Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 790 › Conversation 790-004

Nixon & Kissinger on Vietnam War and Nguyen Van Thieu

Monday, October 2, 1972 · 9:38 AM–9:43 AM ET · Oval Office · 5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.Conversation790-004 on Tape 790StartMonday, October 2, 1972 at 9:38 AMEndMonday, October 2, 1972 at 9:43 AMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 790-004 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discussed the status of Vietnam peace negotiations, specifically reporting on Alexander Haig's recent meeting with President Nguyen Van Thieu regarding U.S. withdrawal proposals and the political implications of a constituent assembly. The two also coordinated strategy for Nixon's upcoming meeting with Soviet Foreign Minister Andrei Gromyko, focusing on keeping Secretary of State William Rogers distanced from sensitive negotiation details. Finally, they finalized a timeline for initiating the second round of Strategic Arms Limitation Talks (SALT II) to ensure the administration maintained control over the diplomatic announcement schedule.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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We heard from Hayes that the talk was through, and it went reasonably well.

He didn't ask him to resign, which, the more I've thought about it, would really be too much right now.

But Chew obviously expected that he'd be asked to resign, so when he wasn't asked, and was asked only to accept Arnold's proposal, he was quite constructive.

And I think that new protocol for what we're giving them is a new kind of security.

It's bloody committees.

It's a total withdrawal of American troops.

There's got to be a limit, Mr. President.

We can't also, on top of it, dismantle the goddamn government, do we?

At least not in the first round.

Not in the first round at all.

better after the election than before.

That's why I need that new proposal, though.

There's no chance of filling my string with the old one.

The only thing we have to remember is that in terms of this thing, sure, we say they've bought for 25 years, and they can't be expected not to get something.

Well, what the hell about us?

I mean, we're doing a little better than they are at the moment.

We've got to get something out of them, too.

And so it just wasn't...

On the other hand, we are at the peak of our strength now.

We will not be this strong next summer, militarily.

But we don't have to settle it this month.

And we can get the...

If we can get him to agree to the constituent assembly, we have made such a tremendous move.

The constituent assembly.

Do you think that'll hurt us?

No.

Hurt him?

Nothing hurts us.

It doesn't hurt him.

I mean, he'll take the leadership on.

In other words, the way I would do that, God damn it, unless instead of us doing it.

That's all right.

Well, we can talk about that later.

There's one point.

You have two separate memos from me of the two separate lines to take.

He's expecting you to make a pretty general statement about how

You don't want to raise me a problem, all right?

Well, here you can do it in a general way without referring to the specifics of the negotiations, because Rogers doesn't know them.

But you can do that this evening or this afternoon when I bring him up to Camp David.

I've given you two memos.

One... Yeah, I know, I know, but I mean with the Rogers thing.

I don't know.

No.

In general, you can talk about it, but not about the details of the negotiation.

Yeah, well, on that, we want to be careful with him in the second.

If he knows what they are.

He knows.

What else?

That nuclear treaty.

Oh, that.

He isn't going to raise it, is he?

No.

I should enforce that you don't raise it.

Right.

On...

Unsolved, Mr. Preston, what you could get done and pull it in here once and for all is to say, why don't we settle now on the date?

I just screwed it up in New York by giving them November 21st.

Why don't you just say, uh, Krimiko is expecting you to make an offer of a date and he'll accept whatever date you say.

So why don't you say, we suggest we start on November 21st.

for the second round and so on, and then we announce it on October 16th from here.

Should I say that?

Yeah.

Will Roger be told?

Roger should generally be familiar with it, yes.

And then we've got it under control.

Okay.

I've read this carefully.

Now, that's the only thing that you can know now, and I'll be back when time to discuss David is.

NARA Description

On October 2, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:38 am to 9:43 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 790-004 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 790-4

Date: October 2, 1972
Time: 9:38 am - 9:43 am

Location: Oval Office

The President met with Henry A. Kissinger.

        Vietnam negotiations
            -Alexander M. Haig, Jr. recent meeting with Nguyen Van Thieu
                -Resignation
                -Acceptance of US proposal
                -Constitution
            -US proposal
                -Terms
                -Troop withdrawal
                -US-South Vietnamese agreement
                -Delay
                    -1972 election
                    -US military strength
                         -Compared to Summer 1973
                    -Timing for settlement
                -Constitutent assembly in Vietnam
                    -Thieu
                -Memoranda

        The President’s schedule
            -Forthcoming meeting with Andrei A. Gromyko
                -Memoranda to the President from Kissinger
                -Possible settlement
                -Vietnam negotiations
                     -Details
                          -William P. Rogers
                          -Camp David
                              -Kissinger’s memoranda
                -Nuclear treaty
                     -Rogers
                -Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty [SALT] II
                     -Timing
                          -Gromyko
                          -Rogers
                              -New York
                          -November 21, 1972
                          -Announcement
                              -October 16, 1972
                          -Rogers

         Kissinger's schedule

Kissinger left at 9:43 am.

Also recorded on October 2, 1972

105-010 8:05 AM · 59 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Republican Congressional leaders, including Leslie C. Arends, John B. Anderson, Samuel L. Devine, William J. ("Jack") Edwards, H. Allen Smith, John J. Rhodes, Barber B. Conable, Jr., Frank T. Bow, John W. Byrnes, Charls E. Walker, Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger, John D. Ehrlichman, William E. Timmons, Ronald L. Ziegler, James E. Smith, Richard K. Cook, Kenneth R. Cole, Jr., and William L. Gifford, met in the Cabinet Room of the White House at an unknown time between 8:05 am and 9:34 am.
790-001 8:12 AM · 20 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 8:12 am and 8:15 am.
790-002 8:15 AM · 15 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, John D. Ehrlichman, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 8:15 am to 8:33 am.
790-003 9:35 AM · 43 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:35 am and 9:38 am.
790-005 9:43 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:43 am and 9:51 am.
790-006 9:51 AM · 15 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:51 am to 10:08 am.
790-007 10:08 AM · 1 hr 10 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Andrei A. Gromyko, Anatoliy F. Dobrynin, William P. Rogers, Henry A. Kissinger, Helmut ("Hal") Sonnenfeldt, Viktor M. Sukhodrev, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:08 am to 11:18 am.
790-019 11:19 AM · 14 sec — Stephen B. Bull and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:19 am and 11:20 am.

All 44 conversations from October 2, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 790-004, October 2, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/790-004 (accessed October 12, 2026).