Nixon, Kissinger & Rogers on US-Soviet relations and Jewish exit visas

So are they letting Lithuanians on?
Are they letting Estonians on?
Are Latvians and Ukrainians?
Hell no.
That's my point.
But the other point that I would make is that I think it's this.
If the trade agreement or the soldering or anything else is held hostage to exit visas, there is nothing that can serve the Jewish community in this country more badly in my opinion.
It can't be, you can't hold us, we in effect would say to the Russians that unless you, let me put it this way, unless you knock off the exit pieces, we will not trade with you.
The trade agreement is something that has been negotiated.
The Russians aren't giving us something in the trade agreement.
I mean, we're not giving the Russians something in the trade agreement.
We're getting something we want.
They're getting something they want.
So, if the point is that we've got to hold it up because of this, we're going to be giving up something, and I think if they are to look for it, the other point that should be made is this.
If we are going to influence the Russian government, if we're going to influence them,
We want action, not an issue here.
And the way to get action is to have it done in diplomatic channels where we say quietly,
They want to discuss it.
They want to discuss it.
That's what I told them.
The argument is easy today.
If it weren't for the political, if it weren't for the election, it wouldn't be a problem.
What they've done is, recently, within the last five or six days, they had a meeting until three o'clock in the morning.
All the Jewish organizations came out and said that we should not agree on a trade agreement, that the Serbs should not represent the most great nation until there was some
Now, this is just a sort of a hand-holding operation.
And as soon as we announce the trade agreement, if they follow their plans, which they've announced, they'll announce it.
So I think all I can do is to try to indicate, as best I can, the arguments that you just made.
What do you think?
I think...
one minority who are holding the foreign policy of this country, and so for co-religionists, for non-American citizens.
But that is an argument you can make.
I think that if they want to help their people in the Soviet Union, they have to take the heat off of the Soviets.
The case has now been registered.
Nothing will happen under the trade agreement until next year.
The most paper nations, they won't be submitted to the Congress to make
We have administrative discretion about every credit we extend under the export-import thing.
All the trade agreement does is create a framework, and therefore we have much better opportunities to do it in a low-key way now.
The Soviets have already been said that neither the trade ministry nor the foreign ministry knew about these exit visas.
They could find administrative reasons why they stopped treating the visa as another ministry if that is true.
But after all, they feel like it shoots out every year without making too much buzz about it.
So if these Jewish organizations, now that they have registered their case, could not push it so hard to give us a chance to work with what they've already accomplished, so that way you can keep letting people say, we can work now with what you've done for us, but for God's sake.
I think, Bill, you might say, we have made
We have made progress.
We're going to make more.
We consider it vital.
Very important.
But the question is, what is the best way to do it?
You think, some of them may think, that the way to make progress is to lay down the government for the Russians.
You think that that would be counterproductive, that would lead to closing the door.
Most of them because they think we're going to win.
All right, fine, they get on the other side, and they're not going to defeat us.
And if they do, they're going to be on the outside looking in.
Well, you don't say that.
One thing that's going to be learned, I don't think it's unsafe.
Some people suggest maybe we shouldn't have a trade agreement, not because of the Jewish vote.
Hell with it.
As far as I'm concerned, we're paying no price for the Jewish vote.
Not one thing.
Not a damn thing.
Well, I want to say that the other day when I met with E-Man,
Thank you for watching!
I'm having lunch with him, and I'm going to eat quite cold turkey with him, too.
If you could say something, when you talk about Japan and China, say, look, we recognize the dangers there.
And if these two should ever unite on a basis, on a racial basis, we will take the appropriate action.
That will buy us a few weeks.
Good, good.
Let me want to say that, but I might lose.
The other point is, I think on Vietnam, we've already laid the foundation.
I mean, I anticipate we're totally relaxed.
They'll pass that off to us.
I'm going to indicate this evening what I didn't indicate.
I'm going to indicate that if this thing goes after the election, it's going to be a big one.
It will be a direct one in the war.
And I'm going to use the mandate.
I will tell them what you're going to do.
They know I'm going over this weekend.
It's our last offer.
You mean it.
They didn't take your warning seriously in Vietnam when I was in Moscow.
And you acted.
And you just want them to know.
That will get Dale on that right back.
Good.
I'll say that.
You're going to the limit of what...
There's nothing you want to say about security or the rest.
No, that's a pretty good thing.
And MDFR, you've got that all worked out.
That's all worked out.
The only trouble is, the trouble is every time the State Department has it so screwed up now, we may have to assert ourselves.
I mean, it was a simple thing.
It was all agreed to.
It is agreed to.
It is agreed to.
The only trouble is, invoking that message, that note which we drafted, the Soviet note to us around, they've blown it into, they've found more loopholes than they always do.
But there's no reason for you to bother with it.
You may have to assert yourself vis-à-vis the bureaucracy in the next two weeks.
I think they're going to take a great deal of heat on it, but I think that what's got to be understood here is that the American Jewish community
I can't postpone the trade agreement.
You won't be any better off in November.
The trade agreement is lend-lease.
You can still hold up credits.
I don't know what we're going to do about it.
What are Jackson's suggestions?
I think we should fight every amendment.
Jackson sent it to the Senate.
And if one of them passes...
And if one of them passes, all right.
All right, fine.
Do we want to start getting behind one of them?
We'll get the help.
We'll get free.
Because the Jewish community will mount that thing.
But it's mostly, it's a self-serving exercise by the Jewish community.
Well, and also, I mean, they're being used by the goddamn Democrats who have always been with them.
And it just shows you how stupid they can be.
I don't know what could be done.
I remember a base was supposed to work on it.
But he couldn't work on these leaders.
They were safe.
They didn't come down here.
Even our own, our great-grandparents, they liked you like a lot of people.
But I told them, I didn't give them.
You've been a master for me.
Mr. President, if they had an issue, if the Democrats had an issue, because they're desperately looking for anything now.
I mean, on the We Deal, for example, here's a billion dollars We Deal.
of the farmers are looking for the price of wheat, corn, soybeans, and they're lying.
That's what makes the farm those.
I know those farmers.
Exactly.
I'm sure it's a damn discouraging.
I wish someone once would get a hold of the American Jewish community and make them, got them, and be, frankly, reasonable.
I have no problems with the Israelis.
This morning on the Today Show, they had a Harvard guy, David Landau, who had written a book attacking me.
And he was holding forth about how vicious the theory of linkage is.
Then these same guys turn around and say, and want to link wheat prices to Jewish exit visas.
We should have been covered.
Joe Kraft had an article.
We should have written a harder bargain with the Soviets.
We get the Soviets out of the Middle East.
We get their total acquiescence in bombing Jesus out of North Vietnam.
What more could we have done?
It's a total dishonesty.
But after the election, they had no place to go.
We may not lose so much because I feel in my bones that we may come through with Vietnam.
And if we do, then we'll wash out everything.
We may get an agreement in principle on Vietnam.
One thing we cannot do, Henry, I was thinking about the bombing.
We can't stop the bombing down to the 20th parallel unless we have an agreement in principle on P.O.W.
Oh, yes.
That has to be part of it.
Oh, yes.
Because otherwise, as long as they have no agreement on P.O.W., we've got to bomb those bastards.
No, no, there'd be an agreement in principle, including DOW.
Oh, no, otherwise we can't do it.
You see my point.
Now, a number of things we have to decide before I go over there next time.
One is... You're leaving Saturday?
Well, I should leave Friday, but I'm moving into Saturday because Haig may have to stay over next time.
One is...
Yeah, that's fine.
That's fine.
Provided.
But if you go to Saigon, Henry, it's got to be your assignment.
I know.
You go to Saigon.
Now, what do we do if these guys say they want me in Hanoi?
Which is what they said at the last meeting.
Well, you see, the trouble is...
I don't think then, we can't say that the mountain labor produced a mouse.
I can go to Saigon only if we are, if I had practically agreed with Lee that time.
On Hanoi, the reason I think they want me so badly, I don't think any one of them can sign the goddamn document.
I think they want all the implications.
If the purpose is to make a deal, I do it.
If it's my judgment that we can settle it.
I mean, very, very hard.
It has to be the first thing.
Oh, I agree.
They've got to be so close, because it would be a terrible, it would be quite a blow to go there and come back empty-handed.
Well, you see, then I would think, Mr. President, if that's the plan, what I should do is go to Saigon, Hanoi, Saigon, and back.
Otherwise, it will come to Saigon.
Saigon first, always.
Yeah, go to Saigon.
We've got to play.
six months after the election, if we're still bombing and mining and public opinion and so forth, so be it, let it turn.
I have determined that I am not going to sit here and preside over 55,000 American dead for a feat.
I've got them around the building.
I think it's the best that I can do.
As I read that, I tell you relax.
I've come to the same.
I also think, I also.
We are really in a position where we might well be advised to deliberately filibuster this thing and then go talk after the election.
You have your mandate then.
There's no election hanging over it.
Say, all right, what do you want to do?
Lay down the old momentum.
They don't do anything.
Then kick them in the ass.
I'd like to do it before.
The argument against it is that your basic advantage is right.
We have no treasures that we can't handle.
worry is the negative argument is that right now we've got the clock running on that November 7th after the election they can always drag it out another month and another month because there's no one event secondly our forces are going to decline because the budget is such that we'll have to pull out 98 B-52s or get extra funding in the new countries which is going to be a problem so
What we can do after the election is to clobber them for two or three months and then go for a settlement early in February.
But we should do it now.
I don't know.
But we should.
I don't see how we can help it.
And I'll bring them right to, oh, what time do you want to write them?
I'll get that for them.
I'll leave it for them to get that for 45.
Bye.
See you at five.
Bye.
We'll have a talk for an hour then.
What time is it then?
Seven.
Good.
Bye.
We'll stay overnight.

Nixon, Kissinger & Rogers on US-Soviet relations and Jewish exit visas

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on October 2, 1972

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