Nixon White House TapesTape 725 › Conversation 725-038

Nixon, Krol & Bull on George Wallace and Assassination attempt

Tuesday, May 16, 1972 · 5:43 PM–5:54 PM ET · Oval Office

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Krol, John Cardinal;  Bull, Stephen B.;  White House photographerConversation725-038 onTape 725 (tape position 04:57:04–05:12:07)StartTuesday, May 16, 1972 at 5:43 PMEndTuesday, May 16, 1972 at 5:54 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 725-038 ↗

President Nixon met with John Cardinal Krol to discuss the political climate following the attempted assassination of George Wallace, as well as the President’s upcoming summit in the Soviet Union. Nixon explained his decision to maintain public appearances despite the violence, emphasizing his refusal to govern under a climate of fear. The two also addressed the strategic necessity of the U.S. naval blockade in Vietnam and the positive signals regarding the stability of the Soviet summit.

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This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 04:57:04 into the tape and ends around 05:12:07.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) ·JSON data · Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.

4:57:08I'll give that to you.
4:57:17I'll give that to you.
4:57:41The ice cream was quite nice.
4:57:42It's done.
4:57:44Yeah, it's really good.
4:57:45It's really good.
4:57:46It's really good.
4:57:52That's right.
4:57:55Yeah.
4:57:56This is, uh... We don't give those ordinary folks any of those messages.
4:58:07Well...
4:58:08Here, John.
4:58:09Okay.
4:58:28Well, all right.
4:58:30So, you know, there are the other things are okay.
4:58:34Yeah.
4:58:44Thank you, my friend.
4:59:49Well, hello.
4:59:50Coming along?
4:59:53Yeah, good.
4:59:54He's coming Friday.
4:59:58Friday, right.
5:00:01He doesn't make it.
5:00:07Yeah.
5:00:11I don't hear you.
5:00:12I just didn't think they were going to be there to get used to the Soviet stuff.
5:00:17I guess so.
5:00:18I don't need it.
5:00:18I'm on her side.
5:00:20She's on the side.
5:00:21I told you she's here.
5:00:22What does that mean?
5:00:25It's about 26 hours.
5:00:26We've probably been resisting more than a couple of minutes here.
5:00:30I like that.
5:00:37Thank you.
5:01:21We might have a picture for the card.
5:01:30That was one of our wives.
5:01:36That's the tradition.
5:01:54Oh, wait a minute.
5:01:55I thought I wanted to stick mine in the chair holding it down.
5:02:04I was going to stick it under Sean's ear.
5:02:05This is a traditional picture.
5:02:06I'm sorry.
5:02:07You can go see where we had the blind dust and where it came from.
5:02:16Yeah, I've heard of some cartels.
5:02:20No, right there.
5:02:20I thought I could hear that.
5:02:24That's right.
5:02:25That's right.
5:02:31Well, that ends the last line, of course.
5:02:36Thank God.
5:02:41The press is not.
5:02:41Ireland doctors.
5:02:55He's going to have some permanent damage, whether or not he has paralysis in his legs.
5:02:58And he's going to be saying that there's a chance that just the blood is lodged in his mind, whatever.
5:03:02I don't think he's got any sense of getting it out.
5:03:03It's going to be terribly difficult to have permanent damage.
5:03:05That was it.
5:03:25He's a moronic kind of person.
5:03:27He's a loner.
5:03:28Actually, he said he was basically a
5:03:50And the Wallace man had Wallace stickers on his car.
5:03:53And his father said, he, his boy's father said, he, the father, was for Humphrey.
5:03:58The other boy is a member of the Young Democrats.
5:04:01And his son was for Humphrey, too.
5:04:04So it's a confused kind of thing.
5:04:05I don't mean to naturally put Humphrey under the bus.
5:04:08But I follow many of them and set them whole.
5:04:11They're not .
5:04:11And it's twisted mine and put on the Wallace thing.
5:04:22But investigators will probably never find out because people live, you know, he apparently had plotted this thing for some time.
5:04:32Plotted it, yeah.
5:04:36He must have been a mad shot from out here because he was shooting at point blank range.
5:04:41And we have the gun pointed at the stomach of the other guy.
5:04:45And they say something about six hands was being pressed at the guy.
5:04:49He said it was the four-eared George.
5:04:51He said it was the four-eared George.
5:04:53Yeah, that's right.
5:04:54And we had three bullets.
5:04:56We had three bullets.
5:04:57One in the arm, one up here, one down here.
5:05:00And we sprayed them around him.
5:05:02Two or three of them came to the secret service.
5:05:08I remember that a bunch of psychiatrists at the time, they had the situation of a seven-demented nurse, about 15 years old, who walked in a car into the Magentire's office.
5:05:11Oh, okay.
5:05:12I think they pulled her down and they killed her.
5:05:31The secretary who was the first to be on the job in the United States.
5:05:35She killed a person.
5:05:36And we were talking about that because there was a woman in Philadelphia who would have a hang-up about some of the police or something.
5:05:57writing letters to me, to the office, to the secretary, and so on.
5:05:59And when this happens, she wrote to the secretary, don't worry, I won't shoot you.
5:06:00And the psychiatrist says, be careful.
5:06:01Because in a confused state, the shooting, the secretary, the priest, the department's office, all of this can not be cleared.
5:06:04And she says, do this next week.
5:06:23Well, I did something today which, of course, seemed to be fine.
5:06:26So I seemed sort of worried about that.
5:06:30As you know, we've had, this was the time, I think, at Connelly.
5:06:33And we're resigning.
5:06:34We're going to stay for years.
5:06:35It must have been that good of George.
5:06:37Also, I, after I made the announcement, I walked over to the trade union developer club.
5:06:51and took him, and she also, and walked back, and the treasury building was there, and there are literally hundreds and hundreds of people who were lined up to prepare the doors to the White House.
5:07:04I did it because I had seen an editorial in the hard times as well, and the practical way
5:07:11You know, it's regurgitating because it was to the effect, well, this is a terrible thing.
5:07:15We live in a violent society, and our candidates should campaign on about tolerating the president.
5:07:21I think times would be delighted if I were shot.
5:07:23Nevertheless, I'm just not going to have a situation this country is.
5:07:28based on the free country, and it is a safe country, these things happen.
5:07:33But I thought I had to set some example to walk out among people.
5:07:37So I walked right across, and the people couldn't see me.
5:07:40Of course, not really my surprise.
5:07:42There were young people, older people, all over the world.
5:07:45And she managed to do, walk around, and to do that for children.
5:07:50We can't have a climate of fear.
5:07:51You can't run from it.
5:07:52I don't mean to shoot you rash things, but I just increased my secret service detail.
5:07:56I said, look, Wallace had 50.
5:07:58We assigned 50 secret service to Wallace.
5:08:01They couldn't stop him.
5:08:06He had a lot of bad, but a lot of bad statements for him, too.
5:08:10They couldn't stop him.
5:08:12If a man is nuts, he doesn't want to kill him.
5:08:15Right?
5:08:15But you know, for example, the
5:08:20he had hundreds around somebody it must be over the aop and get that vacation also the briefcase from the uh
5:08:46other side, and also the reading books, you know, there are three reading books that were in the Lincoln City Room.
5:08:51They, you know, they had gone.
5:08:53Well, I'll be sure that the three reading books, the three black books, and that black book on the table must have also been lost.
5:08:58I read two days before this.
5:08:59I read it.
5:08:59This is, uh, I read it.
5:09:01I read it.
5:09:01I read it.
5:09:02I read it.
5:09:02I read it.
5:09:02I read it.
5:09:03I read it.
5:09:03I read it.
5:09:18This trip is so important.
5:09:26We'll talk something about it tonight.
5:09:30I did something that I hope that you'll understand.
5:09:41Well, it's a hurry if people are looking for something.
5:09:43Well, this is for the gardener.
5:09:48Yes, I have a, let me, let me, let me get it on the screen.
5:09:54I want to show you, I just got this out of the paper this morning.
5:10:15I took that as a theme and I thought that
5:10:49That's very helpful, very helpful.
5:10:55We, uh, I can do the industry, you know, the, you know, I'm here, we, I do what I know is necessary action, which is working extremely well to bring these people to finish this war.
5:11:12Well, they haven't.
5:11:12Not to lose it.
5:11:13I knew there was a risk, but I didn't think we had any risk.
5:11:15I just figured we couldn't leave those people without using 60,000 Americans there and have some South Vietnam overrun and go to Moscow.
5:11:22Yeah, I couldn't be in Moscow at the time.
5:11:25And Soviet tanks were running through the streets a few ways.
5:11:30That was my view.
5:11:31I was thinking of Bagley.
5:11:33The interesting thing was that the first indication we got that the Soviet was not going to cancel was
5:11:41Three days, it was two days later, I got a letter from Poles.
5:11:44I mean, the Polish Union, the Polish ambassador, he said they were going forward with our trip.
5:11:56Well, the competition had been made.
5:11:58The Poles would never have sent a letter to us without the Russians knowing.
5:12:05So we figured that, of course.

On May 16, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, John Cardinal Krol, Stephen B. Bull, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:43 pm to 5:54 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 725-038 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 725-38

Date: May 16, 1972
Time: 5:43 - 5:54 p.m.
Location: Oval Office

The President met with John Cardinal Krol and Stephen B. Bull; the White
House photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting.

      President's schedule
          -Described
          -Krol's wait

      [Photograph session]
          -Location

      Sequoia cruise
          -Attendees
               -William P. Rogers
               -Gen. Alexander M. Haig, Jr.

      Photograph session
          -Location
               -Other famous visitors

      George C. Wallace
         -Assassination attempt
               -Condition
                    -Press reports
                    -President's doctor's reports

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:54 pm.

                     -Bullet's location
                           -Possible operation
                           -Consequences
                -Arthur H. Bremer
                     -The President’s view
                     -Political affiliation
                           -Wallace
                           -Hubert H. Humphrey
                           -Young Democrats
                     -Motives

                                  (rev. Jan-02)

              -Shooting ability
         -Shooting scene
              -Aim
              -Call to Wallace
         -Bullet locations
         -Secret Service agent's wounding

Other shootings
   -James Francis [Cardinal] McIntyre
         -Krol's lunch with unidentified psychiatrist
               -Office shooting
               -Murder of new secretary
               -Motive
   -An unknown woman in Philadelphia
         -Motive
         -Letter to Krol's office
               -Psychiatrist's comments
               -Comparison with McIntyre shooting

President's walk to Treasury
    -Occasion
          -John B. Connally's resignation
    -George P. Shultz
    -Handshaking with White House tourists
          -Reason
               -New York Times editorial
                      -Violent society
                      -Television campaigns
                -President's opinion
                      -Setting example
          -Description of scene
    -Presidential activities
          -Climate of fear
          -Balance

Protection
    -President's Secret Service detail
    -Wallace's detail
          -Number of Secret Servicemen
          -Supplements
                -Alabama State Police
    -Possibility of stopping killers
    -Assassination of Archduke Francis Ferdinand
          -Number of guards

                                        (rev. Jan-02)

                -Sarajevo

Bull entered at an unknown time after 5:43 pm.

      President's schedule
          -Presidential car
                -Availability
          -Camp David trip
                -Briefing books, notes, and briefcases
                      -Locations
                            -Oval Office
                            -Executive Office Building [EOB] office
                            -Lincoln Sitting Room
                      -Number
                -President's preparation for Soviet trip

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:54 pm.

               -Departure
                      -Time
          -Soviet trip
               -Importance
                      -Dinner discussion
               -A memorandum prepared by Krol
                      -Bull

      Krol story
          -National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception
          -An unknown person
          -Six Crises

Bull entered at an unknown time after 5:43 pm.

      President's schedule
          -Camp David trip
                -Briefcase

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:54 pm.

      Soviet Union
          -President's decision to blockade
                -Effect on Vietnam war
                -Effect on summit
                -Motivating factors

                                         (rev. Jan-02)

                       -Prisoners of War [POWs]
                       -US forces
                       -North Vietnam offensive
                             -Overrunning South Vietnam
                             -Tanks in Hue
                 -Possible cancellation of summit
                       -Letter to President from Polish government
                             -Day received
                             -Content
                             -Meaning
                             -Henry A. Kissinger
                             -Haig
           -Communist mindset
                 -Slavs
                 -Assumptions
                 -Outlook on wars
                       -Goals
                 -Response to President's actions
           -President's decision to blockade
                 -Difficulty
                 -Public support
                       -Support observed by Krol
                             -Philadelphia peace groups
                             -Bishop John Joseph Dougherty
                                   -Identified
                                         -Newark, New Jersey
                                         -Seton College
                                   -Pressure to sign peace statement
                                         -Krol's advice

Bull entered at an unknown time after 5:43 am.

      President's schedule
          -Time
          -Soviet trip
                -Discussions
                      -Vietnam

The President, Cardinal Krol, and Bull left at 5:54 pm.
  • 024-152 1:22 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:22 pm and 3:50 pm.
  • 024-153 3:50 PM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 3:50 pm to 3:58 pm.
  • 024-154 3:58 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:58 pm and 3:59 pm.
  • 024-155 3:59 PM · 11 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, and Stephen B. Bull talked on the telephone from 3:59 pm to 4:10 pm.
  • 725-035 4:58 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Clark MacGregor, David C. Hoopes, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:58 pm and 5:05 pm.
  • 725-036 5:05 PM · 32 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John N. Mitchell, Ray C. Bliss, White House photographer, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:05 pm to 5:40 pm.
  • 725-037 5:40 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, unknown person(s), and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:40 pm and 5:43 pm.
  • 725-043 5:54 PM · 12 sec — United States Secret Service agents met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:54 pm and 11:59 pm.

Conversation 725-038, May 16, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/725-038 (accessed September 18, 2026).