Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 782 › Conversation 782-001

Nixon, White & Bull on Foreign policy and Domestic policy

Monday, September 18, 1972 · 4:31 PM–5:30 PM ET · Oval Office · 9 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); White, Theodore H.; Bull, Stephen B.; Sanchez, ManoloConversation782-001 on Tape 782StartMonday, September 18, 1972 at 4:31 PMEndMonday, September 18, 1972 at 5:30 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 782-001 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with political journalist Theodore H. White to discuss the administration's political philosophy and the President's vision for a potential second term. The conversation covered a wide range of topics, including foreign policy objectives, the necessity of returning to traditional American values, and the state of the 1972 campaign. Nixon expressed his desire to establish a lasting structure of peace and indicated a willingness to provide White with detailed insights into his diplomatic initiatives, specifically the historic visit to the People's Republic of China, for use in White's ongoing book project.

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NARA Description

On September 18, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Theodore H. White, Stephen B. Bull, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:31 pm and 5:30 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 782-001 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 781-32/782-1

Date: September 18, 1972
Time: Unknown between 4:31 pm - 5:30 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Theodore H. White.

[An unknown portion of the conversation was not recorded while the tape was changed.]

            The President's review of first term
                -Congress
                    -Republican split
                         -[Thomas] Woodrow Wilson
                              -Third parties
                                  -George C. Wallace
                              -Democratic vote
                    -Democratic split
                         -Wallace
                              -Republican vote

            The President’s second term
                -Opportunities
                    -The President’s view
                    -Foreign policy
                         -Structure of peace
                              -The President’s view
                -Domestic policies
                    -The President’s State of the Union speeches
                         -Environmental policies
                         -New American Revolution
                    -Government reorganization
                    -Welfare reform
                    -Six great goals
                    -Health
                    -Revenue sharing
                    -100 days of Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1933
                         -The President’s trip to California
                              -Press
                    -The President’s view
                                               2
                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                          -Values
                          -Pride
Show the rest of the log (51 more lines)
Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 4:31 pm.

             The President's schedule
                 -Executive Office Building [EOB]
                     -Forthcoming meeting
                          -William E. Brock, III

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:30 pm.

             Foreign policy
                 -White’s book [The Making of the President, 1972]
                     -Deadline
                     -Next term
                 -The President's trip to the People's Republic of China [PRC]
                     -The President’s view
                          -Leaks
                              -PRC, Soviet Union
                     -The President’s previous conversation with White, 1967
                          -New York
                 -US-Soviet Union relations
                     -Effect on US allies
                 -Middle East
                 -Peace
                     -1976
                 -Uganda
                 -Latin America

             Peace in Europe

             Vietnam
                 -Paris negotiations
                     -The President’s view
                 -Korea

             1972 campaign
                 -1956 campaign

             The President's schedule
                 -EOB office
                                               3
                        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                      -White

Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 4:31 pm.

             Instructions from the President
                  -Residence

The President, White and Sanchez left at 5:30 pm.

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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We got through it a lot because, you see, he had Congress.
That's what it is, right?
Remember?
Wilson had a Democratic Congress.
But we, on our third-party situation, let me put it this way, with our third-party situation, it happened.
Wallace suffered us more than the other side.
Whereas, in Wilson's case, you see, he was just looking around.
And the Republicans, because they're all welcome.
But what they're having is, we're at Wilson's.
Not this time.
While Wallace was a Democrat, he was taking basically what was ours.
But anyway, the first four years have been difficult.
The next four years will not be easy.
But they will provide enormous opportunities to exploit the breakthroughs that we made in foreign policy, to leave a real structure of peace.
The world will never be totally peaceful.
Men are always going to fight.
There's always going to be a need for outcomes, because there are bad people
They're bad leaders, and they're good leaders.
And it will always be that way.
I am, unfortunately, not one of those who believes in perfectibility of man.
I wish he were so, but this is the way history tells me the world works.
But on the domestic front, what we have here, you see, is an opportunity that we just couldn't even dream of when we came in before.
Sure, I made some outstanding State of the Union proposals
the quality of life, you know, an environment for us in 1970.
And then in 1971, the two American revolutions, government reorganization, sixth grade goals, health, welfare, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Where have we gone?
Well, revolutionary is a start.
It's pretty good.
But there is more to be done.
But I want to emphasize that I see what more to be done.
I do not see it in the revolutionary term.
that we saw in 32.
I spoke of the 100 days when I was out in California with the press about three or four weeks ago.
But when I speak of the 100 days, I do not, as I said to them, I'm not speaking of the type of 100 days we had.
And then the nation needed some very strong medicine.
Now what the nation needs is something quite different.
We've got to look over all of our institutions.
And we've got to have a return to the old values.
We've got to return to the old values.
We have to reestablish pride in country, pride in work, pride in our institutions, instead of .
I'd like to go over to the EOB, and I'm going to go out there and just write a short note on this.
I hope, frankly, I can see if we get an ad in the election sometime on the group.
Oh, fine, fine.
And one thing, NAFTA will be easier, actually.
I think, and I don't think about it very much, is that I'd rather stick around here for a few foreign policy days.
But afterwards, it would be, in that period, it would be an easy time.
It would probably be an easy time.
What time do you get your deadline?
I suppose it's booked by Monday, 15th.
Oh, but we spoke last time in January after the election.
We spoke several times in December.
If after the election, we can go ahead and again, this domestic thing, grant.
There's one way out.
What do you all know if you can afford that?
I'm not prepared to talk about some of them yet.
There's one other thing I would like to take up with you some future day.
I don't know how far I can probe you on the Peking visit.
Oh, sure.
I'd love to be able to talk to you before I...
I don't know.
How it really happened.
How it really happened.
I would like to bring this book.
Oh, wait.
How it came about or what happened when we were there.
What happened this winter.
And I leave that with you as a thought.
Sure.
Because if you take...
I can talk pretty much about my evaluations of the men, you know, what happened to the Soviets.
It really was, of course,
the most unexpected and the most important thing in the history of the world.
Unexpected because you said that to me in 1967.
I know, you're one of the few.
At the moment that you said that to me, that I came over to Nixon's side, there were 67 back there in New York who said, I've got to do it.
So I had not, but I got most impressed to think it was ever going to happen.
But it did, and, uh... Well, that, you see, is where the world, the old world breaks down.
That's right.
And really had a chance to make a tree, a fucking tree.
That's the case.
And which I don't even take for a place like the Middle East, the way they're, that's a, well, it'll probably work out.
But then again, you know where it's going to be settling.
Between Russia and the United States.
They just got to some way or other without, of course, either of us
getting in the doghouse with our ally, our friend.
And that is tough.
Basically, if we don't get the Russians to quit dabbling around, we've got to dabble.
What's that?
I just think it would be a wonderful thing to leave this place in 1976 without a gun shooting anywhere.
Oh, God.
I want that to happen before 76.
Oh, yes.
Yes, I want that.
I'd have to leave after that.
Yes.
I want that.
I'd like that.
Yeah.
But I think as far as Europe is concerned, as far as Asia is concerned, I think it can be done.
I think it can be done.
And I think it's going to come.
They're not still in hand, sir.
But as you know, they're still in the law.
We aren't just twiddling our thumbs in Paris.
We can't say we're not twiddling our thumbs in Paris.
You feel some part of us don't you?
I won't say that because the moment you're out there, what they're so sensitive about is whether or not it is.
I'll tell you what, the real problem is whether they really have to 25 years of war.
whether they want to make these .
The Koreans did.
They finally decided what they had.
I mean, now they had to step up to the divided country.
Now the question is, what are these people with these premises?
But it's very, let me say, if any rational people were involved, there wouldn't be any question, because the evidence is too strong.
We'll see.
I must say, you'll have the answer to that.
What are you going to wait for me to decide?
They won't be like the others.
They're not going to go dancing across six reaches a day and all that.
Look, I told you this is 1956.
I suppose age creates an affection.
You know, the only men in this policy are longer than me.
Yeah.
You want me to come with you?
Yeah, I'll walk with you.
I think it looks like you've seen this building.
You've never seen that?
Or were you with the OVP?
I'm at an office.
Did you come over to see me there?
No, I didn't.
You're at home?
Uh, that can go to, uh, the residents.
Yes, my way back.
And, uh, anytime.
And, uh, I'll go over here.

Also recorded on September 18, 1972

  • 358-012 2:30 PM · 17 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:30 pm to 3:15 pm.
  • 781-029 3:15 PM · 53 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Elliot L. Richardson, James D. Hodgson, Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger, Kenneth R. Cole, Jr., James H. Falk, Richard K. Cook, Thomas C. Korologos, and John D. Ehrlichman met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:15 pm to 4:19 pm.
  • 781-030 4:19 PM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John D. Ehrlichman, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:19 pm to 4:25 pm.
  • 781-031 4:30 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at 4:30 pm.
  • 781-032 4:31 PM · 27 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Theodore H. White, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:31 pm and 5:30 pm.
  • 782-002 5:30 PM · 26 sec — United States Secret Service agents and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:30 pm and 11:59 pm.
  • 356-001 5:35 PM · 16 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Theodore H. White, William Brock, Oliver F. ("Ollie") Atkins, Kenneth C. Rietz, White House photographer, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:35 pm to 6:55 pm.
  • 356-002 6:56 PM · 57 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 6:56 pm to 6:57 pm.

All 44 conversations from September 18, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 782-001, September 18, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/782-001 (accessed November 15, 2026).