Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 725 › Conversation 725-038

Nixon, Krol & White House photographer on George Wallace

Tuesday, May 16, 1972 · 5:43 PM–5:54 PM ET · Oval Office · 15 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Krol, John Cardinal; Bull, Stephen B.; White House photographerConversation725-038 on Tape 725 (tape position 04:57:04–05:12:07)StartTuesday, May 16, 1972 at 5:43 PMEndTuesday, May 16, 1972 at 5:54 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 725-038 ↗

President Nixon met with John Cardinal Krol to discuss the political climate following the attempted assassination of George Wallace, as well as the President’s upcoming summit in the Soviet Union. Nixon explained his decision to maintain public appearances despite the violence, emphasizing his refusal to govern under a climate of fear. The two also addressed the strategic necessity of the U.S. naval blockade in Vietnam and the positive signals regarding the stability of the Soviet summit.

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Position in tape: 04:57:04 – 05:12:07

part C, 52:48

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725b.mp3
725c.mp3

On May 16, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, John Cardinal Krol, Stephen B. Bull, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:43 pm to 5:54 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 725-038 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 725-38

Date: May 16, 1972
Time: 5:43 - 5:54 p.m.
Location: Oval Office

The President met with John Cardinal Krol and Stephen B. Bull; the White
House photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting.

      President's schedule
          -Described
          -Krol's wait

      [Photograph session]
          -Location

      Sequoia cruise
          -Attendees
               -William P. Rogers
               -Gen. Alexander M. Haig, Jr.

      Photograph session
          -Location
               -Other famous visitors

      George C. Wallace
         -Assassination attempt
               -Condition
                    -Press reports
                    -President's doctor's reports

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:54 pm.

                     -Bullet's location
                           -Possible operation
                           -Consequences
                -Arthur H. Bremer
                     -The President’s view
                     -Political affiliation
                           -Wallace
                           -Hubert H. Humphrey
                           -Young Democrats
                     -Motives

              -Shooting ability
Show the rest of the log (128 more lines)
         -Shooting scene
              -Aim
              -Call to Wallace
         -Bullet locations
         -Secret Service agent's wounding

Other shootings
   -James Francis [Cardinal] McIntyre
         -Krol's lunch with unidentified psychiatrist
               -Office shooting
               -Murder of new secretary
               -Motive
   -An unknown woman in Philadelphia
         -Motive
         -Letter to Krol's office
               -Psychiatrist's comments
               -Comparison with McIntyre shooting

President's walk to Treasury
    -Occasion
          -John B. Connally's resignation
    -George P. Shultz
    -Handshaking with White House tourists
          -Reason
               -New York Times editorial
                      -Violent society
                      -Television campaigns
                -President's opinion
                      -Setting example
          -Description of scene
    -Presidential activities
          -Climate of fear
          -Balance

Protection
    -President's Secret Service detail
    -Wallace's detail
          -Number of Secret Servicemen
          -Supplements
                -Alabama State Police
    -Possibility of stopping killers
    -Assassination of Archduke Francis Ferdinand
          -Number of guards

                -Sarajevo

Bull entered at an unknown time after 5:43 pm.

      President's schedule
          -Presidential car
                -Availability
          -Camp David trip
                -Briefing books, notes, and briefcases
                      -Locations
                            -Oval Office
                            -Executive Office Building [EOB] office
                            -Lincoln Sitting Room
                      -Number
                -President's preparation for Soviet trip

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:54 pm.

               -Departure
                      -Time
          -Soviet trip
               -Importance
                      -Dinner discussion
               -A memorandum prepared by Krol
                      -Bull

      Krol story
          -National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception
          -An unknown person
          -Six Crises

Bull entered at an unknown time after 5:43 pm.

      President's schedule
          -Camp David trip
                -Briefcase

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:54 pm.

      Soviet Union
          -President's decision to blockade
                -Effect on Vietnam war
                -Effect on summit
                -Motivating factors

                       -Prisoners of War [POWs]
                       -US forces
                       -North Vietnam offensive
                             -Overrunning South Vietnam
                             -Tanks in Hue
                 -Possible cancellation of summit
                       -Letter to President from Polish government
                             -Day received
                             -Content
                             -Meaning
                             -Henry A. Kissinger
                             -Haig
           -Communist mindset
                 -Slavs
                 -Assumptions
                 -Outlook on wars
                       -Goals
                 -Response to President's actions
           -President's decision to blockade
                 -Difficulty
                 -Public support
                       -Support observed by Krol
                             -Philadelphia peace groups
                             -Bishop John Joseph Dougherty
                                   -Identified
                                         -Newark, New Jersey
                                         -Seton College
                                   -Pressure to sign peace statement
                                         -Krol's advice

Bull entered at an unknown time after 5:43 am.

      President's schedule
          -Time
          -Soviet trip
                -Discussions
                      -Vietnam

The President, Cardinal Krol, and Bull left at 5:54 pm.

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I'll give that to you.
I'll give that to you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, here, John.
What was the call tonight or whatever?
I don't hear those comments.
The other thing, sir.
Okay.
I don't want to hear those.
I really appreciate that.
I'll talk to the Cardinal.
He was with us last night.
Good to see you again, Alvin.
You tell all of them that either we want you to take this trip, that it'll be for the two of you, and we'll make a good time.
You know, they're all good ones.
You just make Europe that very beautiful.
Anyway, this is from China.
This is from China.
Gordon Queen is 30 years old.
Bye-bye.
Thank you, Mr. President.
Well, hello.
How are you all?
Good.
Good.
Good.
Good.
Good.
Good.
Good.
I don't hear you.
I just didn't think they were necessarily getting used to the Soviet stuff.
Thank you.
We might have a picture of their cars.
That was one of their wives.
Oh, wait a minute.
I thought I wanted to stick mine in the chair and hold it down.
I was going to stick it under Sean's ear.
This is a traditional picture.
I'm sorry.
You can go see where we had the rhinos and where they came from.
Yeah, birders and cardinals.
No, right there.
I didn't hear that.
That's right.
That's right.
Well, that is the last time, of course.
Thank God.
Thank God.
The press is not our own doctors.
Hopefully it's pretty rugged.
He may, he's going to have some permanent damage, whether or not he has paralysis in his legs.
It remains to be seen, but there is no chance.
The blood is lodged in his mind.
I don't know if he's got these things.
Getting it out, it's going to be terribly difficult.
I was mad at him, of course.
The sequence of the person that he reflects to, he's a moronic kind of person.
He's a loner.
It's actually studying, it's basically
And the Wallace man had Wallace stickers and so on in his car.
And his father said, he, his boy's father said, he was, he, the father, was for Humphrey.
The other boy is a member of the Young Democrats, which is his son, was for Humphrey, too.
So it's a confused kind of thing.
You know, I don't mean to, naturally, talk about it, but I follow May and set the whole thing up, you know, in his district, his twisted mind, and put on the Wallace things for that.
But investigators will probably never find out because people live, you know, they apparently had plotted this thing for some time, plotted to kill him.
He must have been a mad shot from out here.
He was shooting at Parkland Range.
We have the gun pointed at the stomach.
And they say something about six hands was the president.
Yeah, he said it was the four-year-old George.
And then he had three bullets.
He had three bullets in one of the arms, one up here and one down here.
And he sprayed them around him.
He took three of them and gave them to the Secret Service.
I remember that a bunch of psychiatrists at the time, they had the situation of a 70-minute nurse, about 15 years old, walked in the car to the magentire's office.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
Pulled it up and had it killed.
The secretary was the first day on the job, so he had a very strange destiny, and he started moving the cameras.
Well, she killed the priest.
And we were talking about that because there was a woman in Philadelphia who would have a hang-up about some of her beliefs or something, and she was writing letters to me, to the office of the secretary, and so on.
And when this happened, she wrote to the secretary, don't worry, I won't shoot you.
And the psychiatrist says, be careful, because if you confuse things, the shooting, the secretary, the priest, the department's office, all of this can not be clear until you do this, actually, but let's just attempt it.
Well, I did something today which, of course, seemed to be on his mind.
So he was very worried about that.
As you know, he had missed the time to take an economy and resigned.
He had a refunding mistake for years.
It must have been that good of George.
Also, I, after I made the announcement, I walked over to the trade union to vote for him.
and took him to Chulswer and walked back and the treasury building is there and there are literally hundreds and hundreds of people who were lined up to prepare the doors to the White House.
I did it because I had seen an editorial in the other time this morning that practically gave me, you know,
to regurgitate because it was to the effect, well, this is a terrible thing.
We live in a violent society.
Our candidates should campaign on it.
I've tolerated it as the president.
I think times would be delighted if I were shot.
Nevertheless, I'm just not going to have a situation this country is.
based on a free country, and it is a safe country, these things happen.
But I thought I had to set some example to walk out among people.
So I walked right across, and the people couldn't get in.
First off, to my surprise, there were young people, older people, all over the world.
And the people who walked around had to do that for genius.
We can't, we can't have a climate of fear.
You can't run from it.
I don't mean to shoot you rash things, but I just, and I told him, I said, I'm going to increase my secret certainty.
And I said, look, Wallace had 50.
We assigned 50 secrets.
You assigned Wallace.
They couldn't stop him.
He had a lot of manpower.
He had a lot of manpower.
He had a lot of manpower.
He had a lot of manpower.
He had a lot of manpower.
Oh, look, uh, the book's been updated.
The book, hey, put the book in those notes from the top there.
The reading case is gone.
There's another.
It must be over at the AOP.
Get that reading case and also the reading case from the, uh,
on the other side and also the reading books, you know, there are three reading books that were in the Lincoln City Room.
They, you know, they had gone, well, I'll be sure that the three reading books, the three black books, and that black book on the table must have also, you know, read two days before this.
This is, go ahead.
This trip is so important.
We'll talk something about it tonight.
I did something that I hope that you'll understand.
It's a hurry on what I thought if you were looking for something.
This is for the gardener.
I have a whole grain of grain prepared for me.
Yes, I have it.
Let me get it on speed.
I'll just show you.
I just got this out of the school.
uh... uh...
I took that as a theme, and I thought that... Let's see, put that as a presentation.
That's very helpful.
Very helpful.
We, uh, I think you would be interested in a little bit, you know, I hear we, I took what I felt was a necessary action sign, which is working extremely well to bring these people to finish this war.
Well, they haven't.
Not that we didn't.
I knew there was a risk, but I didn't think we had any risk.
I just figured we couldn't leave those people without using 60,000 Americans there and have some South Vietnam overrun and go to Moscow.
You know, I couldn't be in Moscow at the time.
And Soviet tanks were running through the streets a few ways.
That was my view.
I was living with family.
The interesting thing was that the first indication we got that the Soviet was not going to cancel was
Three days, it was two days later, I got a letter from Poles.
I mean, the Poles, you know, the Poles in the past, they said they were going forward with our trip.
Well, the competition, they said, Poles would never send a letter to us without the directions on it.
So we figured that, of course.
  • 024-152 1:22 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:22 pm and 3:50 pm.
  • 024-153 3:50 PM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 3:50 pm to 3:58 pm.
  • 024-154 3:58 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:58 pm and 3:59 pm.
  • 024-155 3:59 PM · 11 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, and Stephen B. Bull talked on the telephone from 3:59 pm to 4:10 pm.
  • 725-035 4:58 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Clark MacGregor, David C. Hoopes, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:58 pm and 5:05 pm.
  • 725-036 5:05 PM · 30 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John N. Mitchell, Ray C. Bliss, White House photographer, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:05 pm to 5:40 pm.
  • 725-037 5:40 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, unknown person(s), and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:40 pm and 5:43 pm.
  • 725-043 5:54 PM · 15 sec — United States Secret Service agents met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:54 pm and 11:59 pm.

Conversation 725-038, May 16, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/725-038 (accessed November 2, 2026).