Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 685 › Conversation 685-013

Nixon & Ziegler on ITT case and Peter M. Flanigan

Tuesday, March 14, 1972 · 3:16 PM–3:24 PM ET · Oval Office

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.Conversation685-013 on Tape 685 (tape position 05:23:08–05:31:19)StartTuesday, March 14, 1972 at 3:16 PMEndTuesday, March 14, 1972 at 3:24 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 685-013 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler met to coordinate the White House's public response to ongoing controversy surrounding the ITT case. They discussed strategies for defending staff member Peter M. Flanigan against political attacks, emphasizing that White House officials must maintain contact with various sectors of society as a standard professional duty. Nixon and Ziegler also reviewed the effectiveness of John N. Mitchell's recent testimony, agreeing to maintain a firm stance and frame the criticism from senators as politically motivated harassment.

Audio

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This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 05:23:08 into the tape and ends around 05:31:19.

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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· Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.
5:23:08It is the most difficult domestic problem that I have encountered since the present and perhaps the most difficult one that has confronted this nation in a hundred years.
5:23:13Put it that way.
5:23:16And so I realize it's an awesome, solid responsibility, and it's not scary that I would probably try to read the message tonight.
5:23:23But what I have done, this is, you might know this from the end, from the end, I don't know if you, if you're talking about the message, you might not, I, I'd like to summarize it for you.
5:23:33I want to get some of the highlights.
5:23:37And then you've got all eight edits in the original, the message you're reading, see?
5:23:50and show you that they're out of the page so that they don't say, gee, why did you pick this up, pick that up?
5:23:57But in terms of, I just want you to put yourself in the position of that average person out there.
5:24:03Think of his child or his neighbor's child riding that goddamn school bus.
5:24:08See?
5:24:08Got it?
5:24:14I think so.
5:24:15Well, I have a moratorium that this means stop, freeze, something like that.
5:24:23I think the word moratorium has been so, if you think there's a question, I think it has to, I don't think it does use it, let me say, because I think it's pretty...
5:24:35Yeah.
5:24:36This means that there will be a free stop.
5:24:38There will be no more Boston Air.
5:24:41See?
5:24:41This gives us time to do it.
5:24:49That would be the way to do it.
5:24:58Yeah.
5:25:01Oh, I know that.
5:25:02I know you said we wouldn't expect you to even approach us.
5:25:06Why don't you take the rest of the day?
5:25:11No.
5:25:11No, I mean, they don't know.
5:25:12My thought is that I should be able to get up in the morning.
5:25:17How's that sound to you?
5:25:19By the morning.
5:25:20By the morning, no.
5:25:21I mean, you work with the employer.
5:25:23Work around.
5:25:24No.
5:25:26But I'm going to ask you to do something.
5:25:27I do not want you to share this around with anybody.
5:25:29I don't want you to let me start that after I see the first address.
5:25:34You're going to have, with all that I can offer you, I'm going to ask you to carry out that message and carry it with everybody.
5:25:42Now this thing, I will decide just you and I won't share it.
5:25:46and I'll decide if I'm going to let anybody else see what I do with the bridge.
5:25:50You see, you've got to be ready, you've got to land, and then you're going to have to send it over to Richardson, and he'll try to write something into it.
5:25:58You've got to send it to Earl and the rest, and he's going to work.
5:26:01I know what he's going to do, and I'm going to make that decision, and that's going to be it.
5:26:07So don't shift this.
5:26:08Don't let anybody know what's coming out.
5:26:10Just do your work on something, and it's a deep, dark secret.
5:26:15You and I will split it up.
5:26:17It's absolutely no copies to anybody.
5:26:19Don't discuss it with anybody.
5:26:21Don't ask anybody anything.
5:26:23I'm going to say the right thing to do, okay?
5:26:26And then we'll say tomorrow, if I get there, I'll see something around.
5:26:30Well, by the first thing tonight, I'll say 10 o'clock.
5:26:36Well, I'll say, yeah, you've got to have a...
5:26:41I won't need to see it say 930.
5:26:42It's better.
5:26:43930.
5:26:43Okay.
5:26:43If that doesn't give you the second you have, I mean, 31 to 945.
5:26:47That's it.
5:26:48That's it.
5:26:48That's it.
5:26:48All right.
5:26:51Bye.
5:26:52All right.
5:26:54Bye.
5:27:09Now, it seems to me that we're going to have to just say
5:27:35gentlemen uh it seems to be there's not a flanagan factor involved there's political factor involved now you know we're moving into a political year and i'm not going to stand here and comment on go through that and then say i'll just say this president nixon has total confidence in mr flanagan and feels that he has conducted himself properly why he's been here then i think i'll go on to say
5:27:57Look, we have...
5:27:57He is honest.
5:27:59As a matter of fact, if you judge Senator Eagle legally, we can see progress.
5:28:16I thought another point to make is we have men in the White House and in the administration who are assigned staff people
5:28:39to have contact with various segments of society, civil rights groups, education, labor, health, business.
5:28:49And then if they press me, I'm going to cut it off by saying, to suggest that every time someone in the White House or someone in the administration talks to someone from business,
5:28:59And that that is improper is just totally absurd.
5:29:02And I'm not even going to get into...
5:29:04Totally absurd.
5:29:05And throw somebody out of the business.
5:29:07Or somebody come later.
5:29:09We have people that talk to... Sure.
5:29:11People come later all the time, too.
5:29:13People talk.
5:29:13It's like, relax.
5:29:14We've got...
5:29:15It's the only way you can cover it.
5:29:18That's right.
5:29:18That's the only way you can cover it.
5:29:19And the wife, we have always said that anybody that's behind us...
5:29:27The president believes that any person who has a concern, who wants to express the president, they can't all see the president.
5:29:41They see people.
5:29:42The question is, how do the presidents handle it?
5:29:44Do they handle it in an honest way?
5:29:46Do they have an honest response to the president?
5:29:50Oh, and I have to say this.
5:29:56that you challenge any of the senators trying to constrain us.
5:30:02I mean, try to constrain us.
5:30:05And then one instance in which he has done anything which has resulted in pushing me.
5:30:15Just put that in the paper.
5:30:17They're going to come up and say, your idea of this is political.
5:30:25It's horrible.
5:30:26Sure, but I think we have to come out strong on this.
5:30:29If not, it's going to look like we're waffling on it.
5:30:33Because Mitchell's testimony is quite good.
5:30:38Well, pretty steady.
5:30:39And Eastman came up to me and said, what do you think?
5:30:42He said, I think he's telling the cold-blooded truth.
5:30:48which is a pretty good line.
5:30:49What kind of men do they try to harass?
5:30:53Well, I haven't sort of talked to them.
5:30:56I'm just getting back to you.
5:30:57The wire services do not serve as white-stabbed rich men.
5:31:03Well, he made them rich men.
5:31:06He denied other obligations.
5:31:08One thing, which was pretty good point, when he was asked whether or not he used a language that was attributed to him, and that he said they could keep...
5:31:18Hartford, if they give up Grinnell, Mitchell said, I haven't used language like that since I used to play Monopoly.

NARA Description

On March 14, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:16 pm to 3:24 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 685-013 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 685-13

Date: March 14, 1972
Time: 3:16pm - 3:24 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Ronald L. Ziegler.

       Press briefing
             -Time
                    -Questions

                    -International Telephone and Telegraph [ITT] case
                          -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
                          -John D. Ehrlichman
                                 -Thomas F. Eagleton
                          -Peter M. Flanigan
                          -Political factor
                          -Flanigan
                                 -Ziegler’s comments
                                       -Eagleton
                          -White House staff
                                 -Staff duties
                                 -Business
                          -Senators
                                 -Flanigan
                          -Political factor
                          -John N. Mitchell's testimony
                                 -James O. Eastland
                                       -Press statement
                                 -Press stories
                                 -Content
                                       -Hartford
                                       -Grinnell
                          -Flanigan
                          -Grinnell
                                 -Article in Washington Star
                          -Mitchell's testimony
                          -Congress
                          -White House staff
                                 -Group
                          -Flanigan
                                 -Compared to other White House staffers
                                       -Duties

Ziegler left at 3:24 pm.

Also recorded on March 14, 1972

  • 021-066 2:55 PM · 20 min — President Richard M. Nixon and William L. Safire talked on the telephone from 2:55 pm to 3:15 pm.
  • 685-012 2:55 PM · 20 min — President Richard M. Nixon and William L. Safire met in the Oval Office of the White House from 2:55 pm to 3:15 pm.
  • 021-067 3:15 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:15 pm and 4:18 pm.
  • 685-014 3:24 PM · 55 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:24 pm to 3:25 pm.
  • 685-015 3:25 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Debbie Wright, George H. Mahon, Raymond L. Schafer, Macon T. Edwards, James T. Hazelwood, John E. Nidecker, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:25 pm to 3:31 pm.
  • 685-016 3:31 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 3:31 pm and 3:37 pm.
  • 685-017 3:31 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 3:31 pm and 3:37 pm.
  • 685-018 3:37 PM · 14 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, Tricia Nixon Cox, Luci Johnson Nugent, Patrick L. Nugent, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:37 pm to 3:49 pm.

All 41 conversations from March 14, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 685-013, March 14, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/685-013 (accessed October 23, 2026).