Nixon White House TapesTape 725 › Conversation 725-035

Nixon, MacGregor & Hoopes on Vietnam War and Congressional relations

Tuesday, May 16, 1972 · 4:58 PM–5:05 PM ET · Oval Office

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  MacGregor, Clark;  Hoopes, David C.;  Bull, Stephen B.Conversation725-035 onTape 725 (tape position 04:17:57–04:23:56)StartTuesday, May 16, 1972 at 4:58 PMEndTuesday, May 16, 1972 at 5:05 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 725-035 ↗

President Nixon met with Clark MacGregor to discuss congressional reactions to the Vietnam War, specifically focusing on opposition to the blockade of Haiphong harbor and concerns regarding Senate negotiations with the National Liberation Front. They reviewed recent Harris Poll data indicating public support for the President’s policies despite negative media coverage and critical Senate maneuvers. The conversation also touched upon the assassination attempt on George Wallace, the management of the Black Lung bill, and upcoming changes in the Treasury Department.

Download MP3 (part 1) · 167.3 MB ·Download MP3 (part 2) · 168.1 MB ·Download MP3 (part 3) · 100.2 MB

This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 04:17:57 into the tape and ends around 04:23:56.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) ·JSON data · Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.

4:22:11This morning, the pressure they got in terms of personal business from delegations in the United States was absolutely unbelievable.
4:22:21And I said, well, it was a pressure to tell the press, but what about the people?
4:22:25Good God, the polls and so forth, you know that.
4:22:28That isn't the way, that isn't the attitude of the country.
4:22:31They're just hearing the rants.
4:22:34I gave each of the senators that I was worried about a copy of the Harris Poll in case he missed it.
4:22:39I will.
4:22:40I will.
4:22:43I will.
4:22:44I will.
4:23:07No.
4:23:07Well, here's what we're hearing about, Mr. President.
4:23:11There's been a whole series of feature stories.
4:23:15I haven't read a time in this week.
4:23:17I haven't read a news summary of what time in the news we get to say it.
4:23:20And the bureaucratic problem about the Senate's spineless and its, you know...
4:23:24They should make a foreign policy.
4:23:27Well, how can they?
4:23:28How can the Senate negotiate with Matt and Bill?
4:23:32Yes.
4:23:36I ask you to put in a gentleman's side of this.
4:23:39He asked for the United States to enter into an agreement with the NLF.
4:23:44For what?
4:23:45Well, Mr. President, I hate to be perplexed because it did not get out of the point of being absolutely ridiculous.
4:23:52By then, we would have appealed to the minister to call for an agreement for a verified ceasefire between the United States forces and the NLF.
4:24:00which leaves the North Vietnamese with a chance to romp over Cambodia and Laos and South Vietnam, see?
4:24:05Which makes no sense at all.
4:24:07The NLF ain't fighting now, you know.
4:24:08They're done.
4:24:08It's straight as well for me, Mr. President.
4:24:16Thank you for going through the audience.

On May 16, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Clark MacGregor, David C. Hoopes, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:58 pm and 5:05 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 725-035 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 725-35

Date: May 16, 1972
Time: Unknown between 4:58 pm and 5:05 pm.
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Clark MacGregor; this recording began at an
unknown time while the meeting was in progress.

      Congress
         -Pressures on delegations
         -Polls
               -Louis P. Harris poll
                    -Copy from MacGregor to Senators
                    -Results on Haiphong harbor mining
         -Robert A. Taft, Jr.

                                        (rev. Jan-02)

                -Meeting with MacGregor
          -Final vote
          -Lowell P. Weicker
                -Meeting with Henry A. Kissinger
          -Press reports
                -White House news summary
                -Tone
          -Foreign policy
                -Ability
                -Specter of Senate negotiations with Madame Nguyen Thi
                 Binh
                -Michael J. Mansfield
                      -Proposed U.S. agreement with National Liberation
                        Front [NLF]
                      -North Vietnam takeover of Cambodia, Laos, and
                        South Vietnam
          -Today's vote
                -Lack of understanding
                      -Weicker
          -Frank F. Church amendment vote
          -Today's vote
                -Breakdown
                -Action by President

David Hoopes entered at 5:03 pm.

      President's schedule
          -Meeting with unknown person(s)
                -Invitation
                      -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
          -Possible meeting with Senator Robert C. Byrd
                -Black lung bill
                      -Recommendations on possible veto
                      -MacGregor’s view

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 5:03 pm.

          -Ray C. Bliss
          -Boat trip with John Cardinal Krol
               -Other
               -Time

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:05 pm.

                                         (rev. Jan-02)

      John B. Connally
          -Resignation as Secretary of Treasury
          -George P. Shultz

      George C. Wallace
         -Shooting
               -President's actions
                     -Contrasted with Hubert H. Humphrey's actions
                     -Call to Cornelia Wallace
                     -Increased Secret Service protection
                           -Edward M. Kennedy
                           -Shirley Chisholm
                           -Others
                     -Offer of Presidential suite at Bethesda Naval
                       Hospital
                     -Call to Mrs. Wallace
                           -Evaluated
                     -Contrasted with Humphrey
                     -Meeting with doctor

      Vietnam
          -President's decision to blockade
                      -The President’s view
                      -Support

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 5:03 pm.

      Material for President's signature
         -Hoopes

      Vietnam
          -North Vietnam
               -Reason for cease-fire proposal

MacGregor, Hoopes, and Bull left at 5:05 pm.
  • 024-152 1:22 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:22 pm and 3:50 pm.
  • 024-153 3:50 PM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 3:50 pm to 3:58 pm.
  • 024-154 3:58 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:58 pm and 3:59 pm.
  • 024-155 3:59 PM · 11 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, and Stephen B. Bull talked on the telephone from 3:59 pm to 4:10 pm.
  • 725-036 5:05 PM · 32 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John N. Mitchell, Ray C. Bliss, White House photographer, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:05 pm to 5:40 pm.
  • 725-037 5:40 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, unknown person(s), and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:40 pm and 5:43 pm.
  • 725-038 5:43 PM · 15 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John Cardinal Krol, Stephen B. Bull, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:43 pm to 5:54 pm.
  • 725-043 5:54 PM · 12 sec — United States Secret Service agents met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:54 pm and 11:59 pm.

Conversation 725-035, May 16, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/725-035 (accessed September 18, 2026).