Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Vietnam War and North Vietnamese Offensive

40:12Nobody really has, they all think it's a good, the problem is everybody thinks it's a good thing for you to do, but there's nothing for you to say.
40:29I don't think you should go, but you shouldn't say anything.
40:59with the language in it.
41:01And that's what they're working on.
41:03And that's what they're gonna see is whether they've got anything to keep it.
41:06Well, the only way to do it is to do as long as you can.
41:11And I should think we should be able to get... And what are you thinking about Dave, Bob?
41:16Well, you said Wednesday, and there's maybe some problem working it out on Wednesday, but I think we can do it.
41:25There may not be a general discussion
41:33We have a problem on this .
41:35And I don't know what you can do about it.
41:39What have you done in regard to that again?
41:42But we put out a .
41:44We have not announced it, but we have confirmed it to them.
41:48They changed the date and moved the date to .
41:52They haven't put it out, or they haven't announced it because they haven't confirmed it to us.
42:01shifted their invitations and they told their own people that you're coming and it's gone now.
42:06And there was a, something, a wire service story or something that said you were coming.
42:14It's just not a confirmed.
42:17thing they can say it was a tentative thing we can we can get out of it yeah i know there's some like it's always offered but it's more often sometimes to do things uh do you think we could get ahead and do it probably
42:44I do not think it's a good idea.
42:45I mean, I can't really anticipate what the situation is, but I do not think it's a good idea for me to have to go down there and talk about Vietnam on any basis.
42:58And you say, well, it's great for you.
42:59They're going to say the boys are coming home.
43:02the time that they're fighting over there.
43:03But the point is, this is all on re-indemnization, see, and that sort of thing.
43:07Now, I think it's going to work out.
43:09And maybe within three weeks or so, it'll be all right to say, I don't want to hypo it this week.
43:14That's really the problem we've got.
43:16I think we've got to see such things very soon.
43:19Now, we can't let them get out of hand.
43:22We've got to do another thing.
43:24Not exactly the same, but what I'm getting at is, we've got to make hard decisions.
43:27Let's make the goddamn things and just take the heat on them.
43:32the uh actually if you drop that you can hear the catalyst going down thursday which is that's right what we were thinking about that they do have a section on thursday but for the catalyst
43:54I raised that with him this morning as to whether I thought this was a, he seemed to think it was.
44:03Well, Henry had changed his mind when I talked to him.
44:06He didn't realize what I had to say.
44:08I said, what do you want to talk about?
44:11And he sees that you're in a hell of a spot, and that's the point.
44:15All these people that want me to make speeches don't realize that you've got to, when you finally get there, you've got to say something.
44:21and it has to relate to at least the general subject of what this thing's about.
44:28Well, this, we've talked a little, and I'm glad that somebody else has said yes, but
44:37I don't think we're going after propaganda or our own line on this Vietnamese thing right at this point.
44:49In that, we're letting it look as if we think everything's going to go fine.
44:56where it seems to me this is one where we ought to, and we still have time to do it, because we can still say, we've been waiting to see if this was the events that we had been expecting, and well, within the next year, so we can say, let's say that we think that, I don't know, so I heard the news somewhere, and I think that sounded pretty well, in a sense, because Averitt says the situation is grim, you know, and all that sort of thing.
45:19Okay, but I think we ought to say, I think we should predict loss of some cities.
45:25Oh, hell yes.
45:26And I don't think we have.
45:27I think we're still saying we hope that what we're letting is we call the test of the arm and of the immunization.
45:33If they lose such and such, it will be a problem.
45:37If they lose so-and-so, it will be a disaster.
45:40Well, why say that?
45:41That's why I mean if we don't get 37% of the vote, I don't know what we're going to do.
45:44We're going to be able to do about it.
45:46It's sort of the same thing.
45:47It's lost.
45:47Well, it counts what happens.
45:49But we can try.
45:51No, the question is, the point of this is that they're going to have to talk about it and so forth and so on, but the real question is how it all comes out.
45:58And if this thing can be finished now, this is the time to finish it.
46:02We have an outcome to use.
46:06How it comes out, the real question, if it comes out the way Henry says, then that comes out fine, but I think that can be, by our media coverage, the way we get treated by the media, can be covered as coming out bad, when it really comes out good.
46:24Yeah.
46:24I mean, we expect to lose it in some cities, because I understand.
46:26We don't care who's, they're not cities.
46:29Like, one or three, you know, things like that.
46:32And there'll be some cities lost, and they'll be retaken.
46:38At a later time.
46:41Well, it's one of those things you can't do a goddamn thing about.
46:44I'm not so sure we can't.
46:45It goes back to Laos, where we didn't do anything about it.
46:48That was our mistake.
46:50Yeah.
46:50In Cambodia, we did do something about it.
46:52We're doing something here.
46:53At least by God.
46:55Reporters come out of the goddamn place.
46:57Yeah.
46:58And, you know, we're doing a few little things, and I'm raising some money.
47:07But my problem is going down to Kentucky and whispering in the dark about it.
47:12See my point?
47:13When I walk these guys back, I'm gonna go back and say, gee, things are grim in Vietnam.
47:19That's the problem I've got.
47:22And that is what the way we really want to play this week.
47:26This is a serious situation, you see.
47:29But it's something that we can...
47:48I know exactly what you mean.
47:49They've got to play this as an insurance, and they're taking a few whacks.
47:53What do you expect?
47:55That doesn't mean anything.
47:57Well, four, five, six weeks ago, we were built up, the public was built up that we were expecting a big offensive.
48:05Things were going to, you know, the Vietnamese were passing their troops and all this stuff, and this kind of thing.
48:11Then it didn't happen.
48:12Then we were attacked with that.
48:13Remember?
48:14Yeah, some of it.
48:16But it didn't happen.
48:16But that, from a public viewpoint, came out well for us.
48:22I mean, the fact that we didn't materialize.
48:26Now it has.
48:27We can gain from it.
48:39I will try to get a few of them.
48:41I can do it, don't you?
48:43Are you sure you're trying to do it, Bob?
48:44I don't want that in the White House.
48:46That's the point.
48:48I've got to keep Sigler out of this, and I've got to keep the president out of this, because I don't want to get any goddamn credibility crap over here on this.
48:58I don't know what's happening.
48:59See?
49:01trying to keep Henry away from the phone, too, and when he got screwed, he apparently crashed on the phone.
49:06Minds of hell, he tased every one of his calls.
49:08I don't know.
49:08That Jew business again.
49:10And he got suckered because he called him on Saturday morning, and the Pentagon wasn't giving him the full information.
49:16And he said they were children in bed.
49:19You shouldn't comment on this matter.
49:24You shouldn't try to tell them what it means.
49:26I'm talking about that today.
49:49Well, he sure should.
49:50He should.
49:54I'll do it.
49:56Well, did everybody have a good weekend, I hope?
49:59Yeah, I think so.
50:00Did you have a good experience?
50:01How about John?
50:02Did he get a vacation?
50:03Or did he get a vacation?
50:05Well, he got a little time off.
50:06He did a lot.
50:07He did all the editorial boards, TV things, all that stuff.
50:12Now that is not true.
50:14That we know isn't.
50:37As far as we can determine, it sure is.
50:39Although some people say that, you know, we've gotten some reports that people do say they're interested in it.
50:44Like, as Cide put it, like in Howard Hughes' case, there's interest in the ITV case, like there was in the Hughes book name.
50:51So what the hell is it?
50:54There sure isn't any level of concern.
50:56What I meant is that Cide's point was not that they were interested in it.
50:59His point went much further than that.
51:02You know, it was a mutual...
51:05But John said what they are, the one that they may get on everywhere at every level, who's loot prices now?
51:11He said that's the one they really are.
51:13Did the comics vary across at all?
51:16A little, I guess.
51:17But what's going to get across there says loot prices go down.
51:20Sure.
51:22Well, if they don't go up, that's what we're doing.
51:24Well, they're actually going down.
51:26All the chains are pushing this now, and they're all running on the same stuff.
51:30That's all I'm saying.
51:32have a variety of giant foods here.
51:34Like they were out on the radio all the time pushing buy fish and poultry.
51:38Now they're saying, we've got the prices down due to the government pressure
51:46That's very big help.
51:48Job opening helps you know if something happens.
51:50It doesn't help if nothing can happen.
51:53But this one we knew something was going to happen.
51:55I know, that's why we did it.
51:56But also if they're coming down, they started down last week, they're going to come down apparently some more this week.
52:01Right.
52:02And the point of the interesting coincidence, this is the week they do the cost of living extension.
52:06Yeah.
52:06For next month.
52:08For next month.
52:09So that'll happen.
52:13The thing is that we have to...
52:16The more I think about it, though, you just can't have everybody get in an uproar about every goddamn thing about Vietnam.
52:22Actually, that's something I'm going to have to work on this weekend.
52:26I'm not going to spend any time on the domestic stuff because I've got to get a motor over here and a letter for us, the whole goddamn bunch.
52:33You know what I mean?
52:35The only thing I can work on is that school thing.
52:37If you get that ready, I'll do something on that and the other things.
52:41It makes no sense, you know?
52:42I don't know how to check this one.
52:45But if I get any time off, I'll get Mitchell or Conley.
52:48And Conley, I mean, in the next couple of days, I've really got to get a hold of this thing.
52:55And shake him up a bit.
53:00It's really too bad that I have him.
53:06And Robert and Blair are two very weak and vacillating men.
53:11Every time we have anything like this,
53:16It's true in Cambodia.
53:17And their attitude is just wrong.
53:18They just don't step up to it.
53:19They don't step up and hit the goddamn ball.
53:22I mean, they should be calling the press conferences, shouldn't they?
53:24You're getting right.
53:25I shouldn't be asking them.
53:28They should be saying, what can we do?
53:32What can we do?
53:32How can we help?
53:34Or it should be calling and saying, I think we've got a chance here to make a positive out of this.
53:38Here's what I propose to do.
53:39I'd like to go out and say ding, ding, ding, ding.
53:41I'd like to trot so-and-so out.
53:44And I'll keep it up, and I'd like to get our goddamn bombers in there and start hitting stuff for a change.
53:51Bombers.
53:53The colossal joke, huh?
53:57Can't hit anything unless the weather's perfect.
54:01Zoom.
54:02Unlimited.
54:09It was a curious thing about what government might do anyway.
54:13First time we got a break rate with the charge.
54:21All I just got had to do was say it, other than denounce any taxes.
54:24I said, no, I don't draw.
54:27And I really bounced on that.
54:29I'm sorry to say it happened.
54:31I wanted to see if I could do well, but it didn't happen.
54:33Well, it won't hurt McGovern.
54:34No, very good.
54:35Because Harold, he got it across the television and not denied it on the newspapers.
54:39So he's got his money.
54:41Well, it ran heavily.
54:42Well, he got it across the television on just a talk show.
54:46By the time it got to the evening news, it was running as a two-way story.
54:53Well, they fucking charged him in the news.
54:57I don't think we're going to go to Wisconsin.
55:08He might help me.
55:10I was interested in that.
55:15That was a very interesting point.
55:18He says until they get something concrete, you know, and what happens, not very often,
55:26He has a terrible, terrible bent on the liberal side.
55:29But he also is so intelligent and basically has, deep down now then, has press honesty.
55:36And he just says, well, you've got to get something concrete or they're going to...
55:41He gets annoyed with them in the same way that John Osborne in the campaign in 70 got mad at the demonstrators in Wisconsin that night and was saying, for God's sake, you're killing yourselves.
55:52Remember?
55:54His point was, he was for what they were trying to do.
55:57He was mad at the real actor.
55:59That's right.
56:00Okay, I think that's Westergaard's motivation here.
56:03He's just saying, hell, you gotta play it right.
56:07You can't screw it up or it's gonna backfire.
56:10I think that's what's bothering him.
56:12He'll probably be smart enough to read some of those things between the lines.
56:15Sure.
56:16He knows what's going on.
56:17He knows that the thing's turning to, you know what I mean?
56:20And, you know, it is.
56:21I mean, I don't, on ITT, I'm not going to be apologizing to you about the chariot knocking around, but we sit all too close to it.
56:30You have to realize there's a lot of stuff coming out.
56:32The beer was on 60 Minutes.
56:33That was a good thing for her to do.
56:36It turned out.
56:37That's been a 10% fluency.
56:40It's all right.
56:41If she can go on television for an interview, why the hell can't she be interviewed by that?
56:45Because she got sent back out.
56:48Interrogated by a senator.
56:53She got across.
56:55White has a big picture of it today.
56:58In the interrogation room, big colored photograph, she's got these damn tubes up her nose and called the senator sick.
57:04Kind of gruesome thing.
57:07It is.
57:08It's a pretty funny look.
57:09Yeah, it's a, he's a fighter.
57:13I gotta hand it to the mall CEO.
57:17I was cold for a few, did he get any time off at all?
57:28Yeah, he put in some time lobbying for this camp and the rest of the time.
57:32He's a, oh gosh, yes.
57:33I was hoping he would leave him alone for a while.
57:36Well, we left him alone, but he didn't leave us alone.
57:40Well, in a sense, to be granted, you can't be completely away from it.
57:47They are.
57:48They could be.
57:49They could take two weeks off.
57:51But for four or five days, actually, they've got to be a little bit in touch, or they're going to do it.
57:57Well, it's got to happen.
57:58It's not a fire that you've got to tend.
58:01You can't fire it.
58:01It takes a while before someone else picks them up.
58:05You can't just walk away from it.
58:06It can't be done.
58:11calling for Secret Service coverage or, I mean, Nansfield or Connolly again.
58:17Well, he has been on the law.
58:18I know.
58:18Why would he raise it knowing that Connolly had been on the law?
58:21That's the law.
58:21I'm the general commander.
58:25Well, some of them, Connolly kind of did it.
58:29He, Connolly interpreted the law as being
58:33saying that that's one of the candidates, and that Kennedy is declared to be some kind of or not a candidate.
58:37Yes.
58:37And now, of course, the risk is that somebody's going to shoot a candidate, and they'll say, why are you going to attack him?
58:45But he's not a candidate.
58:48He's the one that's going to hit him.
58:50Can we protect the candidates for the rest of their lives?
58:53Well, that's the point.
58:54And how do we help?
58:55You know, we've got to take them at their word.
58:58If a guy says he's not a candidate, if he wants to seek a service protection, then he ought to be on all those ballots.
59:04Yeah, right.
59:06Out there, but not like everybody else.
59:09Yeah.
59:12Well, I see somebody let Ed go get to Whitcover.
59:14Was there a reason for that?
59:16I haven't any idea.
59:16That came as a complete surprise.
59:19Did he talk to him?
59:20He must have.
59:21Apparently, Whitcover did a book on him.
59:23A book?
59:23I didn't know the book was coming out.
59:26Do you think you can let him do that?
59:29Oh, I don't think I can.
59:32Why don't I?
59:33No, Whitcover used to hang around a lot, you know.
59:36And I cut the son of a bitch off when I didn't see him.
59:40See, no good.
59:41This is part of the problem.
59:47Just a second.
1:00:53Well, he is bad news and a real action man, but anyway.
1:01:00He slips, not just whining actually, he slips in, hits a hole in his skirt.
1:01:06Doesn't make any sense.
1:01:17So at the time I sent an editorial, he did an editorial.
1:01:24I don't know, my feeling there is that it's pissing its wells all the way.
1:01:29I think so, unless there's another, I should go here, big revelation of some kind.
1:01:37These editorial records are picking it up a little late.
1:01:41Well, the Times, obviously, they don't want to see a guy that may not come in.
1:01:44The Washington Post does the same thing every once in a while.
1:01:48They had another editorial saying the committee must not be deflected by the fact that Peter Beard's memo is discredited because that isn't the point.
1:01:55The point is not a memo.
1:01:57The point is the wrongdoing and the ties between government and big business.
1:02:01You know, they're pathetically afraid that they're going to lose it.
1:02:07Which it has to.
1:02:08And they are doing everything they can and will to keep it alive.
1:02:13That's my feeling.
1:02:14And I think that's what you've got to go in there.
1:02:16And I think you're going to have a point for a while.
1:02:17But they can't do it.
1:02:20The networks can't keep it alive if they figure out a way to do it.
1:02:23But they don't.
1:02:26They do have the word of call if they decide to do it.
1:02:28I have the feeling that they're not really...
1:02:31I'm not interested in it anymore.
1:02:32I think, and maybe Vietnam for some reason is of some interest.
1:02:36You know why they're not interested?
1:02:40They've run out of people.
1:02:42There's a lot of raw meat.
1:02:43People are not that interested.
1:02:45They haven't found the story to be of that great public interest.
1:02:48Networks don't keep things on unless they play to the public interest.
1:02:53They play to the audiences.
1:02:54Don't you agree?
1:02:55The newspapers, they don't give a shit.
1:02:58The networks have to.
1:03:09You know, the way I handled the death, that offensive, in my mind, it was about right, where I said that Abraham said that in the South Vietnamese line, the offensive might come, that their lines would bend and that they would not break.
1:03:24And that was all I said.
1:03:25Now that's the way it moves.
1:03:27You don't say that you're not, everything's gonna come out right or anything like that.
1:03:30The lines always bend in war.
1:03:33You lose.
1:03:34Christ did.
1:03:36That's what we want, though, it seems to be, is that as far as I expect to lose a few, we're not worried about it there.
1:03:46We'll go on and on.
1:03:47The ups and downs.
1:04:00Rather than saying we have full confidence they're not going to lose an inch, they'll kill all those dirty companies.
1:04:06That hasn't been in anything.
1:04:07No, it hasn't.
1:04:08The only thing is, this is part of an evaluation that had been used, and this is the press doing it.
1:04:16If you lose city, it's the same damn thing as an election thing.
1:04:21If you get 78%, that's good.
1:04:23If you only get 75, then that's bad.
1:04:25They're saying, we'll lose this city.
1:04:26It'll be all right.
1:04:28But if we lose the whole province or lose the next city, we're in trouble.
1:04:33And if we lose the third one, then it's a disaster.
1:04:37And we keep setting up measuring scales.
1:04:39We don't want a measuring scale on this.
1:04:41What you want is a mushy thing.
1:04:44It says we've started some losses.
1:04:45This is one of the times where there is some chance that because of the intensity of what we're going to do, you may get a chance for a negotiation.
1:04:56Having in mind, they see the election coming up.
1:05:02Having in mind, we will demonstrate when the weather clears how goddamn tough it's going to be after the election.
1:05:12Now, if that happens, of course, they'll wash it all away.
1:05:15In the meantime, we just sort of have to see it through.
1:05:22Now, we have to find a way to fight the press all the time on these things.
1:05:26That's right.
1:05:29Well, we're in a ridiculous position.
1:05:31If we're in a war where our normal casualty rate is two a week, and when it goes up to ten, they'll say casualty's
1:05:41I wonder about five times what they were the week before.
1:05:43We know that.
1:05:44But we've survived it.
1:05:53We've survived it some more.
1:05:55Oh, sure.
1:05:56I mean, I think, don't let the staff get what they're prepared to do.
1:05:59They're not.
1:05:59They're not.
1:06:00They're not.
1:06:00I can't tell you how strong they are.
1:06:02I can't go here.
1:06:03No, I think it's good they have the test now.
1:06:05It's good they've had the ITT in that sense.
1:06:07It's good they have this in that sense.
1:06:10These boys are all going to grow up now.
1:06:11They're going to have one hell of a battle.
1:06:13You know what I mean?
1:06:14They'll just go back and forth and surge and this and that.
1:06:18I mean, it's not sufficient to be attacking them.
1:06:20You think this is rough.
1:06:21Wait a minute.
1:06:21Wait a minute.
1:06:22These guys are after blood, right?
1:06:23The press.
1:06:23So keep them.
1:06:24Keep them out there.
1:06:26Keep them out there.
1:06:28Well, probably are, and they should be.
1:06:31It's the Congress.
1:06:32Those guys, those are the ones that are going to go out and call the front line.
1:06:41I guess people generally fall out of this, you know, having to go, you know.
1:06:49It's just never better.
1:06:50There's no way.
1:06:51We're going as well as we possibly can, fighting a terribly difficult battle, you know, as best we possibly can.
1:06:58Everybody's going to keep us cool, fighting effectively.
1:08:51Let me come to the other thing.
1:09:13Can we, could we just get ahead?
1:09:17He has done much for us, you know, when we've asked, you know, left the gridiron, turned that down and the rest.
1:09:23Could we just get him to go do the 101st Airborne?
1:09:27But from our standpoint, we were doing it for a very fundamental reason.
1:09:30It was a good story on the war, who Vietnam was leading and the rest.
1:09:34This week, Bob, there ain't going to be any good story on the war.
1:09:37It is going to turn around by that time, you know.
1:09:41It's going to ebb and flow.
1:09:42And if we change it tomorrow, it's too late.
1:09:45Now, maybe we'll go down there.
1:09:48And my view is that, why don't you just...
1:09:53and see if we can do the Catholic thing on Thursday, if you get my mind.
1:09:58I know we've got an irreconcilable contract with the Catholics that I have to have this education, and I've just gotten to it.
1:10:06And I just think we have to write it out, and I'll find another time to go to Kentucky, as far as going to Kentucky is concerned.
1:10:15Well, this has nothing to do with going to Kentucky.
1:10:23I really feel that way.
1:10:37No, we better cease.
1:10:37We better cease this.
1:10:41But I do think that, uh, find something that, that we can get by calling on the language.
1:10:49And, uh, and then I think I ought to,
1:10:55Give that a pop.
1:10:56Give that a feel.
1:11:32I don't feel there's a problem with what you were concerned about.
1:11:46Oh, about the gridiron?
1:11:47Oh, yeah, I see.
1:11:48The other side.
1:11:49I do think there's a problem to a degree in being around here this weekend, yes.
1:12:14Well, I don't think it's an inspirational one.
1:12:16If you hear it, you just hear it.
1:12:20That's all.
1:12:21Go to Camp David.
1:12:22Well, David, we wouldn't look.
1:12:24Go to Camp David Friday night.
1:12:25Yeah.
1:12:26So you're not around here at all on Saturday.
1:12:28And don't come back.
1:12:29I just wonder if the fact that I'm at Camp David is not too bad an excuse in any event.
1:12:35What the hell is that?
1:12:37It's not.
1:12:38It's not a way, but...
1:12:42Camp David compared to a Canadian prison.
1:12:53It just won't, it's, you don't play the away thing.
1:12:56You just, you're at Camp David, you just, that's all, you turned it down.
1:13:00Right.
1:13:00Why wasn't he here?
1:13:01Because he didn't come.
1:13:03That's the way to do it.
1:13:04Don't give excuses.
1:13:04You don't say, because he was away, you just say he didn't come this year.
1:13:10It's a way that we play it anyway.
1:13:14And there isn't anybody other than those thousand people or 500 or whatever it is that gives a good god damn whether you do it or not.
1:13:22It's like a boy and a girl.
1:13:24Not quality, but laughs.
1:13:29But we'll play this one out by ear.
1:13:35If we get some sort of a break, things may be at a point where you don't know if you can do it, but if we get some sort of a break that it begins to turn some, can you ever go?
1:13:43I can.
1:13:44I'd rather take the chance to go if you can do it.
1:13:47I know that.
1:13:47That's where I belong.
1:13:49But if you can't do it, why not?
1:13:50And if you can't, and just, and my view is that I might.
1:13:55even take the chance to go Friday.
1:13:56And all I'm doing is I can go Friday at noon, which of course is a less high profile.
1:14:02I've been going down for a couple of days.
1:14:07That is something I thought might work in any event, if I go Friday at noon.
1:14:12I could get down there in time for, you know, a good swim.
1:14:16And, uh, maybe eat about one o'clock or so.
1:14:21We could do that.
1:14:21And, uh, and come back Sunday night.
1:14:23You have to come back Sunday night.
1:14:25Oh, I understand that.
1:14:26But that's, that's, that's a good time, huh?
1:14:28Just to live your day and a half.
1:14:37Do you come after dinner Sunday night?
1:14:57And we can see, right?
1:15:05The 101st, by the way.
1:15:06We gotta get in.
1:15:24As a matter of fact, if you don't mind, we might set it up in Portland, Virginia, just to check to see whether they've got one over time.
1:15:32And they will know until we make a plan as to whether we do that or not.
1:16:50It was exactly that.
1:16:52I had a breathing problem.
1:16:56I tell you, it was really total sabotage.
1:16:59I finally, they gave me a half-hour breathing when they were getting us.
1:17:04Henry, I told Bob now that I was thinking that he said that he'd talk to you about a few things.
1:17:13I said, I thought we should just get out of it, and we could.
1:17:20Well, it really could turn bad this week.
1:17:22It now turns out, which they hadn't told us, which I found out by the purest accident, that two residents of that division up there have been destroyed, of the northern of the South Vietnamese division.
1:17:39I found that out simply by factoring them
1:17:43This is the sort of information they should flash over here.
1:17:47We can't be kidded.
1:17:50Now, of course, there's a 3-1 North Vietnamese superiority against the new division.
1:17:55It should be expected.
1:17:56All of this is right.
1:17:59They have formed a defensive line.
1:18:04There's a chance of holding it.
1:18:05But what the military have to get, my instinct is, as it was with Nansan,
1:18:12There's some blight on that operation.
1:18:15And Mora has to know that there's an enormous sense of urgency here and that we want this thing.
1:18:22I think Laird has drilled into their heads so much to do nothing that they just don't react.
1:18:29I completely agree with you.
1:18:32We cannot afford to lose now.
1:18:35We will not get any awards for restraining this deceit.
1:18:41No, you didn't talk to me.
1:18:44The press said lies.
1:18:45The press is lying.
1:18:46They flew exactly.
1:18:47We gave them new authorities yesterday.
1:18:51They dispatched 500 soldiers.
1:18:53They flew 136.
1:18:55It's interesting to know why they didn't fly more.
1:19:02And we can't... Well, then why don't they fly the others in the P3 area?
1:19:08Why don't they do what you... Why is your instinct always for...
1:19:13When we talked yesterday, you said, let's fly with them somewhere.
1:19:19And, I mean, we can pull this one out, but we've got to drill into their head that the purpose is not...
1:19:28to hide things from the White House, and the purpose is not PR.
1:19:31The purpose is to get this damn operation stopped.
1:19:36Of course, now they're coming up against the First Division.
1:19:38They have moved up two regiments.
1:19:40Well, can't they move some divisions over there?
1:19:42This idea that they live on the ground, how about it?
1:19:45No, no, they are moving.
1:19:46They've got more men south than they've got in the north.
1:19:49They have moved.
1:19:50They cannot get their ass out of there.
1:19:52They've moved one of the strategic.
1:19:53They've moved two.
1:19:55Marine brigades up from Saigon into that area.
1:19:59They've moved one division from Catalda to Saigon to replace the division.
1:20:04So they are doing it.
1:20:07And if they are... What happens if you're able to see that they're destroyed or are they surrounded, captured, or while they're... Well, of course... Or did they run?
1:20:15I've asked them to find out.
1:20:17All I've mind extracted from them is that they're combat ineffective, which means...
1:20:25But we have to, the major thing is to build up enough of a fire on the moor and rush to make it absolutely clear that this thing is...
1:20:35I want to see them in the four-year Western Committee.
1:20:39That's better.
1:20:40Are they coming in?
1:20:40Are they coming in?
1:20:41I'll bring them in.
1:20:44I'll bring them in.
1:20:45Actually, you should knock his date with him.
1:20:47I'll just tell him.
1:20:51Five minutes.
1:20:52That's all.
1:20:53I'll get them up here.
1:20:55Because that will affect the whole situation.
1:21:04You must be informed in a timely fashion.
1:21:07There's no excuse that if you are not kept, that you must be kept currently informed and that you send an order over to that effect.
1:21:14Second, that Moore is responsible to see that the command conducts itself in the most aggressive fashion possible.
1:21:23And then when they don't use their maximum resources, you'll want to know why.
1:21:26We're 500 sorties authorized.
1:21:28Why was it limited to 500?
1:21:29Why not 5,000?
1:21:30That's their capacity.
1:21:31That's all they got.
1:21:33Why?
1:21:34That's all.
1:21:34I guess I've ordered there to make you have only 500 sorties.
1:21:38About 550 is all they can do.
1:21:39Why?
1:21:41That's all the resources left there.
1:21:45A little under.
1:21:47130, sir.
1:21:47About 100.
1:21:50And I would trust
1:21:52do that, and that will get them the message and say this, we will... What about the T-52s and that 25-mile donkey?
1:22:00Have you put that order out yet?
1:22:03No, because I asked them to give us a paper on what could be done by noon today, but they haven't gone in with the 25-mile belt with the automatic flanger yet.
1:22:16In fact, we should make that belt a little further.
1:22:18We should go up to Dong Hoi, which is a major transshipment point, which I think is about 30 miles.
1:22:23Make it 40 if necessary.
1:22:27Because Dong Hoi is the best place.
1:22:32And also, that's about 30, 35 miles.
1:22:33Have we got the order out yet?
1:22:35No, I'm getting it to them.
1:22:38What about the B-52s that, in other words, you want to... You might ask.
1:22:41You might ask more of us.
1:22:42We ask, and you'll have a long time to answer, but I think it's time.
1:22:46No more of you.
1:22:48Well, let's wait with it until they do the other strikes in there.
1:22:56They can't do anything now anyway before the end of the day.
1:23:05But, God, we've been through... What's the attitude of the military?
1:23:12Are they panicking?
1:23:13No.
1:23:14I think what is happening, Mr. President...
1:23:15I mean, what's Abrams at?
1:23:17Is he in a panic?
1:23:18No.
1:23:18Can't you get a hold of that fellow?
1:23:21We've got a ambassador out there.
1:23:22Is he off seeing his wife?
1:23:24He was off seeing his wife, but he's on his way back.
1:23:26He's on his way back.
1:23:28All right.
1:23:29Get Whitehouse in.
1:23:34As soon as Funker is back, I'm going to send him a message to speak like a Dutch uncle to Abrams.
1:23:38Thank you.
1:23:40Thank you.
1:23:41I think that the...
1:23:42It doesn't need to be awesome.
1:23:45You know that.
1:23:46I think that the problem with Abrams is that Laird must have drilled into his head that he owes his promotion to Laird.
1:23:56And this general atmosphere didn't land so much as this son of a bitch did.
1:24:00Well, I'm going to tell the, I'm going to tell the lawyer today that Abrams from the link hangs on this.
1:24:06If he knows about it, yeah.
1:24:09Unless he becomes more aggressive, I want him to know that I cannot perform as promoted as his promotion.
1:24:17I'm going to be tough and tough.
1:24:19I want you to tell Larry that.
1:24:20I will tell him that.
1:24:22You tell Larry that I have been very disappointed in Abrams' conduct, that he's not been aggressive, he has not reported things, and he used to tell him that he should stop training, put this down.
1:24:33He used to stop training for the balance of this thing.
1:24:37and it's to be an instrument of aggressive operation.
1:24:39Well, that scared the shit out of us.
1:24:44And I'll admit you that they forgot to give hundreds of updates.
1:24:48But we've gone through worse than this, Mr. President.
1:24:51This is the last for us.
1:24:52Oh, Henry, one other thing that I stated to you in your Wednesday that you ought to cover.
1:24:56Haldeman made the point, and I sort of thought that Indy was, that New York had this in mind.
1:25:03He said that he thought he had to get into the publicity on this, and it was being badly handled in this town.
1:25:09He said that we ought to predict that there would be lost cities.
1:25:13We ought to predict we're going to be lost in territory, because as we predicted in the fencing a few months ago, and it didn't come to help us,
1:25:21So we ought to predict that rather than saying that they are going to hold and all that sort of thing.
1:25:25Now, you see, my line was the right line where I said the lines would bend, but that General Akers said that he felt they would not break.
1:25:32All right, now, we can say that.
1:25:34We don't want to predict any.
1:25:37We just predicted, well, this is an offensive.
1:25:39The offensive will gain.
1:25:40We anticipated that.
1:25:42We anticipated that this will happen.
1:25:44And what are you doing on that kind of public?
1:25:46I have a question.
1:25:46I don't see Ben Scali to put that out.
1:25:48You said that you expected to do something.
1:25:51And we expect a little bit more.
1:25:53And we may expect a little bit more.
1:25:56We may.
1:25:56And I told them, I told your client this morning that I thought we would, we might well lose one tree, we would probably lose one tree, we could easily lose time and just as example.
1:26:08Yeah.
1:26:09And that this, we can always expect.
1:26:14I personally don't believe they can hold these places except one tree if they take it.
1:26:19the North Indian nation, that can't open.
1:26:22Because they can't run out of supplies.
1:26:25Get your bomb and hell of a supply line.
1:26:27Get up here.
1:31:24Are you ready to get out of the water now?
1:31:29Yeah, right over there.

Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Vietnam War and North Vietnamese Offensive

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Also recorded on April 3, 1972

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