Conversation 725-038

TapeTape 725StartTuesday, May 16, 1972 at 5:43 PMEndTuesday, May 16, 1972 at 5:54 PMTape start time04:57:04Tape end time05:12:07ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Krol, John Cardinal;  Bull, Stephen B.;  White House photographerRecording deviceOval Office

On May 16, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, John Cardinal Krol, Stephen B. Bull, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:43 pm to 5:54 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 725-038 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 725-38

Date: May 16, 1972
Time: 5:43 - 5:54 p.m.
Location: Oval Office

The President met with John Cardinal Krol and Stephen B. Bull; the White
House photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting.

      President's schedule
          -Described
          -Krol's wait

      [Photograph session]
          -Location

      Sequoia cruise
          -Attendees
               -William P. Rogers
               -Gen. Alexander M. Haig, Jr.

      Photograph session
          -Location
               -Other famous visitors

      George C. Wallace
         -Assassination attempt
               -Condition
                    -Press reports
                    -President's doctor's reports

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:54 pm.

                     -Bullet's location
                           -Possible operation
                           -Consequences
                -Arthur H. Bremer
                     -The President’s view
                     -Political affiliation
                           -Wallace
                           -Hubert H. Humphrey
                           -Young Democrats
                     -Motives

                                  (rev. Jan-02)

              -Shooting ability
         -Shooting scene
              -Aim
              -Call to Wallace
         -Bullet locations
         -Secret Service agent's wounding

Other shootings
   -James Francis [Cardinal] McIntyre
         -Krol's lunch with unidentified psychiatrist
               -Office shooting
               -Murder of new secretary
               -Motive
   -An unknown woman in Philadelphia
         -Motive
         -Letter to Krol's office
               -Psychiatrist's comments
               -Comparison with McIntyre shooting

President's walk to Treasury
    -Occasion
          -John B. Connally's resignation
    -George P. Shultz
    -Handshaking with White House tourists
          -Reason
               -New York Times editorial
                      -Violent society
                      -Television campaigns
                -President's opinion
                      -Setting example
          -Description of scene
    -Presidential activities
          -Climate of fear
          -Balance

Protection
    -President's Secret Service detail
    -Wallace's detail
          -Number of Secret Servicemen
          -Supplements
                -Alabama State Police
    -Possibility of stopping killers
    -Assassination of Archduke Francis Ferdinand
          -Number of guards

                                        (rev. Jan-02)

                -Sarajevo

Bull entered at an unknown time after 5:43 pm.

      President's schedule
          -Presidential car
                -Availability
          -Camp David trip
                -Briefing books, notes, and briefcases
                      -Locations
                            -Oval Office
                            -Executive Office Building [EOB] office
                            -Lincoln Sitting Room
                      -Number
                -President's preparation for Soviet trip

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:54 pm.

               -Departure
                      -Time
          -Soviet trip
               -Importance
                      -Dinner discussion
               -A memorandum prepared by Krol
                      -Bull

      Krol story
          -National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception
          -An unknown person
          -Six Crises

Bull entered at an unknown time after 5:43 pm.

      President's schedule
          -Camp David trip
                -Briefcase

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:54 pm.

      Soviet Union
          -President's decision to blockade
                -Effect on Vietnam war
                -Effect on summit
                -Motivating factors

                                         (rev. Jan-02)

                       -Prisoners of War [POWs]
                       -US forces
                       -North Vietnam offensive
                             -Overrunning South Vietnam
                             -Tanks in Hue
                 -Possible cancellation of summit
                       -Letter to President from Polish government
                             -Day received
                             -Content
                             -Meaning
                             -Henry A. Kissinger
                             -Haig
           -Communist mindset
                 -Slavs
                 -Assumptions
                 -Outlook on wars
                       -Goals
                 -Response to President's actions
           -President's decision to blockade
                 -Difficulty
                 -Public support
                       -Support observed by Krol
                             -Philadelphia peace groups
                             -Bishop John Joseph Dougherty
                                   -Identified
                                         -Newark, New Jersey
                                         -Seton College
                                   -Pressure to sign peace statement
                                         -Krol's advice

Bull entered at an unknown time after 5:43 am.

      President's schedule
          -Time
          -Soviet trip
                -Discussions
                      -Vietnam

The President, Cardinal Krol, and Bull left at 5:54 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

I'll give that to you.
I'll give that to you.
The ice cream was quite nice.
It's done.
Yeah, it's really good.
It's really good.
It's really good.
That's right.
Yeah.
This is, uh... We don't give those ordinary folks any of those messages.
Well...
Here, John.
Okay.
Well, all right.
So, you know, there are the other things are okay.
Yeah.
Thank you, my friend.
Well, hello.
Coming along?
Yeah, good.
He's coming Friday.
Friday, right.
He doesn't make it.
Yeah.
I don't hear you.
I just didn't think they were going to be there to get used to the Soviet stuff.
I guess so.
I don't need it.
I'm on her side.
She's on the side.
I told you she's here.
What does that mean?
It's about 26 hours.
We've probably been resisting more than a couple of minutes here.
I like that.
Thank you.
We might have a picture for the card.
That was one of our wives.
That's the tradition.
Oh, wait a minute.
I thought I wanted to stick mine in the chair holding it down.
I was going to stick it under Sean's ear.
This is a traditional picture.
I'm sorry.
You can go see where we had the blind dust and where it came from.
Yeah, I've heard of some cartels.
No, right there.
I thought I could hear that.
That's right.
That's right.
Well, that ends the last line, of course.
Thank God.
The press is not.
Ireland doctors.
He's going to have some permanent damage, whether or not he has paralysis in his legs.
And he's going to be saying that there's a chance that just the blood is lodged in his mind, whatever.
I don't think he's got any sense of getting it out.
It's going to be terribly difficult to have permanent damage.
That was it.
He's a moronic kind of person.
He's a loner.
Actually, he said he was basically a
And the Wallace man had Wallace stickers on his car.
And his father said, he, his boy's father said, he, the father, was for Humphrey.
The other boy is a member of the Young Democrats.
And his son was for Humphrey, too.
So it's a confused kind of thing.
I don't mean to naturally put Humphrey under the bus.
But I follow many of them and set them whole.
They're not .
And it's twisted mine and put on the Wallace thing.
But investigators will probably never find out because people live, you know, he apparently had plotted this thing for some time.
Plotted it, yeah.
He must have been a mad shot from out here because he was shooting at point blank range.
And we have the gun pointed at the stomach of the other guy.
And they say something about six hands was being pressed at the guy.
He said it was the four-eared George.
He said it was the four-eared George.
Yeah, that's right.
And we had three bullets.
We had three bullets.
One in the arm, one up here, one down here.
And we sprayed them around him.
Two or three of them came to the secret service.
I remember that a bunch of psychiatrists at the time, they had the situation of a seven-demented nurse, about 15 years old, who walked in a car into the Magentire's office.
Oh, okay.
I think they pulled her down and they killed her.
The secretary who was the first to be on the job in the United States.
She killed a person.
And we were talking about that because there was a woman in Philadelphia who would have a hang-up about some of the police or something.
writing letters to me, to the office, to the secretary, and so on.
And when this happens, she wrote to the secretary, don't worry, I won't shoot you.
And the psychiatrist says, be careful.
Because in a confused state, the shooting, the secretary, the priest, the department's office, all of this can not be cleared.
And she says, do this next week.
Well, I did something today which, of course, seemed to be fine.
So I seemed sort of worried about that.
As you know, we've had, this was the time, I think, at Connelly.
And we're resigning.
We're going to stay for years.
It must have been that good of George.
Also, I, after I made the announcement, I walked over to the trade union developer club.
and took him, and she also, and walked back, and the treasury building was there, and there are literally hundreds and hundreds of people who were lined up to prepare the doors to the White House.
I did it because I had seen an editorial in the hard times as well, and the practical way
You know, it's regurgitating because it was to the effect, well, this is a terrible thing.
We live in a violent society, and our candidates should campaign on about tolerating the president.
I think times would be delighted if I were shot.
Nevertheless, I'm just not going to have a situation this country is.
based on the free country, and it is a safe country, these things happen.
But I thought I had to set some example to walk out among people.
So I walked right across, and the people couldn't see me.
Of course, not really my surprise.
There were young people, older people, all over the world.
And she managed to do, walk around, and to do that for children.
We can't have a climate of fear.
You can't run from it.
I don't mean to shoot you rash things, but I just increased my secret service detail.
I said, look, Wallace had 50.
We assigned 50 secret service to Wallace.
They couldn't stop him.
He had a lot of bad, but a lot of bad statements for him, too.
They couldn't stop him.
If a man is nuts, he doesn't want to kill him.
Right?
But you know, for example, the
he had hundreds around somebody it must be over the aop and get that vacation also the briefcase from the uh
other side, and also the reading books, you know, there are three reading books that were in the Lincoln City Room.
They, you know, they had gone.
Well, I'll be sure that the three reading books, the three black books, and that black book on the table must have also been lost.
I read two days before this.
I read it.
This is, uh, I read it.
I read it.
I read it.
I read it.
I read it.
I read it.
I read it.
I read it.
This trip is so important.
We'll talk something about it tonight.
I did something that I hope that you'll understand.
Well, it's a hurry if people are looking for something.
Well, this is for the gardener.
Yes, I have a, let me, let me, let me get it on the screen.
I want to show you, I just got this out of the paper this morning.
I took that as a theme and I thought that
That's very helpful, very helpful.
We, uh, I can do the industry, you know, the, you know, I'm here, we, I do what I know is necessary action, which is working extremely well to bring these people to finish this war.
Well, they haven't.
Not to lose it.
I knew there was a risk, but I didn't think we had any risk.
I just figured we couldn't leave those people without using 60,000 Americans there and have some South Vietnam overrun and go to Moscow.
Yeah, I couldn't be in Moscow at the time.
And Soviet tanks were running through the streets a few ways.
That was my view.
I was thinking of Bagley.
The interesting thing was that the first indication we got that the Soviet was not going to cancel was
Three days, it was two days later, I got a letter from Poles.
I mean, the Polish Union, the Polish ambassador, he said they were going forward with our trip.
Well, the competition had been made.
The Poles would never have sent a letter to us without the Russians knowing.
So we figured that, of course.