Conversation 778-006

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Hi there, how are you?

It's a great privilege to have you again.

I see you after 14 months.

Yeah, it's about 15, I'm off.

14 months.

Well, what's the matter?

I said, I was two weeks before July 15th.

And I called and they said it was June 1st.

And looking back, I can see, Mr. President, you gave me some pretty good audience.

You told me that.

If I could reconcile and keep up that confidence and morale, I'd have a lot to work with.

There'd be no change in our essential policy toward Taiwan.

The mutual defense treaty would be maintained, so I'd have something to work with.

So, with the benefit of hindsight, I'd say you gave me some pretty broad insight.

Although, of course, my assumption then was that you had in mind more the relaxation rate, trade and travel.

Tell me, how is, uh, how is, uh, what is the feeling in the government circles now?

They, uh, they, uh, the GMO now, it's old.

He'll, uh, he'll be 85, and I hope the next month, I'll have him recovered from his, uh, unfortunately, he hasn't fully recovered.

He's, he's slowly complexing.

There's pretty serious bronchial involvement he has.

He did have, but, uh, he's still very, you know, the doctors

We'll leave it covered.

But still phenomenal.

I don't think he has any chronic illness, no sign of cancer, of heart disease, anything like that.

It's just this acute bronchial infection, which I believe the doctors are getting under control, but it has been.

It's practically just a race.

It shouldn't be 75 feet, six or seven.

I guess that's about it.

It needs to weigh quite a bit more than that.

Quite a remarkable group of men, or two or three.

They're in how long they lasted.

There was Churchill, and of course Eisenhower, and de Gaulle, and Ednauer, and I guess you can kill you.

I mean, who, of course, was afterwards.

But all these men I've seen, they were very old.

Churchill had a stroke.

He was sharp.

He knew what was going on.

And then the others were just, man, head and arm.

They all were good to the last.

And Eisenhower was good to the last.

And here this fellow was just amazing.

I guess, man, it's easy to be the most terrible of all.

But to have an even real physical charm as she has at the age of 70 is something.

I'd say she's just as lovely and just as engaging and charming as she was the last time you saw her.

And to turn on them and think of that period of the World War.

When they were sitting in the Great Councils, you could see how much heat on them.

Here they are sitting on Taiwan.

Taiwan, of course, is more than three-fourths of the miserable countries that make up the U.N.

But on the other hand, they know what they are and what they could be.

God, they must burn their tails.

It's just too bad.

Too bad.

Well, I think you've just got to give them the usual reassurances that we're caught in a tough battle.

I mean, they were perhaps like, you can't say they're Japanese.

I mean, you do this, you do that, and you try.

It just doesn't work.

We worked on it.

Not the old, I mean, this would never happen to me.

This is a little terrier.

He's running around.

That's what you have here, I assume.

The other thing that's done, which the J-Law, who we really make some world terms,

He said it has very significantly changed the world balance of power, as you know.

It's had one hell of an effect on the Russians.

He may see it differently than others, but that's been an enormous event.

As far as people understand, he still has this profound distrust of the Russians.

He's always trying to show them.

And they're very appreciative of the fact that we have not gone anything like this far as the Japanese and other friends, former friends of theirs have gone.

They do look to us in a lot of ways to help them out, keep some precedence in the National Financial Institutions.

All of us are not directing them to not take a strong position on that.

They don't have anything.

I think it will.

I don't.

and with country after country, serving relations with them.

If labor went to Australia, I think the next day the Australians would break the currency and establish relations with the mainland.

Most of Latin America

Thailand seems to be wavering a little.

Joe and I went all out to roll out the red carpet for that ping pong team recently.

So we're seeing the diplomatic war that has shrunk month by month, and it's difficult for them to get in any national conference.

We've had a problem with our endangered species conference, our own conference right here in Washington.

We wanted them there, we invited them, but it turned out that

of the critical countries, including the African countries, the home of most of these endangered species, wouldn't even come if the Republic of China showed up.

That's the dilemma we're up against.

One way or another, I think we've got to try to prevent that total isolation.

But they're showing a lot of heart.

They wouldn't give up even if they are totally isolated, except for us.

They're still trying to make a go of it.

In a lot of ways, they are.

exports for the first six months of this year are up 38% over the same period of last year.

They're showing great resourcefulness in finding ways of increasing trade, even with countries that have broken with them.

Canada is one example.

Canada was one of the first to break this wave.

They've increased that trade substantially with Canada.

And that trade with Western Europe is going to happen, even though Belgium broke with them.

It was hard to turn it back in.

economic development on a major scale without inflation.

I've told them once or twice, half in jest, that I wish they could teach us something about that.

Of course, the secret, though, is that they've got a disciplined labor force that doesn't strike and works like jury.

Gradually, their benefits are increasing, but not head over heels.

It's on a very controlled basis.

It takes, I guess, in a sense, a sort of semi-authoritarian society to put that over.

It just couldn't be done here the way they do it.

They have all strikes, for instance.

But it works for them.

Tsang Chin-po, I think, is doing very well.

And he would be the titular head of the government to, if anything, come to the GMO during the present six-year term.

But even during that period, although he'd be the front man, he would have some real power and status, too, because he's a very considerable man in his own right, you know, a man of real stature.

time in fiscal matters.

So he still has a real substantive role and the titular role to be the front man.

But Chang Ching-po has all the reins of power and he would be running things, but in close concert with Xi Jinping, they get along very well.

So I think there'd be continuity and stability if President Chang's time should come soon.

I don't anticipate that

And it's a great feeling of warmth for you as the chief of our state, and personally for you and Mr. Nixon, and President and Mrs. Chalmers.

Last time I saw him, which was some months ago, I've been in this country since late July, but he reiterated in warmest terms how I regard

The tragedy is that we have to be here when these historical forces work against us because we were waiting to do it otherwise it would be done.

You can see where we are.

And because from a personal standpoint, they're among the great people in the world.

And they've been personal.

You did the right thing as one of the great creative masters

of your policy is that it is really respectful of the domestic criticism of our China policy.

It just hasn't been...

New York Times has taped it off on criticism.

Western Post even.

They put a cover on that.

That's something.

I believe they see that.

And my good access to the warmth which I've received and just a close personal empathy is unchanged, as you recall in all this.

Well, we are.

I take no credit for that.

bitter pill because they know how I feel about the folks that are personally in their philosophy of government.

But we had to do this for very basic national security reasons.

And if you could just continue to reassure them, that's a tough post.

on the average for an investor to stay at one post, but if you want me there a while longer, I'm certainly willing to stay a while longer.

Yeah, you can plan to stay a while longer, because it wouldn't change anything now that we have an accident.

You're one of the few people in the Forest Service they trust, and with good reason.

Well, I find it's even better.

They know that I haven't gone native there.

It goes without saying, it's my own country, first, last, and always.

Well, we should, well, thank you.

They're great people.

Yeah.

I'm going back to my shelter.

I miss you.

Well, you can tell the captain of that ship.

I took President Wilson from San Francisco to Numea to the Caledonia in 1943.

That's right.

Well, well.

We had 3,000 on that.

And I went over as a lieutenant to the junior grade officer to the Numea to the Caledonia.

President Wilson, how's that?

All right then.

And so that's for you and the gracious lady.

She never forgets your kindness in saying that she bears a slave.

I remember this.

She really cherishes that conviction on your part.

She's a great person.

And enjoy that 18 days.

Obviously, you don't get seasick.

That doesn't matter.