G is...
3:31:10Is that just heavy?
3:31:14He must recognize it.
3:31:15Oh, just a second.
3:31:19And he did, I mean, our old story overrides the Kennedy-Anderson story.
3:31:22It's an old story.
3:31:24It looks pretty good at the start.
3:31:26Because it's got a play on it.
3:31:28Yeah.
3:31:28Good.
3:31:29Frankly, it's not Kennedy.
3:31:31Well, the more important one is the Kennedy-Anderson story, but I guess that isn't right.
3:31:37Yeah, but that's related.
3:31:38No, it's a TV.
3:31:39No, it's a star.
3:31:39It's 203, right?
3:31:40Yeah, but it'll be on TV.
3:31:41Because Kirkland did it at 215.
3:31:42All right.
3:31:44Thank you.
3:31:49That is your recommendation as to how to use it, Tom.
3:31:56Well, I think you could best use it working on a statement.
3:32:03rather than getting all the mesh in the log, what do you do?
3:32:06Is it all understaffed?
3:32:08Yes, sir.
3:32:08Okay, well, I...
3:32:09It's about a minute and a half.
3:32:12Oh, I'll let it go.
3:32:16We'll walk it through.
3:32:17I'll talk to you.
3:32:21You won't want any changes.
3:32:23No, I'm not.
3:32:25There's a draft statement.
3:32:27We'll have another draft for you during the weekend, and it will send on...
3:32:32You can either look at the first draft if you want to, or...
3:32:35I think I should look at the second.
3:32:38I think so, too.
3:32:38Because we've made substantial changes.
3:32:40Yeah, I'll start nitpicking things that we haven't done.
3:32:42Yeah, right.
3:32:43When do you think we're going to have it?
3:32:44Well, I'll find out.
3:32:45We'll get it up to you just the first minute we can.
3:32:49There was a fine group ahead.
3:32:51The first grade got it.
3:32:52The first grade had to spend more time with it.
3:32:54It wasn't in use.
3:32:56No, I don't think it was needed.
3:32:57They're used.
3:32:57I've talked to Constitution lawyers.
3:32:59With every choice in there, you've got a sort of a hard line and a soft line that you can take.
3:33:04And every one of those... No, that's not what you're talking about.
3:33:24I think we must make, and I give Price those instructions, that it must be made, it must be preserved as an ultimate fallback.
3:33:28It's an exact sort of fallback.
3:33:29Well, that's it.
3:33:29The Tankards and the Chicago Boys would have split off at that point, and so it just well wasn't brought up.
3:33:48But I don't know what he's doing back there.
3:33:53Well, he's sort of the opposite side of the Bickle coin.
3:33:56Ian Bickle keeps the constitutional law courses up there, and one's hard line, one's soft line.
3:34:02Yeah, damn good guy.
3:34:04And smarter than Wick.
3:34:07Yeah, he is.
3:34:09He's very impressive.
3:34:11And he's a riverboat gambler.
3:34:14You know, he will take a chance.
3:34:21Anyway, you may want to glance at that option paper and get a feel for these choices.
3:34:31And I'm assuming that you're going to go hardline.
3:34:35where you've got a choice, but I may be wrong on some of that.
3:34:40And after you've taken a look at it, I'm going to say, I think you should, because I'm looking for a lot of clear signals.
3:34:50And you can come out and say, I'm for a piece of legislation so that you can't bust elementary schools.
3:34:58That's a big signal.
3:35:00There wasn't at all there in the others.
3:35:03Then some.
3:35:04And that saves the constitutionality.
3:35:07Well, then of course, if you agree, you move the book.
3:35:10Well, anyway, there's that.
3:35:12And I'll be on the other end of the phone if they can't line up.
3:35:15Nope, no problem.
3:35:16H.R.
3:35:161 has taken a funny bounce.
3:35:19And I need your cooperation on something.
3:35:24We're playing a game here.
3:35:28I'm going to need you to write a letter, which we'll draw, to Wally Bennett.
3:35:32Do tell him.
3:35:32Ask him.
3:35:33Tell him I'm going to be ten minutes late and then I can cut you or enter the city so you can't leave.
3:35:44That would be about 50.
3:35:59Do you have one of those?
3:36:00Is John Irving, is he dead?
3:36:27All right, I've got it.
3:36:27Press the button.
3:36:28I'm going to do something easy.
3:36:28I'm going to press the second ramp as early this weekend as possible.
3:36:30If I need it, what we want to do is take that first ramp.
3:36:31Yeah, well, you can do that.
3:36:31You can do that.
3:36:44The letter is going to say, Dear Wally, there's some misunderstandings about where I am.
3:37:02There's a lot of talk about work there.
3:37:06I'm for H.I.O.I.
3:37:09The reason that you are going to do that is that I think we're going to split the Senate into three immovable parts by doing that.
3:37:22And nothing will happen.
3:37:26and the Senate Finance Committee, except for Bennett, will be hard on the right.
3:37:31Ribicoff, Labor, and Legal Women voters will be hard on the left, and Bennett and maybe... That's right.
3:37:42Better than maybe 30 others will be sunk in the middle.
3:37:49Well, maybe he doesn't want me to do this.
3:38:25Is that the one that was on the other end of the deck?
3:38:29No, I don't know.
3:38:29The one that was there that made the first hole in the deck.
3:38:33Well, let's see.
3:38:33I need to have that.
3:38:34Let me get it.
3:38:35I was just retrieving one of these because I was so worried about it.
3:38:39And there's the other one.
3:38:47Okay.
3:38:50But this is what I mean, that's the algorithm, not Pinterest.
3:38:52You can take that in the background if you want, because it may be, let's see, you know, this is a lot of stuff.
3:39:00You can only read so much in this body, all right?
3:39:03That's good.
3:39:04That's the way we go.
3:39:05It's quite as many things as it could be.
3:39:09And like I said, that's just a thank you note from the bottom of my heart for the gifts we've done.
3:39:15Yes, sir.
3:39:16We've shot a hand, especially by my wife.
3:39:19Let me ask you a question.
3:39:22All right, fine.
3:39:23By looking at the tree group of hands.
3:39:26What happens then is that the center probably doesn't go anywhere.
3:39:30It probably just lies dead centered.
3:39:32And there'll be lots of pressure all over the place, newspaper, citizen group, all kinds of pressure.
3:39:40It'll tie the Senate into a knot, and they'll probably table it.
3:39:43They'll probably lay it aside.
3:39:46All right.
3:39:46I'll do that.
3:39:47You sign, I'll send a letter.
3:39:48We'll get it ready.
3:39:49Okay.
3:39:50Put it on the sign-up paper.
3:39:51Now, having done that, what does that do to Social Security, though?
3:39:55Well, they'll have to find another vehicle for it.
3:39:59Yeah.
3:40:01And they'd be hard-pressed to find that Long's maneuver then may be to split off the Social Security and the blind and the other provisions out of the welfare reform.
3:40:14But he'll have to do an awful lot of backing and filling to get that result.
3:40:19And he'll be fought.
3:40:20And it may be that we stave off this Social Security 20% business through this device.
3:40:28Well, I can hear your presentation, but...
3:40:31Well, we may be able to afford to be for it.
3:40:35It's a little early to say precisely what's going to happen in the Senate right now.
3:40:39See, what's happening is the Senate financially has come up with their own welfare reform bill, and it's a travesty.
3:40:46That's why I said in the meeting there that I'd probably have to veto the bill.
3:40:49Right.
3:40:50And you would if this thing came down.
3:40:52It'll be kind of a mongoloid thing.
3:40:55And as soon as it surfaces, and we may leak it,
3:41:00As soon as it surfaces, it's going to be subject to the most intense attack from the liberal press, undoubtedly.
3:41:09Then we don't know what will happen in the committee, but they'll probably report it out anyway, just out of wonder hands.
3:41:19And it'll get out on the floor, and then it'll – there was a meeting last night with Benjamin of the union people and the left-wingers and the legal and the voters and a lot of public interest groups.
3:41:31And they said, we can't support H.R.
3:41:321.
3:41:32It's too conservative.
3:41:35All the time we've got Long and the others saying we're going to filibuster against H.R.
3:41:391 and deliver.
3:41:41And so we're going to try and split Bennett off from the Senate Finance Committee and put him at the head of an H.R.
3:41:471 group in the Senate.
3:41:52Tie the thing up.
3:41:54That's a solid position anyway.
3:41:57H.R.
3:41:571 has passed the House.
3:41:59It's the right position.
3:42:01It's where we've been to appearances.
3:42:04Can I ask you this?
3:42:10Looking back on our conversation about the old folks and so forth, should we go into the numbers game and so forth?
3:42:25Social Security.
3:42:26Yeah.
3:42:27The minute you get a little bit pregnant, you're gone.
3:42:30You're over the edge.
3:42:32If you come back and say, yeah, if you come back and say, I'm not for 20%, but I'm for jiggering the base and changing the rate a little bit and spreading it out over more years, then all you're doing, you're not talking about whether you're talking about how much.
3:42:47What do...
3:42:50George is still against it.
3:42:52George and Herb and John Connolly are all down hard against it.
3:42:57Well, Connolly said he'd call me back, but he said, is my head changed?
3:43:03Well, Arthur is loyal, true blue, and he's going out like mutts, and he's going to fight for us.
3:43:10Either way.
3:43:17Yeah, we've got some other odds and ends of things that we can do.
3:43:23And we've got about a $20 million gimmick that we can work in.
3:43:27Once you start, once you move off your 5%...
3:43:36I personally, I personally know that once you start, it's just a question, well, they won't end at 20, they'll get 30.
3:43:43I'm afraid you're right.
3:43:44And Long, as much as said so to our guys, when he was talking...
3:43:48I'm going to be a better at building than I am at preempting this.
3:43:50See, Long wants to do... Mills passes to Long at this point.
3:43:55He thinks he's already preempted.
3:43:58What I mean is, Long is going to take Mills and say... Oh, oh, oh, sure.
3:44:05Long range prescription for drugs.
3:44:07And they didn't.
3:44:08I was surprised.
3:44:09Is there a possibility that that could be the alternative?
3:44:15Well, it's sure a heck of a lot cheaper.
3:44:17Well, that's what I mean.
3:44:17It's too good in instead of 60.
3:44:22But I don't know if that will buy them off.
3:44:25I would really rather work with this Administration for the Aged and with a couple of $20 million gimmicks that are disassociated from those other two and not get you into the big money.
3:44:38Try to put together a message to stay away.
3:44:46I would.
3:44:49I don't believe it, you understand?
3:44:52But I'm just trying to think of something, John, that will give us something to talk to people about.
3:44:58There are 20 million of them out there.
3:45:01John Cotton has a different political view.
3:45:03He says he doesn't think we lose all the old folks.
3:45:06I don't think you do.
3:45:10I don't think you lose all of them.
3:45:12You lose the organizers, the Carmichael's guys and all of them.
3:45:20Why don't we let that float?
3:45:21We've gotten out of the 21st.
3:45:23Yes, I know.
3:45:24But why don't we let Captain Ryan... That's right.
3:45:34Well, I think your advice, that apparently you agreed with Sigler, that I should not go out at this point, because inevitably the main legal behind it is you.
3:45:45Right, right.
3:45:46And especially after that thing yesterday, I think we were the wise in not, you know, that was, that was a mistake against you.
3:46:00Yeah.
3:46:12Yeah.
3:46:20But since nobody's strong on that committee, he'll jump in and bang that.
3:46:26Well, he's hot and cold.
3:46:29He had a golden opportunity today to nail Kennedy.
3:46:32He didn't do it.
3:46:36Well, I think he should have said, okay, I want an executive session right now.
3:46:43And we've been demanding these documents.
3:46:45We've been in possession of a member of this committee.
3:46:48That's an unconscionable action for a senator to take in the context of this proceeding.
3:46:55Can it be done now?
3:46:58Can they arrest him?
3:47:00Yeah, but he's so clumsy.
3:47:02He's so clumsy.
3:47:05Really, Cook's the best one to do it, or Gurney.
3:47:08See, they're the two that we've been betting our money on.
3:47:11So I will not sit in any more of these hearings until we descend to your feet.
3:47:15Well, we'll try and position somebody this weekend to jump in on Monday and keep this thing alive.
3:47:21Keep it cranky.
3:47:25Let's pass the agent until John McConnell calls back, and then I'll pull together what everybody's reckoning.
3:47:32I don't want McConnell to be under any pressure.
3:47:35I'm trying to...
3:47:37Change his mind?
3:47:38Oh no, his own judgment.
3:47:40Now I had to listen to that.
3:47:41I told him that in advance, that you were not, that you weren't wavering at all and that you, in the event that he felt appropriate, he should pitch in with his views on this, but not necessarily.
3:47:57A couple odds and ends.
3:47:59George Allen may be trying to get a hold of you.
3:48:02I heard about that.
3:48:05Seats for the stadium?
3:48:05Yeah.
3:48:06Okay.
3:48:07Are you flooring?
3:48:08Oh, no.
3:48:09No.
3:48:09We made him a decent offer, and they have been trying to make some money off of your money.
3:48:17So if you just kind of get some of it, I'll steer clear of it.
3:48:28We're in kind of a funny spot with the Vice President.
3:48:31It's not a funny spot, it's understandable, but I want to be sure that I have your signal correct.
3:48:36The Vice President has the impression from conversations with you that he's free to speak his mind on any issue until you have made up your mind as to how you come down on the issue.
3:48:47Now, the effect of that, of course, is to foreclose options sometimes.
3:48:57Well, I'd like to suggest, then, that we pass the word to him that we're available for advance
3:49:07A guy this year that we've got to, that because of his, I compliment him, because of his influence and respect which he's listened to, that if he speaks out, it will tend to foreclose the option.
3:49:24And I feel that there may be a time that we'll want him to go to trial, but it should be on that basis, otherwise he should simply
3:49:33simply stand up for those things.
3:49:35This is the best strategy.
3:49:36This might sort of the necessary thing by appointing, by in fact saying, look, that was all right last year, but this year, this year, that's pretty way to go, John.
3:49:46Okay.
3:49:53Good.
3:49:53Because the constitutional amendment thing, for instance, by his speaking out on that,
3:49:59the general impression was given, and that was the way it was hidden, you know, I'm guessing, yeah.
3:50:08So, that isn't too bad.
3:50:10No, but it's an example.
3:50:11The legal services, he's gotten out on quite a few services, you know, and it's kind of awkward.
3:50:18I've got a long damn memo from Peter Flanagan to you about energy.
3:50:27Oh, Christ.
3:50:28And I'm just not going to burden your time with it.
3:50:33We are facing a natural gas shortage in this country.
3:50:37And there are some things we can do about it.
3:50:39But there isn't anything that you need to do about it.
3:50:42Of course not.
3:50:43Sure, that's fine.
3:50:44I'm just saying that it's important.
3:50:45Okay.
3:50:47We have to remember that there isn't anything more that we can take on.
3:50:51We have to remember, too, I don't see really, John, how anything responsible is going to come out of this Congress.
3:51:02Maybe it gets on the record share.
3:51:05Well, on Monday, Wednesdays, and Fridays, it looks like it.
3:51:08On Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays, it doesn't.
3:51:10So my view is to...
3:51:14I don't think anybody's told you about Jack Anderson on Hale Boggs and Carl Albert this morning.
3:51:20Just brutal.
3:51:34He says, Albert runs around with a Eurasian girl, and Albert takes the Eurasian girl out, and he hits the punch bowl too much, and Hale Boggs has had three fights, and he tells all about the three of them, and he's drunk all the time, and he's got this drinking problem.
3:51:57and that the House is leaderless, can we get Anderson involved and get a little mad at him?
3:52:03Well, I would think so.
3:52:05I would think so, my God.
3:52:05It might be just true that Albert Brown is a Eurasian.
3:52:08Well, he steps out occasionally.
3:52:10I haven't had this Eurasian girl pegged before, but if there's any question, he steps out.
3:52:15She does a horrible thing for the guy who runs the restaurant.
3:52:20Isn't that awful?
3:52:20Really, it is.
3:52:21And so, anyway, it goes to the point you're making, though, that the house is rudderless, and it really is.
3:52:25Actually, we know that.
3:52:27We're old.
3:52:28Albert, particularly.
3:52:30Yep.
3:52:30He's a drunk.
3:52:33But Albert's sort of proud.
3:52:35Yeah, but he's also badly on the model.
3:52:39Yeah.
3:52:42And he has a problem, too.
3:52:45You know what it is.
3:52:47He's a little man.
3:52:49If you take a man like that...
3:52:59You take a guy down and put him in 100 pounds, same with a woman.
3:53:02That's why I went and got a drink out.
3:53:05Because I hate a little, you know, you put that much alcohol into 100 pounds, it's one thing you put that much alcohol into 200 pounds, it is half the effect.
3:53:15I'm sure that's right.
3:53:18Well, anyway.
3:53:19Oh God, it was just, that's brutal.
3:53:23Uh, anyway, you're right about the Congress, and, uh... You know what you ever saw, I think, on the L.A. News, and, uh, would do is, uh, either everybody was drinking public health.
3:53:35Oh, God.
3:53:36Ever.
3:53:36Murdered a guy, you know.
3:53:38Who's murdering him?
3:53:40Murdering him.
3:53:41He's acting rather terrible than that.
3:53:44Very.
3:53:45Yes, he does.
3:53:46Super terrible.
3:53:47Yeah.
3:53:47Which I've ever done.
3:53:49I've noticed, I've noticed that he's...
3:53:51Well, he's out of parties, embassies, and things of that kind.
3:54:03No, the vice president, he's a soul of rectitude.
3:54:09He's very, very on the dignity side.
3:54:11He's talking together.
3:54:13He handles himself well.
3:54:15He's well-spoken.
3:54:19Well, that's all I had for now.
3:54:23And I know that when we really come down to it, we'll be doing something quite responsible.
3:54:35Well, I think we are going to be able to sell that as a highly responsible movement.
3:54:53I didn't want that.
3:55:01I thought it was a loser.
3:55:03Yeah, yeah.
3:55:04But I think the moratorium will be seen, or can be made to be seen, to be an extremely responsible proposal to take it out of the election year, to give the Congress a chance to study it, let things cool down, pull Wallace's teeth.
3:55:25Everybody will write that kind of stuff about it if we celebrate it.
3:55:30But I think, say Monday or whatever fits your schedule, we ought to sit down, George and Morgan, and just take down what you want to do.
3:55:45We can lead you through the choices.
3:55:48And you can give us your reactions.
3:55:51Well, let me say this.
3:55:52I want you to put yourself in exactly my position.
3:55:56And then, so that I would expect you to make a recommendation.
3:56:00I am not.
3:56:02On Marvin, I mean, you listen to Jeremy, but on Marvin and Chelsea, neither of them has...
3:56:09I'm curious.
3:56:09You'll get his advice.
3:56:11Schultz's political advice would not be what I would accept.
3:56:16Well, I know where Ed is on these things.
3:56:19I don't think I'd be interested in Conley's view.
3:56:24Well, I was saying some of that for his benefit today.
3:56:28John is a straight-up constitutional amendment by the truth.
3:56:33That isn't the right thing to do, is it?
3:56:36Dubois just wouldn't be seen as credible, wouldn't be seen as a responsible act, that's it.
3:56:45Well, if you like, then why don't I put something together for you this weekend as to what you recommend.
3:56:50As to what I recommend.
3:56:51You've thought about it, you've lived with it, you know this.
3:56:54You see, I haven't had the time to think it all through.
3:56:57I know, I know.
3:56:58And I'll have some time to think it through.
3:57:00Well, read some of this stuff.
3:57:01But then I'll, if I can get you to do it, then I may.
3:57:06The statement is going to be the thing that you really ought to make your own in this thing.
3:57:11As much as I can.
3:57:13As much as you have time for it.
3:57:15But we don't have to get it off Tuesday.
3:57:17I can't get ready for this.
3:57:20No, no.
3:57:20And Friday, anytime along in there, is plenty of time.
3:57:24I'm a little concerned about your kind of field questions on this.
3:57:27You can see how damn complex some of this stuff is.
3:57:31And, well, if you want to spend the time to get up on it,
3:57:37Oh, you mean to do the block of the press or something?
3:57:40No, I decided against that.
3:57:42I'm here just today.
3:57:43Okay.
3:57:44I think I should.
3:57:45The point is, it should, however, probably come off before I do the press conference.
3:57:51That's fine.
3:57:52And I think we can, yes, and I think we can equip you to handle that.
3:57:56We're going to have a press conference.
3:57:58Yeah.
3:57:59We're just going to give quick answers.
3:58:01So you can see in my statement where I covered that.
3:58:03I covered that in my statement.
3:58:04Yeah.
3:58:06We can do that.
3:58:06So then we get the simplistic answers there, right?
3:58:08And see.
3:58:08Here it goes.
3:58:09We'll see what they find out.
3:58:22You know, God damn it, I, it's a good, you know, a good, strong senator out there.
3:58:31God, with that kind of an opening today, I would have pounded the table.
3:58:33I would have said, I would have stomped out of the room and said, I am leading this here.
3:58:38So Senator Kennedy represents this memorandum.
3:58:41He is withholding evidence.
3:58:43He is.
3:58:44The privilege of a newspaper man is no longer involved.
3:58:48If the privilege is there, it should not be, it should be held against all, and not just to the committee.
3:58:53And not used in a partisan way.
3:58:56Do you think this all belonged to the Littler?
3:58:59Did you realize he was making a statement saying that that way?
3:59:06I'd say I'm in touch with the blow-by-blow up there.
3:59:11It was sure one of those golden moments that a guy like Cook could have, you know, really made himself important.
3:59:31I'll tell you, on the basis of what we discussed, you don't need to get too deep into that bussing paper.
3:59:38Well, I've got a way to look at Ray's.
3:59:40Yeah, way to look at Ray's.
3:59:41I know, I know what the issue is.
3:59:45Okay.
3:59:45I can see there.
3:59:46I just thought I'd make a hard line rather than a soft line.
3:59:50We're going to go over the moratorium, of course.
3:59:53He said he would try to have a price draft up due.
3:59:56I know it's fairly hard to process it tomorrow, but it's best to get it to work tight.
4:00:05Well, he's got a pretty long first draft well on the way.
4:00:08Sure.
4:00:09And so it won't be too much work for him to get those same drafts in shape.
4:00:17Have you stopped for the weekend?
4:00:19I haven't.
4:00:19No, I'm telling you, I'm sure you stopped a little.
4:00:22Okay.
4:00:22I don't know where we should be.
4:00:32If you approve of the idea of finding these minutes to the guests, I think, Mark, we've got to get in this ballgame.
4:00:40All right.
4:00:41And we're not in it right now in any kind of strong way.
4:00:46You think that'll get it in?
4:00:49I think it will.
4:00:50I think it'll get us.
4:00:51It certainly has on the networks.
4:00:53And, well, yeah, in the paper Sunday.
4:00:55And we'll be on the offensive a little bit.
4:00:56And we can use it.
4:00:58Yeah.
4:00:58You know, it's a little blacked out.
4:01:03The only thing, he shouldn't be blacked out.
4:01:05I was just looking back.
4:01:07Of course, I was reading Griswold's testimony.
4:01:10He couldn't have been blacked out.
4:01:13Peter, he couldn't have been blacked out.
4:01:15He was ironed.
4:01:16It got a little blacked out.
4:01:18It wasn't on the networks.
4:01:21No?
4:01:21No.
4:01:21One section on blackout.

Nixon, Haldeman & Ehrlichman on ITT anti-trust case and Dita Beard memorandum

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on March 10, 1972

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