Nixon, Shultz & Haldeman on Pay Board and wage and price controls

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quite a bit of information in the papers and statements from at least one labor member of the paperwork that the AFL-CIO people may pull off the paperwork tomorrow.

Now, there are many respects in which it doesn't make a lot of sense, but nevertheless, that seems to be the fact that we need on John and

I've heard Don Rumsfeld and I have talked about this a number of times.

I guess I shouldn't go into too much of a discussion.

And our feeling is that we should today be sure that we have done whatever we can to assure them that we want them on the board and we're trying to make this work and so forth.

We do have one or two things that

are responsive to criticisms and opinions made, and they're things that actually we have in the works anyway, such as we talked about at that breakfast.

So we think something before their meeting would be called for, and then we have, they do pull off various plans for keeping everything going, maintain these stands and a strong control program that we may have by Wednesday night in a little different situation.

So we're there.

Now, uh, we all feel, and I think, uh, especially so, that a, uh, a good thing to do, if you can, would be for you to call Amy.

Uh, she loves me when I'm that way, George, all the time.

Somebody else is better than home today.

Well, I just, I, I, I schedule so, so today that I don't want to work again.

Like now, for example.

I've got to see you first in about five minutes, and I think I've got the time.

Okay.

So you call him.

I'll call him and stay with Dr. Oliver.

Okay.

You know, you're fully right.

He wants to get all of this thing out.

We're just going to have to play it hard.

Well, I think our instinct and our plan is to play it hard, but at the same time to not leave

If I call him down, I just call him and say, please, George, please stay on the board.

That isn't going to be a good thing.

That's not a good move.

Not to go to him.

That's a posture.

Well, I don't know of anything else, but I'm asking, would you, uh...

You'd feel the same about the same body going over there.

And though you're going, it's perfect.

It's fine.

I think if we laid the foundation that way, you could go and say, now look, we had this practice, and we're not going to put you in a position, you know, embarrassment and the rest of it.

You ought to go as the, you're the one to do it, too, and say, look, we had this meeting.

I'm going to tell them what goes on here.

I'm going to put the sword in the big one and organize.

They're going to get a hell of a run on that.

and it'll be a good, what can you do to continue the plan?

What else can you do without me?

Well, it's not clear that Woodcock and Pessimons would walk off if he does.

And so then the thought is we would maintain the present structure and vote the later.

Yeah.

Harder.

If they pull off, then our feeling is... Well, if they're struck out in the law, they were placed on certain things.

They violated the law.

Okay.

still a functioning board.

If Woodcock and Fitzsimmons go off, then we think that the public members should basically constitute the board and continue to interpret the policies that have been laid out on a case-by-case basis so we have as close to the present structure of the board as we can and we maintain an operational

Is that what you're going to tell them?

Bacon to stay on?

Not the bacon to stay on but just to

say that we read in the papers what they're planning to do.

You see, if I call him, he puts it in the position where he then says, well, I'm not going to kill him, and so forth and so on.

And he puts the ball over here in his skirt.

I've got to keep it one step removed from me at this point.

If he moves, I'm going to kick him so goddamn hard he'll never forget it.

You know, he'll be fooling around.

So it's over then.

All he's got to do is play golf with him and all that crap.

That's the way he's going to play the game.

It's hard to understand, and I don't know that I do understand why it is he's doing this, because it couldn't be a worse time.

The long-short settlement, whatever may be said about code of conduct is very, very high.

And it... Well, it's still a... What the pay board approved is high.

Right.

I mean, there's no problem they've provided for...

It's not a good time for him, and so that is puzzling why he is doing this.

Yeah.

Well, I'll go...

I think you ought to...

I'm not suggesting you stay on the board, but... Don't be... Don't be... You're in a position to supplement...

saying, look, this is not in the interest of organized labor, and here's what we're doing, and we're trying to be fair here.

You're not making the right move.

But what is the conference argument that I should call it?

Does he think that would be more effective?

Well, he doesn't think you should engage in much of an argument with him, but really make a contact and send me over.

And the reason the arguments that he gives are

The main one.

Well, the contact base, uh, you know, that, uh, uh, what he wants to do.

I called him on the phone, so for you to just go.

I wanted to just call him and say the President is asking to come to see you.

That's the same thing.

And I will get him on the phone and he says, well, I don't think I want to see him because I'm not going to talk about his support.

You know me, he takes the offense because he did at the breakfast.

He started off years and a half on the wrong.

And we're not going to put ourselves in that position.

But I think you should call him and say, you've just come from, you can say, I'm just calling from the president's office.

He said, why don't you just say that?

Just go right out and call right from here and say, I'm calling from the president's office.

We've just met.

He's asking to come over and see you.

How's that sound to you?

Well, a principal thing that we're planning to do is exempt small businesses from the control.

And I think he would like that, and among other things,

He's made this argument that our low-income exemption is too low, the dollar and four, remember?

And at the same time, he'll read in the breakfast that if we exempt small firms, that pretty well exempts a lot of low-income people.

And his party is taking care of this, and we think it would make a stronger control program anyway.

So that's going to happen.

That's something, of course, that the council is getting ready to do anyway.

So that is my concession.

Why, you didn't say it.

I didn't say it.

No, I wouldn't call it a concession.

I mean, I wouldn't say it again.

Let me do what I say to you in response, okay?

Well, I won't get out of your way.

Just a second.

If you think it's important for me to make the date for you, I'll do it, but I don't.

Well, it wasn't that so much as the record of our willingness to work with people and to try to make this thing go, but I think I can handle it on the basis of you suggesting that I'm in trouble.

I'll do that.

I can follow that.

Thank you, Mike.

I don't know.

I just want to get into the argument.

I said, I think if you could just say, I'm calling from the president and I'm calling from his office.

I'm sitting here with the president.

I'm calling from his office.

He'd like me to come over and see you.

Can I come over and see you?

Can I see you?

Was the message from him?

Fair enough, fair enough.

And you say it with very attention to small business.

Okay, good luck.

I think we'll probably be back to you tomorrow, or the next day, on our reaction to whatever it is that he does.

And it may very well be that this is the opening gun of a Democratic attack on the control program coming from the Joint Economic Committee and the later movement and so on.

And that may be... Well, I have the capability to say that's the reason that I...

They're going to see if it's about the right thing.

I have a feeling that Manning's intuition as a Democratic partisan now is what's really motivating him.

And if he figures here's a way to clear the field of things, he's going to start cutting it up.

And he knows the CPI may be higher, so he's not going to be a squeal about that.

Right?

Right.

Well, I think what they're probably, it may be what they're doing is getting ready to position themselves against control.

And they wanted them, but they didn't get put on right and so forth.

So they're against the brand and they'll develop that as an issue.

But I don't know that.

We're just trying to figure out what it is that would lead him to do this at such a bad time.

Well, he's doing it for a bad time.

We're going to kick the hell out of him if he starts this way.

It's not going to be any waste kind of an operation.

It's going to be conciliatory at all.

Well, if you were to have a press conference on Thursday morning, you'd have quite a load to say on the subject matter.

Thank you.

If he does work on it.

Right.

Okay.

All right.

I'm sorry to interrupt.

Did you want the answer?

You were right.

There's no problem on it, I don't think, because the solution that we are proposing is the solution Rogers will want anyway.

Well, let's consider the fact, consider you talking to Hague on another point, Mr. whether we ought to make the Polish government's races, whether we ought to do it ourselves.

Well, he and Henry feel strongly, no.

Why?

They think that the Soviets are in on it, too, and they're trying to do it as a part of their thing to tie in the bloc.

And the Soviet want us to go.

He thinks they may.

And from a political standpoint, we should.

That's one thing we'd also like to make of the American portals.

Why, of course, this boat with the President is damn good.

See what I mean?

Yeah.

That's what I'm thinking about.

Talk to Hayes about that.

Because basically the line had been bothered.

But the point is, let's take a look.

Maybe the Soviets played their goddamn game.

They could have gone first and then up to Poland and then back.

Yeah, I think so.

Poland had to be stopped on the way back.

a very effective thing to do from a domestic political thing in the event, see my argument for not doing it would be only if we thought it would screw up the Soviet summit.

But I can't believe that the Poles would ask, unless they're Soviet, that's what happens.

There is Soviet interference in every election, since there is.

And it seems to me that the thing to do is to

So your inclination would be to go with it.

Play the game my way.

In other ways, go to Bowman.

There's David Nicholson.

Get the hell over to Daniel.

Anyone see?

Yeah.

Now the other way, it can't just be played in terms of the fact, well, now it's my degree.

If there are strong board policy reasons for not doing it.

Is that, is that Al's line?

I didn't put any details on it, so let's, let me, and I didn't pursue this line, so let's go into it.

Let's see if there are strong board policy reasons for not doing it.

they have to be a bit more competitive.

On the other hand, there's just one of those things that's come see, come saw, and there's a hell of an advantage for us to get into the poll on some basis, you see.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

I'm making sure they don't think what Henry's thinking about them.

Sure.

Because just like on television, the China news, basically we have to think of the public act reaction of the president and then the communication.

And it's the same thing as the Russian reaction.

Anyway, so we'll, and the lead writers, are you going to have them talking about a European trip, do you think?

No, and I talked to Al about that.

That is right on track, and Al suggested I not make an issue of talking to him about it, but just raise it when I'm talking with him.

Yeah.

Because they're working on that itinerary, and if there is any problem at the time of getting off, any person.

Yeah.

Right?

And I think the state's working with Al on that.

Good.

I was going to ask you about the...

I had a second thought about Greene.

I don't believe that when Greene goes out, when he goes out to meet the press, that it's all going to be about time.

That issue is pretty well sunk at the moment.

Also, if Greene goes out, I think Greene, with his rather flippant, buoyant personality, can give a very upbeat...

reaction to the China visit.

Now, the argument that you and Ron make that he's going to be on Meet the Press is irrelevant.

Yeah.

Because at the Meet the Press, you can get half the audience.

The other half, you can repeat it.

You can do it twice.

So where are we?

What is the best way to do that?

Do we have a green...

If you want to do it and make some news, the best way to do it is to do it tomorrow.

Take a half-hour break at midday, see Green, and then let him go out.

All right.

Because, you know, and you get, let his story be the story out here tomorrow.

All right.

Well, you've got to figure it out.

I don't know what it would be if the labor people weren't going to stand up and hear the story.

Well, that would be the story out there.

But we could have this...

I can have, uh...

The other possibility is to have him come before and do a Friday, yes, a Friday story, yes.

Rather than have him go down on the plane with me to, uh...

I mean, after all, I...

He's blinded, which puts more attention on him, really, you know.

Yeah.

I'm sure.

But he's blind.

He's gonna lie down and go out and read the press.

And as it is a Friday story, it seems to me that the Friday story might be wrong.

What's the better day?

Either one.

That'd be just as good.

It might be better because they're looking.

Anything from down there gets a better ride.

We won't have anything out of there.

I'm inclined to think that he could come down and fly it on Friday, but I don't think I should call.

The moment I say, come down on the plane with me, I've got to take him and Rogers on the plane.

If they come down, that's a different matter.

Would you appreciate a ring sign?

Come down Friday.

That'd be fair enough.

Makes sense, doesn't it?

Have a meeting and he comes down and sees me and say, 11 o'clock, right?

Make it 11.30.

It goes over.

I think that's a pretty good story, huh?

Yeah.

Anything else, Patrick, today?

No.

I don't know.

We'll find out.

You never know something.

We'll find out whether they're wearing clothes, too.

What about the other case?

Pretty much being ignored.

It's old stuff, but recognized as it.

They got a little blip on Sunday night, but not much after that.

Yeah.

He had a couple of good tracks.

He had a whole barrage of pieces.

I saw one of them.

It was really pretty funny.

But that track he made, though, what was it about that he doesn't read his...

He says, I never read fiction.

And then he said, what about life?

And he said, they're the people who got taken in by Herbie.

their credibility, I wouldn't yell much on their credibility, you know, taken in by Irving.

He said, so I haven't read the thing.

And then the guy said, well, do you think the charges are true?

And he said, now that's a stupid damn question.

I just told you I hadn't read the thing.

How do I know?

And he said, but I certainly wouldn't give it any credibility based on it coming from life.

And he said, frankly, I think the best thing for life to do is follow Luke's example.

He just left it.

But he did it.

You know, you read it.

It sounds like pretty harsh stuff when you see it on television.

He was, he was like, he was, he was sort of like, it was great.

It was pretty good.

That's the way that was.

It's sort of, it's not like that.

People like it after this one, right?

Did these little trees come from China?

Yeah.

Were they a gift?

They were brought back.

I think they were a gift, yeah.

They're just darn.

Now, Julie's been wanting one of those so bad.

Well, they're very hard to grow.

According to Rex, they're very special.

I was going to buy one for her one month.

And unless you're home to take care of them,

I guess that's right.

Always find out whether the other ball is working over the coach.

The President and the Prime Minister will only stand at attention during the national meeting in two months.

The President and the Prime Minister.

Thank you.

Nixon, Shultz & Haldeman on Pay Board and wage and price controls

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on March 21, 1972

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