Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty (SALT)

1:10:29But that is not only about a third of the way, but it's the traffic ways.
1:10:43It's what, about another, it's about an hour.
1:10:45That's it.
1:10:47We're close to it.
1:10:53It's finally, oh, we'll see.
1:10:56You know, I'm looking at the schedule and, as I said, tentatively, it seems to me we can make it the,
1:11:12I haven't made it to the office, and it doesn't make sense.
1:11:14I may be wrong about that.
1:11:17I suppose it makes sense that maybe the equestrian can do this to me.
1:11:35Well, actually, actually,
1:11:39When you think about the Russian trip, it is so much and everything.
1:11:47I think that's right.
1:11:49But really, coming on again can only downgrade it a bit.
1:11:54I don't know if it's the only thing you can do.
1:11:57I understand this by playing back to it as you talk about other things.
1:12:00Yeah, well, we'll do that.
1:12:02You told Ray that there's going to be a speech edition, sir, and he had a thirst for it.
1:12:09He should be able to get that out.
1:12:10He thought he would, because it's a kind of attempt to disperse.
1:12:14But he's already got a lot of them done, actually.
1:12:18And I emphasized over and over to him, and I don't worry about what he'd eaten, but I made the point very strongly that it's a different audience.
1:12:29He would like to use the good material of those speeches and make a point of redoing the timing.
1:12:36story with the actual quotes in the diary.
1:12:43Oh, I was noting that there's something in here that says Republican Senators and Republican Congressmen.
1:12:48I had forgotten about that.
1:12:54Receptions.
1:12:55What is that?
1:12:56Is that for the purpose of getting pictures taken of the bastards?
1:12:59Yeah.
1:13:01You know, we were going to do that on the Republican senators, not just pictures.
1:13:05I'm not going to sit and talk with the idiots.
1:13:09I'm like, no.
1:13:09We're going to do them both as receptions.
1:13:13But just a thing where they come through, but instead of this sort of degrading.
1:13:17I'm not without the office.
1:13:18We're not there.
1:13:19Why?
1:13:19No one is standing on that screen.
1:13:23And not candidates.
1:13:25Not candidates.
1:13:25The only impression I'll say to the candidates is I'll run into somebody running against Eastman, for example.
1:13:32These are only incumbents who won.
1:13:33And it won't be all of them because most, a lot of them, they all have pictures.
1:13:37Sure.
1:13:38And some will be virtually happy to use the pictures.
1:13:40Some won't be virtually happy to use them.
1:13:43But if you go through the motion of being available to them, then you've shot down any
1:13:49complaints that the president won't even give a second.
1:13:51I understand.
1:13:51They're probably in the dining room and the other in the blue room.
1:13:55If there's more to them in the hall between the flights or something for a picture, they just don't understand.
1:14:05But I don't want to stand around and yank with them.
1:14:08I mean, I'll do a little yanking, but I don't want an actual question.
1:14:11You can do the yanking by taking them
1:14:13You know, take a minute with each of us.
1:14:15He goes, goes, comes up to the picture.
1:14:17You have to go.
1:14:18Your thought is we do the press conference.
1:14:23It's not a bad idea.
1:14:33That's before the Democrats really get going.
1:14:35It's before the holiday weekend starts.
1:14:37It's about the time we'll leave.
1:14:40Then we take off next week for California.
1:14:42Yeah.
1:14:45Congress agenda.
1:14:46That's right.
1:14:46I think we ought to do anything out there.
1:14:56What do you think?
1:15:00I wouldn't do anything in terms of a normal working, any effort to do that.
1:15:05We have still like Gateway Park to do in San Francisco, which if you wanted just to go up one day
1:15:13do an event come down we can do do one day but i i and i'd do that that first week maybe the sixth or something but i wouldn't wonder do you think i could uh flip off the floor and i could go perhaps 16th afternoon well you have to see it's very in the morning but right after the news and i could go
1:15:43You can stay.
1:15:45It's a pretty good shot.
1:15:50Stay on a couple days.
1:15:51We'll keep Monday and Tuesday clear.
1:15:52And that's not locked.
1:15:53We can move that to Wednesday.
1:15:59Well, Wednesday's your anniversary.
1:16:02Or we can move the senators to Thursday the 22nd.
1:16:14That's what they did.
1:16:16I really believe that was going to be.
1:16:18That scat deal was going to be on the 27th.
1:16:20I don't agree.
1:16:21I don't want to spend that much time on it.
1:16:24Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday night, I'll be ready to come back.
1:16:26Father's Day, what the hell?
1:16:29I'm here on Father's Day.
1:16:33That's an idiot idea anyway.
1:16:33I don't think I did that right.
1:16:36Is that right?
1:16:39To the...
1:16:40I can tell you salesmen, you know, Morris, Morris.
1:25:51And let me ask you what you would like, and I don't know whether it's going to get you more tired.
1:25:59The only other way we could do this would be the chopper off to the .
1:26:10Incidentally, they can't chop her off to the other place.
1:26:18They're not?
1:26:20Maybe.
1:26:23The only problem I have is I have to be back here at 8.15 tomorrow morning for a briefing on the SALT thing which we are submitting.
1:26:48Oh.
1:26:48The next day, and it's Aarons, Ford, Mahon, Stennis.
1:26:54Well, why'd you do this in the treaty up on Thursday?
1:26:56What you would do with me to come up the next day.
1:26:58What's your situation on Wednesday?
1:27:03Thursday, please.
1:27:04Thursday, at least.
1:27:04I could conceivably come up tomorrow night, yeah.
1:27:08I think one good night up there.
1:27:10Sleep, relaxation, and so forth.
1:27:12That I could do.
1:27:13Come back.
1:27:19But you don't have to be one.
1:27:22You don't need to have to.
1:27:23No, no, no.
1:27:24I think this, that you sit around here with your nose to the grindstone and it wears you more, I think.
1:27:32No, no, that would be.
1:27:32Also, I could get more of my work out of the way then.
1:27:37And I haven't any plans for tomorrow night.
1:27:41I haven't got any plans for tonight either, sir.
1:27:42Well, I don't agree with that.
1:27:43I beg your pardon?
1:27:44I said you'd agree.
1:27:45I tell you... Don't ever admit it.
1:27:46Don't ever admit it.
1:27:47Well, I can't do anything for both of us.
1:27:48You know, Nellie taught me some interesting things in her last night.
1:27:52I don't know how it came up, but, you know, you were kidding a little about, uh, that they haven't had enough.
1:28:01You know, they...
1:28:06But I really think that that's a good idea to send over.
1:28:31Oh, yeah.
1:28:31And it's got a lot of big play, a lot of piece.
1:28:33Just confuse that with other people.
1:28:34Is this one more?
1:28:34I wrote a personal memorandum with regard to some of my people of the countries I had visited.
1:28:40And also telling him, you've got a copy of it.
1:28:47And I suppose it should be gone today.
1:28:50It's supposed to be messaged to him.
1:28:55And in fact, saying that the theme of this trip should be
1:29:01that the President had often spoken of the five great college students, Japan, China, Soviet Union, Western Europe, and the United States.
1:29:14However, if we look at the world, that more than half of the world's people and far more than half of the world's researchers are not in
1:29:24these power centers and the president feels it's very important as he undertook by his own visit to iran to show that we have as we seek in better relations with china the rest that we have an interest in the third world and our friends in latin america and asia and the rest john will pick it up and i said i said now when you're making your toasts or when you're making your arrival statements or so forth
1:29:50Because, you know, it sort of gets us off of the balance of power, which, of course, is totally right, as we know.
1:29:56But it'll confuse the hell.
1:29:57In fact, he's going to the Indian Pakistan.
1:29:59Confuses the Indian Pakistan.
1:30:00Oh, the Indian ambassador called me up.
1:30:03Yeah.
1:30:03And said... Did he complain?
1:30:05No, no, no, no.
1:30:05He said he wanted to have a good talk with me about what went on in Moscow.
1:30:11And also about the meaning of the Conway trip, etc., in Moscow.
1:30:14I said, well, you better come see me next week.
1:30:18But you know how we are.
1:30:19We
1:30:21The Russians and we, of course, we know we're great lads, we're going to take each other's interests into account, just scare them to death.
1:30:28Yeah, and we found exactly the same thing.
1:30:31I just found it a little goofy, you know.
1:30:33The way we handled the economy, that's right, we handled India.
1:30:39Well, in the past, you told Ludo, of course, that we're very close to the Japanese, and the Indians, you...
1:30:48You don't reassure them about the trip.
1:30:50You just simply say, we're seeking better relations with the Soviet.
1:30:57We're very pleased with our relations, and they were only seeking their own interests, but that doesn't mean we don't want to seek better relations with you.
1:31:05It just depends on...
1:31:05The thing to do with the Indians is get to the feeling that the Russians and we might be cooking up some super deal at their expense.
1:31:15The only one thing, and that's the only thing I'm going to do today, but I may still go out myself tonight.
1:31:23And then I'll come up tomorrow.
1:31:24I'll get out of the stream.
1:31:28But the only thing I was going to say, and I don't think I'll do the cold water thing.
1:31:35I wouldn't do it.
1:31:39Yes, I have worked on it, Mr. President, and one reason, my honest opinion is
1:31:59It isn't quite right, right now, and it will not do you...
1:32:03It won't do you much good.
1:32:05What?
1:32:08What?
1:32:10It needs a major reorder.
1:32:12Right now, the first 15 pages of the article... Oh, Christ.
1:32:26The first 50 pages of the article deal with Vietnam.
1:32:31I think they should start with a summit.
1:32:33Why should you throw Vietnam into the debate?
1:32:36I think it's got to start with a secure world view.
1:32:39And why also put it in, but I can read that common memorandum and tell them to put that into it, too.
1:32:49I mean, I don't see the advantage we have in raising the Vietnamese.
1:32:53Oh, I couldn't agree more.
1:32:55I had lunch with Suan Aung San, the professor that is probably dying, and he said it was one of the great diplomatic feats.
1:33:05He said, you are now like a gambler on a hot streak.
1:33:13You've gone six for six, and you've made them all...
1:33:20He said, it's unbelievable.
1:33:21He said, I have to do a little work on Saul.
1:33:28Joe Alsop is writing three columns next week on Saul, in which one of them...
1:33:34He said, one of them will be exactly my life.
1:33:38One of the three.
1:33:39Yeah, let me... Pope Christ called today to say the briefing you gave the other day was the best he'd ever heard you give.
1:33:49Fulbright.
1:33:50Fulbright.
1:33:51Oh, Jesus Christ.
1:33:53And he said, just want us to know he's cooperative.
1:33:59Let me ask you this.
1:34:00Let me ask you, what can we... Well, I'd like to help Ray.
1:34:08I got Ray a little speech for Sunday.
1:34:10That's the problem now.
1:34:12He won't be all up to Thursday.
1:34:13We've got to have his copy by Monday.
1:34:16Monday?
1:34:17You see, Henry, whatever Henry's got to do, he's got to get out of the way so it doesn't bother him.
1:34:23Well, I couldn't.
1:34:24Henry's got to get his done before he leaves.
1:34:27Yeah, well, I've had Winston lowered.
1:34:28Good.
1:34:30But unfortunately, I need him to do my books for China and Japan.
1:34:33Well, who could?
1:34:34Who could?
1:34:35I guess I can take the call.
1:34:38Yeah, no, you shouldn't.
1:34:39No, really, Mr. President.
1:34:41Let me talk to you.
1:34:42Let's think of somebody who could.
1:34:44It must be.
1:34:44How about Andrews?
1:34:46Well, I thought, isn't it in pretty good shape now?
1:34:49No, Bob, the first 15 pages turned Vietnam.
1:34:51I remember the first drop that part.
1:34:54No.
1:34:54Well, it's got to be reorganized.
1:34:56Actually, much of it is, let me see whether Winston Lord can do a reorganizing job on it.
1:35:02Yeah.
1:35:03Well, isn't Lord going with you to Japan?
1:35:05Yeah, but he might be able to do it by Thursday.
1:35:08Is his books in Japan he's doing for you?
1:35:10The book on Japan is in pretty good shape.
1:35:12He's doing books on China.
1:35:13We've got that following right after it.
1:35:17Yeah, but he'll be, is he going to Japan?
1:35:19Yeah, 100%.
1:35:19Well, he can work on the damn plane, he's young.
1:35:25Oh, you need it only Monday?
1:35:28You're right.
1:35:29The average you need to finish starts on Monday.
1:35:31No, we need some... You ought to finish your review before you go.
1:35:34I will finish my review by tomorrow.
1:35:37But that's all we need.
1:35:38I don't, it isn't that important that it has to be...
1:35:42like it isn't an option.
1:35:44I can have Blackburn to be good, though, because it's an AR branch.
1:35:49You and I think so high now.
1:37:58You see, our line of duty, we have never said, I have never said that we would not come to the aid of Israel.
1:38:07I mean, even though it would be unpopular to say we were going to send America in.
1:38:10But the point is, what you do is to say, we are not going to let Israel go down the tube.
1:38:17And that is enough.
1:38:19And what we did in Jordan proved it.
1:38:21Actually, I think in a McGovern race, you would get more than you have by far than your usual percentage of the Jewish vote.
1:38:27I hope so.
1:38:28Because of the $30 billion cut, now the world has gotten around.
1:38:33that you've really stood up on a number of situations and that we gave nothing away in Moscow.
1:38:41Rabin is really floating on air.
1:38:46Well, we don't want him to float two eyes in the Russians against man.
1:38:49Oh, no, he'll be disciplined.
1:38:51Let me ask you a couple of things, which I think we could work on.
1:38:57First, on this little article,
1:39:03Maybe for the Lord, heaven.
1:39:05We are not walking in front of Christ.
1:39:08I'll get him to read that.
1:39:09Actually, the article is not wrong.
1:39:13He's picked up a lot of stuff from the World Report.
1:39:16It's just a little bit off-center, and it's better if I tell him, because...
1:39:20Right.
1:39:21Unless you want to work through the whole thing.
1:39:23No, I don't want to do it at all.
1:39:25It's a damn long article.
1:39:27I'm trying to get, can he cut the size of it for once?
1:39:30It's supposed to be long.
1:39:31He can, well, what he can do is condense the Vietnam part at the end and move it to the end.
1:39:37Yeah.
1:39:37And just say this is... Well, put the Vietnam thing in the way I did it, the direct proportion I did in the report to the Congress.
1:39:43Exactly.
1:39:43Vietnam's got to be put in perspective.
1:39:46And then come around with, well, basically we're in a new year now.
1:39:53That's the right strategy on everything.
1:39:54You can't ignore the amount because it is there, but you can sure put it into where it belongs on the big scale.
1:40:00As far as the economy is concerned, it's coming along.
1:40:03We're ending our involvement, but we're ending it without, my God, I tell you, we're kind of...
1:40:09We've got everybody watered anyway that we're cooking something up.
1:40:13But I think the Northeastern Meads are going to be in bad trouble.
1:40:17They have four months oil supplies.
1:40:19They've knocked out a month without getting to oil.
1:40:22Let's say we've knocked out another month of oil supply.
1:40:25They're running by the end of July.
1:40:26They're going to be in bad shape.
1:40:28I had to get back before you got back.
1:40:30I'm going back.
1:40:32He told me about the CIA's reports and how Walters was working on them, and I said, now Al, you're to get in here.
1:40:37I'm up here by my desk on 1st November.
1:40:41I'm on my way to cut that son of a bitch CIA right to the sword.
1:40:44I said, first of all, we'll cut all of the policy-making staff in half.
1:40:54And that means you fire half of them right there.
1:40:56And I mean firing.
1:40:57And the other half, what you do is to transfer them to Laos.
1:41:03You know, let the little guys who said they got cocktails here, get them out there and get their ass shot.
1:41:07And some of them with federal leadership, for example, this fellow George Carver, who's a Vietnam expert, before their mining operation, they had sent us a report saying that they could easily send it all in by railway.
1:41:20So I got him over.
1:41:22and talked to him and said, I want to understand this.
1:41:25If it's that easy, why didn't they do it before?
1:41:29And that sent me two-way traffic and a lot of really informational questions.
1:41:33Then I had a meeting with my staff.
1:41:36And that evening, as I told you at the time, I went around the table and said, now what do you really recommend?
1:41:42I'm going up to Camp David to talk to the president.
1:41:46I called him Carver first, and he came out for it.
1:41:49Then the next day in Wasak, Helms left us.
1:41:53I didn't even tell you that because .
1:41:57And I called George Carver, and Carver again said, do it.
1:42:01That all the intangibles of the center now, I'm saying that much to indicate that with good leadership over there, there are enough people that you could really get to perform.
1:42:13Well, let me tell you that.
1:42:14The very top of my list is looking for a new CIA director.
1:42:20It's gonna be that.
1:42:21He's also been a fine civil servant, but he's had it.
1:42:24And also, Henry, he is part of the Georgetown set.
1:42:27He can't help it.
1:42:29They all, if they stay here too long, you know, it's artificial insemination, call it what you want.
1:42:37Or mental masturbation, but it's just, it happens to everybody.
1:42:43And we're just, for God's sake,
1:42:48The head told me, the department told you, that Walters said that the day that Helms announced the mining thing that the CIA touched down, he said they were gradually in tears.
1:42:58I just thought it was so horrible.
1:43:00It's really great to have that kind of backing, isn't it?
1:43:05Really great.
1:43:06Well, we've had it.
1:43:07We've had this problem now on almost every issue.
1:43:12I'm going to get the bureaucracy together tomorrow afternoon.
1:43:16when he submits all the Thursdays, so that we can have one line on every issue that has taken hour.
1:43:22Yeah.
1:43:23Let me ask you this.
1:43:24Do you have your hand in track on that?
1:43:26Yeah, he's got the board, but... Let me ask you this.
1:43:29Let me throw up a totally weird thing.
1:43:32Hold your seat on this.
1:43:42Why do we change in this instance?
1:43:45I mean, make an exception, because of the enormous importance of the issue, and let Henry Woodman just find it anyway.
1:43:58Now, first of all, he can do it better than anybody else.
1:43:59Second, it'll give us a hell of a replay on this that we'd never get otherwise.
1:44:03Now, I'm just thinking out loud now, Erwin, you talked to him about it, and we've been around this track, but we've broken over already the planet.
1:44:14Henry could testify not on the advice he gave the President.
1:44:18Let me try to make it through in that way.
1:44:21He could simply testify with regard to the
1:44:24You see what I mean?
1:44:25I'm not thinking in terms of satisfying the Senate, but I'm thinking in terms of the tremendous advantage of the lie of toleration.
1:44:32Huh?
1:44:33The advantage of the lie of toleration.
1:44:35We could say, gentlemen, this is an exception.
1:44:39Dr. Kirchner cannot and will not justify on anything, any person in private conversations or confidential conversations with regard to the president.
1:44:47But he will justify with regard to, look, and his own diagnosis.
1:44:51a thing about the goddamn thing.
1:44:53Rogers doesn't know any more.
1:44:54I know what the damn holds, and he does.
1:44:57And I don't know much.
1:44:59Well, I do understand it some, because I've had it.
1:45:02No, I said there's no comparison between what you know and what you don't.
1:45:04I don't know much.
1:45:04I really don't.
1:45:06But, you know, and you need somebody up there that can, Henry could tear, you could have him eaten out of your hand.
1:45:12You know what I mean?
1:45:14Rather than going through the agonies, they'd otherwise make an issue out of it.
1:45:16Why don't you get what you're trying to find?
1:45:20Why don't we wait until they're out of the border?
1:45:23They already have.
1:45:25They have.
1:45:25No, not formally, but they've started the drug business.
1:45:29All right.
1:45:30They're trying to get out of this another way.
1:45:33And my view is that I drank it.
1:45:35I drank it just a little.
1:45:38Yeah.
1:45:46But then I go to it and I say, because of the enormous importance of this historic step, and because it does involve some matters in which Mr. Drew is particularly, you know, has expertise, is head of the verification panel.
1:46:04Aren't you head of the verification?
1:46:06But the thing, I'm delighted to do it.
1:46:08I just wonder whether it doesn't set a precedent which... Sure it does, and that's the argument we'll get.
1:46:14All right, that's the argument.
1:46:16That's the argument.
1:46:18I know the next time it comes around, it's all go to hell.
1:46:21That's...
1:46:27I would say this is a matter of executive privilege.
1:46:32In this instance, I waived it.
1:46:35I waived it because of the issue.
1:46:42And because he had information.
1:46:43In other cases, I'll say the Secretary of State or the Secretary of Defense has all, they can testify on all these things.
1:46:50But Dr. Chisholm, of course, has had a verification panel in that capacity.
1:46:55But how would I testify?
1:46:57Rogers would testify, Laird would testify, and I'd testify.
1:47:00And Smith.
1:47:01And Smith.
1:47:02Yeah.
1:47:02Thank you.
1:47:03We can't avoid those people going out.
1:47:05There's no way we can stop them.
1:47:06They'll call them.
1:47:08Well, could we have them?
1:47:09Would I go first or last?
1:47:11I'd have to go last.
1:47:12Well, no way.
1:47:14At that time, it'd be important.
1:47:17I think everyone should go first.
1:47:18Go first to set the line so that everybody else has to follow them.
1:47:21Yeah.
1:47:22You see...
1:47:25I really feel if Henry could go first, he would be a smash hit.
1:47:28And after all, he did it.
1:47:31He did the goddamn thing.
1:47:32It puts it right in the president's lap, too, rather than that goddamn state's lap.
1:47:37Not that people don't know it, but I'm just thinking about it.
1:47:40I thought about it the second we talked.
1:47:43Why don't we play a little bit of a game for a change?
1:47:53I think it's a great idea.
1:47:56traditionalist sort of thing.
1:47:57I know what that position is.
1:47:59I mean, we broke the original plan.
1:48:01Yeah, but we had a... We were under the gun.
1:48:04Yeah, we were under the gun.
1:48:05We had extenuating circumstances and it was restricted testimonies.
1:48:09We laid the ground rules under which, well, we only had the ground rules.
1:48:13Dr. Kessinger will only testify with regard to the specific, and then you can interrupt me if you want, specific provisions of the solid arrangements, to the specific provisions of the solid arrangements and the verification of comments and analysis of them.
1:48:28See my point?
1:48:30Now, then he can answer questions that he wants.
1:48:35He says he's going to do things like that.
1:48:37And if they say, well, he can get to the president, even then, he can always cop out on things.
1:48:40Well, that's a matter of presidential privilege.
1:48:41I can't discuss that.
1:48:43You would probably have to say that you would probably not find it.
1:48:49I could probably get it out of it.
1:48:50Something about it, anyway.
1:48:54As long as they don't call me.
1:48:56He had to take a lot of them, even the senators sitting there waiting to protect him.
1:49:04You still have to say, what the hell are they going to get out of this?
1:49:07What the hell can they get on to?
1:49:11Not a damn thing.
1:49:12No, they really can't.
1:49:13They can say, what, did the president give away?
1:49:15They can say nothing.
1:49:18I wouldn't have to avoid asking that.
1:49:19No, sure.
1:49:21No, but he was there.
1:49:22What secret agreement?
1:49:24Yeah, the doctor says I was present at every meeting.
1:49:30Scoop Jackson's stuff, that's all his argument would be.
1:49:35Henry, the one thing I was going to say is this, that I know you're concerned about giving any kind of anything
1:49:46our own people in a setting.
1:49:50No, I'm working on something that I'm going to give Colson tonight.
1:49:55We have a basic speech text.
1:49:57Oh, I see.
1:49:58And the basic, we have three documents.
1:50:00One thing we can give to newspapers.
1:50:03One thing that can be a basic speech.
1:50:06And one thing that can be a fact sheet, which we can just give out.
1:50:11He says, follow up to this.
1:50:13No, no, I have that.
1:50:17I know the dangers of doing it because somebody will screw something up.
1:50:24But you need our speakers and you need frankly our own White House staff people to go out.
1:50:30This is our issue and we ought to have them talking to them and running out of their mouths.
1:50:35If we can.
1:50:35No, no.
1:50:36The problem is to get a line established that they can talk so they don't get in the position of answering questions that they're not capable of.
1:50:42No, I'm strongly in favor.
1:50:44The only reason I haven't finished it is because it's a big package with a lot of different things.
1:50:49But I'll have it over to Colson first thing in the morning.
1:50:52My concern is not unwillingness to do that.
1:50:56My concern is that this thing is selling itself so well that if we get a lot of guys huckstering it too much...
1:51:04That we're gonna kill him.
1:51:07That's my worry.
1:51:08He's absolutely right.
1:51:09My worry is not that those who have a normal track.
1:51:12But the point is, there are people who can't avoid talking about it.
1:51:15And they should have it.
1:51:16I'm worried that they may not say the right thing.
1:51:18They must have it.
1:51:19They don't have to be a government.
1:51:21The thing they should simply say is, it wasn't the President's trip, a great thing.
1:51:27Isn't it great for finding other control arguments?
1:51:30There is no person that I've run into who dares to criticize your trip.
1:51:36And everybody, I mean, this trip, people just say it's a tremendous success.
1:51:41I hate to ask them, you know, what's the success?
1:51:44Be interested to find out what they think the success is.
1:51:46They don't know.
1:51:47They don't know.
1:51:48And it doesn't matter.
1:51:49It's just that they think it was a success.
1:51:50But everybody thinks it's a success.
1:51:53Well, not just a success.
1:51:56They all think it was a triumph.
1:51:59A triumph.
1:52:00And for once,
1:52:01The other fascinating thing is that there hasn't been, to my knowledge, one drop.
1:52:20of stuff about Bill Rogers was kicked aside or didn't get properly treated.
1:52:24We handled that correctly.
1:52:26Not one drop sent into the flower market.
1:52:29And the state has no interest in putting it out.
1:52:31Oh, thank you, sir.
1:52:33Good God, he got this picture.
1:52:37It was just the right, that's all Bill needs.
1:52:40You just got to get him in the act.
1:52:42But it really has been fascinating.
1:52:45As contrast to the channel, remember, where there was this... My pilot said garbage about how he would listen.
1:52:50You don't know how close it was the first time.
1:52:52Yeah, I know.
1:52:54Come on, he got me straight on the junction.
1:52:56Because I heard... That was a credible performance.
1:53:00And then he said... Don't do that!
1:53:02And he said, if I don't work on the communique, I'm leaving.
1:53:04Yeah.
1:53:04Thank God he didn't.
1:53:07Hell, we cut the communique in great shape.
1:53:11Marty Hillenbrand was quite helpful to us.
1:53:13He behaved?
1:53:16He behaved.
1:53:16He had no suggestions.
1:53:17It wasn't that he couldn't communicate.
1:53:19He had a few word changes.
1:53:20Has he been there for a while, Jeremy?
1:53:37I think we did foreign policy here in very good shape.
1:53:42And you could just find a way to belt those, belt a piece of him out of the box.
1:53:48A little more.
1:53:49We've got the news this morning.
1:53:51They interrupted the CBS morning news.
1:53:53We've got a flash bullet.
1:53:55South Vietnamese have recaptured the city of Khmer Thu.
1:53:59I don't know if they lost it.
1:54:00They haven't recaptured it.
1:54:02They've cleared them all out of it.
1:54:05I think we have a chance of breaking it by the end of August.
1:54:12They are too isolated now.
1:54:13Well, it's not too late.
1:54:17It must be awful lonely in Hanoi.
1:54:19Well, you just got to keep right at it.
1:54:24Keep punishing them.
1:54:26Keep punishing them with just the right degree of punishment.
1:54:31I'm going to have to ask the way Johnson did it, not the way it was done.
1:54:34We have disrupted them more in these six weeks of bombings than Johnson ever did in four years.
1:54:42I mean, when they admit that they're having major difficulties, which they did, and now they've published an article warning us of versus the draconian steps are going to be taken.
2:01:31chocolate in there.
2:01:35They're not sure.
2:01:36They're not sure that maybe the bugs moved in there or something.
2:01:39I just don't think I want to.
2:02:42They're not sure.
2:02:43They're not sure that maybe.
2:03:05Okay, you heard about it.
2:03:07So I come up tomorrow afternoon?
2:03:09Yeah, well, the main thing is to do the thing that's going to be the most relaxing for you and so forth.
2:03:17And if you would, on that article...
2:03:20I will have the article in the States so that a speechwriter with Haig's assistance...
2:03:26I mean, I'll get the organization set.
2:03:28I'll knock out the things that I object to most.
2:03:31I think the Vietnam section ought to be sharply condensed.
2:03:36And I'll have that in shape by Thursday morning at the latest.
2:03:42And I've got Peterson programmed on the train stage.
2:03:46I had a session with him this morning.
2:03:50And he is confident in his eye that by the end of December, I gave him a deadline around September 1st.
2:03:56We won't let him breathe inside.
2:03:59And I'll work with the breathing and things to get it done.
2:04:06So that's, well, you give me the time whenever that's your most good.
2:04:09It would be a good time.
2:04:14You want to have some good news reminding back of this thing, and I'd say in September, the 1st of September, middle of September, we could have something.
2:04:25We could do it very good.
2:04:29No, we shouldn't.
2:04:30We're not going to get something.
2:04:33You're pretty sure of that?
2:04:35I had a feeling myself that Vietnam, if it's going to crack this summer, will crack sooner than
2:04:58Yeah, but this is a tough decision for them.
2:05:01My estimate is that I could propose a meeting to them for about the 27th, 28th, and then it may crack, and then we may be winding it up.
2:05:13We won't wind it up.
2:05:13We want something that we can announce, probably about a meeting, about the justice that our great convention begins.
2:05:25We could operate it one way or another.
2:05:33Well, one thing we could speed the process up is to get a statement of principle signed first.
2:05:40And that will shut everyone up through the election and push the final negotiations out.
2:05:45We could get a ceasefire.
2:05:50There'll be a de facto ceasefire anyway.
2:05:52If you could just get the announcement of a ceasefire, I don't care what happens on other things.
2:05:58People would obviously say that we're working on that and starting negotiating.
2:06:02No, I think that would be part of the statement of principle.
2:06:06Maybe we could fire a three-month ceasefire.
2:06:09One of their nightmares is the ceasefire.
2:06:16Uh, last forever in their stock.
2:06:19The thing is, the thing is, uh, let me say, try the New Eastern tactic.
2:06:22Try it, why not?
2:06:22Ceasefire.
2:06:23Let me tell you, that'll, that'll bust us right out of the campaign.
2:06:26I mean, you've got to ceasefire everybody that you're leading going on.
2:06:31Provided it's combined with some period of action.
2:06:37I'm trying to get the time to say, because I don't think we can get...
2:06:43I think we have a chance to settle the whole ball of wax.
2:06:46It is not excluded.
2:06:48I do not exclude that we may settle the whole ball game by September.
2:06:56We might get a three-month ceasefire, but then nothing else.
2:07:00plus intensive negotiations but what the hell is the government going to say during the campaigns and he'll do better than a g5 it's coming to an end
2:07:20Oh, yes.
2:07:21I feel this day, yesterday, you could change that.
2:07:25Oh, yeah.
2:07:25I'm coming up tomorrow night.
2:07:29That's a good idea.
2:12:56If you leave within 20 minutes, you can land again.
2:12:57All right.
2:12:57Whichever bring the chopper in now.
2:13:01Thank you.
2:13:01Sure.
2:13:02Can't blame you for wanting the mother in this, Stephanie.
2:13:14You brought her this far off.
2:13:17I think this doesn't want somebody to get out and screw it up.
2:13:20And I think that he could push this, but he's so rough on those guys.
2:13:24He's doing it all for Colson in here.
2:13:27He gets up and, God damn, Flax, you're going to ruin this whole thing.
2:13:36He comes around.
2:13:37He's right, too.
2:13:38And I agree with you.
2:13:39If you don't, there's a very fine line here.
2:13:42There is a danger with Colson.
2:13:43He sees something good, and he's going to run with it.
2:13:48You can oversell this one.
2:13:50You could do too hard, but too much pressure.
2:13:52We got here, particularly client sculling.
2:14:02I think my anger goes on.
2:14:03I make it a client sculling, then.
2:14:04Is that part of it?
2:14:08If you move, there's a good time.
2:14:10A sculling can just be a
2:14:20Scaling has the foreign policy background and his postmanship role that he can capitalize on.
2:14:33I was there and he's very believable.
2:14:37I just like to tool them in.
2:14:47I wouldn't get stuck very high, because I don't, they're working a different kind of, yeah, and it's a, it's more angled where I think just the two of them would be good.
2:14:53I mean, a lot of the two of them, I could say they'd talk.
2:14:54I didn't see the pressure.
2:14:57I didn't see a lot of people in pressure.
2:15:09That was really why I was a prisoner in the crime.
2:15:34say you'd hoped to come by and seeing that the weather was such that they made you come right on in.
2:15:41Bill understands that.
2:15:42He knows about flying weather and all that.
2:15:44It's nice to say you wanted to come by.
2:15:47It would be damn good to call him though.
2:15:50You know, I look back, I was thinking back to that enormous blip that was a big blip that Johnson got out of Glassboro.
2:16:02And then 60 days later,
2:16:04And he went up to 57, another 35, something like that, which was the highest he'd been in several months.
2:16:0860 days later, he was 39, 46, something like that.
2:16:12How is this different from that?
2:16:13There's more substance with some, too, doesn't there?
2:16:17Could it be?
2:16:18It's a question.
2:16:23You won't be able to get the chapter in here.
2:16:36It's pretty clear.
2:16:37Yeah.
2:16:37Yeah.
2:16:37Yeah.
2:16:37Yeah.
2:16:37Yeah.
2:16:37Yeah.
2:16:38Yeah.
2:16:38Yeah.
2:16:38Yeah.
2:16:38Yeah.
2:17:07We've done an awful lot in the damn country.
2:17:09Boy, that's bleeding out all the way to the domestic banks where I think we've got a lot of money to get credit for.
2:17:13I mean, cooling for the banks, Supreme Court, fighting the permissiveness and all that, you know, standing up against the radicals.
2:17:17Beyond that, this international deal is going to, it really is going to achieve enormous importance.
2:17:20I don't need to say it.
2:17:21And you know, the bad I understated in the,
2:17:38Very well.
2:17:38You've gotten a lot of credit for that.
2:17:39Yep.
2:17:39But I have read the news and read the editorials and I've been too right.
2:17:41I could just click one of them.
2:17:42It was just nice.
2:17:42It was super refundable.
2:17:43They've been so good at it.
2:17:43And so, you know, almost...
2:18:06Yeah.
2:18:06Well, no, no.
2:18:07Not just on the substance.
2:18:07And not, really not as much.
2:18:08The substance, yes, is a great milestone for world peace and all that.
2:18:11But more on the thing, which is the amazing thing, that Nixon deserves all the credit for this.
2:18:14That this is something, you know, he's put this together and he's gone out and done it.
2:18:30stood up to them, fought it through.
2:18:34We can trust Nixon, be busy, which works awfully well.
2:18:38This is the conservatives saying, this is something, you know, they're not so sure this is exactly the right thing.
2:18:45Maybe we're getting a tough bargaining spot with the Russians and all that.
2:18:52But Nixon, we know Nixon would never sell his country out.
2:18:55Other people would be wondering.
2:19:04And a lot of justification on the arms, you know, the specifics that where they began in the superiority and sufficiency arguments.
2:19:14One thing, of course, we do have a massive lead in mortgage.
2:19:17That's because of our... Jackson's arguing about overkill capability and all this.

Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty (SALT)

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on June 6, 1972

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