Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 698 › Conversation 698-008
Nixon, Kissinger & Sanchez on Vietnam War and Moscow Summit
Thursday, March 30, 1972 · 5:18 PM–5:30 PM ET · Oval Office
AI Summary
President Nixon and Henry Kissinger met to discuss logistics and strategic communications for upcoming foreign diplomatic missions, including a stopover in Warsaw during an upcoming Soviet trip and potential visits to Iran. The conversation centered on managing public expectations for the Moscow summit and the importance of securing prime-time television coverage for Kissinger’s media appearances. Additionally, the President reviewed the political optics of the Vietnam War, emphasizing a desire to adopt a firmer stance on the conflict as part of his broader foreign policy and 1972 campaign strategy.
Audio
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This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 02:01:37 into the tape and ends around 02:13:15.
Transcript (AI-generated)
This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.
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· Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.
2:01:49I think we should anyway do that.
2:01:57And then the only way they knew how to end it is to mock all the sacrifices they imposed on the American people.
2:02:06If we have to do that, I'll be prepared to do that.
2:02:10I intend to be awfully rough on the war in any event.
2:02:14We're going to say they got us in, we got out.
2:02:19Because in any event, you'll have all the gravity.
2:02:24In order to be able to say in the negotiations, because if they think we're talking, we've got to be a little, I want to be a little bit more of what's going on.
2:03:58And then the only way they knew how to end it is to mock all the sacrifices they imposed on the American people.
2:04:15Oh, if we have to do that, I'll be prepared to do that.
2:04:20And I said, I intend to be awfully rough on the war in any event.
2:04:23We're going to sit and we got them out.
2:04:27Because in any event, you'll have all the draftees.
2:07:15Now the network CBS has come back and they want to do a full hour in prime time.
2:07:22They only give half an hour on Sunday initially.
2:07:27We have to give them an answer on Thursday.
2:07:31We'll see what they offer.
2:07:42They've now opened a Thursday night from 8 to 9.
2:07:45Thursday from 8 to 9.
2:07:47They work on Thursdays and Sundays from 10.30 to 11.
2:07:49Yeah, I know, which is out of the question.
2:07:52You don't have as many Sundays from 10.30 to 11 as they've got in George, Buffalo, and Shaw, California at 7 to 8.
2:07:57I don't know, just 90 of them.
2:08:09That's right.
2:08:10We're going to go on.
2:08:11It's a question of getting the best time, the best view.
2:08:13The biggest audience, because once you have done it, you understand the next one.
2:08:21So if you're going to do it, it's got to be the best time, the best time of the week, the most good.
2:08:33Absolutely.
2:08:33That's the only view, but it'll be a hell of a time to do it.
2:08:44What is the situation, uh, the way this, uh, mosque, uh... Oh, nothing.
2:08:50Rather, they force all the instructors and people...
2:08:53He'll let us know on Monday, and then we'll notify the court that we'll accept it.
2:08:57Well, that makes it an easy way to get back to... That makes it an easy way.
2:09:05In terms of the physical exertion, it's actually easier that way.
2:09:13You can go from Baku to Iran.
2:09:15That's easy.
2:09:16That's two hours.
2:09:17You do that Tuesday morning.
2:09:19Then I think you should leave Iran in time for a late afternoon arrival in Warsaw so that you can get the crowds out of the offices, say 5 o'clock, arriving in Warsaw.
2:09:34Any time you want to arrive in Warsaw, it doesn't make any difference.
2:09:38Then leave the next afternoon.
2:09:41You leave Wausau around 4 or 5.
2:09:43In the afternoon, you get in here about 9.
2:09:45You'll get a tremendous reception.
2:09:52You would think so.
2:09:52I don't know.
2:09:53Poles would be scared of that, knowing what happened before.
2:10:00You weren't.
2:10:01The only thing that really approached that reception was when the Spanishman, of course, was the visual size.
2:10:08but to what it really only approached in terms of emotion with Romania.
2:10:13And boy, I've been through receptions of that one in Warsaw.
2:10:16It was the dumbest thing for me.
2:10:18I was much better than you ever saw.
2:10:19But it won't be that emotional anymore because...
2:10:22But it's been a long time.
2:10:24It's been a long time and they've become much more disillusioned to their prospects.
2:10:28That's right.
2:10:30But nobody can, they can't control their population.
2:10:32If they could, they would never... We don't have to think about other spaces.
2:10:35I think that the foals, fairly apart from anything else, even their prospects are not good.
2:10:43We want to see a president of the United States.
2:10:45That's right.
2:10:45No one has governed the polls in 300 years.
2:10:49And they couldn't get these guys away from the streets.
2:10:54And they want it.
2:10:56That government wants you there to solidify themselves with their people.
2:11:01For that, they've got to get their people on the streets.
2:11:04I could be wrong, but if you don't have a tremendous reception in Poland, you're going to have two tremendous receptions.
2:11:14You'll have a tremendous one in Tehran, you'll have a big one in Warsaw.
2:11:20And my instinct tells me there are somewhere along the line... One thing he told me was...
2:11:35that, you know, we are having a little problem about space in the Kremlin.
2:11:38And he said, for God's sake, don't turn the Kremlin down.
2:11:43It's the biggest honor the president could pay you.
2:11:48And he said, above all, the Russian people, that's for the Russian people, it means that there's a solid basis for our relationship and it's a tremendous signal to our people.
2:12:03to have the president and the president.
2:12:06And I think that's right.
2:12:14We're not always complete.
2:12:16But I think that if I may make a suggestion, I think we should play it very cool about the time.
2:12:23We should give the impression that not much is going to happen, that we're going to have a lot of results.
2:12:31because there's too many evil stuff tricking out.
2:12:34But I know no one really expects much out of the Moscow Senate, and that's great.
2:12:39We've got the things split up over the bureaucracy in such a way.
2:12:42That's good.
2:12:46Well, I think we can play the line that there are a number of things we're going to discuss this afternoon, but we're pretty far apart on this trip, isn't it?
2:12:53We're pretty far apart?
2:12:55Yeah.
2:12:55It's going beautifully down in Seoul.
2:12:57Is it?
2:12:58Yeah.
2:12:59That move don't get Buddy the Smith on the cell phone.
2:13:04Well, the Russians aren't right.
2:13:07No, I told the prison again today.
NARA Description
On March 30, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, unknown person(s), and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:18 pm to 5:30 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 698-008 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 698-8
Date: March 30, 1972
Time: 5:18 pm - 5:30 pm
Location: Oval Office
The President met with Henry A. Kissinger; the conversation began in progress.
Vietnam
-Democrats
-Negotiations
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 2m 41s ]
An unknown man entered at an unknown time after 5:18 pm.
Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 5:18 pm.
The unknown man and Sanchez left at an unknown time before 5:30 pm.
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
**********************************************************************
Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]
-Interview with Kissinger
-Timing
-Audience
-Campared to George Putnam's show
Soviet trip
-Poland
-Stopover
-Possible itinerary
-Baku to Iran
-Iran to Warsaw
-Arrival ceremony
-Crowds
-Departure time
-Washington, D.C.
-Poland
-Stopover
-Public reception
-Campared to Spain
-Compared to Romania
-The President’s reception in Warsaw while Vice President
-Poles
-Reaction to the President's visit
-Iran
-Reception
-Warsaw reception
-Soviet reaction
-Kissinger's meeting with Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
-Accommodations
-Kremlin
-Leonid I. Brezhnev
-Soviet reaction
-Public expectations for Moscow summit
-Strategic Arms Limitations Talks [SALT]
-Gerard C. Smith
-Kissinger's talk with Dobyrnin
Middle East
-Interim settlement
-Final settlement
-Kissinger's schedule
-Trips
-Middle East
-The People's Republic of China [PRC]
-Soviet Union
-1972 campaign
-Television
-Foreign policy
-PRC
-Timing
-Democratic National Convention
European trip
-William P. Rogers
-Announcement
-Kissinger's forthcoming trip to Japan
-Announcement
-Kissinger's forthcoming meeting with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
Kissinger left at 5:30 pm.Also recorded on March 30, 1972
- 698-003 4:40 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:40 pm to 4:41 pm.
- 698-004 4:42 PM · 21 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Phillip V. Sanchez, George P. Shultz, Alexander P. Butterfield, White House photographer, Rose Mary Woods, Stephen B. Bull, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:42 pm to 5:03 pm.
- 698-005 5:03 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:03 pm and 5:07 pm.
- 698-006 5:03 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:03 pm and 5:07 pm.
- 698-007 5:07 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:07 pm to 5:11 pm.
- 698-009 5:32 PM · 39 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, unknown person(s), Stephen B. Bull, Charles W. Colson, Rose Mary Woods, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:32 pm to 6:11 pm.
- 698-010 6:11 PM · 1 min — Stephen B. Bull, Alexander P. Butterfield, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 6:11 pm and 6:13 pm.
- 022-054 6:13 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 6:13 pm and 7:16 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 698-008, March 30, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/698-008 (accessed October 12, 2026).