Conversation 699-007

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I was going to raise that with you today.

Okay, fine.

He raised it with me last night.

Well, I know.

That's why I...

He's getting you to do it.

Right.

But I won't trust

I've talked to Cal, and even though they're moving into prime time, I read Henry's background and what he did when I checked off the grid.

But it would do us a bit of good.

The point is, he's only going to give a show of Henry as being what he is, an armistice-capable, thoughtful man.

Now, what we need is to...

I don't know if you see too much on that show of any chance.

No, I wouldn't.

I wouldn't do it with you guys like that.

Well, if you want to really see how individuals on the staff and the cabinet, I mean, our social individual family, we do a job.

I mean, the elevator will probably be the best goddamn job I've ever had.

I mean, she just knocked them dead.

She's on the done show.

And I chose Holtman, et cetera, et cetera.

You, and Sapphire, and Moore, and...

People like that look at it, because you have a feeling of, I mean, you can do it, others can't, but there's a total natural quality to it, and it bubbles up with a few things.

You see, the thing is that in Henry's case, his total difference, I mean, he's obsessed with substance, and he can't get it, I mean, you know, he really can't get away with it, either.

It's very hard for him to, you know what I mean?

He doesn't, he isn't comfortable with it.

So, I don't think that he's going to do anything but raise holy hell with the Savior, which is the other side.

You see, well, let me put it this way.

After

that after the republicans, after we return from Moscow, and after we liberate Russia, I think we ought to put Henry on, everybody on, and we don't give one teacher's damn how much time we break.

We've got to use everybody.

But I think that before that, I just don't believe that it will do anything but cause a hell of a lot of trouble, without an amenity.

If we're going to cause an amenity, I would do it.

I don't know whether you could do it if anybody had any influence to get that better off.

I mean, I don't think the crowd around here, I mean, all those people, you know, this Burley group, I mean, all of the best people, you know,

So I don't have any idea of how to do it.

But she does.

It's the best.

I mean, she has a total naturalness.

And she slips in the flusses in ways that you just don't know what it is.

And I think the whole staff ought to see it, mainly as a means of knowing.

First of all, it's also television.

There's a totally natural quality.

That's why I'm telling everybody they ought to go see Ingrid Bergman, so that they can all walk better.

I mean, Julie is, I don't know whether you have one.

I had a Christmas show, but they didn't have much of her on, as much as they might have.

But in this distance, here she's on with a great control kind of show.

And believe me,

If I ever talked about it, it would go on with kids like that very often.

Of course, she did the same thing on the Christmas show.

She completely outdid who was trying to run on the corner.

Right.

Well, it made her look like a weapon carrier.

I'm sure it is an actress.

And Julia, Julia, Patricia has the same capability, but Julia, there's an enormous point.

You should have, like the, you know, they asked her about China when she talked about the assumptions, but she gets in the personal things.

Oh, I remember, I remember.

I told Doron what convinced me that the Henry thing would not be helpful is a rereading, which I did this the other day, mainly because of the substance, which is really superb, of the transcript of what he did with the China press corps.

It was great.

It was great in the substance, the philosophy and so forth.

As a matter of fact, the first speech that I made to Joe Ryan,

in my first speech, my first conversation, reflected many of those things.

But in terms of being helpful to the president, it's silly, absolutely silly.

The point is that we don't have to argue about the substance of China.

All that matters, Rob, about China is how the president and how the business next conduct themselves.

uh... program

I don't want Jim Henry to get the idea or anything that they did, that I want Stafford to go on and praise the president.

I wouldn't act like my stuff is horrible.

But now and then, you've got to throw that little something that the president had something to do with this goddamn policy.

It's the way Scali does it, which is, he's not the top substance, but he's also the other end.

It works the other end, and that's what you have to do.

You can't just go on and spend the, and Henry couldn't, it'd be ludicrous if he went on and spent the whole time

Henry is a valueless personality, I think.

There's no question about that.

It's the timing, it's when it's used.

And I don't think that the second week of April, at this point in the China and the Soviet Union trip, for Henry to go on and

to discuss your policy.

If he would, he would refer to the president.

I'm sure he's sensitive enough to know that.

Oh, sure.

He's a secure lawyer, loyal soldier.

Right.

But I do not think they don't know.

See, those guys like to stand and call and ask the same questions as those guys do.

And there is one man who can hold God in his hands.

Yeah, I understand this.

He's on a great story.

He is an out-of-health brother.

Knock one goddamn head.

They don't want to hear it.

He won't get those solid halls of Jesus back if he ever reads it for any press conference.

Jesus Christ.

I mean, all they were doing was throwing up balls so they'd make him look good.

And all they did was throw me balls so they'd make me look bad.

I don't mind that.

It's just, well, I won't be bad if you come out looking better than I am.

Right?

Because, well, mainly because, you know, they're going to forget.

Mainly because the kind of guys that would ask me a friendly question aren't smart.

Like Nick Temish and the rest just aren't that smart.

Whereas the kind of guys that would ask me a friendly question, like Peter Lister, are far smarter.

And they know how to do it.

That's the difference.

I know this game just like the back of my hand.

So, you're fighting.

But my concern is, first, and I think I just don't think that you ought to pull it from hard and calm.

And I don't think we should take an hour of prime time to just say, I think Henry should be serviced after Moscow.

After Moscow.

At some other point, because he would give a good impression that he would be.

Well, in my opinion.

May I say that you should be happy with the Democratic Convention.

Now we're going to have a real dead spot there.

We may want to go back to Moscow, may then, but I don't want to have the Democratic Convention have Henry as an issue.

You see my point?

It'll be a hell of a big thing when he goes on and we can make it bigger by that time.

I just don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know whether it's really worth going on at that point.

But Henry should get partisan after the Democratic Convention and not until then.

But he's got to be partisan and he goes on.

Now, by God, if he isn't partisan, it ain't worth our time.

Do you agree?

Well, it depends on how, you know, when you mean by partisan, I mean partisan.

So that's what it is.

You're going to be an advocate.

That's right.

An advocate.

And that means it's not there to explain the policy, this is the thing that brought it.

Well, it's really the problem that the White House staff on the Socialist side, all heads, and I understand, I mean, they ask anybody, the domestic council staff, anybody, and your staff, about something, and they have to explain the goddamn policy.

Well, these guys are very nice.

I wouldn't explain it too much.

I'll just answer another question.

The line is very good at that.

It's a fusion.

There's a number of exceptions to those.

Good point.

Henry, did I do that for a comedy?

Comedy's the one.

Oh, it's the absolute master.

Yeah, comedy's the one.

Let's look at this week, just as a result of our finally getting off our asses in this area.

Look what comedy did.

He nominated all three members, but at least he was the lead on one night.

And last night, held on two of them.

The follow-up came and said, what do you think?

The prices start to dwindle.

Well, at least it looks like he can also fix what people think.

Now, when meat prices go up 3%, it doesn't make a tinker's damn bit of difference.

It really doesn't make any difference.

But they think they're soaring.

And it does, I mean.

But they think they're soaring.

Did you realize that we're really talking about here?

It's whether your meat prices over the year, the real differences are going to be 3 or 4% higher or about where they are.

You know, everybody assumes that prices will go up 3, so is it going to go up 6?

Now, how many family budgets is that really going to take?

Not a hell of a lot.

Every meat prices, to my knowledge, have always been too high.

I worked in the grocery store in the Depression.

I remember those poor families coming.

They only had 30 bucks a month.

to spend on a grocery bill.

That was a big grocery bill in those days.

And 30 bucks a month.

Because they earned the money.

So they had 30 bucks a month.

And they'd shop around and go, damn it.

When hamburger was 18 cents a pound, it made a big difference as to whether it was that or 20 cents a pound.

And I can tell in the house where I sold that money.

See what I mean?

And that's the way it all is.

But it's a psychology.

But Conley goes on here and does it better.

But it...

I just think around, in this instance, if you have to take these slings and arrows, nine, day after day out here with these sons of bitches.

But I just don't think that Henry would go on and out with the anarchist kind of thing.

That's the answer.

Have you talked to him?

Have you thought about it?

Yeah.

Well, I wish he could get it, but then it would be decided that he'd be told.

He has to.

He doesn't raise it with me again.

He raised it with me.

Well, he didn't insist.

He did insist, but he told me that Colbert told him he'd had prime time on Thursday night, 9 to 10 or something like that.

I said, would you let me look into it?

And it was a question, well, you should.

But I didn't know whether he had been raised yet.

I had called and made him run.

He did.

And the reason I raised it here is because Henry just came into my office and said he had talked to you about it and that he had to talk to me this afternoon about it because he understood that I had turned it off and that was not what the general plan was.

So I figured I'd say...

I thought for 30 seconds.

He just raised it, you know, and I can always...

I said, well, I'm going to just check it.

But I think we should turn it off.

But now, let's get a game plan.

How do we turn it off?

In what way?

Well, my view is that I think Bob tells him that it would be far more effective and better for him to do it after the Moscow.

Don't mention Rogers.

I don't say that it's going to raise trouble for all of the state.

I am.

I'm just telling you.

The main reason is that, Henry, you're a big bullet.

And we want to shoot this bullet when we have the maximum impact.

It'll have greater impact after Moscow rather than before.

Well, can we give them a date now?

No.

Tell them we're going to let these networks barge with each other.

Henry, tell them we make it.

You are all free.

We might.

Well, quite.

Quite so.

Yeah, agreed.

It's also something that wants to be discussed now.

It isn't our interest to discuss.

I mean, that's right.

They'll say, what do you think of the offensive that's coming in Vietnam?

What about Taiwan?

What about the Mideast?

What's going to happen with the summit?

That's what Calvin's talking about.

Is the summit a balance of power in the Middle East?

No, that's murder.

What the hell do we gain from talking about any of those, let alone all of them?

Nothing.

See, when we originally discussed this, we were talking about that.

Henry sitting down was talking about time.

And how long, how long it went.

Okay, we've moved out of that to an hour prime time, April the 20th now, from 8 to 9 o'clock on CBS.

Talking about the power of triangular.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

to give the, what, basically a little of the behind-the-scenes feelings of what the hell happened.

But if he goes on to speak in defense of American foreign policy on television, he is preempting Rogers and he's preempting President.

That's something else.

He cannot do it.

And especially nobody should go on stating their foreign policy before you go to the Senate.

That's exactly right.

I'll see that here.

Because they may, you know, ask him about salt and ask about these things.

It's just not the right timing.

No, no.

And also, for the first time, he's totally delighted to turn down my call.

It's just not the best.

It's just the way that I feel about these things.

Did you hear he told you about Campo?

No.

He said he died.

No.

Almost.

I put him in that fire.

Yeah, I know that.

But NBC's pulled him out.

Today's his last day.

They told him about a week ago that he would be taken out of the White House.

And they offered him what they called the key position to head up the major radio broadcasts, like the Space Shot.

Radio.

And Kaplow sent out with you to Dead End, but apparently they didn't even discuss it with him.

And they had sold their radio broadcast to an insurance company, with Kaplow as the key personality in it.

And they had less money.

Not less money.

It might be more.

But it's less prestige.

Sure it is.

Because he's known to...

And they invited Kaplow to go out on a cruise with this insurance company, with a group of executives, having sold them the program with Kaplow heading it up, and they hadn't told Kaplow.

So Kaplow got wind of all of this and said, you know.

Is he going to quit?

Yeah, I don't know.

His future with NBC is very much up in the air.

Well, we lose one of the few who try to call it straight.

It's really kind of sad.

It's totally sad that this guy has covered you for 15 years.

And a decent man.

Basically a role that he's given himself when he's on the black men.

But on the other hand, Herb Catlow is an honest man.

And so they throw him out.

Christ is heard.

Is there anybody left here that is against yourself today?

Poor Floyd.

But Gerald is not bad.

And Gil.

Gerald goes up and down.

Gil's, well, Gerald isn't back.

Gerald hasn't been back a little.

Gil does.

But I mean, now and then, they go, well, Gerald really isn't back.

Whatever.

Gil's a bad shot.

But look at CBS.

CBS, who do you know?

I love that movie.

That's where you can play it.

He's just sickening.

He's got a little smile on his face.

Of course, the other guy, Brad, Brad is back.

Is that it?

No.

It's too bad.

But I was hoping maybe they had taken him off.

Who do you have for NBC now?

John Jackson?

No, they're going to.

I think we'll be able to work with Barry Valeriani quite well.

He's here.

I remember him.

I once went to one of his... See, his wife is very pro.

I once went to an affair at the Press Club for him many years ago, and you'll remember that.

I was damn nice to him, too.

His wife is a supporter.

Strokes?

I know her.

And Valeriani is not... Is that so?

Well, he's not here.

Let me forget it.

The whole deal is good.

All right, Valeriani, maybe you can work with him.

You can work with him.

I don't think he can do anything terrifying to you.

Just keep him stabilized.

It's the only... See, what we do... Rather, the only thing he can do is kind of beat him over the head with a club occasionally.

Does it help?

Yeah, I do that all the time.

I'll tell you a thing that frightened the hell out of him was the press club thing, where he took me on, you know, the humorous way, and the 1,500 people turned on him.

And he, well, he didn't take it in a particularly unofficious way, was he?

I want to know what the hell happened.

He ripped Ziegler in very short case.

Just like he did in here.

He didn't take it from this thing.

He never did.

But he was worse at this thing.

He was really bad.

I wasn't there, but I got all reports.

It was a while.

He was really bad at everybody there.

What he did was make a hero out of Ron Ziegler.

What he hired to do was castrate him.

Well, I was introducing the three.

This was at the radio and television correspondence dinner.

Right.

The chief justice was there.

There were 1,500 people there, and I had to introduce the three correspondents, the like, who went to China, Kaplow, Jarrell, and Wagner.

And I said, we have fun.

Jarrell was super.

and rather got up and took some what he thought was humorous swipes at me.

Like, you know, he asked Ron, you said earlier,

You remarked that one of the difficult things was to explain to the people, to the leaders of China what a press secretary does, and then he turned around.

Why do you like to ask you if you were serious?

Because just how in the hell would you know?

Well, it was an attempt to be funny, you see, on his part, and I was used to that.

To be funny, too.

Everybody laughed.

So it went, no.

They turned on us.

So then he went on and he was talking about the fact that my suits are not cut right, and just that type of thing.

And I can't even remember all of it, but it was that type of attempt at healing.

to be in my briefings with Sharon Kramer, because some of the guys quoted some of the things.

It was cortes, cheap, like it was in here.

Cracking us on that capital, apparently, did a highly great intellectual, very humorous spiel.

It was very well received.

In fact, they considered it a real triumph.

Well, when Riley was doing this, it didn't bother me, you know, because the point was to be just.

But I came off of that saying,

And afterwards, people not only came up to me, but I got reports of people in the cocktail parties and everything else just cutting the hell out of Rabbit for taking Zingler on, you know.

Rather than, and this is how we got into this, Rather called me to apologize profusely, and he called Nancy.

to my wife, Nancy, to apologize that she wasn't even there.

So that gets to the point that Bradley, the only reason he did that was because, not that he thought I was upset about it, but that a lot of other people, and everyone in Washington was there, had turned against him in this particular, he's a whore who wants to please the customer.

He's also a totally self-serving guy with no moral principles at all, and no honesty, no basic honesty.

Kaplow is a very honest guy.

Kaplow would never, never intentionally say anything on the air that wasn't true.

Or, you know, one thing about Kaplow is that he had made every effort to check out.

Very unusual thing.

He even went around the world, and I went around in 1933, and I went around for Pepsi-Cola.

NBC sent him.

Why the hell did they send him?

He's covered you.

Why the hell did they send him?

I don't know.

But he was very comfortable.

He's covered you for a long time.

Correct.

He's been everywhere.

Dirty damn trick to pull a guy off right on the eve of your re-election.

This is the final political next in line.

Would anybody take that environment job?

No.

He wouldn't want to work in my house.

Well, I don't know.

He wouldn't take the apartment or the whole job.

We talked, Ron and I talked a little about bringing him in here, but we can't do that.

Well, that doesn't matter.

We can always use good people.

He is on our side, and I don't think now we should bring anybody in who's just honest, which he is.

We've got to bring people in who are committed.

Scali is basically on our side, believes our way.

That's right.

Well, Capo probably wants you to win, too.

But he doesn't want somebody else to win.

That's right.

But Capo, philosophically, will disagree with many of your positions.

Well, I didn't say why he would be in the environment, though.

He's not here.

He's never covered it.

He doesn't care about it.

That's good.

He's smart enough to realize it doesn't matter.

You don't have to put on something you don't care about.

Well, I mean, he's Tiberius.

Thank God that they can view on him.

He's on the picture.

Right.

He's showing the presence for you there.

Well, the crowd wasn't pressed all the time.

That's the other thing.

This wasn't.

See, it wasn't.

There's more non-press.

Cabinet members and.

And who is going to do the, you think the Chief Justice is or?

Well, I talked to Edgar Poe yesterday.

Yeah, I forgot.

The Chief Justice has turned it down.

And Poe said, he thought, well, he said he got a very nice note from the Chief Justice.

saying that if he could possibly be there, he would be, but his schedule would be different and so forth.

But Poe told me, he said, Ron, if the Chief Justice could get a call from the White House.

At Bill Rogers' time.

He was very close to him.

He said he would push him on it.

It was Bill Rogers' idea.

He would call the President.

Bill knows instead that if I were personally appreciated, if he would call the Chief Justice and urge him to talk, okay?

And Justice said that it would be a, it would be kind of important, right?

Bill will call, and Bill is very close to him personally, and believes that he ought to do this, so.

Okay.

And Bill can call for the President.

I don't think anybody here should call.

Yeah.

Bill, I guess, calls him the President.

Very grateful in trying to do this.

Not as representative of the administration, but representing, basically, the government.

Because the government should be represented, not an administration.

The Chief Justice is above it all.

Everybody above it all.

Well, the alternative is a ranking person as Carl Hubbard, huh?

I'll keep saying that.

I'll see where you respond, Carl.

And Bill understands.

Bill's got the point.

It was his idea to have Berger do it to begin with.

So he knows all the reasons.

And Bill can hear that.

Tom can also tell Bill.

He can't do it.

Bill's got to say that.

Tom, the president doesn't want to ask you to do it, Bill.

But obviously if Berger doesn't, the president will talk to him.

And he's honest to get you to do it.

The president doesn't want to ask you to do it because he thinks it's going to be an unpleasant experience and just think we ought to do it.

It's Berger who will you call Berger and ask him to do it.

Because otherwise you're going to have to.

But he knows that too.

Okay.

Very good.

And they'll do anything to get out of doing it.

But didn't you think that by going on the offensive a bit, I mean, everything started giving me a kick in the ass?

Oh, that's right.

And the rest, huh?

Yeah.

That's why they're swiveling.

Thank you for staying on the play board.

That's a little message, though.

Huh?

Jesus Christ, Jesus.

He's a great man.

Okay.

He said that he was talking about ordering to come to the council meeting.

But he gave several very colorful reasons why he didn't want it.

I mean, he called one day.

He called Woodcock.

and he's got a big, he's got 25 million dollars in wood carvings.

Immediately.

Oh hell, I don't know if it's in, it's in, it's in, it's on fire, and he says, he says, we've got, and he says, we've got a market that's never been made on wood carvings.

I asked him, he told me, I should have come to work.

And he, he said, okay, he says, now Leonard, let me tell you something, you tell him he has

I'm a good father.

That don't mean anything.

I mean, I think half of them are homosexuals.

They must be a little dry.

I don't know what it is.

Are they washed out?

They're washed out.

I guess I don't see the good business people.

They're probably in the Midwest and the South and so forth.

Well, you see these guys who had to work their way up through all that.

Well, they practiced it just as much to begin to smell that way.

What are you really doing?

That's about it.

One thing we've got to decide on finally, and maybe you just want to write it off, is the question of a Mrs. Nixon TV special on China.

She has been given, all her contact on it has been from Connie.

Connie plays everything negatively, and it's come through as a negative.

If we're going to do one, we've got to commit to it now and get going on it.

Connie says, Mrs. Nixon's argument is that she'll have nothing new to say except obvious generalities and superficial comments.

Scali feels that we can do a hell of a lot better.

It's a way to get some of our exclusive film footage on network TV, get some mileage out of it, and take highlights of her various tours and have her comment on some of the things that she saw and did.

They can do, if they want to, a voiceover where she can record it without going on camera.

In other words, they can run a film and she can just talk into a microphone in the White House, laid over silent footage.

It can be scripted for each other.

And we get a big re-rating and we can do it.

If we can't say yes, then we've got to drop it.

And it's a question of whether we want to re-raise it or not.

It's one good opportunity to reopen China in the public mind in the most favorable light.

With no danger of getting into foreign policy.

Half hour.

It would be a half hour prime time.

And then it would be aired for the latter part of April.

Take your photos and put it together.

And it's just a question of whether we want to re-open it with her or not.

She doesn't like scouting, you said?

No.

She can't get Scali to talk to her?

No, no, no.

She doesn't like scouting.

That may be part of the problem.

She would talk to Zigger, but I mean, he could reopen it with her, but not Scali.

And he couldn't do the program with her, Bob.

Well, he wouldn't do the program.

The concept would be for her to do the narration.

The format was to take highlights of her various tours, add any footage that we have that we'd like to get on the air, and have her voice over the segments.

She'd sit in the White House and do it on audio tape, which we laid over the silent footage.

She'd know what she was going to do.

We can script it so she can just sit and read it.

She has an excellent voice.

They can re-record it a thousand times.

It is the live interview.

She is on camera, except in Chinese.

I see that if she would do it on that basis, but I wouldn't have her do it.

I wouldn't have her do the whole narration, just parts of it.

And the material could be given to her.

And the arrangement could be that she would sit down with no technicians and stuff around, you know, just a few people that were required, tape-recorded people she trusts.

And I think she can look at the film and take the time to do it.

I think if they were here, she can just talk as she goes if she wants to.

But she might not feel comfortable to do it.

Or someone can script it and give her a couple different options on what to do and what could be done.

This is a problem.

Her schedule is conning.

I didn't say that.

You've got to do something about conning her, Joe.

You know, we know about that.

I don't know what the hell you can do about it.

I can't do anything.

You've got to get Connie out of scheduling.

But anyway, I didn't do that.

Only by working.

No, it's very hard.

Because she finds a way in on everything we get around.

We work.

We do this.

Why is she so goddamn negative?

I don't know.

What the hell?

She's very protective.

Yeah, because she's very protective.

And I think we should have taken her to China.

Maybe she did.

Oh, God, no.

Don't even consider that.

That's where we really get into a problem.

Mrs. Nixon is so superb on the wire, so you get somebody protecting her.

Well, she doesn't like anybody.

It's funny, but she's very...

Her taking the hairdresser was just fine.

She's got a gal to take care of her personal needs for her.

That she does, she should have.

But she sure doesn't.

The guys who... She works much better with the guys, too.

She...

I mean, she uses Brennan to get her.

Yeah, I always have Darcy.

Well, she should.

She does a damn good job.

And I think she likes Mike Sharp.

There's also a book around that.

I have Darcy around, and I don't think she knows who kind of made all that.

Right, the press guy.

And with the press, she doesn't know we have a number like that around.

So it works hard.

Yeah.

We don't.

She thinks she's just moving with the press, which is the way she ought to be.

I think it's a good idea to do... Why don't you take a stab at her with her?

Because you want to... You should run and talk to Julie before the weekend.

You could call her on the phone.

Or I could call Julie.

Let me talk to Julie.

You could talk to Julie.

Julie won't come out until tomorrow, you see.

I know.

If you might talk to Julie instead of me, that would be a great opportunity.

She deserves it.

And it's a way that she can do a show without having to be on a Q&A.

And this film is new to people.

People love to see it.

In fact, they love to see Dream Runs and Grinding of the Moon, right?

And we have some other film.

Yeah, and this would be a half hour of condensing the highlights.

See, people have to say...

They could take the film and... You see, they could take the film of my... Oh, just the...

They could get the bank book with the... Well, the bank book and how we practiced in the White House before.

They also have... Our group has films...

me in the guest house.

Nobody has seen this before.

This is where the president works and where we usually sit to talk about things.

Even the line, you know, of course the president, she could say it the way she would say it, but the president of course spent most of his time in the meetings and, you know, very important.

You could get that type of thing in and show film.

She said it first, she laughed and said, oh yes, you know, he was tied up all the time.

Right, all the time.

But I had the chance to get out and see them making the Peking duck here in the kitchen.

What do you think of how the Kennedys took one of them, not two?

Jackie Kennedy did only two things when she was in the White House.

She went to Paris and spoke French, and she had a party at Mount Vernon, Friday would come.

Those were the only two events, believe me, that she did of any significance.

But they talked about and parlayed that for three years.

It's fantastic.

I've got a real lot to lose this time.

This is worth it.

It's still going to be an opportunity, I think, in my past, particularly if she can do it on this basis, because we have...

of what she said and how she said it, she would be totally comfortable.

And she really had, in the narrating type thing, I think she has an excellent voice.

What would you do?

You'd do two things.

One, you would go, you would call Julie maybe and say, you think it's a good idea.

I'll call Julie and ask her to take a stab at setting it up.

She's got another this weekend.

Okay.

Ron has talked about it.

He's very high on the arrangement.

We'll have total control, total entity, make it very easy, and we ought to do it for the good of the cause.

And it's worth it.

Like she's going to California next week to accept a bus to San Clemente.

This is worth a hundred times more than that.

This may reach 10 million people.

Or 80.

What is it?

It's a hell of a lot.

It is reached 10 million people.

Well, 10 million people is a lot of people.

Let's face it.

It's a big, big thing.

And it's so easy for her to do.

She doesn't have to get made up.

She doesn't even have to put on anything.

She can do it in her backdrop.

But they probably would want, I'm sure, as an opener, is a brief picture of her, which is fine.

Not necessarily.

They'd want to have that picture.

We are delighted to have an opportunity to see you.

Would you tell us something about your trip to China?

And then go so far.

And she said, well, I've got some fiddle here.

And then from there on, his voice over.

Jesus Christ, you could be a slammeroo.

Well, I don't know.

I understand.

I'm not trying to question him.

I must have.

I must have given an impression.

I never intended.

I was trying.

No, I think he was giving the impression that he wanted to give.

He wants to do it, doesn't he?

I think so.

And he is persistent on that stuff.

Well, he's persistent because Paul was persistent.

What would Paul do to reach him in a social function?

Right in common.

Well, I'd like to just carry them home.

That's what I'd like to do.

And I'd say, Henry, we're going to get a much bigger opportunity after Moscow.

Just say that.

Now, actually, I do think we'll want to use them at that point.

I don't think there's any problem.

No, not that.

After Moscow.

We'll use every one.

And we've got to really work on them on how to pitch it and try to get them to do it.

Well, I wrote you a memorandum of a few things.

I've given him all that stuff.

He'll do something.

I don't know.

Keep the pressure on him.

He'll force himself to.

Well, he knows we're sitting watching him.

They're going to come in the next morning and say I did it wrong.

He won't like that.

But he's good.

He's good.

You see, we don't need to build Henry up.

Henry is right on the pinnacle now.

He may not realize that he is.

So what the hell is going on?

He doesn't even give that to help us.

I mean, I would select him.

But if he gets built up too much, it could hurt for other reasons.

Because it'll reflect on who's running the farm, or what they're going to say, right?

Who's running it?

Henry Kissinger?

Is he not going to?

After Oskar, we can say a few things.

Is that your view, dear sir?

I mean, that's about 100, isn't it?

What else?

Are they waiting for anything?

No, no, no, sir.

I was thinking, Bob, on those editors, how many are going to be that reception?

It's pretty big.

I'm not sure.

Could we do a limit of 300?

No.

They're wise, I suppose.

I was thinking that maybe we ought to have Q&A, in other words, and editors press conference.

You know what I mean?

We have a reason then to run it.

to run a Q&A, even though we've already done one.

We can't do more than one White House thing in a month, in my view.

Not at this point.

All right, at any time, probably.

Let me make it a little later.

But the editors, while I'll ask some questions, the panel is a disaster.

Not a disaster, but it isn't good.

But editors popping up in the East Room.

I mean, just have the editors of the country in an issue with that.

Now, what you could do, I'm just thinking out loud in a moment,

I could walk in and say, well, I have a conference down there.

And we'd have, like, us, the correspondents, and then the editors in America gets to ask questions.

And the three other of them sitting there are editors.

And so they come in and pop up with their questions.

And it's, I think, an hour.

What is the date, Tony?

See, I will be doing the press conference on the 13th.

But I come right home at 12 o'clock.

When is Tuesday the day that I should build a record?

So you follow a week later and then, yeah, you do this on TV?

Yes, sir.

Oh, yes.

This is the time.

In other words, last time, remember, we did the editors and didn't do it on TV.

He said we wanted to.

We were probably wrong because it wasn't very good.

But it would have been better to have it on TV than not have it on TV.

Wouldn't you agree?

I think so.

Because this gets around to the other point.

Bob and I discussed about what we do want to do with regard to these office press conferences, TV press conferences, and the rest.

Now, Bob is hard against any more office conferences.

After watching the television news coverage of the last office press conference, there's no question about the fact that if you're not before the cameras, your message does not get out.

I mean,

It gets over in the written press.

The television coverage, we've really heard.

from an excellent conference, which was covered well in the end.

Well, basically, which had, the point is, it had a lot of...

It was distinguished from most of those East Group things.

It had enormous, hardly, at least seven good stories.

So, unfortunately, we ended up with about close to one minute, 30 minutes, 45, and two minutes and 10 on one, but you would just... We got it done by walking out there on one subject.

So, I think...

Bob's point that television is the way to go.

I still hold the view that I'm not as concerned about doing it before film cameras as I think Bob is.

Because I think, in other words, if you would have filmed the whole conference in here or out there, there's nothing that they could have excerpted

Out of that, that would have been negative.

Sure is.

What?

Well, they wouldn't do that.

Well, they could do that with tape, too.

President Nixon backed against the wall today on the defense it refused to answer seven questions in his press conference.

Of course they could do that.

First, he was asked ding-ding.

I'm not going to answer that.

Secondly, he was asked ding-ding.

Zegers covered that.

Third, he's asked ding-ding.

I already answered that.

Fourth, he was asked ding-ding.

Well, your leadership... Hey, Mike.

Hey, Mike.

That's the problem.

Well, your point is... Why do it out there when I could do it in the East?

What do you mean by that?

For what reason, I disagree, do you want to say, is there any reason for us to have, because really it's press deciding as much as anything else, any more office press conferences?

After the coverage last night, I think it's, I'd have to agree.

You mean last time?

Last time, I'd have to agree.

Do you think so?

Because I guess the writing press handled it fine, but we just did not get the impact that

And the reason is the TV was so jealous of writing press that, it isn't the other way around, that TV, unless you get a bill, they say, well, screw you.

Oh, there's another disadvantage to being honest, which is that it is always, as it must be, called for last minute.

Therefore, it is always called an impromptu press conference or a surprise press conference or something.

And it sounds as if

It just doesn't have the authenticity that a presidential press conference should have.

And I think you should go the other way.

I think you should go in the goddamn east room.

You should announce the thing.

The press room has the same disadvantage, right?

You're bounced in there.

They say, uh, hastily summoned press congress this afternoon.

You're so surprised.

You get into the...

It isn't as presidential as it ought to be.

The president ought to know when he's going to have a press conference.

He ought to say something.

He ought to have it.

Because what the hell is the use of a recording out there, a half an hour of question answering, and then have it put on the news, the questions they want to put on.

And you're only going to get maybe five.

You might get five.

I'd say five.

If you went off of that, you could have gotten five.

I might have gotten five out of that.

But so you get five minutes and reach, because you're on separate networks, you reach a gross cumulative audience of maybe 25 million.

Or go on and get a half hour, reaching a cumulative audience of 50 million.

I sent you a limo testimony before the FCC on the 315 ruling.

And what does he say?

He says that he testified that a press conference, a full televised press conference,

Well, but it's based upon when there is an election and when there is an announcement of candidacy.

In other words, up until the Democratic seat, up until the Democratic primary, Ashbrook would be eligible for it.

Not the primaries.

I'll just raise the point.

I don't care.

I don't believe myself that we're going to lose anything by having them put the Democrat on the networks.

I mean, that's basically a debate.

That's fine.

That'll be a debate.

But see how they handle it.

The president has a great advantage.

He appears in a better place, doesn't he?

Or don't you agree?

We have a whole series of great candidates.

First of all, you'll do a better job at that.

Secondly, you appear in a better place.

Thirdly, they have a terrible dilemma on how they put who on where.

Yep.

Until the convention, that's true.

After the convention, they'll have somebody to start.

Then they have a candidate.

But then also, they have a problem with the third and fourth party candidates.

If they pass 315, then this problem doesn't, I mean, if they suspend 315, then this, what I'm talking about, doesn't apply anyway.

I mean, they can do what they want.

They don't have to give people time.

All right, come back to my feelings about editors.

I have a feeling that getting in there and shaking hands with the editors is at best of them.

It's been no problem most of the hour and a half of my time, crying and shaking hands with the White House policemen and the fire chiefs and the

The rest, at a church service for an hour and a half, why not with the nation's editors?

I think that's great.

I'm all for it.

On the other hand, why not just get to, having got a news conference the week before, I'll have, you know, I will have to double-study, and then I can shape up again.

I walk in, maybe live up to a half hour.

Would you live up to a half hour with the editors?

They need an hour or so.

Maybe that's too damn long.

But again, use the 7.30 to 8.30 time.

Or frankly, screw the news and the networks.

Go on and say it.

What's your feeling about the editors?

I like the editors.

I like it.

I mean, they certainly are going to have a feeling that they've been in on something.

I'd want to take a closer look at the group of people who are coming now.

Well, you know who they are.

They're not the best.

Who are they?

They are.

But on the other hand, when I say they're not the best, God damn it, some guy, sometimes we've seen editors...

That fellow Whitehall from Missouri and the North Dakota editor and the rest, they're goddamn good, some of those guys.

There's a little fella down there in Orange County, Florida, you know.

Some of those guys have written awfully good editorials and they're much more perceptive and much more fair to the Whitehall's press corps.

He'd ask what the country would be interested in rather than what the Whitehall's press corps would be interested in.

I like the editor side of it.

The question is, how could you get down to 300 damage?

March 150.

I wouldn't, you wouldn't allow them now.

I would not allow the White House Correspondents in on this.

No, well, they'd have to watch it on the water.

No, but I mean, this is something I'm giving.

No, I agree.

I'm giving a reception for the editors of the company, and I'll answer questions.

And it's their meeting, right?

Right.

Do you see if they agree to kill me?

Oh, she sheds my coin.

Now the other thing is to walk down to their hotel room.

That's better to do here.

That's what Mike did.

He'd write a line and say, well, Christ, you're going to have to leave out too many people.

But could you do it on the first come, first serve thing?

Well, you could just tell them to follow.

Follow the reception for everybody.

And wise.

And they're wise.

And as a matter of fact, you could have them all downstairs if they wanted.

They could watch it on television and come up for a session.

Would you have it for a half hour?

Not an hour.

Did you just do a half hour?

Half an hour.

Half hour is long enough, isn't it?

Yeah.

How about going 45?

Think this.

From the bullet point,

It's going to look like another press conference.

Why do you have, if you haven't had a press conference in eight, nine months, and then you have two in a row, two in two weeks?

I guess you're right.

Why did you do that?

Well, all right, now, how about doing it with the editors?

This press doesn't know the difference.

I mean, the public doesn't know the difference.

I don't think the press yet.

Well, let's take a minute.

Now, the other possibility, frankly, is to still do Katrina.

But not...

I mean, just do a Q&A with the 300, but without television.

It's no strain.

Now, the purpose of that, of course, would be basically to affect the editors, you know, and they go back, they've seen the president answer questions.

At least the last one had some beneficial effect in that respect.

Do you think we're going to be able to do that?

What I would suggest to you is go to their hotel or the State Department or a hotel or something where they can get them all in, instead of cutting them down.

Do it there and then have them come over here for a reception afterwards.

Yeah, you're right.

Do them all.

If you're going to display it to the people that are there, you get two advantages out of that, too.

You affect the others, but you also generate news.

You don't have the television thing.

But you do generate news.

Yeah, exactly.

In other words, if we had done a TV appearance, a televised press conference last week, then I would say we ought to do it on television.

Well, I'm sure this is a discussion show.

If it were time for the next TV press conference, then I'd say this would be two weeks in a row.

And you've got Canada in between, which is going to have a fair amount of coverage.

I think the 18th.

No, daytime.

Daytime.

What?

Daytime?

Oh, hell yes.

Why not?

Everybody's got a pent-up table that's long.

Put it on the tennis court.

Put it on the tennis court and put a little fence around it like they did at the gym there.

Sure.

And we'll put a grandstand up.

Yeah.

Just play it like tennis.

And it'll win.

Well, they can put a win thing up.

There'll be a win.

There is a win.

I love it.

No, I think they have a hell of a time offside.

The way they play, the way it wouldn't matter.

The damn ball goes so fast.

Well, even if it wouldn't matter, just the fact.

The very fact that they're demonstration match.

But they play doubles.

That thing will get a hell of a play, too.

As it were.

Singles match and a doubles match.

It would be a lot better to have a mixed doubles.

Well, you have American and Chinese and American and Chinese, so you don't have an American defeated on a White House demonstrate.

You can't avoid that guy being American defeated.

Well, but that's different.

Well, what if I just had a Chinese team play a demonstration?

Let them play one at all.

In fact, that's better anyway.

I agree.

It's a demonstration match by the Chinese team for the president.

It's a demonstration rather than a match.

We're getting back to the editors then.

Do you think we ought to try to, is it worth making the effort to go and answer questions before the editors come?

Assuming we have a question.

I think so.

Because it is much work for you.

You're pretty well set up for work, but not as much.

I mean, 30 minutes at a reception could do an awful lot of work.

You've got it down there.

Why don't you have a full thing here so much easier?

Well, if we can get one.

I don't know how many there are.

If we can get one in some place.

I think if we could arrange to have it all right here at the White House, where you answer questions for 30 minutes, you have a reception with it.

It's going to do an awful lot of good, I think.

In other words, basically, they had a chance to ask questions that way.

I'm sure the crowd will be much longer than that, but you could have 300 actors in.

They could.

As well, you could, you could close, yeah, I had my radio.

This is one thing you could radio, couldn't you?

Yes.

If we do live radio, the networks may come in and say,

We've got to have it for live television.

And we could always say no.

Well, we'll decide that one time.

I don't think they will, having had a press conference a week before.

No, we just simply put it on that basis that this would be too much of a use of television time.

The library will happen.

You see, you're not worried about tipping them in advance so that you'll save four days if you wiggle after the press conference, but then the first of the week you say the president's going to do a Q&A, it'll be...

Available, I've got insurance with the editors, with the patient's editors, and he's kind of appeared that way before.

But why not have them in the White House here?

Have them on the radio.

And the ones that we can't get in the Eastern will sit up in the hall or something.

As a matter of fact, you could do that.

You would be able to see, to hear.

How about having it established on radio?

How about going 45 minutes in?

I think with editors, let me tell you, knowing the kinds of questions they ask, I would go an hour.

An hour is too long.

Forty, forty-five minutes?

Forty-five minutes, just say.

Forty-five minutes.

And then they have a little more time, because the editor doesn't want the clip to answer quite as much.

He kind of feels cut off, hurt, you know what I mean?

The radio, that's the perfect radio for them.

And that's, radio reaches a few people too.

At that time, if you do it at seven o'clock period, something like that, radio reaches a lot of people.

If you say 7, it'd be 4 on the west coast, right?

I was just thinking about this, because a lot of people are heading towards the port.

I wonder if that is very little late, though, in terms of their reception at dinner, too.

That's too damn bad.

7, 7.45, 8.

With certain hotter nerves and all, they have to go to dinner afterwards.

That'd be out here at 8.30 or 9.

Go to dinner.

We're going to keep that as an option, at least, relating to the radio thing, with the editors, but not a panel.

Would you agree with the panel?

I think it's far better than having them in here and having them just sit in the room.

So that they have a feeling of a White House press conference.

See what I mean?

Yeah.

They've seen this damn room and so forth.

They sit there, have the little gold chairs up, and then we'll give you a chance to do it.

And if you don't have TV, you can put more chairs in that table.

But that's good.

Of course, there is one advantage, as you know, of having the, as we remember, of having the parents before them in their hall.

But then they go for applause and all that sort of thing.

I don't think that makes any difference.

I don't think there's a big plot.

I prefer not an ad.

Like the one?

No.

It just isn't a newsman thing.

When the Y is, you want to remember that.

It's the Y. I don't worry about that.

I don't think so.

I'd rather do it in our own format.

I think it's a plot at the end.

Now, we don't care whether they vote or not.

I just make it swift and finish it.

Well, you don't call it a press conference.

Yeah.

I'm going to invite the editors to the reception, and I'll answer questions.

See what I mean?

Then afterwards, you'll call it a press conference.

Okay, well, I'll do that.

I wouldn't be a bit concerned about this first conference ground.

I mean, it's all for our interest.

Now, we'll do possibly one television this month and one television in May.

That's all we can stand.

Because then we'll have Moscow.

When we return from Moscow, we should be one.

But only one, I think, before the Democratic Convention.

After the Democratic Convention, we've got to go again.

Probably.

When's it out right now?

I bet you finished.

15, or 13.

My question to you too, Jim.

Well, I was thinking in June, is it worth doing one of those three-on-one deals?

I don't know if they could.

It's up to them to do that.

On Moscow.

Oh.

Yeah.

On the summit.

The summit wrapped up.

That's right.

The three-on-one foreign policy right now, on which is our strength, and then they can do what the goddamn police can do.

It's up to them.

They might.

That would be better than the press conference at that point.

Let me make the point that it needs some in-depth discussion on an hour basis now, rather than just a superficial clicking of the press conference.

I have a three-on-one on the Chinese and Russian side.

If you could do that with an hour, Jim, that's much better than having a press conference, which will be highly political in terms of all that stuff is.

Well, I like the three-on-one.

I think press conferences should begin to move along in sort of not every other way necessarily, but at least once a month.

Oh, yes.

Because I think it's very much to our advantage to continue that pattern.

Right.

If you did the three-on-one, I think

Also, do a press conference.

Right.

I think so, too.

You've got to.

See, after you get back from, you've got one, two, three, four, five, six weeks.

Because there was absolutely nothing that could help.

We've got six weeks.

I think what I could do would be to do the three-on-one first.

First.

Do it within a week after we get back.

About a week after we get back.

And have that be basically the report to the people.

That's right.

And then two or three weeks later.

And then three weeks later, I'd say, and I would, I'd say we'd do a press conference.

That's what I'd do.

The three-on-one would be clearly tied to the summits.

He opposed some of the radicals.

Foreign policy.

Absolutely.

And that would be a better way to present it.

It should be explored now.

You see, the reason why we want to do it, the reason why I think, also we have a damn good pattern now.

I did that.

I did one of mine in 1969.

I've done a lot of those right now.

First, I've done a one-on-one with ABC, I've done a one-on-one with CBS, and I've been taking the life of the president for NBC, so we've covered the three networks fairly well in that respect, correct?

Now, in addition to that, I've had two, three-on-one's in the house.

I think we ought to have one more.

I think the thing to do is to have it a week after we return in the summer.

Does that sound good?

I think the Q&A format is the best one.

It's a strong word for us and we should use it now.

And we're in a position to set these bastards up for it.

After all, the TV people are the ones that are squealing about not having a TV press conference.

How the hell can they squeal?

We go on and on.

What the hell are you talking about?

Every one of them, I think every network said the president had a press conference.

Cameras were not permitted.

So you said it's not cameras that are permitted?

Of course.

After the Soviet summit at 315 does apply, one of the other ones .

Right.

Let them come on and piss on it.

That's our objective.

They sure are rushing in and collecting the thing on the bus.

Let them come in and piss on it.

They won't hurt us a bit.

That's right.

Because people will have seen you and heard your announcements.

Equal time doesn't bother me.

I'm not going to worry about equal time.

In the first place, the equal time, when they give it, they don't get it on the three all-networks at once.

That's the first advantage we get.

We're on all three at the same time, day on.

Each network separately, and they come up on different times.

That cuts your audience down to zilch.

When you're on three networks, you get $60 million.

If you're on each network separately, you get a maximum of $30 million.

Because that would be you.

Because you have a choice.

Yeah, you'd only get $30 million.

I know we found that out.

And if it's anybody else, it would be anywhere near that.

Would it be 50?

Maybe.

I'll never forget it.

The 52 campaign.

52 campaign.

The 56 campaign, I think it was.

They kept saying, oh, great.

We just got to get her on TV.

She'd make a great speech.

And so we raised the money and put her on.

Maybe it was in the 60s.

It was the 60s campaign.

She had a rating of four.

Do you remember?

Yeah.

Four.

The Snow World watched her.

But they don't.

They only watch the candidate.

We tried the vice presidential candidate.

Lodge didn't get anything.

They said, you've got to put Lodge on.

So we bought a half hour time for Lodge and you didn't get a call.

We bought a half hour for you and put you on it and you only got about a ten.

Remember?

Twelve.

What was that again?

Arousal.

And that, you just don't get them.

People don't, if they have a choice, they watch something else.

That's the point.

It's amazing, but it's true.

It's absolutely true.

So I think what we ought to do is to play to our time.

Now, on this editor's thing, though, is it worth doing?

I don't think so.

It's a good idea.

With the election here, it's a hell of a deal to dazzle the Jesus out of the editors, and it's not a bad thing to do.

It's a good idea.

They've all got to make a decision on endorsements, and they'll be in on the decision.

And then after shotgun,

Every time you've done it, it's a monster.

And it helps to keep the rewriters honest.

The editors see some things that they, you know, they've kind of, haven't been in that niche for a long time.

Don't let her talk you out of this.

It sure feels so strong, you know, that everyone has to be there.

They don't know what to be there, do they?

No.

Well, we can set it up that they can, if we have to, what we do is set up a drawing.

At their convention, they just all draw out of the hat.

They obviously get the first 300.

And also, they're all invited to the reception.

They're all invited to the reception.

And they can have that down.

They can have the reception start at the lower floor.

And pipe the Q&A down.

Everybody can be there at the...

could be standing around having a drink and listening to it.

It wouldn't happen.

You know what I mean?

It's better not to.

It would be better to let them stay at their hotel and listen to it on the radio.

We'll bust them over right afterwards.

I'm sorry.

I'll give you a chance to go up.

And you go down and start a receiving line.

Shake hands with all of them.

The place of the receiving line in this instance would be the...

If it is, it would be great to do it, because then they'd see the new blue room, which would also be a big treat.

Because there's going to be a big stir about the new blue room.

The fact that it's redone, it's a more important room than the red room and the green room.

There was a big stir about both of them.

So people know, they know it's being redone.

I know, but I mean, when it's done, it'll be a superb job, there'll be a lot of interest in seeing the new blue road.

Yeah.

This will be blue?

Sure.

Yeah, we're going to take the terrible wall paper, the straight wall paper.

That wasn't done very well before.

I think it's going to be improved considerably.

Well, they all did that.

They were not as good.

I mean, it was really not very lovely.

Marvelous.

And I have to do one thing now, okay.

That sounds pretty good to me, doesn't it?

Let's see if we've got substantial input questioning the scaffolding that they don't want us to go in.

Okay, well, if it's a real question, it's a real question.

The problem is we're pushing

too much, too fast, that may haunt us.

We don't really know what we're talking about.

And Conley is concerned because he says, you're opening the Pandora's box of tax reform.

And that scares the hell out of him.

He's bored at all.

He's not sure yet.

If we can figure out a way to do something without opening that box, yeah.

Now, the alternate side of that is that Mills has opened the box.

And somewhere, somebody can ask you, are you for this or against it?

You sure as hell aren't going to say you're against it.

So he says he's for it.

He doesn't have a position one way or the other.

He's not sure yet.

I don't know.

Well, all right, let's pass it.

One thing I do want to do this week, and I don't know how we've heard about this, but I want to talk to you.

I've got to go into a team that you can see.

Now, it's going to be hard for us.

Next week is spring vacation, so I'm just going to head a little back to Toronto.

Can I go in the hallway?

Why?

There's no problem going in there?

Yeah, I don't know why the hell you can't go in the small plane, as a matter of fact.

I'd like to do that, you know, just, uh, do a flag and carry press with me, see what I mean?

If the plane goes down, they die too, if they help me.

You don't want them on the plane.

You don't, you wouldn't, you couldn't consider it a small plane to take a press with you, but I don't know why you couldn't send a backup plane.

Why could we do the helicopter?

You'd go in the helicopter without a press.

It may be easier for you.

Create less stir.

It might create more stir, that's the point.

It might create less stir.

It doesn't have to create any stir at all.

What you can do, we can take it over to an event.

You go to Camp David.

You're up at Camp David for Easter weekend.

Trisha says, gee, I wish you'd come on and see the department.

So you go down to the airport over there, Gettysburg or Arizona or someplace.

Get on your plane and go on up to there Sunday evening or Monday morning or something.

Go up there for lunch on Monday.

Monday evening.

Go ahead and prompt Camp David.

It has an advantage.

very small and go without getting into excluding everybody down here.

We do these critters.

I know we can do it, but it is a shady operation trying to take, leave town and everything without telling the press.

But what we did, I could do it on the basis of about an hour or so to stay long.

And then hit the radio and everything.

They don't have to do that.

They don't have to.

They've got six or seven hours.

They're more ready to go out and do something then.

Sunday afternoon.

Or just a good Easter Sunday if you're down here.

Church.

is a good day to do it, and that makes it even harder to get them.

There's less news kind of coverage.

And Easter Sunday, everybody's going to have a hell of a time demonstrating against you on Easter Sunday, mobilizing a demonstration.

I met without any notice.

The lowest thing that's happened to three men here, they had those damn visible creches out there, demonstrating the power of that good Friday evening.

Yep.

That was a pretty sad, god-damned evening.

Yes.

I'm sure we'll remember that.

Yes.

Thank you.

We can do it Sunday or Monday, easily.

Yes, sir.

I think we will go at a quarter to the, yeah, maybe we can get a helicopter.

And so we'll have the car pick up the First Lady and then come down here.

That's why we wanted to do this, because of David Frank's thing.

Yeah.

Rose, would you call Pat and come with me?

I can leave before it's too late.

All right.

We have to go.

You're going to drive all the way up?

No.

Oh, that's okay then.

Please come with me.

That's all I've got with the education conference.

I'm going to bring you to the... Yeah.

I'll take them.

I don't care.

I'll go.

Camp David at quarter to two.

So I'll get respect ready.

I'm not going to do that.

I can't.

I don't want that.

Okay.

I'll go look at it.

That's it.

That's all the things.

That was it.

So you put Canadian Parliament speech to review in the U.S. News article, which you should review.

And I think there's one other thing.

Maybe it's the Parliament.

I suppose Henry Shaw.

Henry Shaw.

I'm not sure.

Okay.

Mossbacker, I think we should take him and sell you the trip.

Mike, you stay out of the way.

I'm just not going to have you, Mike.

I don't want... Let me tell you what's a pain in the ass.

To be moving somebody and have the chief of protocol having to sit in the jump seats.

You know, things like that.

I'm just not going to have him around.

Okay.

And it's even bad to have, believe me, to have the chief of protocol...

And he keeps his state visitors, you know, it's very bad.

He and his wife have to sit there in the jump seats and they all let those people ride alone.

Chief Protocol doesn't have to ride in that goddamn car.

Well, they think they do.

I mean, not the Chief Protocol.

The other countries do it, too.

We have a hell of a time getting them out of your car and getting them out of our car.

They're Chief Protocol, but I'm not going to have Mossbacher ride with me.

In your car?

Never?

That's right.

Well, we won't do that.

How do you understand?

I don't mind his going, but I just can't have him in the way.

What is the problem?

He wants to go.

Is that the problem?

Of course not.

Well, of course not.

You told him, when he talked to you on the plane about quitting, you said, gee, you don't want to leave before the China and Russia trips, because those are going to be a big thing.

All right, I'm taking this over.

He made a big hand on it.

We're not taking on the advances, and we're not, you know, obviously not going to take Mrs. Mosbacher and all that, as we've done on some other trips.

Oh, she's going to go.

Sorry.

Mrs. Rogers is going to go.

I wish I had that right now.

I don't know why.

And he's not going in the advance.

We're using CODIS to do the advances, which is much better.

Infinitely better.

He just does a better job.

A MOSFAC can't do that.

He really can't.

MOSFACers, if you've got that kind of a chief of protocol, his job is as an official host here.

And that's where he does a hell of a good job.

That's right.

He's great.

He turned King the same over to let him drive around the country every week.

He's marvelous.

How many have you put on the plank?

Half of it will have to be two.

No hurry.

Okay.

What time does she want to go?

She's very related.

She's fine.

She said she could be ready to change the things and make them much better.

So would you like to find me?

Two o'clock.

Thank you.

They love it.

Happy birthday.

Happy birthday to David.

Happy David's birthday.

David gets a David's birthday present?

It's kind of funny.

And you've got to be certain how these are not even on the market yet.

They are not even on the market yet.

They're from that Wilson's Busters, yeah.

Julie's been talking to me about it.

She knows I just started playing, and I tell her, after you've finished me off, I can't walk anymore.

I can't move my arm.

This is the end of the line, isn't it?

Well, I'm perfectly happy with it.

The problem that I see is that it's never right, and maybe we won't see it.

That's a problem there.

And Elliot makes another point, which is that if you do something on the Catholic thing, if you want to get it done, we ought to do it in the context of the whole education thing, rather than starting to throw that one barge and let us over.

Red flag.

You sold me.

Good.

Well, they were all against it, and they're for it on principle, but then they get not ready.

And putting it together, they're going to come up with, they're afraid that what you do is going to backfire, open up.

It might be worth a chance.

I'm not sure.

It probably is worth taking the chance.

We've got them stirred, which is good.

We've got to do something about it.

We do the best we can.

I'll only say something.

Incidentally, Lafitte is doing that conference, and he can say something.

Yeah.

Would you say...

You know, when Julie and David come up, they're coming up tomorrow.

I think that there's no, nothing, certainly out of the way for them to use the helicopter, man.

I really think they should.

They're always raising the question because it's an hour and three quarters, man, as you drive.

They're out of their minds.

Not good.

And the same Julie Drew of Trishville, she comes out because, what the hell, you know, the ice on her scent.

Kevin people, Sam people, all these helicopters.

Do they?

Yes.

There's no question.

Tomorrow, about 11, she's in the helicopter.

And the, uh, Patricia, when they come in, I had them call up there and say, they're going to get about 9 o'clock tomorrow night.

But, uh, I'd say it's a lot of time.

You don't need any rationalization on that at all.

Your guests at Camp David should use the helicopter to get there.

It's the accepted means of transportation to Camp David.

The automobile is a standby.

It is.

Hell yes.

Everybody uses the chopper ship up there.

God damn it, every lieutenant colonel at the Pentagon uses a helicopter to get to work in, for Christ's sake.

Really?

A lot of them do.

I'm not a lieutenant colonel.

I'm a general sergeant.

I was noted in the news summary something with regard to...

I see.

Not a new story.

He's just doing his duty and making sure that one doesn't die.

And we're

You've got the boys really working on their computers.

Yes, it was in 68, yes.

I thought it was amusing, and the ITT thing, that Jewish secretary that, you know, said that Hartke, among others, had to reuse their goddamn helicopters.

I mean, their planes.

Yeah.

What do you think of that?

Well, their contributor record is apparently substantially democratic.

They've bought both sides, but there's more over there than they have on our side.

Where did Colson finally go?

He has a new place with quite a lot of land and all that new, currently beautiful new house and a big piece of land in Virginia, I guess.

And that's where I used to do it.

He said, I know you'll disappoint the President because he thinks I ought to go away somewhere, but what I'd really like to do is take the three days off and just spend some time reading

and digging in the yard a little bit.

So he's really pleased.

Really, that is almost the ultimate luxury for most of us, isn't it?

Just to be able to say, well, walk around your yard.

Yeah.

True, true.

And of course, it's spring now.

See the flowers and so forth.

But he'll sit and read and just enjoy it.

You will get the argument hard on any returns about getting them the offensive on the busking thing.

Yes, sir.

I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean.

I didn't hear you.

They are the ones that probably should be included in the new summary for the reason that they are more broadly read by politicians.

Or do you agree?

Well, when there's an item that's worth covering, I don't think you need a detailed analysis of everything they come up with.

I couldn't agree more.

No, I meant it.

Was there any, is there, I suppose nothing we can do

But, uh, I was somewhat surprised.

He was just, uh, pinch-popping off about the idea that he was going to hurt us.

It was obviously an answer to a question, you know.

Somebody said, oh, is he going to hurt?

Well, sure, he said, sure.

It's corrosive.

God damn it.

So, here's Finch.

Good old Honest Bob.

But not something that... She would laugh and say, of course not.

Hard to figure out, isn't it?

Really hard to figure out.

I wonder, what can you say to them?

It's not your fault, they're obviously trapping you.

You're going to have to develop some stuff where they don't, so they can't trap you in this.

I'll talk to him about it.

He ought to be aware of it.

I don't think it's fatal, but I think it's helpful.

Well, but it isn't helpful.

It's sure as hell not helpful.

Because it will start others to say, thinking the same thing, see.

What do you think my influence is?

Do you do it?

He's smarter than that, isn't he?

I don't know.

He gets into these long interviews and he...

Now, he may have thought he was talking off the record, which is another thing.

You know, some guy just from my own background... Well, just from my own background, Bob, not the quotation, but which is all...

He really does look like it's going to cause some problems, doesn't he?

He says, well, it's going to have a curative effect, but it's not.

He cannot be honest with the press.

That's what he can't do.

When do other people ever learn that you do not answer their goddamn questions?

Isabella Klein did not make that mistake.

Exactly.

Mine did not make it.

Once you get Bob and Honey together, well, that might be an idea.

And then Herb can say, Bob, just don't give them a goddamn inch.

No.

What Bob was thinking of was his own credibility to him.

Sure.

The hell with his credibility, just like Henry thinks it is.

The hell with everybody's credibility.

Rogers, the rest, they've got to think of the general cause.

Would you not agree?

Well, actually, I think we're doing the right thing to do.

Bolton and Graber, well, certainly.

Colson, also, for a few more days than any of us, they have taken a little control.

There isn't anything that they can do.

There isn't?

No.

And look at what happens if there isn't one line of it on the news last night.

Well, there wasn't in the paper this morning.

I don't think there was.

Oh, no, Mr. Sandman.

Well, can we have a follow-up with that secretary?

Janine has got to check his records.

She's the one they want to get on.

Janine has got to check his records.

They don't want anybody else on.

But now they're getting it.

See, they're getting her.

This property's part of their effort.

It's no ours.

Because we were... Now we don't want her.

We wanted her on.

Now we're not getting her on.

So we're getting statements from her and getting some mileage out over the other one, which finally we're doing in the public press.

That way we don't have to hear anything.

And I'll see whether Tommy and the rest want to question what about Senator Hartke.

Yeah.

Huh?

Has he ever used a plane?

Did you receive a contribution?

What contributions have you received from higher channeling?

I can start on that.

Do you think that he uses airplanes?

No, we do it for ourselves.

Everybody does.

Every one of those guys on that floor, I'm sitting here about to start asking whose airplanes they use.

They're squealing, do you see the Bill Gill thing?

They're squealing about the State Department and the German Congressman too.

Or is he getting it across?

What is it?

Who's squealing?

Oh, I can see that.

Bill had a pretty good thing.

I didn't see it, but he apparently kind of rolled his eyes around.

Congressman Hunt has demanded top-secret State Department files on congressional misbehavior during overseas junkets.

An example, says Gill, is that one well-known congressman bought $200 worth of Kleenex rather than turn back any unspent money.

He used up his counterpart funds buying Kleenex.

The State Department now faces a real dilemma, said Gill, for ABC has learned of many such instances on file in the state.

Several congressmen have called state and asked them to ignore Hunt's request.

Gill said the State Department source commented that may require more diplomacy than the state could deliver.

I agree with Mike.

That's what I call Mike McMahon.

Can I say anything?

Sure.

Do you agree?

Sure.

Keep it alive.

I'd still like to see it, actually.

And the people around here, instead of showing them that.

Oh, yeah.

We've done a couple of them.

They don't have an idea of the style.

The guys, we wanted her up in New York today.

Went over the convention plan and the Department of Textile Authority and things.

Stuffing him.

So, the people I want to

Run it forward.

Well, tell them, I've already seen it, because we've run it several times.

Yeah.

Once you get thirsty.

Yeah.

But see, we run anything like that.

We set up all the closed circuit thing, man, and run it.

I thought it was for people here.

Were you talking to me or Henry about having him in?

Cronkite, Chancellor, Smith, or individually?

I said it was fine.

He had to see you?

No, they're going to see them.

Or see them, well, which I think it's, it must have been Henry or Scallion.