Nixon, Timmons & Ehrlichman on Congressional relations and Water bill veto

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Presently, Japanese very much, you know, this big hole in the earth.

Well, we've got it.

I saw that.

It's a big facility here in Europe.

We've been at it.

Fire around over there.

Oh, yeah.

We're just trying to make it possible to do it.

Right.

Keep it as cool as possible on that.

Right.

Yeah, right.

Don't fight.

Yes, Congressman, we're doing that.

And we'll give you a picture in a second.

Here in the Oval Office, just sign it.

I'm not going to go over the signing of the agreements.

That's below what I should do.

The trade agreement's not big, but I'll have a picture with them after they sign it here, and then Rogers and Peterson will read it out here in the testimony.

That's what we're going to send it to them.

Yeah.

Okay.

Attorney.

Well, we've come a day, I think, for a week.

Yes, sir.

We have a problem on the debt spending bill.

As you know, the Senate rejected the spending limit features.

The House would kind of like to fight and try to keep the spending limit.

Johnny Burns and Wilbur Mills, that would probably...

force a conference, a new conference, to break up in disagreement.

It could either keep them here several days longer as they try to resolve it, or could defeat the whole debt limit.

And what are they?

You could call them back before or after election.

The crunch comes about the first, second week in November, I'm told, over Treasury.

Yeah, George says they get back until the 14th.

Uh...

Well, yeah, they would have to, but whether you could keep their attention is one of the problems.

We will get a lot of political mileage out of just banging away with every veto message.

We'll send a message or issue a statement.

I didn't, I didn't want to mention this before Vito and the other bill, but so that you'll know the politics of the thing.

I, the only reason that I delayed until midnight, I don't know the only reason, was very very good for the country.

As far as Vito and overriding his own marginage to say, he said, the president never needs to worry

about vetoing a popular bill that is overwritten.

Because then we will see the issue.

They're going to get their goddamned name on it.

Now I've got another scheme hard to deal with, and I'd like to see this discussed with my man of highest confidence, Jim George, not to be thought of not being elected for the election.

This water bill, as patterned with the veto, will require, of course, an increase in taxes.

I think there's a way to make that very effective in Congress.

I think we should ask the Congress to maybe call that alarm tax, call it the clean water tax.

You get my point?

Just for this one purpose.

That's a way to stick the baskets that will say clean water tax so that everybody,

I don't think it should be done before the election, no.

Because I don't want to even talk about tax increase now.

I know when you do pass a veto and say, well, the president's going to examine this and he's going to do everything he can to withhold funds.

Well, you know, we had a briefing at midnight last night.

And I didn't know, but I just saw the news summary.

Well, it didn't get in there, so.

And what we said there was, tonight, the Senate killed the spending limit.

Acting on the President's instructions, therefore, we delivered to the Senate the President's veto of the water bill.

The issue here is not clean water versus dirty water.

The issue here is higher taxes versus lower taxes.

Now, that will, I hope, begin to seep into the atmosphere here today as it's moving underwires and there's some headcounts at the very most.

But Bill managed to maneuver things so that they got the spending

looked like a result.

Several senators on the floor last night apologized for voting for that bill the first time.

They said they didn't realize what was in it until they read your veto statement.

I thought that was perhaps of all the disgraceful actions of the Senate, but only 12 senators voted to sustain it.

It shows that those assholes have no responsibility whatever.

Unbelievable.

To Senator Scott's credit, he stood up for once and took on Muskie in a debate and said, who's going to pay for this?

You're more rich in the future.

I appreciate that he was one of the few that had the guts.

All right, let's come back to the other thing.

What about your point?

Let me put it this way.

Is it to our interest to keep them in session?

Get them out.

All right, get them out.

So, okay.

Use the $250,000 as an issue.

We've got the issue.

There's another maneuver that will come at you after they go, I've got what the instructions I gave you about cut personnel on one issue anyway.

Well, that's the point.

We've put together quite a brief that goes this way.

Both houses have

acknowledged affirmatively, by affirmative votes, the 250 as a proper level of expenditure.

Both of them, in colloquy and in committee reports, have acknowledged the person's inherent cover to cut.

Whip over.

Therefore, the president is going to now act.

And between now and the new term, we're going to begin this way.

They've got some things that are...

People want you to go along with it.

Right.

Personnel cut.

Substantial cut.

That's along the lines we talked the other day.

If you want them out, then that's fine.

I understand.

It's only a matter of time.

I guess about four.

I just didn't know what I had to be here to get this silly telephone call.

Have they found Boggs?

No, sir.

I heard this.

I figured that was a fake story.

where I'm standing, so you get those signals now and again up in that country, and all those other places have those things.

And so, like what you're doing, John, there's no way this is going to exist.

Well, every hour that goes by, I think the chances diminish, you know, freeze.

Well, I hope that the energy's in the water, you know.

Oh, it'd freeze in ten minutes.

Yeah.

I know.

There's 43 air temperatures there, which is bad for Alaskan.

It would be pretty cruel on there this time of year.

So it's theoretically at least possible they could survive.

The Bush pilot knows his business.

Why do you know how to survive if they're down?

But I think the chances diminish as time runs on.

And the chances of finding it diminish.

So it would be a, you know, it would be a hiatus kind of a thing.

Did you tell President Mrs. Smith would be making a phone call?

No, Scott's leaving at 1 o'clock, so he's asked Margaret Smith and Mike Mansell to make a traditional call.

Well, okay, Margaret hasn't been in any place.

Where the hell is she now?

I think she doesn't like Colson, really.

It goes way back to New England politics.

Oh, Colson.

Colson is the one who ran after her in the primary.

That's it.

They went to school together.

And I think that's it.

She always accepts, and then somebody calls in later and regrets because of some legislative business.

Fine.

And Mike is curious, so I couldn't care less.

Boy, if we win the Senate, then we'll be able to have her as the chair of the Senate committee.

Unbelievable.

Javits.

Later.

Later is the name of the legislature.

Defense is important.

There's an amendment on anesthesia that Magnuson hung on there.

I don't know what.

Well, knock that off.

Well, if it can be done, let me call that.

I don't think there's anything we want to make a big public stand on right now.

It's an extension of the unemployment benefits in under 13 weeks or something.

In eight states.

Yeah.

Washington, you know, all that.

It's ironic that they wouldn't put the ceiling on if they increased

Your opponent showed up last night and voted.

Actually, it was there filming.

I had a little fun with the press on it, but they didn't make it up.

Well, we're going to bang this guy for coming all the way back here to catch one vote for the first time since Eagleton.

And what does he cast it for?

Higher taxes.

A vote for higher taxes?

Yes.

The one vote George McEverett's cast in the Senate in the last, you know, since the Democratic Convention...

John Erickson called me last night on the Senate floor with Mussie because he said, in effect, that it's not mandatory to spend his goods and that the expected president's discretion and so forth and so on, but you might file it away.

Yeah, we're losing it.

Let me say, let's use that as a purpose of acting.

Oh, sure.

Let's not use that as a purpose of letting them get off the hook of the tax increase.

Right?

Yeah, the problem here is even though it is discretionary, it's contract authority.

And the printer, as John said, that will come in from the Innocent Validates, from all the special, because murders are going to be murders.

What else is left out there?

Why don't we have some more vetoes, Michael?

Well, any time you're ready.

You don't know that they're getting out.

Yeah, we haven't wanted to do it until we were gone.

But starting tomorrow, why, we can, you know, we can stay tomorrow.

Tomorrow's Thursday.

Well, we might stay on tomorrow.

It makes us a little bit shorter.

I told the press last night that you were going to be told what year it should happen.

You did?

Yeah.

Well, let's do it tomorrow.

Let's get that one out of the way.

Then I'd do the other one.

I'd save the other one and do it about Monday.

I'll be in the yard until Tuesday so that we've got another story.

Fair enough.

What's that other one?

Well, it's a sub-security.

That's not Tuesday.

We may be able to do several if you want to mask it a little bit.

Well, I'm not so sure.

I wouldn't want to do labor unions other than Social Security.

I just think that new labor unions are way too modern.

All right.

Good luck.

Well, Sam, I think that's enough.

Nothing to caution us.

All right.

See, I'm not going to push.

I'm not going to push.

5 to 11 o'clock.

All right, sir.

There you go.

Get up and leave.

All right, sir.

Robert, you're...

I hear you on the other side, sir.

Just don't take it.

All right, sir.

5 to 11 o'clock.

Go ahead, sir.

Yes, sir.

Possibly you just...

Sorry.

Senator...

I don't know about that.

Where should I put you?

All right, sir.

We're at the television meeting this afternoon.

We're going to bring up the 2-3 to continue for you.

That would be fine.

That would be a half hour.

Yes, sir.

We'll turn it in.

Say that right.

Nixon, Timmons & Ehrlichman on Congressional relations and Water bill veto

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on October 18, 1972

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