Conversation 690-008

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Sure, sure.

I'm going to move our chairs a little closer.

That's the best.

I'm going to move back.

All right.

You'll visit it like, uh, when, uh, I did.

We're, uh, stopped there on the way.

It's a round-the-world trip, I think.

I agree with you.

I'm sorry.

What's your name again?

Howdy, Terry.

How are everybody now?

Well, we always have a custom to give members of the press a chance to sign bills here.

We always give the plans to the Congress and Senators, but we figured the press ought to have a chance to do it, so we'll see that each one gets one.

Yes, sir.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Do you know General Haig?

He's my military security man.

Thank you all for coming.

I have a question, buddy.

I don't know if you'd like me to talk to you, but I have a question.

Mr. President, let me convey to you our President's hope.

invitation to you.

When, for example, returning from Moscow, if you can stay a few hours with us in Istanbul, or if you prefer in Angra, it would be very wonderful for us to receive you.

Even for few hours, for example, in Istanbul.

In May, Istanbul is wonderful.

We can prepare for you a trip in the Bosphorus by boat.

And you will have a look at the Niagara of Istanbul.

And after that, you will have more time.

We will be very glad and honored to see you in Ankara.

But it is your...

desire and preference to come to Antalya or your great country, say, Landmark, Istanbul.

From the political point of view, after your visit to Moscow, is it comfortable for Turkish-African opinion?

Because the Russian propaganda is very strong in our country.

We are surrounded now by countries that are very close to their system.

Bulgaria, Iraq, and Syria.

Yes, you have Bulgaria, Iraq, and Syria.

You've got a long way to go.

Bulgaria is very close to the Ba'ath Party.

The Russian system is very close to Bulgaria.

Bulgaria is completely armed by Russian weapons and our military command is very excited about it.

Now, what the Prime Minister was suggesting next time I checked in front of you like cigars, Michael, they, I think we brought some.

These are, we can't offer you.

Ah, thank you.

No, no, no.

Those are Canary Island.

Thank you.

And they're mangoes.

Well, anyway, he was suggesting that if we, on our return from Moscow, could stop, recognizing that we couldn't work at a station, he said, stop.

Very reassuring.

Thank you.

Very good luck.

Yes, sir.

We'll get to what our...

Yes, sir.

I don't know whether it's possible because we're in the middle of our...

Our congressional session and I are breaking a week on this.

Breaking a week on his heart and adding to it.

I don't know what day it will be.

It's only a few hours, but it will give a very big interest and importance to your staff in Istanbul and part of Turkey for our public opinion, our military, and even around Turkey, the Irish countries, your interest in Turkey.

I want to give you a bit of a thank you for us.

Let me say that in that respect that I don't know what we can work out, but I can assure you and I assure you and your government that I do hope to come to Turkey at some point.

I don't know.

I mean, I do.

But we...

We consider your country, as I said, a very strong ally, a good friend.

When I say a strong ally, you are courageous people.

You are surrounded by potential enemies.

The less courageous people who cave in,

But you do not.

You do try to have good relations with your neighbors, but on the other hand, you still keep your... We understand better, you understand how difficult it is.

And at some point, I would hope to...

This is the

week of the anniversary you're taking over the office.

Yes, it's 26th of March, not 6th of March.

So I formed the new government just the anniversary.

I was appointed at 19th of March and in one week I formed my new government.

You know the evidence in Turkey.

I ask, Mr. President, if you will permit me, I will begin by explaining to you what's going on.

That's all right.

I appreciate it.

I said in my final decision to talk in absolute confidence.

We will not distribute barcodes to anybody.

This is just between us.

So I said that we ought to start out with this.

And I must add to that, the subversion is very active in our country.

This anarchist terrorist movement, the subversives, used to subversive, supported by money and by... Go on again.

I do not know who is preparing and suffocating this feeling.

But, let us say, it's...

He has no hope, he has no hope to separate Turkey from NATO and Western allies with democratic system, because in our parliament, two main parties are votes for NATO allies, for Western partnership.

Then, only way for them is to practice diversification, like in Czechoslovakia in 1948 against Masaryk.

They organized a very few, small minority, but very little, and sustained by a vote.

And one night, they took over the power.

Last night, in March 9, they relaxed such a director very closely.

If the high commander of the army hadn't been enough alert, we just elapsed the stature at the night of March 1971, a military coup, with a connection with the anarchists and the terrorists, and I should feel it by all.

They prefer their plan, for example, to destroy the presidential palace by napalm bomb and to kill all the intellectuals who are against the communists.

They infiltrate the universities.

And all the universities, they always do that.

And mainly these anarchists and terrorists are university students.

Even they push their organization toward the high schools.

Then the four commanders of the army, the generals of the staff, and two or three commanders of the air,

sea and ground forces, presented an amount to the president of the Republic, power to the government.

And they said, this diversity in the country is very dangerous.

You have to reconstitute it.

forceful government and look after this situation.

Then the government resigned.

The president of this party called me to form the new government as a man neutral between the party politics, not implemented in party council.

Then since this period, we try to stop

the activities of the anarchists and terrorists.

They kidnapped the General Consul of Israel and killed him last year.

They are robbing every day one bank.

They were menacing the rich man to take money from them.

Every day the families were not sure that your children were going to school.

In the evening they'd come without wounded or without care.

It was a terrible situation.

And after I formed the new government, they continued.

They continued.

I became general officer of Israel after my death office.

Then we declared martial law.

Now in six regions of the country we have martial law.

Military administration is looking after this kind of crime, terrorism, anarchism, and communism.

In the same time, I am trying to maintain democratic institutions.

The Parliament is working.

And in the Parliament, the great criticism is continuing.

Every day, some of the parties, fighting a two-mile, they say to me, go on or resign.

And the newspapers, they want you to be more hard on them.

More hard on them.

Toward the anarchists, what do you call them?

They just want you to be more soft on them.

Okay.

But it's at the middle of the right.

I'm, as a professor of international law, I'm trying to maintain the Constitution.

And the Constitution is the Constitution.

For example, we have a Constitutional Court looking after the constitutionality of the law.

If a law is accepted by the parliament and is filed by the Constitutional Court, anti-constitutional, then the

So this law is no more applied.

We have the Conseil d'Etat, French Conseil d'Etat, looking after the acts of administration, this act conforms or not to the laws.

Our judiciary is very independent and impartial.

They are continuing their work.

As you saw, the newspaper men, all these newspaper men are, for example, from the opposition, and they are also excited because they are very free.

And I am trying to maintain this system.

I separated the terrorist and I gave them to the military administration.

The military tribunals looked after their case.

The others, the normal people, normal common citizens, are living their own normal life.

But it is a very difficult situation to maintain and to continue.

If this situation was created by an internal organization or an amateurish student, it was very easy for me to stop them.

But I'm sure that it is filled by external organizations.

In Stockholm, they have organizations.

They have a movement, an association for the separatism of Kurdish nation of Turkey, South-East Germany.

In East and West Germany, they have organizations.

Actually, we have in Germany 500,000 Turkish workers.

Mr. Fennel is very good, too.

He had an idea there.

Kissinger, when he was in the Bronx, they all say these Turkish workers are great.

But 500,000 only workers, they're families, children, et cetera, nearly 1 million.

And we like that, it's serious.

Communist propaganda are very on this people.

In Palestine, in the countless of Palestine jails,

There is Turks, young boys, even girls, trained there, and armed by dynamite, liberal wear, and politics for anarchy and terrorism, sent back to Turkey.

Who is bringing that to these campuses and sent back there?

Who is organizing in Stockholm these associations for dividing Turkey?

in many parts.

I have no proven evidence, but the logic pushed me to conclude that it is someone who is interested in getting Turkey, to divide Turkey, to separate Turkey from a nation.

For example, a few years ago,

It was impossible for the government of this time to secure the visit of Siegfried to Istanbul.

This anarchist and terrorist demonstrated against American fleet.

They told them some in the sea, in the seafront.

And the government was incapable to make something to this people.

All this was maintained by international comment.

Now we have this.

The underground preparation work is still continuing.

And I underline this point.

that it is a danger, not only for Turkey, for NATO, for our front.

And then, if you permit, I suggest that this point must be studied and discussed between us, between allies, and what can be our measure against this type of preparation.

Lastly, 10 days ago, we arrested 58 officials

from the army, young officers, and captains, involved, very involved by these organizations.

They were involved in subversion of Jews.

They, some months ago, someone of these terrorists, leaders of these terrorists, evaded from the military prison near Istanbul.

And we discovered that this lieutenant prepared this evasion.

Then, from far, one couldn't realize what kind of danger menacing us, actually, in Turkey.

And this is not, for example, a young person who writes a model or car marks or together, and then habitually they like to make the same thing, same organ.

No, they are puppets for some others, stronger people, much better, tougher organ, I see.

And then, for example, we are trying to reorganize our army, to modernize the presence of our army.

But this is, for example, the pilots of the plane, the aeroplane, is gained by arms by other side.

What we can do?

nothing against the moral collapse of the officials.

Then,

I remember him, Khrushchev's words some years ago, he said, we will not make the war, we will gain the world peaceful due to socialism.

One of the myths they are using now, in my understanding, not only Turkey, but all, in all the countries, in Germany, in France, when I visited France in January, Shabandar Mas told me, he said,

Yes, it is exciting that in France also, for example, in the 1980s, the Communists became very, very big and very dangerous.

And here, after all, the Communist men in the towns are very, very working, and people like them.

That's the job we have to do.

Then our main problem now in South Turkey is to stop, to disorganize this anarchist and terrorist movement infiltrated in the army, infiltrated in the universities, even they are going now to the high schools.

He wrote sometimes how even our present ally doesn't realize what is Turkish main worries now.

This is our main worry.

We are very suffering from this kind of activities.

In other part,

For example, a professor at the university, if he is gained by communism, is his dynamics active?

The others, who are thinking like us, are very timid, fearful, and when they talk with you, they will explain who is very bad, etc.

When you ask them, why you are not reacting?

But then you are not making any decisions, but you are not starting fighting all over again.

And then the last, they say that we are fearful, we do nothing, etc.

This is one of my main worries as president in our country.

But we are courageous enough, we are very...

decided against the armies as all, the commander and the other captains and about the captains, majors and colonels, loyal and they are fairly against the companies.

Fairly, they still are, you know.

At the young generation, there is another mind.

Maybe...

Let me ask you, Prime Minister, do you think a harder line, you take the Greeks, you know, the Greek colonels.

Now, of course, our new friends, particularly in the Nordic countries and the British, the rest criticize them.

But the Greek colonels say, well, that's the only way we can stop the subversion.

On the other hand, you're trying to do it through constitutional means.

What is the right way?

How is it right, Mr. President?

You can't go in a dictatorship.

How to come out of that?

It is such a problem that we want to solve it.

And when the military commanders go in politics,

Their own taxes suffered from that and in a short time they have been treating them some conflicts and for the army it's finished.

We have in Turkey now a very professional, very strong in his hierarchy discipline.

But when you put the military in the government, in the administration, in six months or one year's time, it's finished.

I think we have to try this way.

And if...

We can take measures, long-range measures.

Now, my second subject is that in Turkey, unfortunately, there is an atmosphere, economically, socially, to give grounds for this kind of propaganda.

Because our population is growing.

Each year, one million.

We are now 38 million.

And our growth of population percentage is very high.

Highest in the world.

Three percent.

2.7 percent, 8 percent, 3 percent, like that.

And some part of our country's above all,

near the Iranian border, Iraqi border, Syrian border, is very backwards.

And the economic situation is very bad.

Since 1961, we are applying five years' claims.

In these five years' claims, we succeeded to take care

another level to a higher level, the standards of living.

But it is not enough yet, because we couldn't give schools to everybody.

We couldn't give jobs to everybody.

I said we have 500,000 workers only in Germany, 700,000 workers.

But still, 1.5 million people waiting for a job at all, because we could procure them inside Turkey such jobs.

As in the summer, I asked you, Mr. President, to be helpful to us for our plan, not by giving us money or credits, but supporting us, for example, at the World Bank.

I advise the first man to support Turkey in its efforts to resolve this economic and social problem.

I can openly say to you, we have not enough know-how.

I need so much your know-how.

I need so much know-how of the World Bank.

For example, I said to Ambassador Handy, I don't ask money, I ask the specialists of the United States for creating in this region a new type of agriculture.

Because the farmers, when they grow something.

And now this is going well, this program now.

I'm glad that the Hong Kong operation disappeared.

We're very grateful that it disappeared.

We know it's hard for you, but we were very grateful.

I'm sure that made a very good change.

because the United States had been passed since 1947, militarily, economically, morally, in fact.

And I, when I was reading the newspapers, the New York Times, the periodicals, how the families suffered here in the United States, and even if I put in my program, the first page of the Sixth of March, that the fenomenal equation, the suffering of others, the suffering for us, we will,

fight this smuggling of opium and we will find a solution to that disease.

We will find a solution.

We banned it in accordance with your master and now

We are paying compensation to the farmers.

They are very satisfied with this compensation.

And even the farmers who put the seed on the fields this year, this last autumn, they ask now to eradicate their fields and they ask compensation for them.

Then, the money we are paying for, for example, one kilogram of puppy, we are paying 525 Turkish Liras, maybe about 35 dollars.

It's too much because this money doesn't pay that to the one who spent it in the field.

See, the pride is growing after changing their hands, as the bosses of the Seminaries, Seminaries of the Church, Seminaries of the Church, Seminaries of the Church, Seminaries of the Church, Seminaries of the Church, Seminaries of the Church, Seminaries of the Church, Seminaries of the Church, Seminaries of the Church,

If we will be successful on the substitute products in this region of Turkey, I will apply that to other regions of Turkey for modernizing the agriculture in the country.

It will create an example for the other regions of Turkey.

In 1947, the United States sent us a road machine.

Our highway system is created by this United States road mission.

And everybody is remembering now that this road system is created by United States mission.

Now, in the agriculture, when we prefer in small region, this new kind of agriculture, cultivation, or some time,

children, and others, etc.

I'm sure that there was, we say again, that with the collaboration of the United States, we had this result.

And then, for, I,

When I analyzed the situation, I couldn't separate the military strength from the economic and social weakness.

They are very intermingled.

Because the moral of the soldiers, moral of the official is touched by this propaganda when the economic situation, social situation is not

satisfactory enough.

For example, now I get the idea of saying that in 1995, Turkey, I like to explain, had the per capita income of Italy's today's tax.

I mean, 1,513,000 per capita.

Italy is not at this level today.

In 1995, we will be a full member of the economic community, of the European economic community.

Then, we are tired of all that, and we met Mr. McNamara.

I have with me the Undersecretary of the Planning Department.

We have plans to explain to him that this project is very profitable for the World Bank also.

What do you mean?

tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow.

And with McNamara, because he can invest, they can invest in Turkey, and the projects are economical, they're profitable, because we don't ask Turkey, I know that,

Well, let me say in response to what you said, and I'll go from the specific to the general, if I may.

Well, first, it's very helpful for me to get direct from you your analysis of the problem in Turkey, because it's very foolish to look at a country and say, well, we have an alliance.

Everything is going all right.

We have to say those things when we're speaking.

But those of us who have responsibility have got to look below that facade of alliance and the rest to see whether the understructure is strong.

And that's what you're looking at.

That's what we're looking at.

We have problems, too.

First of all, on each and every side, Al, you give McNamara a call.

You tell him that this is a call in my direction.

And that, well, World Bank, of course, has its independent direction.

That it is my strong conviction that they should look, should lean favorably toward action on the Turkish economy.

First, because I think it's a good, I don't think he's gonna judge economics, but I think it's good economically.

Not because I think the Turkish people are hard workers in their work, but I think they've got a responsible government.

Second, would you, are you going to see Connolly our Secretary of Treasury when you're here?

Well, if you would check to see if Connolly,

uh, could be, uh, if, if, if he could, if we could work it in, and he could spend 15 minutes with, uh, the Prime Minister.

Secretary of Treasury is a very strong man, and he can, he casts our votes, you know, on these things.

And, uh, and fellow Secretary of mine is, uh, certainly on this.

I want, but we will, we will put all of our support behind it.

That's me, that, uh, we're, we, that, we are with you all the way through.

Second, with regard to the economic programs,

You know, you, that is the cooperation.

We should, through John has the ID office, we should be able to be of assistance on the agricultural side.

Here are all these farmers out there.

You've got a client that's like California.

It can grow.

If you can grow poppies, you can grow other things.

We have one of the things we're very good at in this country.

We're not very good at other things, but we're very good at agriculture.

We produce enough to feed ourselves and a lot of the rest of the world and 5% of our population.

and tell Hannah that I want him as a special project to see what we are doing in Turkey and see what we can do to be of assistance if you need to talk to any of your men that you want.

This is John, Director of AID.

The third point is one that you didn't raise, but I want to raise it because I think we should discuss it.

Unfortunately, our Congress is becoming more isolationist.

And it cut our military assistance budget.

And as a result, there was a $40 million cut in Turkish from 140 million to 60.

I want to tell you that I not only fought that cut, but I will also do everything that I can to restore it and to find other ways that we can see that the $100 million level is maintained.

Because the maintenance of your military establishment, apart from its importance to NATO, but in terms of internal stability in Turkey, I think it's terribly important.

If the military become disillusioned, then the radical forces

That doesn't mean you have to go all the way for the military in charge, but here you are trying to turn a decent, honorable, parliamentary democracy when the easy course would be to throw up your hands and say, well, we just set up a dictatorship and off with our heads.

And yet you would not be able to turn back.

But we want you to succeed.

I think it's very important that Turkey survive

And that means that a military assistance program, that's where we can help some.

And we can continue to, because our interests are all too little.

It's not just yours, it's ours too.

And here at the Southern Hinge, economically, certainly where the sending of experts and the rest are concerned, we can be as helpful as we can there.

an international organization of lending bodies like the World Bank, we can be helpful.

Also, I want to be sure that Conley Explorers, with their currents and all that out there, you know, the Export-Import Bank and the rest, anything we can do in the Turkish

and help to work with the Turkish government and the Turkish private enterprise if you want to do.

So we'll follow up there and from the White House.

But I think if you would, you ought to make the same points as I'm sure your foreign ministers do, Rogers and others.

But I already, my mind is made up and we will follow up.

Now the other, and going now from the specific to the general,

We're in a very difficult and dangerous period.

It is true, as I said earlier, but I've been to China and PRC, and I've got to go to Russia here in between.

The world and people who live in our world, what we call the non-communist free world, pants for peace

very naive about it.

And they want to believe that peace is around the corner.

And it would be very easy for people to become euphoric because I visited China and then I visited Russia and we had some agreements or something, I understand.

But I think, I want you to know that I'm, well, I think that your interests are served by the United States.

having a negotiation with the Russians because we will be able to affect them more from the inside than from the outside.

We're here to serve them.

I have no illusions whatever about what the Russians and the Chinese have as their goal and what they do as far as their policy is concerned.

They support revolutionary forces all over the world.

The fact that the United States and China have had an understanding that we will renounce the use of force in international affairs, that's fine.

But they did not renounce the use of, well, they said they will continue to support revolutionary movements.

We're bringing that up in the paper this morning.

You noticed that he looked forward to meeting with Nixon.

But he said we're going to continue to support the revolutionary movements.

Now, therefore,

At a time when the U.S. moves toward negotiations with the Russians, not the Chinese, but particularly with the Russians, for your concern, it is vitally important that we see that our alliance is not weakened simply on the basis of the words, the feeling, and the rest.

Because the alliance is still necessary until they change.

Also, it's vitally important that we recognize the threat of internal subversion all over the free world.

It's interesting to note that you mentioned the problem in Turkey.

You'd actually be a target because you're so close to them.

On the other hand, it's a problem in France.

It's a problem in Germany.

Even the British, they tend, of course, to target Vietnam as a party, and it would not.

Now, how we are able to deal with that in this period of approaching daytime

is the critical question of our time.

On the one hand, it's a very hopeful period.

People say, well, finally the superpowers, the United States and Russia and, in other sense, the United States and the coming superpower, China, the most populous nations, they say are finally talking

negotiating, and they think that's good.

And so that's holding.

On the other hand, it's a very dangerous time because it's much easier to unite the free nations, the non-communist nations, against the fear of the communist powers than it is to keep them together when the fear goes down.

It's the fear of what the Soviet is up to.

goes down, then the support for NATO, the support for a strong internal structure to keep the subversives from taking over goes down.

That's what happens.

I'm aware of this, and obviously you should note that you are, I think it's very important that we recognize it.

I think, too, that I want you to know that in talking to the Russians, as was the case with the Chinese, that you can be absolutely certain that the talks will go forward having in mind this basic understanding that I have just described.

I have no illusions.

I feel if we can have an arms control agreement, that's good.

Because neither of us is from Soviet Union or the United States, so we allow the other to get an advantage over the other.

And in certain other areas, we may have agreements.

But I also realize that no matter how many agreements they sign with us,

that their goal is the same, and that is to, through what Khrushchev described, peaceful means.

He calls it peaceful competition.

But he means competition in the non-competitive realm, not in the cognitive realm.

They don't want any competition there of ideas.

But he says, through peaceful means, take them over.

They want to, and that's what they're trying to do.

We're aware of that.

That doesn't mean that we can say to them, stop it.

We can say it, but they won't stop it.

But it does mean that as we do negotiate with them, we must keep our guard up, and we must strengthen the institutions of free matters, strengthen them, strengthen them economically, strengthen them so that the young people

are not fertile ground for the communist philosophy.

This is a goal we must work toward together.

There are, of course, some other sides of the coin out there.

The Russians have their problems.

They have a problem that their Eastern European

allies, are not comfortable under the Russian domination, not as the people, I'm not speaking to the governments, but whether the Poles or the Romanians or the Czechs or the rest, they're not happy with their communist system, and the Russians know that.

The Russians also have the problem you touched upon very briefly at the onset, and I think the photographers were here.

They're concerned about their big neighbors,

to the east.

And even though they're being made of the east, there's not a significant nuclear power today.

The Soviets aren't concerned about it.

I mean, why else would they object to our, my visit there?

Why does Freshnuff say he's worried about secret deals?

Well,

I suppose that what he is thinking about is that maybe the Soviet Union and the United States should have a good understanding, but China should be out.

But our policy is different.

The policy I see is quite different.

We seek good relations with both China and the United States.

And we see it not because, not for the purpose of dividing the two, but because the joint with one against the other in the long run isn't gonna make any sense.

So we're gonna continue down that road, but with our eyes wide open.

And,

As we continue down this road of seeking better relations with China and the Soviet Union, the cornerstone of our policy must be to continue a close relationship based on real friendship with the free nations.

By what I mean, real friendship, I'm speaking not just in a personal sense, but I'm speaking in the sense that

When one people have a philosophy toward life and toward government that is somewhat similar, then they can be friends in a very different sense from people who have dynamically different philosophies, as was the case with the Soviet Union.

So an agreement that we have with the USSR and with China must be solely based on self-interest.

An agreement that we might have with Turkey could be based on an additional factor.

It must have, of course, a solid foundation of self-interest, as it does.

but also the fact that we share common beliefs and we want to see a world in which our beliefs can survive and prosper and grow.

We don't say that everybody has to be like us.

We don't say that we can change the Russians or the government.

We can't change the Chinese government.

We can't change the Ukrainian government and all the rest.

But we do say that

That from where we sit, that peoples who follow our philosophy, yours and ours, and our European friends in Asia, the whole range of countries around the world, China, Japan,

All the rest, some of them are what we call parliamentary democracies, some may be called , some may be that, but they're all non-communist.

And we believe that that is the better system.

So we, what I'm saying, Mr. Prime Minister, is that it's very important for you to know that one, I,

that my initiatives, and they are somewhat personal initiatives toward China and Russia, will not be taken at the expense of our friends.

They are a matter of necessity, because I think the alternative to taking these initiatives is an inevitable confrontation and conflict which will destroy the world many years from now, probably, but eventually it certainly will.

But as we take these initiatives, I don't want our friends to feel that, ah, we deserved them, and now we look to these big powers that have been our adversaries, and we're going to play their game.

That's what my argument is.

And that's why your visit is, to me, very important.

You represent a country that has been and is a friend, despite very great pressures not to be.

It would be very easy to have for you and your government to sort of say, well, here's all of these unfriendly powers around us, why not China?

But you haven't done that.

And we've had to do propaganda again.

Well, sure.

But at least they say that your salt energy requires it.

So I can assure you that as long as I am in this place, that that's what I will work for.

We're not going to... We know who our friends are at a time that we're talking with our potential adversaries.

Let me say, Mr. President, your visit to China at the time of my visit is also of a different dimension.

Good man.

Master of this process.

And we are very proud of that.

You know, I really like China.

When I heard one morning in the radio, your words about China, at the end of the century, the inheritance of this country will be one billion.

How do you not, how do you ignore this?

I was telling, when I heard the declaration, I said, it's true.

Why?

How can we ignore the existence of this country?

And that idea of a restructuring to recognize this country.

I'm very happy with our recognition.

Good.

And we didn't send ambassadors there.

They pushed us to exchange ambassadors.

And Russian ambassadors, see me in summer, when we were going to the competition in Moscow.

I feel it's exciting.

It has a lot of energy.

It's very important.

I'm trying to keep it nice and in.

I'm trying.

I want to, but I'm weak.

You know that?

I'm trying.

full of my heart with you.

And, personally, I have no opinion, uh, word about your work.

You see why we have you on.

I know.

I'm speaking directly to you, aren't you?

You couldn't leave Turkey at all.

Because, imagine one instance.

Uh, if Turkey escaped by a communist raid, and the military ordered a communist

They seek borders, they get Greece, the communists, Turkish administration.

Partly in the Middle East.

Partly in the Arab countries.

Partly in Poland, France, etc.

All things.

Then Turkey, we have a saying in Turkish, we say, fireball.

Fireball.

Turkey, the English are not the first, I understand.

Well, Sena, I am certain that he has to be a squire.

Oh, I am aware.

Turkey is a firewall behind all these controls.

And during the time he is in power, he controls.

Then the United States couldn't let Turkey go to Palestine.

And Turkey is willing to stay with this side, the Western side, because the moral beliefs is the regime, democratic regime, and secular animosity against the Soviet Union.

There's many reasons to stay with the West.

But if they don't make the necessary

Defense, I say defense not only by military defense, but moral defense, economic defense, social defense against this world.

One day, we can be in the face of a dynamic minority using everything's immoral, illogical means to overthrow the existing regime and government.

and sustained by a neighbouring country, maybe a neighbouring country, neighbouring country, and one day he came to us, before it had come to you.

Today, I am in the government, in the head of the government.

Today, today, my opponent is with me, you know.

country, the professors are with me.

They desire to stay with Mr.

Humanity, etc.

But you must not ignore that there is a very, very, very intensive propaganda and activities, some of the simplest of activities in Turkey.

They are trying to control this existing system in Turkey.

I am fighting, we are fighting against

Our strength and our resources are not enough.

to make counter-espionage and counter-propaganda, etc.

This is why, at the beginning, I said, let us all, allies in nature, all friends, to take about this kind of war, this kind of war, without the gun.

It's a war, a war of rights, a war of rights.

That is a problem, a very important problem, not only for Turkey, for you, for Germany, for France.

This is why I am insisting on this program.

We are doing our best to stop death, to fight against that.

We will do our best for stopping death against that.

But let not alone us against this superstitious.

It's a very important problem of defense, right?

I think defense of nature, defense

will explain Russian, for the first few, the arrangement about the nuclear arms, the salt, etc.

But they will continue to revoke the suppression.

I believe they're always insisting that it is important to change countries by undermining their morals, by undermining their beliefs on the democracy, on the

They are taking grounds in Germany, in France, in Turkey, in all of Turkey, as the command of the Soviet Union.

The Soviet Union.

In Russia.

In the map.

Mr. President, if you permit me to explain about these military questions.

All officers, are they inside about the build-up of Bulgaria?

For example, in Bulgaria, they have divisions, Russian divisions, army divisions.

For example, the tanks have the range of 430 kilometers fuel range.

Our tanks, given by the United States, has 170 kilometers fuel range.

If our tanks start from, for example, Israel towards Russian border, at the

One-third of the roads, they have Israel because they have 170 kilometers range.

Right, right.

But Russia has, for tax, 430 kilometers.

One of the generals told me that the last ten hours for a division, you have to put ten hours for nuclear tanks in a division.

When they saw that, they said,

Why the United States doesn't give us tax?

We can stop the others.

We could do nothing against this.

Russian and Bulgarian and Russian general staff was in Iraq and Syria last month.

They are giving up also Iraq and Syria.

Iraq and Syria.

Then, not only I will suggest to you, to not be, for the models of arms, when one may compare them with others, might not have, must not have less, I want to report, which,

I wonder what they are.

I don't know what the Russian tanks are, Russian equipment, NRs, the relative range, and so forth and so on.

And, uh, incidentally, I want to, I wanted on a consensus paper, uh, have one of the young guys over there say what the factory are and what the military company look like.

They want me to believe what's been said.

I want it.

I want it straight, though.

I want it straight.

Because I heard this before, and I hear you hear this thing, things you've heard, and it's this tank that, this, this tank, uh, we had at midnight.

Mm-hmm.

The older tank is shorter, like the M60 is longer.

Well, let's see what we have, what heritage we have, what kind of equipment we are furnishing.

It needs to be the Russian equipment in terms of, you know, range and all that sort of thing.

Because we can't have it.

We've got the Russian side.

Yeah.

The generals, all the generals.

You see, the United States will not defend Turkey.

It will let the Turkish-European side occupy.

It will let the Turkish-Eastern side occupy by the Russians.

And the United States will use Turkey only as a tool of correlation with Oman.

which were to gain time.

They were very active.

And they gave an example, you see, Doramas.

Doramas is not the last one, but before the last, even before him, before the last one, you see.

He gave an example.

The place, last day, at 84, there was some trouble with the

And 120 of this plane was out of service because they had some trouble.

And now the last stand tall.

And tall is very impressive by all the military air officers.

And when I was going to France, they asked me, our commander asked me,

because the ancestors will not give us the phantom, et cetera, and we couldn't keep the phantoms.

our defense arrived without having the last modern arms.

In our region, this kind of propaganda and counter-propaganda is very, very active.

Then, in Turkey, the communist propaganda is always

making this kind of propaganda by saying that, you see, like he says, thank you, the arms, only the arms is discarded.

Discarded.

Discarded from his own army, you see.

And he doesn't give enough importance, enough attention to you.

You are only...

obedient servant of the United States of the United States of America.

I want to report on this.

Mr. President, I have another subject.

Yes.

It's a science question.

Oh, I understand very briefly.

Sure.

It's science.

We don't want to take that issue or other new solutions.

What is science?

In 1969, 1960, in 1960, decidedly, arrangement, Greece, Turkey, England, separate Greek, separate Territory.

I'm only asking to implement, to respect this arrangement signed by every parties concerned.

Greek government is now more understandable.

Papadopoulos is good.

The desire to push forward the friendly relations between Turkey and Greece are these islands.

Because I know that if Greece and Turkey are in good relations, NATO has the strength to fight them.

And in this region, EGC, it will be very strong force.

Then Cyprus is a small island.

no big importance.

But we have to say fast and honestly.

You see, without looking for a new solution, we have a solution.

In 1960, we created a new state, a new state.

The Greek and Turkish community together, they have a president Greek, a vice-president Turkish.

They have ten ministers' governments, seven Greeks, three Turks.

This kind of administration, the men and Turks and Greeks together.

It was very good to accept, to try, because everywhere in the world, everybody is going for integration now.

And we could try that, this integration.

But these men of Haiti, they are very showy.

They are narrow-minded.

I always said, when Secretary Reuters was visiting Ankara, I asked him, help us to use your treatments, all materials, and to push him to make a compromise, a compromise solution.

Let us finish this program, and then this program will be settled.

We will register.

Russia is trying materials.

Every time materials is difficult to misattain or mis-hunker, it's going to Moscow.

Last time he gave the Czechoslovak arms by the Russian business.

Russia said to Czechoslovakia to sell this arm to Machalovs and they bought this arm.

Russia has always, like in Israel and Egypt, tried to create some headaches for her.

Sure, sure.

But if the United States, England, and other naturalized countries are willing to have a compromise solution, we try together to get this compromise solution, I am sure that Mahadev could resist it.

Now they are difficult to talk with us, with our Asian government.

Papadopoulos, there are very bad relations now.

Papadopoulos passed the designation of Makarios.

And the religious council in Saros took decision for the designation of Makarios.

Makarios is resisting.

We are, we say there is no equation to implement for us.

We are out of this strategy to create science.

It's now in progress, I think.

And then it is, I think it is time now to formulate and to push materials to make a compromise arrangement

with Greece, Turkey, and himself, and face this problem.

I think we don't ask partition, we don't ask annexation, we don't ask anything new.

We only are asking the implementation of agreement signed by Magallanes, that time, the implementation of the Constitution of Syracuse.

That's all for Syracuse.

I have no other thing.

Your influence, your advice will be useful on Macario's attempt, on our attempts also.

We are open to any kind of suggestion to finish this question because it's foolish to continue like this for 10 years, this cyclist problem as a headache on everybody.

No matter of this problem, but one has to look

and to advise a just solution, a logical solution, Michael Rich says that I have to terminate Turkish population, Turkish Americans from their island.

He declared once that the 1959 arrangements are already dead.

I asked to him, Mr. Vice President, please, be my master again, and explain to them my point of view about...

He was very afraid, and he did so.

He did so, and he came back.

He did so.

He created a very good impression in Ankara.

Very good.

You know, we try not to get, with our friends, I know, but I'm sure that our interests are the same here.

I see, I think you're, I'm afraid our friend is this, this, this is a comedy host.

18th century, that's a good description.

Not certainly.

But we must not let the Russians slip in.

And because of our division, I mean division of the church, the Greeks, and all the rest.

If the Russians slip in, and you want to play at parties, he's pretty hard.

He's actually in Cyprus.

35% of the world's communist world. 35%.

And Macabre is gathering with them also.

It's a very, very tricky matter.

They have to stay at the church.

Yes.

I have some...

I put on some dust.

Let me say this then.

We are not fixed on that.

Do you think that Russians, having a strong fleet in the Mediterranean, will one day arise the question of slaves?

Well, you said the question was with the Russians.

One day we'll have a race of Russians that will strike on the streets that aren't else interested.

Well, I think, Mr. Prime Minister, we have to face the fact that the Russians aren't building up their Mediterranean fleet just for the purpose of looking at the beauties of Cairo.

They're building it up in order to develop a naval power center in the whole eastern Mediterranean.

Now, that's one of the reasons why our policy is, of course, first, to maintain our own 6th Fleet at an adequate level, and second, to resist, to the extent that we can, extended Russian influence in the area.

Of course, this gets to the very difficult problem, which, of course, we know you're interested in.

We are the Middle East.

The more the Russians come in to help the Egyptians, the more of a foothold they get in the Middle East.

And so what the Middle East is really about is not about Israel, and it's not about Egypt.

It's about the Mediterranean.

It's about Turkey.

It's about everything, right?

So our position would be, of course,

very strong opposition to this.

We cannot allow Russian domination of the Eastern Mediterranean.

That's just our policy.

And what will happen in the future, we cannot say.

I mean, we can't predict, except I can only tell you what our position is, as I see it.

And we're going to be very strong in that direction.

Because what we live by, as you know,

as you said at the beginning, that have good naval relations but be decisive and taking every measure for defense or independence, territorial integrity, and not

We can't put this Turkish independence, territorial integrity within our implementation of this internal affair.

has been on the list of whatever you, Mr. Prime Minister, communicate, whatever you and your colleagues believe will be helpful, and that's where we put it in.

We work it out.

Because we want this visit to help you.

It helps us, but we want it to help you, too.

And you know the language, and we'll go all the way on that.

You see the garden house, you know, you read word of history.

And there's a space that...

That's the heart of the conflict.

In 1947, Truman ducked his head.

That's what it was about.

I was an artist, a freshman congressman, and I voted for him.

But as a Republican, he was a Democrat, and he was right.

And the Greek-Turkish program, it was the purpose was to save America.

That's one of the great legacies of not only Truman, but Acheson.

I met Hutchison in 1964 for the Cypress program.

We were together in Geneva, finding a solution for the Cypress.

Axel Blank was a good one, but after Johnson changed his, and at this time, we are very nearly to finish this program, but unfortunately still continue.

I had many occasions to be in this program.

I was the author of the Constitution of 1960.

Yeah, yeah.

Because of your international story.

Yes.

I have another thing.

When President Putin visited Ankara, he put to him the question of central, if he will remain central, or maybe more of the central.

He said it depends on the attitude of the United States.

We have the feeling that he is waiting some interest from your side.

We are not sure, Mr. General.

Well, I'm glad to hear that.

You know, that's what I made a due to do.

Well, I'm glad you did, because I'm sure Pluto gets the word, because I have the new Secretary General who's in a ring.

And I told him that in Central, many people feel all alliances are obsolete now.

And the center was obsolete.

It's not.

Because even though it is not what we would call a significant military appliance, it has great symbolic value, very, very important in some

Pakistan, Iran, Turkey, and the rest.

It's a deadline, but it's a line.

And you need that line.

And we support it.

We will continue to.

And Budo must be informed that that's our position, so that he has no illusions, whatever.

Because we feel that way, Mr. Prime Minister.

Any conversations you have with your colleagues in Afghanistan, that part of you can tell them that I said this and that's what I am.

And I would like to get that word across.

I'm saying in Bangladesh, it's a Muslim country, you know.

Yeah.

It's beautiful, that's it.

You advise, you promise, you know.

No, not yet.

But we will.

Oh, yeah.

We will.

On that, we will.

Let me tell you what our policy is.

We're going to do the same thing.

But we have waited until the Indian troops were gone.

And we also waited until, are waiting until Boutro, what do you think he will do at this very point?

Because I suggested, I suggested to Boutro,

I have a question for you, Master.

If you would like to meet Sheikh Muhammad Rahman, we can be an intermediary between you.

And he asked to us where we are thinking to go together, these two leaders.

And she said, in actual, I tend to recognize.

I am now preparing my public opinion to attend.

Yes.

Plus history.

Oh, so she was prepared.

Yes.

We don't want anything to embarrass her.

It has to come.

It's there.

It's a fact.

Our voice is very parallel to yours.

And we are comforting you too.

From one side, good.

But on the other side, Bangladesh is the biggest Muslim country now.

More than the West.

Is that right?

It's not good.

And so poor.

All of Bangladesh is poor, I mean that.

Well, I know that many people criticized the United States for not joining, you know, for trying to resist India.

But if we had not moved, and you, of course, moved in the same parallel direction, we're convinced that India, after knocking off Netflix,

Bangladesh would have gobbled up West Bank.

We just had to stop that.

That's what we felt.

And we at least stopped that.

Because what happened had been a great tragedy.

Because he had his own people who believed in him after his own misdeeds.

That's right.

After the abductor and so forth.

It was too bad.

But having happened, though, it was very important for, not to let it go further, to let in the abuse.

Bangladesh has an excuse.

to finish off their old enemies, the Pakistanis.

Pakistan still survives at least.

It deserves it.

That's just what Guru mentioned.

He's a very evil man.

They must have terrible problems.

It's kind of a little tough.

He said, he's trying to have every one of us together.

It's impossible.

Mr. President, I have one last question.

When did you receive the proposal in April?

They hadn't officially proposed to us, but they have some moves that they have proposed to us.

to renew the old appropriated Turkish-Soviet good-neighborship and non-aggression treaties.

In our mind, it is impossible, being a NATO member, to sign a non-aggression agreement with the state of Aleppo.

We often say to them,

We are members of NATO.

Our decision is to stay there.

They said, yes, yes, we understand that.

But with other members of NATO, we have closer relations.

For example, with France.

For example, with some others.

But for us, it is very dangerous.

We are very close.

For example, they proposed for us to consult each other.

They are making this with Afghanistan, with Iran, and even with France.

They have now the example of France, with France.

On that point, we are very hesitating, and we will not go on this way, to consult with Russia, with me, to take permission each time from them to do something.

Because it's impossible to go to this way.

It's very comfortable for us to say, you know, we are members of NATO.

We have no problem with you.

If you can arrange your problems with all NATO's other leaders, you have to stay right with them and there is no problem with you.

And ask, there are two ways to answer this very question.

I appreciate that, Prime Minister, and I know that pressures will be very great for you to go further, but it seems to me that we must not let the Russians kick off.

One by one.

And we will certainly, in our meeting with the Russians, I made it very clear in preliminary talks with Gromyko when he was here, and Ambassador Brennan, that we will not, we're not going to discuss NATO forces, and that's just not on the agenda.

That our alliance with NATO remains strong and firm and committed.

We are...

I...

But I feel that that position is a very, very solid one.

It'll be difficult to maintain, but I think it's right.

Let me say that as far as our talks are concerned, tonight we will have another chance to talk because we will be sitting together at dinner.

I arranged the table so that you and I will sit together and of course Mrs. Pearson on your right and your wife on my left.

So we can talk and it'll be in any subjects that we can maybe have a chance to go over further things that we didn't get to do in the

I'm very happy this visit took place.

It allowed us to demonstrate our

determination to keep our friends at a time that we're consulting with our adversaries.

And we want you to know that we're in your corner, as we say in our country.

We want to help all we can.

And I go over this.

I've already indicated here.

And to these problems that you've raised,

If, excuse me, if there at the middle of this globe, Turkey stays strong and bright like a star, it would be a point of attraction.

for other countries, for example, Iran, Syria, Iraq.

And Bulgaria itself will be a point of example, an attraction.

That is what goal I am pursuing.

But that's a very, that's a very...

I'm sure that we can go forward and we can... Well, let me say, it isn't now, it isn't simply because of compassion, which is what we have.

But our self-interest, the U.S. self-interest,

is served by a strong, independent, free Turkey.

And it's for that reason that I share your goal.

I'd like to have Turkey be a strong star that shines bright and will attract the others.

That's what we want to do.

And we appreciate the fact that you're trying to do it in a parliamentary way.

The parliamentary system is lesser evil, sir president.

If mankind had a five-letter system having lesser evil, we have to pursue that.

But since 2000 years, mankind had a five-letter system.

And they bought lots of work trying to find that one, sir.

It's not the perfect one.

It's the hardest one.

Much easier to be a dictator, isn't it?

You just sit here and say, do that, do that, do that.

But all we can do is tell the head to do something.

We can follow up on these things.

I'll particularly be sure that the Secretary of Commerce, I want him to be sure he has a word with the Prime Minister.

probably work it out.

But he doesn't.

And Volker, who is in charge of the support company, he's our undersecretary for, he works with the bank.

And he might go all out on that, you know, just to put the arm on the support company.

And with regard to the other things, naturally, I have to follow up with the military side.

To communicate and put in what they want.

We don't say that, but we know we're thinking exactly the same thing.

Thank you.

All right.

Thank you.

Well, I go over and I want to sign a bill.

This is actually the drug bill.

Drug use, drug use.

We have a program for rehabilitation for drug addicts.

So it just happens that this is the 800th Senate.

You can make sure that as I'm checking out the problems, you can...

It's no other solution than banning the characterization of drugs and the opium, and we will fight to smarten this.

Now, the smartening from Iran and eastern countries will be very heavy in Turkey, because we haven't the share of production.

We will do our best for stopping their life, actually, and we hope that they'll be sure.

Well, that's a great talk to us.

Thank you.