Nixon & Ehrlichman on Busing and Law and Order

2:27Well, we're hatching a lot of plots.
2:40We've had a long article by Pickle that appeared this week that I think is going to
2:50It's going to screw up the detail pretty badly as far as the Congress is concerned.
2:55Yeah.
2:56It's unconstitutional.
3:01And it's in the New Republic.
3:04But it's going to get a lot of circulation among the opinion makers.
3:09I think one thing we have to do is muddy those waters quickly.
3:14Well, with our friend Bork, who's also a constitutional lawyer, Bickel's colleague up there,
3:21We're going to get him down this week, and we're going to have a press conference.
3:26And put him on the front if he's willing to do it.
3:29We're still negotiating with him on the way of doing it.
3:33If he won't come, why don't we go out and do it?
3:36But I think we have to get the other side of it out this week, and that will stir up some controversy, and it will get the thing lit up again.
3:47We've got our friend Mrs. McCabe coming along.
3:52She's about, what now, seven days out, six days out, something of that kind.
4:01And I think this woman is walking down from Michigan.
4:05And that's going to light the issue up.
4:08Is she walking down?
4:09She's against busing?
4:11She's against busing, yeah.
4:12She's this National Action Group of Pontiac.
4:17So we'll be playing off her next week.
4:20You think it'll be a big play?
4:22Yeah, that'll be a big play.
4:25Big play.
4:25There's a hell of a fine article on busing.
4:28I don't know if you ever see this in the National Journal, but we're going to get a lot of regrets of this and get it around.
4:35And they have... No, this is a political piece that's done here on issues before the Congress.
4:45and in the government.
4:46It's probably the authoritative outfit down here now.
4:51No ads, straight back, and just about as factual as you can get.
5:00They've got Mrs. McCabe in here.
5:02She's going to have a rally down here on the 29th.
5:04But their analysis of the busing thing covers the opposition candidates, the situation in Congress,
7:05Well, we'd do that if we can't get to Bork.
7:17See, Bork has the advantage of being Ivy League.
7:25Sure.
7:26Bork is better.
7:26He'll do it.
7:27Yeah, he'll do it.
7:28And we think he did.
7:29Yeah.
7:33So, anyway, we're working on that.
7:37And that'll be this week and that'll be our meeting.
7:39Where do we go?
7:40I think the main, well, first, in the meantime, how are we doing getting Southerners understood about that?
7:48I think better.
7:49That's coming along.
7:50Yeah, I really think it is.
7:51But that's being done on an individual context.
7:53We all see it.
7:55And the Marvin group is moving through the South.
7:57They're going back around, though.
7:59And what they're going to do is use the pretext of disbanding these biracial committees.
8:05They've done all they can do now.
8:07So they're going to have an event in each of the southern states where they disband those committees.
8:12And then Margaret O'Quack bussing again each time.
8:16Now, of course, the reopening of the cases has, of course, got a hell of a play because Clangy said it, and actually they were doing it in order to hurt it.
8:23But nevertheless,
8:25That was probably a good thing from our side.
8:27It came out very clear.
8:29But he said, yeah, absolutely agree to reopen it.
8:31It does reopen the kitchens.
8:32He has passed the law.
8:33But John, as far as what you expect will happen is concerned.
8:38So this is where we see where we are.
8:41As I understand it, you don't need the moratorium to pass.
8:43I know.
8:44You will not be included in the conference report.
8:46I seriously doubt it.
8:47There's still a chance, but I doubt it very seriously.
8:49So what do we do if we do?
8:51We'll kick the stuff inside of the conference at this point.
8:54See, the message in this whole thing is the president is against busing.
8:59Yeah, yeah, yeah.
9:00And we can do that.
9:01We can do it either way.
9:02The thing you should do, if you will, is treat it solely as a public relations exercise.
9:08You're going to want it.
9:10and just get out and press the signals by saying I'm dead.
9:13By the same token, it's for better education for the poor goddamn blacks, which we own.
9:19Well, that's make way.
9:22The only purpose for that is not for blacks.
9:27Let us be a little bit more, you see, that's all I can.
9:32Or do you agree?
9:34I don't think it matters.
9:35I don't think it matters.
9:38Well, here's what happens here.
9:41You're not extreme enough to pick up all the anti-busing people.
9:48That's the point.
9:49Do you think that was a mistake?
9:51No, I don't.
9:52Looking back, do you think it was a mistake?
9:55We talked about it at the time, and I said, well, maybe we're buying the worst of both worlds.
10:00Well, it's too soon to know.
10:04It's interesting to see how these fellows analyze.
10:09And they think you've dominated the middle position.
10:15and that that's where most of the fish are.
10:18Now, that's probably right.
10:19Most people don't want to be black.
10:23They don't want to be.
10:24The Constitutional Amendment thing really is, as you say, a blunt instrument.
10:29It won't work.
10:30It won't work.
10:31Do we have to come to that?
10:33Well, here's what you can do.
10:35You can go around the country saying, I'm against busing.
10:38The Congress can still enact this moratorium when it comes back in January.
10:43elect a congressman who will vote for the moratorium.
10:46If we can't get a congressman to vote for the moratorium, then we're going to go for the constitutional amendment.
10:51Of course, the congressman won't vote for the moratorium if he can't pass the constitutional amendment.
10:55Well, all right, but let's not go into that.
10:57I don't think you need to be quite that discreet.
11:00I'm not going to lie.
11:01Yeah, yeah, but I think you can use this as sort of a, as you've talked to your right, as you can go around being foreign in those circumstances.
11:14But I think we can get the big blank title clear.
11:17You prepare, in case I probably may have a short answer.
11:26I don't want to give any long guesses.
11:29Guess is answer.
11:31Just if you would work on an answer, I'm on bussing.
11:35Not red hot, but you can better.
11:39Very low key.
11:40I'm against it.
11:42This is a super article in that it summarizes all the northern cities that are about to fall.
11:49Detroit, Indianapolis, Denver.
11:52Well, like Richmond.
12:11where judges have said, I can't solve this problem without including the suburbs.
12:16I want the suburbs joined in this lawsuit.
12:18I'll now hear the case with them as parties.
12:21Well, at least one thing we are getting credit for, John, I presume, are for our interventions.
12:26That's right.
12:27Is that making local news?
12:28It's making local news, but not with maximum punch.
12:31As a matter of fact, I've just come from being where we've been talking about this.
12:35And it may be that what we want to do, oh, excuse me, it's getting awry, but rather than have Pat Gray stand all over the White House and announce that we're going to intervene here and intervene there, something ought to go to that community.
12:48It's worth the trip to go to Grand Rapids and announce that we're going to intervene.
12:54And, well, I can go, Morgan can go, Gray can go, there are a lot of people who can go.
12:59I'm not sure that it is better to have a director in the White House.
13:03And you could go out and you make a better appearance than either of the other two.
13:06You could go out and you understand it and say, I come here authorized by the President and the Attorney.
13:13You sit down with the U.S. Attorney.
13:14He's approved the intervention in this case by the U.S., by the Department of Justice for these reasons.
13:21So you plan some tricks.
13:22Get the hell out there.
13:24And we should be getting the mission the time we can.
13:26If we still have any left to intervene in, I don't know.
13:30Well, see, we turned Pat Gray off last week.
13:33We didn't have him announce all of the new interventions.
13:35Yeah, because of the findings problem.
13:38Well, we were going to get all screwed up in that.
13:41And so we've got a few of those backlogs.
13:43And I will.
13:44I'll get out and do the programs and the intentions.
13:47That will be the best way that it's going to be safe.
13:50The President has authorized you to come to announce this decision by directing the Attorney General to intervene
14:01Yeah, we'll get your friend Sneed up from Duke or somebody like that.
14:28I don't know what grade he'd be in.
14:30He's all right.
14:32He scored it.
14:33Well, this is your government.
14:35Get him out of there.
14:36That would be excellent.
14:38All these guys are potential judges, you understand.
14:42They understand.
14:43And by God, let them know.
14:45I thought of Steve the other day.
14:47We were talking about Attorney General.
14:48I said, I'm going to go with this little scheme.
14:52The power of paper.
14:53I said, I'm not Steve.
14:56It's good enough, but right now, it doesn't look like we're going to play them when we see them.
15:06We've now offered to plant them down.
15:09They're screwing around about that.
15:11That's right here.
15:13That's great.
15:13That's great.
15:14We can use all of the bait we can get right now.
15:16How about having that debated tomorrow, too?
15:18Well, that is... We'll have to take it off tomorrow and be in that session for a while, you know.
15:24See, there's a Senate session...
15:25For the war business, yeah.
15:27I'll toss this article in your weekend reading and you might look at some of the voting records and some of that kind of stuff.
15:38It's pretty fascinating the way these records have changed their spots up there.
15:49Do you have any doubts yourself about the wisdom?
15:51I mean, not the wisdom.
15:53Wisdom is not the question.
15:58But basically, the rightness of what we've done.
16:00Now, you're exactly the only one who believes.
16:03Could we just have let this thing go?
16:05Now, we couldn't do it.
16:07I mean, when they say it, that's not a charity.
16:09It's a part of their goddamn job.
16:11That's evidence of cases.
16:13Isn't that true?
16:13You see, I mean, you read the
16:18their lips squealing around like news magazines, and you'd think that, gosh, we were horrible people.
16:27What would they do?
16:28What really would they do?
16:30They would compulsory basis squeeze, isn't that what they wanted?
16:35They wanted revenge.
16:37Revenge on whom?
16:38Revenge on the white middle class who moved to the suburbs.
16:46In other words, where did they fit in then?
16:50What the hell did they, I'm speaking concretely, do you mean they send their kids to private schools?
16:55Well, I'm doing a little check on that in response to your suggestion.
16:59We're going to get a catalog of who these
17:03Who of these reporters around here have kids and where do they go to school?
17:08Great.
17:08Great.
17:09So that I could use that in the press conference.
17:11You can use it.
17:11You know, if I could go to an international press conference, I said, I'd check if the reporters in this room were actually 95% of you.
17:19There are only 5% of you that have your people.
17:21Wow.
17:22Only 5% of you live in the district.
17:24Yeah.
17:25And of the 5% who live in the district, only .003% of you have children.
17:29No.
17:30The way we know how to do it.
17:34I would say, of all the reporters that live in the D.F., the Columbia area, that only so many have even on your right.
17:41You're right.
17:42If you get in the district, there's too many of them to be embarrassed every day.
17:45Well, I get your point.
17:47Those reporters who live in the District of Columbia,
17:51one percent and i'm thinking also the person you see basically that doesn't screw them enough though moving they've moved out of the district it's white people have that too but what i was thinking if if uh climate each dryer on meat press right now you got no vaccine
18:06We've got to know where Novak's kids go to school.
18:08You've got kids.
18:10You know, that has been very disturbing to some of the Democratic candidates.
18:13The fact that only Scoot Jackson has his kids in a public school.
18:18Right?
18:18And we drum that all the time.
18:21Yes.
18:21As I was speaking to Drummond, did you or did you not get in the...
18:25Washington cried, they used to cry about crime, and then Prefuse would play at the Washington Post this morning.
18:30I'll tell you what I'm going to do.
18:32I don't think Bob told you.
18:32He told me you were going to bring him in today, and I said, well, I'm never going to bring him in today.
18:36I'm going to bring him in a little later on when we get another bounce on this.
18:42And I don't think this is going to be Thursday.
18:45When you get another bounce?
18:47Yes.
18:47And I'm going to go out to the morning briefing on Thursday.
18:52And I will have had the meeting with him.
18:54Well, my point is, how do you get out of the balance?
18:56There's going to be new statistics.
18:58Well, no, but there's going to be another story out of this.
19:03You're going to create one.
19:04And then I'm going to create one here by saying, this morning I had a meeting with the same group that I met with, and they came to you and they talked about terrorizing you.
19:15Business was leaving.
19:16I heard it now.
19:16They were terrorized.
19:17Business was leaving the city.
19:19People were moving out of the city.
19:20They had dangers to do something about it.
19:22Crime capital of the world, the president described it in the campaign in 1968.
19:27And he was correct, because it was number one or two or three in crime year after year.
19:31It was always in the top three, Washington, D.C. Now it's at the bottom of the list.
19:36In other words, he had a hard time.
19:39Crime capital of the world.
19:40I don't see that.
19:40There are a few singers out there.
19:44That is quite a record, isn't it?
19:46It really is.
19:47Well, and it helps so much with all the other Lockhart things.
19:52That's what I meant.
19:53It's about the only thing a law and order agreement can get, because I notice that we're constantly hammered.
19:57You know, the Democrats are saying LEAA is a failure, and this is not the latest in failure.
20:02It would be worse to invest earlier than use this.
20:04LEAA is where we got the money to do the job of the District of Columbia.
20:10The difference in ingredient is what was done with the money after it got there.
20:15That's it.
20:18We're hurting other people.
20:22That's the missing ingredient.
20:25Do you have any thoughts on the dope thing, Mr. Anymore?
20:28I mean, there's no more spectaculars there.
20:31Well, I'll tell you what we've been talking about just now upstairs is getting this as the vice president's issue for a while.
20:39Great.
20:40And letting him get out and move around on narcotics.
20:44He's never touched it.
20:45Hasn't he?
21:04be ideal for it, because he could be for these things.
21:07He could be for both sides of it, law enforcement and rehabilitation.
21:12He could be balanced on it.
21:13He could excoriate the pushers.
21:25Well, that's what we've come up with today as a new frontier to this thing.
21:33And we're getting together a fact sheet with more up-to-date facts to give him to try and sell him on.
21:42I'm going to do quite a stylized set of those one-page fact sheets with a logo so that it's identified as coming from you.
21:52And we'll try and get out a minimum of one, but probably two a week now.
21:58We've got a whole bunch of them in train.
22:02And then get the guys to call a few of them and get members talking about the allergies that this fact sheet we're getting from the White House is terrific.
22:11You know, they could start getting that one.
22:13All right.
22:15And then if they start talking about it, it's interesting.
22:20Most of them don't know what the hell to talk about, John.
22:24That's right, speeches.
22:24That's right.
22:25Most Congressmen, they love speeches.
22:27Well, they do.
22:28We can lay before them three points on the subject.
22:33And they can make a 10-minute, 12-minute speech on that.
22:37And they can learn it all off one piece of paper.
22:41And as the President mentioned, a minimum of five up to ten times on that piece of paper.
22:48And hopefully they'll mention you once, and we'll be that much ahead.
22:57But I think we have to merchandise this.
22:58I think we really have to lay it out for them.
23:04So we'll be starting that this week.
23:07I noticed, incidentally, speaking on another subject, that the economic figures were pretty good.
23:17Yeah, I'll say that.
23:17What did you think?
23:18Yeah, first quarter.
23:20If that inventory ever catches up, we're in for a hell of a boom.
23:24The inventory is still low.
23:25Still very, very low.
23:29Sure.
23:31But that's a big backlog of demand that hasn't yet been released.
23:43But the economy did move some depth.
23:45It's very much so.
23:49Ezra Solomon was at the morning staff meeting and was giving us a rundown on this.
23:53He's very bullish.
23:53Is he?
23:54He's very encouraged.
23:58What is the CDI?
23:58I don't know.
24:02Probably.
24:03Well, it can't be worse than last month.
24:05Now, last month was a bad, worse bounce, I think.
24:08But on the other hand, a slight decrease, well, not decrease, but a decrease in the wholesale food price.
24:15But that will not be felt this month, unfortunately.
24:17It will the next month.
24:23which might have picked up toward the end of its running down.
24:27That issue becomes...
24:28It's a funny thing.
24:30People think of the goddamn thing that it's being written about.
24:33Dead meat, let's face it.
24:38A smart housewife going into the store doesn't have to be all that worried about it, unless she's insisting on beef.
24:47You've got chicken.
24:49You've got all that crap.
24:50But she comes on the bitches about it.
24:52That's right.
24:53And my point, no.
24:54That is my point.
24:55But she'll be about it more, too, if it's on the television.
24:59Oh, sure.
25:00That's my point.
25:01Absolutely.
25:01It's the issue.
25:02Let's just say everybody's always bitching about the crisis.
25:05I remember when the depression, when they were 22 cents a dozen, people thought they should be 18 cents a dozen.
25:11And the point about it is everybody lives above his means.
25:15all housewives, your family and mine, say, God, I have prices that are too high.
25:19The grocery bill is too high.
25:21What am I going to do?
25:21We can't buy shoes for the kids.
25:23The point is, whether we're playing for it or not.
25:27Well, but if you had to have this flare-up, and if you had to have a Life magazine story on it, this is the time to have it.
25:35Because it's a monumental job line.
25:39Fires drive those prices down for a while.
25:43Now you have the natural...
25:45easing up of prices in the summertime.
25:47He's got all the fresh produce coming in and everybody buys corn on the cob and all that kind of stuff.
25:51Oh, he's well under control.
25:54He's talking about Russia?
25:56Oh, yeah.
25:57He was called on that
26:14And he understood completely.
26:17He's true.
26:18He was totally tracking.
26:20He was totally tracking.
26:22He's a hell of a fighter.
26:23He just helped off the farm, though.
26:25If you at any time see anything turn up and you want him to deviate or change the line or try a new line, all you need to do is tell Ken or tell me, and he'll come around just like that.
26:37He's totally trackable.
26:39Trackable.
26:40He's very political.
26:42Yeah, yeah.
26:42He's good.
26:43And he's now being given praise in the, yeah, I was out in Denver this weekend and there was quite an article about what a change he has made in the viewpoint of the farmer.
26:55He told me today briefly about things that turned around in the farm.
26:59My own view is that they weren't that bad, but nevertheless, whether they were bad or they were indifferent, at least they're more positive.
27:06The farmer's always a pitcher.
27:08You never can tell about the farmer until you give him a choice.
27:11But now, the farmer is doing better.
27:14Yeah, the moose test.
27:15Well, the moose test.
27:17I don't know whether he's got any more dollars in his pocket, but the mood in the agricultural area is... Yeah, that's quite a story.
27:27That's quite a story.
27:28That's for sure.
27:30But it is a real...
27:32The jaw-bone has been good.
27:37I think it's all of the good.
27:40All of the good.
27:46We've done enough.
27:47What have you done?
27:48Well, it's going on, as you know.
27:50Peterson had the guys in about shoes, and this indirect... Oh, sure.
27:55Yeah, he had the shoe manufacturers...
27:58Shoes are ridiculous.
27:59Yeah, and it's because of the price of hides.
28:02They say.
28:03Well, he tells me that's true.
28:06And the hides are in very short supply worldwide.
28:10I see.
28:10And so he had everybody in, and he jaw-boned the hell out of them last weekend.
28:15Now, you see, we can do that.
28:19Well, and you don't have to do it.
28:21See, these guys will do it for you.
28:24Sure.
28:25And so we're concerned.
28:28And it does have the effect of burning prices down.
28:31It sure does.
28:33Food prices are down, but they are.
28:36No, they're down.
28:40And what you had is you had market chains.
28:43that have either frozen or reduced a list of things.
28:47And they're running big ads in their papers about us.
28:49Safeway's running big ads in the local paper.
28:52Are we scaring them?
28:53Sure.
28:53You're darn right.
28:54They don't like to be the butt of criticism.
28:56They also don't like criticism.
28:59They figure we just might slap the goddamn control on here.
29:02It would be a horrible thing for the minister to repeat it over and over again on us.
29:07Well, they hate it.
29:09I'd hate it too, kind of.
29:10It'd be a terrible thing.
29:10But I'm going to try to think about you in the war.
29:14Yeah.
29:14Couldn't even work.
29:15Couldn't even work.
29:16Not at all.
29:17I don't think it would.
29:17And, uh... Oh, the cattle growers say, well, that's fine.
29:21We'll just keep our cattle off the market.
29:22Where do we stand?
29:24Yeah, I asked them.
29:25I finally, uh, got a real deal.
29:31They're working on a, uh... That's a crime.
29:33That's a crime.
29:36Prices.
29:36Prices.
29:37Now, what about the tax, property tax?
29:40Well, I've got an appointment.
29:42I don't know what the hell you do about property tax in my school.
29:48Yeah.
29:49We're in a holding pattern right now because of this ACIR thing, but it won't wait.
29:54So I've made an appointment to see John Connolly tomorrow afternoon.
29:58I sent him quite a long option paper on the subject.
30:02I sent you an outline of it, which you probably didn't get, but...
30:05I'm going to wait for your discussion.
30:07Yeah.
30:08I felt that was the place to start.
30:10And there are several action-forcing events.
30:13We can't wait on this thing for the ACIR or anybody else.
30:17The boys have got to testify on the debt ceiling.
30:20Who?
30:21Well, Connolly, Schultz, Stein.
30:25And the loophole thing is going to come popping out.
30:27Connolly's got a good answer.
30:29Go ahead.
30:29Well...
30:30He thinks he does.
30:32At the same time, Wilbur Mills has announced he's not going to take up health this year.
30:38He is, is he not?
30:42Well, that leaves a very big vacuum on the House Ways and Means Committee after we get through with pensions.
30:46Aren't you just glad he isn't?
30:48Oh, delighted he is.
30:50Delighted.
30:51But that means that the House Ways and Means Committee could handle a tax bill.
30:56They may have already handled revenue.
30:59That's right.
31:00That's clear to committee.
31:02What about pension?
31:03Pension are foreign.
31:05And then where is the HR1?
31:07HR1 languishes in the Senate Finance Committee.
31:10And they are screwed up too.
31:11It won't come out of the way.
31:12Well, something will come out of the committee.
31:14We had the Republicans down here the other day, and we told them that loans changes cost $30 million.
31:21And so they all went out of here shaking and went up on the Hill of Caucus and decided that the Republicans were going to have to resist the majority on the committee.
31:31And so now that committee is more screwed up than it was before.
31:34$30 million a year?
31:36Yeah, first year.
31:39So, well, we did that just to screw it up, and it did.
31:48Well, yeah, I haven't heard from him yet.
31:50He blasted you on Flanagan, which I think was probably a reaction to this, but I don't know.
31:58Anyhow, so there's H.R.
32:001.
32:00But we've got planning now, so it's not going to be a hard time.
32:04Unless he's going to say, no, Irvin, I think Irvin accepts planning.
32:11I said he would.
32:12Irvin said he would.
32:16I don't either, but I just took Long's reaction as sort of a...
32:22I really think it was because we flanked him with the Republican Senate Committee, but I don't know.
32:27Anyhow, revenue sharing is backed up behind that in the Senate Finance Committee.
32:34Do you think we're going to get it this year?
32:36It would be a minor miracle.
32:37Do you hold on?
32:38George holds on.
32:39Do you want to?
32:40No, we've had our win.
32:42We've rolled Wilbur.
32:44That's satisfaction.
32:46What do you think in terms of those people?
32:48That doesn't make any difference.
32:50It doesn't make any difference at all.
32:51And on revenue, man, for those people that are interested in it, that's good.
32:55Whoa, that led to a noble fight.
32:57Hell, you're going to get a medal from the mayor if you ever go around and collect it.
33:02All right.
33:05I think this, that the best maneuver available to us, and this is what I'm going to urge on economy tomorrow,
33:13is that the Treasury issue a white paper or a policy paper on taxation now, as soon as we can put it together, and that it be an administration statement against property taxes, against unfair taxes, you know, kind of a populist position on taxation.
33:39But pointing out that
33:41We tried in 69 and we tried again in 70 to get tax reform, and all we could get was a little bit of relief for the poor people and so on and so forth.
33:52The president's always been for major tax reform.
33:56We just haven't been able to get it through this Congress.
33:59And the voting records, we'll supply this on the side as a political document, the voting records of the candidates on the other side and the voting records for special privilege, for loopholes,
34:11against reform and so on and so forth.
34:13These two things side by side will give our guys enough to get up and speak on the tax issue.
34:20Now everybody's running for cover.
34:22They don't know what to say.
34:24And they don't want to defend the existing tax system because they're not sure where we are.
34:31We've got to have a clear voice speaking out.
34:34And Connolly, as the administration spokesman on this, it should be his department, I think, that speaks out.
34:39And I've got a whole list of topics that I'm going to nominate, at least, for inclusion in this document that would cover the whole range of things.
34:50He may not buy that.
34:51The alternative would be some policy-setting speeches by Connolly and others on the subject of taxation.
35:00But sometime in the next four weeks, we've got to get a very clear line out of this, where we are.
35:06Where does it put us in terms of property tax relief?
35:11No, I think you can still postpone a decision on that.
35:26You can take credit for studying the problem.
35:28You decry the trends, you decry the rising taxes, and you've been hard at work on this for two years, and so on and so forth.
35:35And that can be right in as part of the line that we take.
35:38And just postpone the decision on that.
35:42You mean you really could just come out and say there's a chance of modifying the taxes and we ever have to reduce property taxes, but you're not suggesting any alternative?
35:51No, you can say there are a number of alternatives that you've been hard at work on.
35:56This is not a new subject, and so on and so forth.
35:58But duck the issue.
35:59To give you an example of what you're up against, I got a wire directed to you from George Wallace.
36:07It says, Mr. President, the American people demand a change in our tax system.
36:11It is unfair and ominous.
36:14Yours truly, George Wallace.
36:16The one of the things I want to talk to Connolly about is an answer.
36:20I'd kind of like to have Connolly write it back and say, Dear Governor,
36:25Very interesting wire.
36:26The president's fascinated with your suggestion.
36:29Specifically, what do you have in mind?
36:34Draw him out.
36:34He's got no staff work.
36:35He's got no background in this.
36:37He's got to be very happy to have your recommendation.
36:39Yeah.
36:39Good.
36:42And smoke him out.
36:43I do that anyway.
36:44Well, you've got to see how the secretary lives with that.
36:49No, I can't do it.
36:51No, he can do it, though, and I think he'd get a lot of fun out of it.
36:54So that's one of the things we're going to talk about.
36:56But the other side in this whole thing, this whole tax thing, is very superficial.
37:02And irresponsible.
37:03Yeah, very.
37:04Oh, she's talking about loopholes.
37:05But as John, what I said, he had a pretty position on loopholes in the election.
37:12I got that.
37:12It came out of the bed.
37:14Yeah.
37:14Depreciation on your home.
37:17Mortgage.
37:18Yeah.
37:19Yeah.
37:31You know, that's a murder to be handled with that.
37:34You know, for example, you take the capital gains, you knock the capital gains out in the market and go down 500 points.
37:42And I needed to go down 500 points, wouldn't I?
37:45That's right.
37:45Now, you can't say, that is not as strong a point to the average guy who's upset about taxes as to say, Senator Muskie doesn't want you to deduct the interest on your house.
37:59He didn't want you to own your own house.
38:01You won't be able to afford your own house, you know.
38:03You'll have to go out and rent, which is not deductible.
38:06That's what Senator Muskie wants.
38:07That's what Humphrey wants, and so on.
38:09And I think we can, I think we can make some music on that.
38:13The Democrats aren't really playing the line of the, basically they're being against, except for Wallace and his party, they're being against
38:25Charities, homeownership, families, exemptions, those are loopholes for your kids.
38:34They don't want to close those duties.
38:39Gas tax, deducting the tax on gasoline that you drive in your car.
38:45Sales tax.
38:46They don't grab those duties.
38:48Well, those are all loopholes.
38:49They don't specify anything.
38:50They just talk about loopholes.
38:52Yeah, what are they?
38:55Why does a rich corporation do this and that and the other thing?
38:59Well, you do know very well that taxes in the United States is less loopholes and it's just been a little.
39:05That's why it's... Every dollar that a corporation is exempt or has deducted from its income tax is as a result of a law passed by the United States Congress.
39:20Every one of these guys running for office except for one is a member of the Congress.
39:26Except George Wallace.
39:27Except George Wallace.
42:47He will have some dough by Friday, the first federal money.
42:51Really?
42:52Yeah.
42:54We're going to begin.
42:55Oh, God, I have squeezed blood out of the turns right here.
43:01Because we're in the last three months of fiscal year, most of the dough has been spent.
43:05So we're just literally taking it away from people.
43:07Is Weinberger getting along all right and spending his defense money and everything?
43:11I don't know.
43:11I don't know how that's going to work.
43:13Don't buy it with him.
43:15No, I want to make a note about Rizzo.
43:18I think it might be a good idea, when that money is delivered, for you to give him a phone call, because you have talked about what you saw him do.
43:24Yeah, I'll call him and say, I understand you got your first check today.
43:29What are you giving him for?
43:31Oh, law enforcement, the narcotics control, there's some child care money in there.
43:39Are you sure you're going to get a note out of him?
43:40Sure, sure.
43:43sure that I tell him first.
43:44Well, it'll be law enforcement money this weekend.
43:47It'll be the first money.
43:48That was the, he did, we got a third.
43:52We had no applications on the fly.
43:54We had to start from scratch.
43:56So we had to sort of swoop deep through this thing.
44:00But that'll help him somehow.
44:02Yeah, it will because he'll be able to say, see, the president's my friend and here's money we wouldn't have gotten otherwise.
44:09And that helps him with his, with his squirrel horse, which is what
53:04That might be great.
53:06Yeah, that's a good bumper sticker.
53:09You're going to have gold in my hair over here on your front door.
53:17No, my life is great, but I don't understand the difference.
53:22Did you see where Kennedy sponsored the bill to make a national monument out of Chappaquiddick?
53:27Can you imagine that?
53:30I heard about it, but I think it's probably kept from the government.
53:34think that this isn't you know lousy staff work i think more than anything else really oh yeah they didn't have to do that yeah there's some things that you just don't have to do it will not be forgotten it will be in four years not this year you agree oh sure that was every newspaper in the country and the people got a big play sure i got a big play in it out of denver this weekend
54:04Did they point out that?
54:05Yeah, it was good.
54:07Where, and it was derogatorily put, it was where he had, how the hell did it, it inferred that he had a girlfriend in his car and she'd been killed in the accident and that he had failed to report it and that he'd been convicted of failing to report the accident.
54:27Was he convicted in the accident?
54:28Yeah.
54:32Oh, sure.
54:33I had suspended his driver's license for a year.
54:39God, that's a hell of a damn thing to have in the record.
54:41Sure.
54:41Even that alone?
54:42Yeah.
54:42And then, of course, the grand jury proceedings were locked up.
54:46Yeah.
54:47But, no, he's convicted of a misdemeanor in connection with the accident.
54:53But that's why he isn't getting into the strike.
54:57Connection of his name and Chappaquiddick
55:01It's news.
55:03Every place.
55:03I remember the day that happened.
55:05I think we were on a plane.
55:06You came in and said, Senator Kennedy did this.
55:09Do you recall what you told me?
55:11You were the one that told me about it.
55:12You had an accident.
55:14Yeah, I remember we were on a plane.
55:16You came in and said Senator Kennedy was right at the building and falling off.
55:22Yeah, we had the wire.
55:23I forgot where we were.
55:24You brought it in to me.
55:25Yeah, we just sat there.
55:26It was just amazing.
55:27Yeah.
55:27Thank you.
55:29You got it someplace.
55:31I don't remember where we were.
55:33Well, I remember where I was the night he made the speech, you know, in the library where the book's gone.
55:37I was in New York that night.
55:39I heard about it.
55:40Where was I?
55:41I was abroad.
55:42You were gone.
55:42I don't remember where you were.
55:49I'm out of town.
55:52I think I was abroad.
55:54I'd taken the metro line.
55:55I had to rush to get to a television set because I wanted to see it.
56:02Well, it didn't come off.
56:05It didn't come off.
56:09You didn't think it came off?
56:14No, I think the fact that it's still an issue proves it didn't come off.
56:22He believed it.
56:23If it had been a good job, he would count it.
56:31He was really trying to make that kind of speech.
56:40Sure he was.
56:42It didn't sound.
56:44And I think the reason it didn't is it didn't have the central truth to it.
56:49That's right.
56:50We were telling the truth.
56:51I wasn't on that speech.
56:52He wasn't talking about this.
56:53He knew damn well he wasn't.
56:55And there were too many unexplained, extrinsic facts around it still needed to be rattled into the thing.
57:01Didn't these say in the speech I had?
57:03Yep.
57:04Talked to that effect.
57:06And there was a moment I wasn't proud of it.
57:08It's a hell of a thing to rerun in a campaign, I'll tell you.
57:43Well, you know, the only thing that troubles me about the busing thing is if you want to do the right thing, you know, you don't want to be in it, which is to make it terribly explosive, a visit issue, and make it worse than a job here at the end.
58:04That's my point.
58:05My view is, and I think you ought to get this hard when they ask you about it, that the president
58:12giving a lot of thought to this problem.
58:16And frankly, my kids have all gone to integrated schools.
58:20I mean, Friends is integrated.
58:22You know, I really consider that.
58:26What are your wife's vote?
58:30Public school, irascible public school, bi-irascible public schools, Mexicans and blacks.
58:35And Ian Whittier, of course, had the Quaker tradition.
58:41But my kids, of course, well, when Julie went to Smith, they had blacks all over the ice.
58:46They only had a couple.
58:47You know what I mean?
58:48That's not that.
58:49New York is not a, basically, a... Well, we've been playing this, that this was a personal decision on your part, born of very strong convictions.
59:01And trying to do the right thing.
59:03And rejecting the simplistic approach of the Constitutional Amendment.
59:08Trying to find the right answer.
59:11Trying to think frankly of how do we get kids better educated in this country, and yet how do we not turn the clock back racially and so forth.
59:20Well, the line we've been taking is that the best judges of the right thing to do are the parents of the kids.
59:25That's correct.
59:28And you look at these numbers, they've got a poll in here, the Gallup poll, in which they've broken out favoring and opposing busing by supporters and candidates.
59:38That's pretty all the same.
59:40First of all, it's 76-18 against busing nationwide.
59:45Then among blacks, it's 47-45 against busing.
59:51And then among the three candidates, Wallace, Nixon, and Muskie,
59:56The Wallace people are 89 to 8 against.
59:58The Nixon people are 85 to 10 against.
1:00:01And the Muskie people are 67 to 25 against.
1:00:08And then it's practically a constant 80 to 15 in every section of the country.
1:00:19Now, that's your evidence if the board is right.
1:00:23There's hardly a single issue in this country on which people agree like they agree on this issue, regardless of party, regardless of candidate, regardless of section.
1:00:40So, under those circumstances,
1:00:44and basically what is supposed to be a democratic system, a system of representative government, how the hell can you possibly represent people without at least reflecting those views to an extent?
1:00:54Particularly where the expert testimonies about education and so on is so uncertain.
1:01:04The sociologists, the educators...
1:01:07They're not sure.
1:01:08That's right.
1:01:09They're not sure.
1:01:10and so uh you you have to come down on the side of the of the instincts and the inherent abilities of the parent to decide what's best for their child now you know and i know that race is at the root of this but so be it people are willing to take down the barriers
1:01:39but they're not willing to force people across them.
1:01:42They're just not going to go that much further.
1:01:44That's right.
1:01:45Well, it's the parents against the courts, the parents against the sociologists, and I think you're in the right light of that argument.
1:01:59I'd refer you to the sociologists.
1:02:01That's a bad word.
1:02:04Yeah, that's a bad word.
1:02:06Okay.

Nixon & Ehrlichman on Busing and Law and Order

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Also recorded on April 18, 1972

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