Nixon, Gray & White House photographer on J. Edgar Hoover and FBI

2:04:32Yes, whenever those teamsters are ready, I will, uh, all right.
2:04:37Is that gray out there?
2:04:39That's not gray.
2:04:40He's just waiting for a car.
2:04:42Would you like to disagree with this?
2:04:45Yeah.
2:04:46All right.
2:05:05It was.
2:05:05You haven't seen this young lady in a long cutout?
2:05:11No.
2:05:11Thank you.
2:05:13Thank you.
2:05:14That made my day.
2:05:16She really was a magnificent singer.
2:05:22Thank you.
2:05:23I think it's very important that .
2:05:39Oh, yes, I think the press has as well, and I think the gesture this morning on your part that brings you there was, I think the thing is, you play at this point, obviously, the key question, what are you going to do?
2:06:00The president is going to select the best man for the job.
2:06:04And we just are not going to comment on that at this point.
2:06:12So as you well know, that could well be what we want to do.
2:06:15But we don't want to make you a target at this point.
2:06:18So therefore, you've got to give the impression that we're here.
2:06:19Let's stand up, all of you.
2:06:20That's what I did this morning.
2:06:21I didn't.
2:06:21Yeah.
2:06:21But I said, what'd you tell me?
2:06:22I said, I just stand up.
2:06:22I said, I was one of the 17 that got out under consideration.
2:06:23And the president said, you could say it wasn't a number under consideration, that you're one, and that you know that you're one.
2:06:59up in Mr. Hoover's conference room.
2:07:00They were all seated and I stood and I spoke to them about 20 minutes.
2:07:02And I spoke in sensibilities tone and impact tone, right?
2:07:03What kind of an individual I was and how I intended to operate and build upon and enrich the legacy of Mr. Hoover and how you respect that.
2:07:24They reacted very well.
2:07:24In fact, Mark Trump called me this morning.
2:07:25He said that was a hell of a session yesterday.
2:07:26I said some of the fellows I thought were going to retire said that this kind of guy we can serve.
2:07:28Of course, they may be some of the fellows that should have been one of those fellows.
2:08:02No, I wouldn't do that.
2:08:04Some of these people, you know, this is an area in which I'd like to ask you to give me just some guidance.
2:08:09Like one of the newspaper reporters this morning was pressing on the aspect of my political connections with you and my personal friendships with you.
2:08:20And I said, my relationship with you is one of my closest friends.
2:08:25You could say that.
2:08:26I'd like you to say I miss him.
2:08:29I have always been a friend of the President, just as Edgar Hoover was.
2:08:30That's a good line.
2:08:31What I told him, I said, I have respected and admired the President since he was a freshman congressman and I was a freshman law student.
2:08:34And I said, if you mean a bi-personal friend, an intimate of the President, no.
2:08:36But if you mean a close professional friend, working with the President and empowering him and respecting him, he has the answer.
2:08:39You can find out that you
2:08:58I think you might even say that
2:09:18Well, it is common knowledge that Director Hoover was a very close personal friend of the President and his family, which is true.
2:09:26My God, I've been to his house a dozen times, and he's been, you know, to the White House and to great numbers of occasions.
2:09:34But also during the years out of office, I'd see him in California, and I'd say, my relationship with the President is not like that.
2:09:43It is not that.
2:09:44It isn't on that personal basis.
2:09:46But on a professional basis, that I've seen him work with the National Security Council and the, you know, of course, since I've come to the Justice Department, I have great respect for him.
2:10:01But it's not the personal relationship of the Director Hoover had with him.
2:10:04You see, it's a very subtle way.
2:10:06Well, the point is, your personal relationship, of course, is one of the things you don't want to do.
2:10:12But the way to get ahead of it, I think, is neat.
2:10:19That's a good comparison.
2:10:22Yeah, and I'll make that as some of the books that come to see me this afternoon.
2:10:29I think I just put it that way, that the president, I don't know what you might say, that he thought of all the people in public life, that public life, that Edgar Hoover was his closest personal friend, which is true.
2:10:43I mean, I know nobody else in public life that I have seen more on socially than Edgar Hoover in a private way.
2:10:49So I have nobody in the cabinet.
2:10:51I mean, Roberts is a person who I might have seen there as well.
2:10:54But I've seen Hoover out of office.
2:10:56I mean, he's the guy that stuck with you in there, huh?
2:10:59I've seen him in California and Florida.
2:11:02We've all been down there for years.
2:11:06Going back for 25 years, my closest personal friend of all the people I've known.
2:11:11Much closer, for example, than I am, or any member of the camp.
2:11:15But I didn't know that that was true.
2:11:17So he was basically a personal friend in a very close, intimate sense.
2:11:23Whereas you could say that relationship is not one that you had.
2:11:29I mean, it's because of the way that things have developed.
2:11:37But anyway, then you could say, oh, man, professionally, you've had respect for many years.
2:11:48That comes easy.
2:11:49And you could also do it this way.
2:11:53It's quite evident that Edgar Hoover, of course,
2:12:00and the president were on a first-name basis.
2:12:04I mean, everybody knew that, which is true.
2:12:10I mean, it was one of the few that was, and the president isn't on a first-name basis with very many people, so you could say you're not.
2:12:15Well, no, I think these little subtle points had a great impact.
2:12:18Sure, they did.
2:12:19They did, but they picked them up.
2:12:20You've got to remember, they're all in the nation.
2:12:22They're all in the nation.
2:12:22one or two exceptions, but generally speaking, whatever, they may say they're enemies of the Bureau, they're enemies of law and order, they're enemies of the administration.
2:12:33They were enemies of Hoover's, blood enemies, and they know it.
2:12:37They know it.
2:12:38They probably practically heard when I made that eulogy today and also when I made the statement out there that they died.
2:12:48Nevertheless, just consider it as the enemy.
2:12:51But don't let them know you're considering them that way.
2:12:54Uber was a master at it.
2:12:55He hated the press.
2:12:57Hated them, except for a few that he only had a few people heard particularly, and others .
2:13:03But his favorite words were, he said, there's skunks, skunks in traffic.
2:13:08And he always said, that's skunk.
2:13:11And so you should do the same thing.
2:13:13Never, never figure that anyone is your friend.
2:13:17I just don't want to go there.
2:13:28that you're being taken, but never, never, never do that.
2:13:31That's the best advice I can give on that.
2:13:32Some of our boys around here got to learn it the hard way and say, well, we can change it.
2:13:39We know.
2:13:40You see, they grow up, just read on.
2:13:42He's right.
2:13:43He's right.
2:13:44He's right.
2:13:48said that, play it clever.
2:13:50Hoover hated him, and yet he had very good press relations, very rapid, seriously, because they had enormous respect for the old man.
2:13:59And he was clever as a dickens with his enemies.
2:14:01He, you know, they followed him.
2:14:03He would, in private, he talked very boldly, publicly, except for the last, when he did fall off a bit and he lost his judgment, you know, and got in that silly fight.
2:14:17But you do the same thing.
2:14:18Play it.
2:14:19Play it.
2:14:20You've got to be a conspirator.
2:14:22You've got to be totally ruthless.
2:14:24You've got to appear to be a nice guy.
2:14:26But underneath, you've got to be steely and tough.
2:14:29Now, that, believe me, is the way to run that bureau.
2:14:32And I must say, I had like a kind of house in the Senate.
2:14:37And I sat around and said, all right, so I love everybody.
2:14:42And you know, all the right answers.
2:14:49I think it's horrible.
2:14:50The Bureau's always been against it.
2:14:51You know, Mr. Hoover was against it.
2:14:54Communism, well, that depends.
2:14:59I've had to do that.
2:15:00I haven't been doing it.
2:15:02Now you're going to be right in the vortex of it.
2:15:06But about everything else, a little of your effects is there.
2:15:10I would suggest one thing that you might do, if you can, if you could have the senior man
2:15:17It can't be told.
2:15:18No, I've already had his resignation.
2:15:19He volunteered.
2:15:20I didn't have to ask for it.
2:15:20Apparently not, because I wanted to talk with him yesterday.
2:15:22He has resigned.
2:15:44Now, what I would do there is to, another thing I would do, I would immediately call a meeting of all the offices and the settings, bring them in here.
2:15:56The special agents in charge can bring them in.
2:15:59And as a matter of fact, if they all come in, I might pop over.
2:16:05I was going to try to set that up next week.
2:16:08I've got to check with Dwight and Steve.
2:16:13Here he is.
2:16:15This was not a one-man thing.
2:16:21But I think if you were to get one of those guys toward the door and come up, say, look, I'm just going around shaking.
2:16:29I shake my hands a little.
2:16:31The secretary is, and I shake my hands a lot.
2:16:36of that building says, well, this guy's a good fellow.
2:16:38I'd get that done quickly.
2:16:40I think that's very important for you immediately to establish.
2:16:44I don't mean committee or any act of that.
2:16:46I mean the staff.
2:16:47I don't mean the other people.
2:16:49But you get around and shake their hands and say, you might even say that,
2:16:55You can say you were talking to the president.
2:16:58He said that he believed that Mr. Hoover had always said that what we made the Bureau of Men and Women, and he wanted to come around and thank them for their work and tell them that you looked forward to working with them.
2:17:10That would go like wild.
2:17:11Just touching you, just touching that, so sorry.
2:17:14I'll do that tomorrow morning.
2:17:15I didn't schedule anything for today.
2:17:17No, no, not today.
2:17:17I'm sorry.
2:17:22Last night, just coming out of the gate, one of the black police officers stopped the car and reached in the car and shook my hand, and he said, we're all very proud of you, and all over the department.
2:17:37And this thing, let me just have the idea that you're as mean as you are.
2:17:42Let's hope you are.
2:17:43He is.
2:17:43I am.
2:17:43I am.
2:17:43But you know, I have to cover for that little facade every now and then.
2:17:47I am.
2:17:48I'm going to say I am, too.
2:17:52or basically to put on this.
2:17:57We all go out and put on the veneer.
2:18:01I'd like the press.
2:18:02I can't hardly stand them.
2:18:04I know that basically they're not disloyal in the sense of loyalty to anything else like communism, right?
2:18:15But they have the loyalty to the country.
2:18:18They have the loyalty to the country to lose.
2:18:20They're bad, bad money.
2:18:22I got her, I'm not going to lose.
2:18:25But, you know, what I said the other day, I knew she was true.
2:18:28And, you know, I pointed that out for a baby person.
2:18:32The little message that you had in there, I thought, well, beautifully done.
2:18:39You know, Ron called me yesterday after he was all over.
2:18:41He had Rather in his office, and Rather was
2:18:46I said, why didn't they make that speech?
2:18:48And who wrote it?
2:18:49I was tagging the press, and I told them the words.
2:18:52I said, one, I wrote it, and two, you believed it.
2:18:55I believed it, and I felt it, and I held it in long enough.
2:18:59Well, I had a factual, a lawyer's factual presentation, and they found it very difficult to quarrel.
2:19:04Sure, as I pointed, or rather, as a son of a bitch, don't ever see him.
2:19:07I said, don't ever, ever, ever see him.
2:19:11I can assure you, because he will cut you up.
2:19:13All you do is build him up and he gets 60 bucks for every shoot he gets somebody on.
2:19:14I would not see him at all cut up, totally.
2:19:16Recognize that.
2:19:16Hoover hated seeing us with an utter edge.
2:19:17You hear me?
2:19:17Well, Chancellor, too.
2:19:18I have a chance for you to get boxed up.
2:19:20The Chancellor is so dumb.
2:19:39but not a smarty, not an over-funny, but he's clever.
2:19:42Had nothing to do with CBS, I'm sure, nobody.
2:19:45Very good.
2:19:46They are out to get the girl.
2:19:48ABC, Howard Spinn, people like that, they're close, but they're decent.
2:19:52Some of them, some of them, not all of them.
2:19:55But rather that much, don't see the news.
2:19:59I don't know, I would suggest something.
2:20:02I wouldn't be in the news much.
2:20:04I don't think, I wouldn't go, now they'll watch
2:20:10where don't go on.
2:20:11I don't think.
2:20:13I don't think it's worth it.
2:20:15I mean, you better chin around.
2:20:16But I would stay away.
2:20:19I would just very quietly do your job, particularly when you're coming at this point.
2:20:25And we'll see later.
2:20:25There may be a time when you better get out and show yourself.
2:20:28But I would do it more with formal speeches as I can.
2:20:32That's the way I would approach it.
2:20:36Sometimes I take the tail tall of the press and think, look, I'm sorry, I'm so tied into the job, I can't do it.
2:20:41Don't have press conference.
2:20:43I don't have any press conference at all.
2:20:45None.
2:20:46Unless, you know, it's indicated that Ron or somebody or John or Ron should say, you've got to do it on this particular subject in this area.
2:20:55You've got the message out.
2:20:56No, I wouldn't do that at all.
2:20:59There's one thing for the memory of that group, don't do anything to those sons of bitches and see if you guys...
2:21:06They hate him.
2:21:07They malign him.
2:21:08Another group, Timeline.
2:21:10Never see anybody from Timeline.
2:21:12Never, never, never.
2:21:13You may have them in your afternoon group, but remember, they're real, real outcasts.
2:21:20Now, this is worse.
2:21:21Timeline, I just, I think we generally feel that maybe you can do something that they don't like citing that.
2:21:28No, no.
2:21:28They have a total, total hater of the Bureau.
2:21:32Or, you know, New York Times.
2:21:36I never let them in the office.
2:21:38Anybody that got the Pulitzer Prize and were exempted from the papers must not be in that office.
2:21:43It had nothing to do with me.
2:21:44I think everybody, but I think your best guys have not done anything, you know, after you do this thing today.
2:21:50You've got to do something so that they don't think you're hiding.
2:21:53But then I'd be here.
2:21:54After that, I'd say, well, now, fellas, I'm too busy running the barrel, and I just can't go.
2:22:01Do I have to talk to that tiny woman?
2:22:04There'll be some time, yeah.
2:22:05Oh, she's all right with me.
2:22:07She's all right.
2:22:08She's all right.
2:22:09Bonnie Angelo's all right.
2:22:11And I say to my finance secretary, you know, the people that have been, that Bonnie Angelo is a nice little girl.
2:22:17It won't come out the way you expect it doesn't, does it?
2:22:30No, I don't think so.
2:22:32No.
2:22:32But, um, it's re-election.
2:22:32The President thinks it's alright for me to go over and volunteer, or if he wants me to stay away, I understand that.
2:22:37But I haven't been over there to do anything yet.
2:22:40I'd stay out of it.
2:22:41Fine.
2:22:42I don't want anyone to say yes or no.
2:22:43We should get out of it.
2:22:44I mean, it's perfectly fine for you to do it.
2:22:46But don't ever be among the targets.
2:22:48Don't ever do it.
2:22:49That's what I was going to say.
2:22:52And you could say that the, I think that you might say to him on the end, well, you have your support of the president.
2:23:00And he asked you about it, and you said, no, you shouldn't be in it.

Nixon, Gray & White House photographer on J. Edgar Hoover and FBI

AI Summary

Audio

Transcript (AI-generated)

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 4, 1972

Cite this conversation