Conversation 695-002

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Good.

They started on some of the State Department White House thing.

And it gave me a chance to make a few points about fuel.

And, you know, they said about, why didn't Rogers attend the meetings?

I said, the president has had 78 meetings with heads of government.

78?

Since he came here.

At least.

Since he came into this office.

And he's never, it's always been done exactly the same way.

And I said, as to my reference,

I don't participate in the meetings.

I'm there as a resource.

The president conducts all these meetings alone without knowing.

And therefore, if there's some factual detail, he may turn to me sometime because I've got all the papers in.

And I give him the date and something like that.

But I don't participate in the meetings.

I went on into the showing lines.

I mean, this just launched.

Sure.

Right.

Malaysia started heckling me about Vietnam.

Oh, I love that.

Diggs was very nice.

Bingham, they were all, they all came up.

What was their main interest?

What issue?

Vietnam, China, Mideast.

China was the big issue.

Mideast, Vietnam, only one question.

Frazier, except for Frazier.

What did he want you to do?

Put the bomb in?

No.

Why don't we set a deadline for withdrawal?

Oh, sure.

What did you tell him?

I said we still won't have the negotiations open.

We got a very splendid note from them yesterday, in which they accept meetings.

But they say the other meetings have to be resumed.

We can handle that.

We've skipped it one week.

And they're in trouble.

Every intelligence report we have...

I'll leave you alone for this.

No, no, no, no, no.

I'm just looking at some of them.

I have to ask you about this.

It's the...

Every intelligence report we have is that, you know, like most of these military things, once you've done them, you wonder why nobody ever thought of them.

I'm going to get together these reports we have on the impact of this concentrated farming, which has really been massive.

They've had major casualties.

In the B3 area.

It has had an enormous effect.

Why didn't you look for it?

Well, that's, you know...

I don't understand what's wrong with the Air Force.

You... Well, not the Air Force, the tables.

If somebody's sitting over there, they're just sitting there on the floor like a bunch of clerks.

And they're waiting until they get clear targets.

Hell, you figure if they're concentrated for an attack, they've got to be within that area.

But they've had massive casualties.

Now they're even doing it up in Laos.

It's, after all, amazing.

They have two and a half divisions there.

And we've expected them to take Long Chien in January.

And it's almost April.

If they can hold another six weeks, we've made it again and we'll have some concentrated farming.

I think we have an almost 50-50 chance to do it.

You know, Haig has told you that they've asked you to stay at the Kremlin, which is an honor they've given all the two other foreigners.

Sure, we all stayed there.

They want you for eight days, which I know is a lot.

On the other hand, they, if you are going to Poland, which I've told them we wouldn't do, I think that's one way of having it, is to give them eight days and go to Poland.

Well, let me, the Polish thing should be worked out between you and your friend.

The reason I think we should re-evaluate it, I recognize that it means some trouble.

They want it for some purposes, but they may be underestimating what it can do in serving our own purposes.

In terms of foreign countries we could visit, Polish visit is by far the most important.

It is one that has the most volatile and the most politically powerful

The Italians do not.

The Poles are the block.

Italians do not.

Italians split up a great deal because they've been more assimilated into the community.

The Poles are still, they live in their little geckos still in Philadelphia, New York, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit.

That's a total.

And it's about, in terms of voters, it's an enormous wall.

Now, having said that, actually, we can't do anything.

There's a penny post, like, which is going to hurt us in a foreign policy way.

Now, the Russians, you've just got to feel it out with your brain and see what it is.

Apparently, quite a bit, apparently, the Russians have, according to Haig, have approved the polls.

Well, no.

What we have is that our ambassador to Poland says,

that it is inconceivable to him that the Russians, that they would do it without the Russians, but... Why do you think they're doing it?

Do you think they didn't ask the Russians that?

I can't believe it.

No, no, I believe... No, no, I believe they asked the Russians, Mr. President, but the Russians may have said, go ahead, based on my assurance to them that you would refuse it.

Oh.

You see, why do the Poles want it?

One...

because that regime wants to be popular, and there's no doubt that a visit by you would make them more popular.

That's like Cochesco.

Like Cochesco, yeah, except Cochesco wanted it to be able to be independent of the regime.

This gives them a slight chance to be a little more independent.

But...

But that's why the Poles want it for their own domestic reasons.

But those reasons happen to be basically in our interest.

What worries me a little bit, to be frank, is we told the Chinese I was going to go there at the end of June.

We can't cancel that anymore.

If we go out of Russia to Poland, China, and we have to make some demonstration with NATO, I don't see how you can go there.

I think the way to do it is wrong.

Well, it's wrong that we're willing to do it.

It's if he were willing to skip the Iran trip.

He is the skipper.

If you, if he...

He is to go directly to Domenico, absolutely.

But if you went to...

I will go, but it seems to me that I should go the way that I had in mind.

I'm sorry to say, I think you've got to do the wrong.

We've agreed to that.

I think you should pop in and do the wrong.

Give me a day.

I don't want a three-day visit.

All you grab there is one night or a day to get out.

And then, and then the Pope.

And then back, you see, you've got to go someplace to refuel.

You can't go, you can't buy from Tehran, you know.

But you wouldn't stay overnight in Poland.

Right.

You'd want to stay overnight.

Yeah.

We could use it for the purposes of...

I think we have to put it honestly to the Russians.

First of all, we have to... Well, we can put it this way.

We can say, look, this guy's going to go to terror.

Now, where the hell is he going to stop to refuel?

They can't stop in a NATO country.

They say stop in Ireland or the Azores.

We've done it.

The Azores is a NATO country.

But basically, Ireland has done it.

I've just been to Ireland.

I don't want to do it again.

Obviously, we could go back to Ireland.

I know that's the only way.

I think we should do it if you let me present the case how we would do it with the Nazis.

First, we'd accept the eight days.

Why do they want eight days?

A day more than the Russian, Chinese.

Actually, we might want eight days.

Actually, we have so much to cover there, Mr. President.

And we could then, we'll have an announcement every day.

After the first day.

Well, the first day we don't want much.

And if you go eight days, you could spend a day and a half in Leningrad.

And that's the one time we get some pictures and read exceptions.

No, Baku is what they proposed.

We proposed Tiplis, they proposed Baku.

Baku is the closest to Tehran.

It's the least strain on you.

It's just one overnight, Mr. President.

That's why you got that difference.

And you have to communicate on that.

And I'll tell the exact truth.

I think that's the best.

Yeah, what did you say?

I would say, I'm told, when I talked to you, we had feelings.

We've now had two formal invitations.

To refuse two formal invitations in an election year is more than we can do unless you violently object.

Now, if your government violently objects, I think we have to get them.

We will skip NATO.

Presidents will not go to NATO.

that he will behave with great circumspection in Poland.

How many circumspections?

Excuse me?

Five states.

They're not five states, I'm concerned.

That's right.

Well, I did before.

I think that's the way to do it.

Well, we can tell him that we're not going to go to NATO.

We've already told him that.

Yeah.

I wouldn't go to NATO, not in my life, because I see nothing to be gained from going to NATO.

Well, the way to handle NATO is not just with the sea laws.

When you go to Baku and Tehran, it gives him two and a half days in NATO.

There's nothing to do with Baku.

It's just, I think the thing to do would be to arrive in an afternoon and leave the next morning with just one dinner.

If you do Baku and then Tehran, and then if you wanted to, we could rejoin you in Poland.

No, he doesn't need to rejoin me at all.

He should go to NATO.

God damn it, that's what he's supposed to do.

But the less, if he doesn't rejoin you in Poland, the easier for the Russians, quite frankly.

Sure, he should go.

That's the whole point.

He should...

But he couldn't go to...

He should go in his own right and spend three days consulting or whatever.

But then he couldn't go to Romania or Yugoslavia.

That would be too much for them.

He shouldn't.

What the hell reason is there to go to Romania or Yugoslavia?

We've been there.

And I think the way to handle Poland, given the situation you described,

is to tell the unobtrusive agreement, to say exactly what we're up against, why we want it, but give them the choice of vetoing it.

They won't veto it.

And if they try to veto it, we can get so many points with them.

Well, I'd ask him, I'd say, well, do you know about this?

Oh, well, you see, what I think happened, quite honestly, is that, relying on my assurance, see, when I talked to him, we had only had feelers.

And I told him we were not encouraging the teamers and we were not going to go.

And I said we even put on a trip to Tehran.

To escape.

See, you may think it's a little tricky.

I sold him the Tehran trip.

They wanted us to come right back the way we did it from Peking.

Now, I've sold him the Tehran trip on the ground, but this enabled us to avoid it.

Well, you've got to stop someplace.

In Poland, I would say that the whole purpose of talking would just be basically a, not a two-day, but a 12-hour stop or something like that.

I just go into Poland and spend the night and leave.

You know, not make a... Refueling, they wouldn't accept.

I think it's better to tell them the truth.

What's that?

Refueling, stop in Poland.

Don't call it that.

We're going to spend the night someplace on the way back, which we do have to do.

I'm not going to fly all the way from Tehran to Washington.

You could go from Tehran to Poland.

I think the flight time would be about the same as from Pakistan to Bucharest.

I think it would work about the same.

So you could arrive by noon.

You could do it just like the Bucharest stuff.

Arrive by noon at least, late the afternoon.

If you had left there at four from Warsaw,

You'd get in about seven or eight years.

Well, you can, at any rate, you can schedule the departure before, so you may get six, you'll arrive at nine.

I'm having lunch with him on Friday.

Well, you know, it's an old thing.

I'm having lunch with him on Thursday, but he has a message for me, which he's bringing.

But you are staying at the Kremlin, incidentally, Mr. President, as a guarantee of the success.

Good, good.

That's, Eisenhower wasn't going to stay in the Kremlin except one night.

One night.

Well, we're going to stay all the time.

Yeah.

That they've never done for anybody.

And that, they didn't invite you.

They informed us that you would.

The President will stay at the Kremlin.

That's good.

Now, that's the greatest honor.

Even the Gauls stayed only two nights.

Well, that's... You're going to be here, Mr. Jordan.

You'll get cut, my friend.

I'm not trying to get into this minefield.

Let me make a suggestion.

Let me tell you what my thinking on this strategy is on the Middle East, Mr. President.

My theory is that the Israelis have enough wind of what we are planning

that you will come back and you will be asked, are there any secret deals.

Therefore, what we should do, in my judgment, is to make a secret deal, to make a secret deal.

You see what I mean?

In other words, agree with the Russians that, by an answer, you offered them that I'd go over there after the summit, for example.

We must make the deal.

And we must, and we must brutalize the Israelis.

I think we should do it right after the election, though, and not before the election.

There'll be the goddamnedest brawl.

Could be.

Because I also don't know how you would trigger it before the election without being at the verge of a Middle East war.

Now, let me say this.

The thing, the New York didn't work.

I'm trying to push down the fact that we have to put in a political standpoint, is that there may be a brawl.

But here's a place where I disagree with my children's judgment.

We've checked the situation regarding what we call the Jewish vote.

And we've got about 12%.

Now, that's the top.

We're not going to get any more than that.

And if we get any less than that, it isn't going to make a hell of a lot of difference.

Because 12% of what is basically 6% and so forth in most places is not too important.

Now, the other point that is made is regarding the media.

So when you think of the media, Henry, the media

that is so controlled could really be much worse anyway.

I don't think it's going to change a hell of a lot.

Now, the other side of the coin is that if they want to make a brawl about this, I'm just trying to figure out if they want to make a brawl about this, they're going to find that there are going to be more people on the side that's not getting the United States involved in the Middle East conflict than there are going to be on the other side.

But that's just my point, Mr. President.

My feeling is the way to brutalize the Israelis...

I want to brutalize them.

No, but the way to brutalize them... No, they must be brutalized.

I have no question about it.

But the way to brutalize them is to get a war scare started in the Middle East.

And then you side against them.

But I think you're better off without a war scare than in an election year.

And secondly, I think we get more out of the Russians by dangling it in front of them than by delivering it.

I would like to have something going on.

I look at the Israeli thing as a cold-blooded amphitrap.

When do you talk to the president about that?

Oh, I've been talking to him all night.

I know that.

In these terms.

In these terms?

You see, with Gromitko, we had the discussion, you know, he said, now we're going to talk about... Mr. President, you can make the deal at the summit.

What I would like to get done at the summit is the interim agreement.

Then we can publicize it.

Can you do that?

Yes.

That's all we need.

See, my worry is, Mr. President, if you... How can you make an interim agreement?

The Israelis won't even agree to whether we'll necessarily get that.

They'll do it for us.

You think they will?

Yeah.

The interim, they'll do.

My wife and I make the final in September because...

I wanted to give you the chance of giving it back to Rogers, and you made that clear that you didn't want to do it.

How can we give it back to him if we're going to screw it up?

The State Department has a different view of this.

My view of the Middle East has nothing to do with Israel or the Arabs.

And I say, oh, a lot to do with Russia and the United States.

And the State does not understand it that way.

That's the reason they can't.

My worry is that if you make a secret... Everything we do there has to do with Russia and the United States.

I'm trying to protect you, Mr. President.

If you make an agreement at this summit and you come back,

The Israelis are trying.

They're going to have a lot of these senators ask you, is there a secret agreement?

But if there is one, and you say no...

I do not want an opportunity to be missed while we're in this office to do something about the Mideast.

In my judgment, Mr. President, before the election, the deal has to be made.

The closer we can get it to the election, the better off you are.

And keep dangling it in front of the Russians.

And I feel very tough

to, uh, to Rapin.

And, uh, but what I would like to do is I'd like to throw...

I understand.

...sand into, to breathe it into Rapin's eyes.

I'd like to tell Rapin, since you carry on like this, I'm out of it.

And that's a... You want me to talk to Roger?

Oh, I, he won't talk to Roger.

I've got to have the damn thing handled over in Spain.

We can't do that because they don't want the other game.

But the Israelis have to be handled with exceptional trickiness because their intelligence is so good.

I know.

And also, they know the guys with the balls.

Well, to some extent they have it by the balls, but I think it's in our interest to move on them as early in the new term as you can so that it's done by the time we have to get the Russians out of the Middle East.

That's the predominant

That's right.

And we've got to get into the Middle East.

We've got to be in, other than in Israel, less than one.

Well, once they are out, we are in a better position to go in.

We have a chance, for example.

We've got to get into the UAR.

We've got to get in a stronger position than Algeria.

We've got to get, you know, we already kind of... Well, Algeria, I think they're in a good position, but UAR, they have to get in.

It's...

But we'll leave the Polish thing for you.

You see, we put Rodgers off, but he feels now that he'd go.

Yeah, but he kind of stalled on that, too.

All right.

Anyway, we'll wait.

I've seen the freedom today for 10 minutes.

He's got a message.

I don't know what it is.

I would prefer not to raise Poland in a 10-minute meeting.

But don't hurry.

I'm seeing him for lunch on Thursday.

Don't hurry, don't hurry.

And with a few drinks I can.

Listen, listen, Whitby, there is no damn hurry about the Poland.

We understand.

But I'd like to accept the eight days under those conditions if we are going to raise the Poland.

Well, look, the eight days doesn't bother me if it...

It won't be like China, but in Russia I can't evaluate the public impact.

In Russia you will have an announcement to make at the end of every day after the first day.

There'll be less of the sightseeing.

Thank God.

Well, that's what they want you to do.

I don't want to do any sightseeing.

Leningrad.

You might want to do it in Leningrad.

It's a day's interlude between tough sessions.

Otherwise, it gets...

Very little sightseeing.

Yeah.

Well, there's much to see in Moscow, but if you considered Leningrad, and my proposal...

They want you to go to the palace there, and have some garden.

My proposal would be, Mr. President, that I stay in Moscow while you go to Leningrad.

We could clear up some of the things.

For Christ's sakes, I'm already told there's nobody going to go with me anymore.

If I do go sightseeing, nobody's going to go with me.

Not Rogers, not the staff.

Unless we want Rogers out of Moscow, I guess.

Well, we'll find a way to go up there from around New York City.

But we could arrange two separate sites, Andrew.

Right.

We could get them to take him off some other place.

I don't think we need more than an hour of that, Paul.

Do you have any time?

On this thing, Jordan, the hell of it is, the big deal they're planning to make is with Egypt.

So I think we should just listen to what he's got to say.

The Israelis have already rejected this plan.

Well, we have to listen very sympathetically.

Very sympathetically.

But without committing ourselves to it, because we've got the Egyptian front instead of we've got ourselves.

Right.

I guess we should give him some of this.

Oh, yes.

I just want to get it.

And this line isn't all that unreasonable.

The fact that the line is quite reasonable.

Yeah, all right.

One of us can wait till after.

No, wait.

You know, there's something to be said from holding on for a while in the sense that you may want a crisis.

If there's a problem, then the best thing we could end is a bubbling possible war in the Middle East.

That's the one infallible thing

that all the polls show is when presidents go up is when the country is in international trouble.

I wondered what progress you've made on our thinking on the .

My feeling, basically, is that I haven't gotten there with him yet.

It's the one guy who's on the outside.

He's not going out yet.

One guy I wanted to talk to, but... Who have you talked to?

Is that we should go through the...

I have not talked to Mitchell yet, but I don't think Mitchell's view is...

Mitchell, I know what Mitchell's view is going to be.

I think we're going to decide what we want to do and then sell Mitchell on it.

I don't think we can go and ask Mitchell what he thinks we ought to do.

I agree, I agree.

You've got to wait a while.

Because Mitchell will just say right through it, he's too far in.

Basically, the position of going, of seeing what happens on Wednesday, I don't think there's much hope.

But now I hope that Scott is going to do it.

Well, Scott isn't, but maybe he's going to do the rest of it.

And it depends on what Lon Eastman decides to take really more than anything else.

If that works, which I don't think it will, but there's at least an agenda.

Not just one blowing it out of the water before Wednesday, which is tomorrow, until we know what's going to happen Wednesday.

If, oh, I didn't expect to do it by this thing, we've got to get the plan going.

The plan's got to be ready.

We've got to get a hold of PR and get everybody here lined up and controlled and so forth and so on and so on.

not speak with too many voices, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

There's a hell of a lot of things we can get done right now.

Analyze it from every standpoint.

Yeah.

We haven't yet done that, so, you know.

Well, I mean, we've not done too much of it.

Well, on the tactics, yes, but not in terms of what you want to have.

We've now got to let it be a plan.

A plan is dependent on events, that's right.

We've got to go, but we have to have a contingency policy of where we're going to go.

We've got to figure the way that we gain the upper hand, and the only way that we can, ever, is to take the offensive.

And the only offensive we can take is for Clint East to throw down the gun.

Who agrees with that?

A lot.

Chuck agrees, as you know, but now his judgment is not.

McGregor basically agrees now.

Wally Johnson basically agrees, and that's really all that's going on.

Well, I think maybe PR does.

All right.

Do you think you'd better buy a gun?

Yeah.

But I think we probably should.

In a way, it's better.

Yeah.

But at Morris, you can't have Morris.

It's totally confidential, but I wouldn't go beyond that.

I wouldn't, for example, I wouldn't go to Ziegler Klein.

I'm not sure this is going to help us in any way.

Morris might make some difference.

Scott, I'm going to put it to him this morning.

Well, Helen Thomas said, don't you think the American people have the right to know about this?

And he really brought it from somewhere.

He ticked off about 15 things, and he said the American people have a right to know whether or not four United States senators can hold up the activities of the Judiciary Committee for their own personal gain, whether or not the Democratic Party can manipulate the United States Senate for their own personal gain.

They have a right to know whether or not Juan J.

Factor or something gave contributed money to the Democratic Party.

They have a right to know whether or not Muskie is going to return the $2,500 contribution from ITT back to ITT because he's been some pie-stuckers.

Then he went through a whole list of things, and he said, I've been around a long time.

He said, you know, I'm not up for re-election.

He said, I guess people have to double-talk and make fools out of themselves sometime when they're running for office.

But he said, I turned this whole affair jackassery.

And he said, I repeat that.

I turned the whole affair jackassery.

And he gave us that.

Oh, yeah.

I'm sure you're going to use this.

Because he really had a part.

He talked about Humphrey double-talking and Muskie said he wasn't aware of the facts, but he probably voted against him.

He said, Kleine's name is not even a factor here.

It's just, you know, Brian's for him.

But he was very, very hard.

He didn't, of course, he was disgusting.

Then they hit the economy, well, and the legislative impasse hit.

Yeah, well, I'll talk to him later.

One thing, I do think you ought to get a hold of.

I think that you ought to control very, very, very, very, what our top White House staff will do in terms of television.

I couldn't believe it.

I was put in the name of Christ as a matter of .

This has nothing to do with respect or love or admiration or rest.

Pete is not smart political.

He never has been smart political.

Now nobody sees Mark Lafayette on his own.

Huh?

And nobody saw him when he was obtuse politically.

He really is just as Murray is obtuse when he's obtuse.

But Peter's as smart as when he's on political vacation.

He's worth a damn.

But God damn it.

They should not have allowed him into that bear trap.

So all you do is give him a chance to chop the liver of Jesus out of him.

Now, did anybody ask?

Did he ask anybody?

The Lord in the name of Christ.

Is that all right?

This is incomprehensible.

Of course, he got conned into it.

He did it supposedly to be used after the... after the IG&T thing, and then the Post ran a feature on it, so... Why didn't he see the Post then?

Why didn't the Christ didn't see anybody from the Post?

He was gonna put sin in people.

I tried to push him off.

Of course.

He's got the quits in people.

I told you, God damn, he's got a low profile.

He didn't get the... Yeah, he did.

I thought you were just telling him, yeah, I'm trying to get out.

God damn, he can't get himself all involved in this thing, Bob.

Did you see the point?

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well, it's tough on him.

It's hard to do.

The only other thing you can do is let it go.

Well, you know, you reach the noose under the spine, and you've got to make sure you get the full load up there.

There are people in Washington that is, in a sense, they point out that if anyone, not deciding on the one side, but is involved in the national server, who is basically not a friend to us, or the R and Scam, and all the R and Scam, and the industry permeated the Washington press card in August 3rd.

And we're not handling it well, that's the problem.

I don't know what we can do the better, but it's, we can't, we're no use to kid ourselves about it.

I wondered if you could just talk to Colin about it.

I did a little bit this morning, but I didn't get into much, well, he has, he says basically the same thing he just said, that he says, I don't know what the facts are, and see if you can second guess it, something like this, because...

You know, these things break step by step, and then you look back and see what's wrong, and he said, I don't think it's been handled well.

From our side.

And he said, you've ended up with a confused situation.

Dita did her business, you know.

She did write it, she did write it.

I can't eat it, and it looked very bad.

And they're having us, and...

Joe Kraft, interestingly enough, has probably the most perceptive analysis of this that anybody has seen in the paper this morning, where he makes the point that there's something wrong here.

That we were in the right, but we weren't sure we were in the right, or at least that's the way it appeared, and that therefore we ran around

step by step covering things up and engaging in tactical maneuvers that ended up in the long haul making us worse off than we were to begin with and that's where we would have been better to have come out and said hell yes we talked to IT&T like we talked to everybody else instead of trying to pretend we did.

Well it's like I told you about the Timmons thing.

God damn it, Timmons can't deny that he talked to them.

I bet you if he talked to them, he talked to them.

And uh, you know what I mean.

The only thing wrong here is a certain amount of naivete on the part of the White House staff and the way they handle it.

I think we have to take a bath now.

Well, the White House staff, the Justice Department, and IT&P, the combination of freedom of competence on something is pretty goddamn bad, isn't it?

Of course, the assumption of a crack is that the White House is in control of it, which we weren't.

Justice moved around a lot.

Well, sure we have, but justice moved out on it and got us in a lot of shit before we had a chance even to decide what we were going to do.

Then we got people, because there's a problem.

We didn't have, and crack says that, we didn't have enough confidence in our own people, in a sense.

Because when you were pushing way back in the first few days to move forward, our people wouldn't.

Colson and all of them, because they kept finding more things.

And they were afraid of the case, what we were going to turn out.

Well, I know they were afraid of the leasing thing and the rest of it.

But as it turned out, I had just let the whole goddamn thing come out and say, hell yes.

I'm not so sure that isn't the best thing to do.

And you dump it all at once, it's all over now.

Well, I think at the present time, you've got to cut your losses.

That's the whole point now.

I don't know how the hell we're going to do it.

And you gotta get the goddamn story.

Well, of course, it'd be gone for a week over Easter.

But you've got a terrible problem with the media here.

Don't you agree?

Yeah, I know Tolson thought he had a big thing on us.

Actually, he got a half-assed little treatment on one network.

He took the shit out of us and the other two.

Yes, sir.

good and that's another danger and that's one of the troubles with this well if you've got a guy from the east there are too many other things he ought to be doing he's working 19 hours a day on this damn thing i know i know because he loves all that i know you know we're going to have to go where we ought to be presenting our case

Of course, that's one of the reasons you create these hassles is to get the opposition worrying about that instead of taking their, playing with their things.

Yeah.

Well, Fleming is a superb target point.

Rich.

Eric, Eric, he's got every goddamn, and, you know, sort of insensitive to, you know, these other things, and goddammit, he's, he's just terrific.

We have a problem there.

We've just got to realize that we're friendly as we all are with them.

What the hell were they talking about this morning?

They were sending bench and climb studies to California, but the name of Christ is there.

He just pulled that out.

Both bench and climb have been in California, but they're in California all the time.

No, they were not sent to California.

Because of the lights are, unfortunately.

i must say i'll have a very interesting thing like what issues they have corrected they will tell you to get back in because we can get back to the good days with rfk and a terrible terrible article on the poor servicemen in vietnam i mean their own drugs prostitutes and so forth and so on what the hell they're not getting killed but the magazine is really

I guess, right?

It's that brand he's been in, because I said the Jewish media went to Christ.

Now, what is life in the Jewish media?

Now, listen to that.

If you kill that, or are going to kill that, if there's any necessity to it, that postal thing, is it too late?

The whole of this will.

I don't know about that.

They have been talking about, you know, Hoag Lewis wants to save the magazines and the subsidies.

Now, without letting him know it, let him appear, we're for it, but see that the Congress kills it, you know, at this point.

We just say before the election, it comes up to Hoag, but it looks like it's something to say.

But the interest of the readers, I guess, you understand.

Now, my real interest is in others.

The interest is to kill the likes of life, others that are ready to go under.

You see my wife?

Yeah.

We're just not about to help, but this thing is perfect.

I'm sure it gets tough.

Let's get them working on it.

You better call Hogan and say it's going to look awful bad if we do it before the election.

We'll just visit a way through the election.

Well, I don't know.

Maybe you've got to get in control, too, Bob.

We'll see if you...

You're still in the school that you do.

And we make points by spending time.

That's all I'm saying.

I agree.

If you know what you're doing, you do, yeah.

The study's going to write a column every week.

You can aim the column.

Yeah.

Okay.

Try.

When you don't, you get a bad one.

When you do, you also get some bad ones.

But you won't get any good ones if you don't.

Try.

If it doesn't matter.

But I think you don't need to take all that if you want to.

I guess you're right.

That's right.

I don't think you do any good as far as, uh, you know, you don't have to change sides.

No.

Well, I've asked Victor for the, who are Frank and I, I haven't given him the list yet.

So then we can start playing the music.

Would it cut anything else going on for the good of the audience?

Yeah, we wanted to talk about this text.

and they should do, you know, the scheme that they're starting to build up on that and his feeling that we need to, he's got some ideas now.

He just wants to chat about some of these things.

He doesn't have a solution yet and he doesn't want to push, he doesn't want a decision.

He just wants to talk about the questions, see what your thinking is, what you get some guidance on, what you want him to do.

He's got his people working on some,

some ideas, and he says, I don't want tax reform.

That's the problem.

They are all technicians, and they keep pointing to, yeah, I'm over the big analysis, and that's not what I want.

What I want is a political thing.

His information is that we've got to make the point that there ain't going to be any tax reform anymore.

The Republicans have done that.

We reformed the taxes in 54.

We reformed the taxes in 69.

We cut $20 billion out of your taxes, and that isn't the problem.

These people aren't talking about tax reform.

They're talking about spending.

They don't want to cut your taxes.

They want to get more money for the government to spend.

And if that's the side of the matter, he understands there isn't much we can do to cut spending.

But he argues that we can talk about cutting spending.

There he is.

One thing, if you would, I hadn't thought it was done, but I see it when I can't follow these things.

I heard it was out of town today.

I found today, to my amazement, that they had not called in a group of the Southerners to brief them on the busing thing.

You're going down there?

I was sitting in front of Senators.

Yeah.

That's right.

And now the guys, I guess it's too late, but you might get a hold of McGregor and see if they can get a group in the leading.

You know, the guys that I've had with Barrett, they're very black.

And I asked McGregor, I mentioned that they would draw up a call from the leadership.

And I said, well, of course, that ought to be done.

But I wonder if all of our people are maybe a little tired or something and not really reacting to this.

I mean, I thought they had a plan.

I thought they did.

I thought the Southerners did.

And a congressman and senator, you're supposed to be preaching to the Southerners particularly as to how this thing affects them.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Well, you followed a great report.

Sure.

And also with her earlier.

But, oh, he's gone.

Martin, Martin, somebody's here.

I guess you're right.

The thing to do is to wait on mention.

There's much you can do.

I don't know who else you can talk to.

You've got to get a judgment on the damn thing.

You've got to talk to McGregor, Colson.

Gregor and Wally Johnson are the two that are working it on a hill and know where the boats are, what the problems are, and what the likelihood is.

Well, I think we can talk to Colin about it.

I didn't raise it with Colin.

He didn't know whether he wanted to or not.

I almost did, then I decided whether or not.

Yeah.

Well, do you like to go for the big play?

I'm sorry.

He's meeting us down here with the bucks.

He's got five.

He's going to put a hero.

Yeah.

This is just, he'd get, he'd get Buss, Rumsfeld, and Fullerton, all the others.

And he said, now the very first, he'd rather have the Metro, and that was, he said, now I don't think that this is being reprimanded, but if you try something, I don't know, talk you out of it either.

And we're going to try that.

That's right.

So we can't lose anything.

That has to be done now.

This is the partnership.

Thank you very much, sir.

Yeah, I don't know how far that penetrates.

It isn't so much aura of scandal, it's aura of big businesses involved.

That's what Connolly feels.

Brings back that rapport of big business.

That's where you can't have funding now from a goddamn oil leak.

And then the tax thing gets back into it too.

Taxes are...

Well, don't underestimate the scandal.

We don't want to get that hung around our necks, do we?

You know what I mean?

Just static.

And I do think we've been somewhat derelict here and sad.

We couldn't control the world in such a situation.

Mike, well, maybe he doesn't have any understanding at all.

You know, he's had that crazy, that goddamn Jew from, you know, from Miami, you know, that did the, called him out, you know.

You remember that one?

I told you about it.

Oh, yes, I told you about the plane.

I told you it was President Obama that, you know, that, you know, that, you know,

The guy who was doing Friends of the President.

Oh, yeah, the President and all that sort of thing.

Well, for Christ's sake, you know, he shouldn't get into such a non-bonding country.

It's bad news.

You know what I mean?

I also didn't feel like that was the case for any of them.

You see, there's a lot of...

This is